Jimquisition: Xbox One and the Death of Ownership

[Razorback0z]

Spot on Jim. The concept of purchase and ownership is at stake and if history is any guide, enough of the market will bend over and take it to make MS a tidy profit.

 

[Baresark]

I like this game. It's the waiting game that is fun. It's like watching your annoying neighbor build something wrong. He wants to build his own two car garage, but he has never built anything before. You offer him help but he pushes away your attempts to be neighborly, for he doesn't need you and despises the idea of help from someone like you because he is smart and capable enough on his own. So, you watch and wait for it fall on his cars when they are parked in there. It's perverse fun, waiting for someone to fail. So, I'll keep watching and waiting. I'll watch them flounder about when release comes. I'll watch them scratch their heads and wonder why the garage fell on their new cars. Then I'll watch them back pedal. It'll be fantastic fun.

Or, that might not happen to them at all. Perhaps the system will sell well, it'll fly off the shelf. The latest greatest widget always does, regardless of facts about it (look at iPhones). Then I'll still get to have a bit of perverse fun. I'll get to watch the consumer flounder and flop about. I'll get to watch them scratch their heads and wonder why their new $500 system doesn't do the things they thought it did. And I'll watch them back pedal. They will be the ones who will swear up and down that they didn't buy that black box, they bought another one that promised them more than this one is giving.

Either way, I'll have some fun. If you tell people a ship will sink, one way or another, but they still get on it. It's hard to have sympathy. And in my book, both the passenger and the captain have been told.

 

[timboo_drow]

-snip

First of all, any kind of exposure from your part can be considered promotion. I don't follow you outside of the escapist, but you do seem to have quite a sizable audience that watches your reviews.
The reason I called you a hypocrite, and yes I'm aware of its meaning, is because for the past few weeks all you rave about is how bad Microsoft, EA, Sony et al are screwing us gamers. The way I see it, since you are a game reviewer after all and not a consumer advocate, is that you seem to bite the same hand that feeds you, making a show out of it and being proud of it. In my opinion the best kind of defense against these terrible business practices is ignoring them and moving on to different, less terrible things. Provided of course you want them to stop.
But maybe you are right, I should wait until it's out and you have your way with it before criticizing you.

I suppose Martin Luther King should have stopped supporting racism so much and gone on to be a farmer instead.

 

[ThinkerT]

First of all, any kind of exposure from your part can be considered promotion. I don't follow you outside of the escapist, but you do seem to have quite a sizable audience that watches your reviews.
The reason I called you a hypocrite, and yes I'm aware of its meaning, is because for the past few weeks all you rave about is how bad Microsoft, EA, Sony et al are screwing us gamers. The way I see it, since you are a game reviewer after all and not a consumer advocate, is that you seem to bite the same hand that feeds you, making a show out of it and being proud of it. In my opinion the best kind of defense against these terrible business practices is ignoring them and moving on to different, less terrible things. Provided of course you want them to stop.
But maybe you are right, I should wait until it's out and you have your way with it before criticizing you. Some negative exposure might do the trick. Maybe.

First, exposure doesn't equal promotion, except in a very general sense of making people aware that it exists. No legitimate reviewer in any field refuses to review something because they don't want to give it any "promotion".

Second, why can't he be both a game reviewer AND a consumer advocate? I don't see how those two are mutually exclusive. There are many journalists out there that do objective journalism and write editorials as well. There's no reason that a person can't editorialize on the failings and shortcomings of a company or industry while at the same time reviewing things about that company or industry. Where you should have the problem isn't in trying to do both, it's if that person obviously lets their personal feelings about the company's actions affect the reviews of their product and doesn't give an honest critique. If Jim does that, then you have every right to call him out.

And lastly, ignoring something doesn't make it go away, especially when that something is one of the most powerful and dominant companies in their field. In that case, silence implies consent more often than it does disagreement. And people will just go to other places for their content. Which is more effective - covering it and having an audience for your criticisms of it, or ignoring it and having people get their info somewhere else?

 

[ThinkerT]

The point is this shit is all old news. The PC gamers have been eating it and liking it for years. So why when microsoft does it are they suddenly the devil?

Microsoft CAN and WILL get away with this, because the PC Gamers have proven that they don't give a shit. They'll take the DRM and so will the console gamers.

...

You're talking minor details that don't matter. Monthly check-up instead of daily? What's the difference.

As I said above, PC Gamers have proven that gamers will take this style of DRM and still be happy.
If Steam had flopped, then Xbox One wouldn't have this shit today. So thank you, Steam supporters, for "ruining" the console experience.

The details aren't minor and they do matter. As is usually the case, the devil is in the details.

Saying that Steam is like what MS is proposing is like saying a filet mignon is like a hamburger. After all, they're both food made from cows, so everything else is a minor detail, right? But those "minor" details make all of the difference to food lovers.

The same is true here. Among those "minor" details:

- Monthly vs daily: Big detail to those with extended internet outages, taking your machine on trips where there's no internet, dial-up users, etc. Any of those can be done much more easily with monthly checks than with daily.

- Cost: There's a trade-off with digital ownership for the DRM and lack of used media in cost. Games have much bigger discounts and more rapid price reductions on PC than on consoles. For example, I can, right now, go pre-order a PC copy of Batman: Arkham Origins for $37 at GMG. Find me one place where I can do that for Xbox or PS. There's no reason to assume right now that this will change with this upcoming console generation.

- Backwards compatibility and availability: Again, a trade-off for the limitations. Steam provides MUCH more than just current games. Xbox One won't.

The bottom line is, saying that the differences in things like "DRM" are minor and don't matter is just hogwash, lazy and usually self-serving. Everything, including the details and trade-offs provided, has to be taken into consideration.

 

[ThreeName]

The incredible smugness during that final pun was obviously just too much to hide. Well done.

 

[babinro]

People Like Jim Sterling and Yahtzee should stick to their guns and not support Xbox One in the next generation.
Only do shows and reviews for the WiiU and possibly the PS4 (if they feel that console is acceptable enough in its practices).

 

[Jimothy Sterling]

-snip

First of all, any kind of exposure from your part can be considered promotion. I don't follow you outside of the escapist, but you do seem to have quite a sizable audience that watches your reviews.
The reason I called you a hypocrite, and yes I'm aware of its meaning, is because for the past few weeks all you rave about is how bad Microsoft, EA, Sony et al are screwing us gamers. The way I see it, since you are a game reviewer after all and not a consumer advocate, is that you seem to bite the same hand that feeds you, making a show out of it and being proud of it. In my opinion the best kind of defense against these terrible business practices is ignoring them and moving on to different, less terrible things. Provided of course you want them to stop.
But maybe you are right, I should wait until it's out and you have your way with it before criticizing you. Some negative exposure might do the trick. Maybe. I really doubt it though.

But surely the fact I *do* bite the hand that feeds me is better than me playing nice with it to get review copies. Fact is, I say shit like this, at the risk of my other job, and yes I do so proudly. I don't see it as a conflict. In fact, one episode explicitly is about loving games as art and hating them as a business. Jimquisition attacks the business, as a reviewer I discuss the art. And in games where business impacts the art, I let rip.

Frankly, my not covering the Xbox One could ONLY help Microsoft, giving it one less potentially bad review. People call for people like me to shut up and say nothing, but that's not helping ANYone.

As you said, you only watch Jimquisition, so you probably aren't qualified to tell me what I'm a hypocrite on as far as anything else I do goes. You're really assuming the worst and using it as a strawman which, in all fairness, is a logical fallacy.

 

[Alexandre Lemke]

-snip

First of all, any kind of exposure from your part can be considered promotion. I don't follow you outside of the escapist, but you do seem to have quite a sizable audience that watches your reviews.
The reason I called you a hypocrite, and yes I'm aware of its meaning, is because for the past few weeks all you rave about is how bad Microsoft, EA, Sony et al are screwing us gamers. The way I see it, since you are a game reviewer after all and not a consumer advocate, is that you seem to bite the same hand that feeds you, making a show out of it and being proud of it. In my opinion the best kind of defense against these terrible business practices is ignoring them and moving on to different, less terrible things. Provided of course you want them to stop.
But maybe you are right, I should wait until it's out and you have your way with it before criticizing you. Some negative exposure might do the trick. Maybe. I really doubt it though.

But surely the fact I *do* bite the hand that feeds me is better than me playing nice with it to get review copies. Fact is, I say shit like this, at the risk of my other job, and yes I do so proudly. I don't see it as a conflict. In fact, one episode explicitly is about loving games as art and hating them as a business. Jimquisition attacks the business, as a reviewer I discuss the art. And in games where business impacts the art, I let rip.

Frankly, my not covering the Xbox One could ONLY help Microsoft, giving it one less potentially bad review. People call for people like me to shut up and say nothing, but that's not helping ANYone.

As you said, you only watch Jimquisition, so you probably aren't qualified to tell me what I'm a hypocrite on as far as anything else I do goes. You're really assuming the worst and using it as a strawman which, in all fairness, is a logical fallacy.

Sorry if I am going off rails here, but why don't you talk more about the WiiU. Isn't it super consumer friendly on all those issues that we are debating?

 

[Jimothy Sterling]

-snip

First of all, any kind of exposure from your part can be considered promotion. I don't follow you outside of the escapist, but you do seem to have quite a sizable audience that watches your reviews.
The reason I called you a hypocrite, and yes I'm aware of its meaning, is because for the past few weeks all you rave about is how bad Microsoft, EA, Sony et al are screwing us gamers. The way I see it, since you are a game reviewer after all and not a consumer advocate, is that you seem to bite the same hand that feeds you, making a show out of it and being proud of it. In my opinion the best kind of defense against these terrible business practices is ignoring them and moving on to different, less terrible things. Provided of course you want them to stop.
But maybe you are right, I should wait until it's out and you have your way with it before criticizing you. Some negative exposure might do the trick. Maybe. I really doubt it though.

But surely the fact I *do* bite the hand that feeds me is better than me playing nice with it to get review copies. Fact is, I say shit like this, at the risk of my other job, and yes I do so proudly. I don't see it as a conflict. In fact, one episode explicitly is about loving games as art and hating them as a business. Jimquisition attacks the business, as a reviewer I discuss the art. And in games where business impacts the art, I let rip.

Frankly, my not covering the Xbox One could ONLY help Microsoft, giving it one less potentially bad review. People call for people like me to shut up and say nothing, but that's not helping ANYone.

As you said, you only watch Jimquisition, so you probably aren't qualified to tell me what I'm a hypocrite on as far as anything else I do goes. You're really assuming the worst and using it as a strawman which, in all fairness, is a logical fallacy.

Sorry if I am going off rails here, but why don't you talk more about the WiiU. Isn't it super consumer friendly on all those issues that we are debating?

Because the Wii U's position in the market is weird right now. I'm waiting to see where it positions itself when the dust has settled. Maybe it'll be clear as soon as the end of this week.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

What's the deal with the piano player with creepy robotic hands? And when is Jim going to get rid of that horrible shiny backdrop?

 

[DoPo]

What's the deal with the piano player with creepy robotic hands?

It's from a trailer (or the intro?) of Deus Ex: Human Revolution - later on there was a guy with a metallic hand tossing a ball at a kid, it's from the same in-game commercial. It's from a company supplying cybernetic prosthetics.

Anyway, as far as I see I'm the only one to mention this but Xbox One is not going to need 1.5 megabytes per second (MB/s) but 1.5 megabits (Mbps), which is equal to 192 kilobytes per second (8 bit = 1 byte). Sorry, compsci here, I was obliged to mention it. Other than that, thank god for Jim!

 

[Amir Kondori]

-snip

First of all, any kind of exposure from your part can be considered promotion. I don't follow you outside of the escapist, but you do seem to have quite a sizable audience that watches your reviews.
The reason I called you a hypocrite, and yes I'm aware of its meaning, is because for the past few weeks all you rave about is how bad Microsoft, EA, Sony et al are screwing us gamers. The way I see it, since you are a game reviewer after all and not a consumer advocate, is that you seem to bite the same hand that feeds you, making a show out of it and being proud of it. In my opinion the best kind of defense against these terrible business practices is ignoring them and moving on to different, less terrible things. Provided of course you want them to stop.
But maybe you are right, I should wait until it's out and you have your way with it before criticizing you. Some negative exposure might do the trick. Maybe. I really doubt it though.

I am sorry but you are either willfully misrepresenting facts here to try and make a point, which is what I strongly suspect, or you are just misunderstanding what it means to be a critic.

Are you seriously implying that if Jim reviews the Xbone he is "promoting it"? What if he gives it a bad review and tears it to shreds? Is he still "promoting it"? A critic's job is to dissect what ever he is a critic of. To point out its good points and bad points. To try and explain what it means in the context of the time it is released and what other products it is released with.

You are trying to make the point that if Roger Ebert talks about how much he hates B movie slashers and then reviews a B movie slasher he is a hypocrite, no matter what kind of review he gives it. That is frankly asinine. I don't mean to be insulting, but it is clearly just not true.

But I think you know that and I think you are just a big fan of Microsoft, you are excited about the Xbox One, you feel threatened by all the negative press and so you are lashing out.

 

[AWAR]

Spoiler

First of all, any kind of exposure from your part can be considered promotion. I don't follow you outside of the escapist, but you do seem to have quite a sizable audience that watches your reviews.
The reason I called you a hypocrite, and yes I'm aware of its meaning, is because for the past few weeks all you rave about is how bad Microsoft, EA, Sony et al are screwing us gamers. The way I see it, since you are a game reviewer after all and not a consumer advocate, is that you seem to bite the same hand that feeds you, making a show out of it and being proud of it. In my opinion the best kind of defense against these terrible business practices is ignoring them and moving on to different, less terrible things. Provided of course you want them to stop.
But maybe you are right, I should wait until it's out and you have your way with it before criticizing you. Some negative exposure might do the trick. Maybe.

First, exposure doesn't equal promotion, except in a very general sense of making people aware that it exists. No legitimate reviewer in any field refuses to review something because they don't want to give it any "promotion".

Second, why can't he be both a game reviewer AND a consumer advocate? I don't see how those two are mutually exclusive. There are many journalists out there that do objective journalism and write editorials as well. There's no reason that a person can't editorialize on the failings and shortcomings of a company or industry while at the same time reviewing things about that company or industry. Where you should have the problem isn't in trying to do both, it's if that person obviously lets their personal feelings about the company's actions affect the reviews of their product and doesn't give an honest critique. If Jim does that, then you have every right to call him out.

And lastly, ignoring something doesn't make it go away, especially when that something is one of the most powerful and dominant companies in their field. In that case, silence implies consent more often than it does disagreement. And people will just go to other places for their content. Which is more effective - covering it and having an audience for your criticisms of it, or ignoring it and having people get their info somewhere else?

Most of the responses I got have a touch of fatalism I believe. What is really scary to me is not the ridiculous always online DRM spying bullshit, but the assumption that we the gamers are all going to buy Microsoft's trinkets anyhow.
Let's also never forget that we are talking about video games here. I really do believe in consumer rights but I know that the consumer speaks better with his wallet than with his mouth.
My main gripe on this issue is that I really can't see the use of whining about these stuff if it's already predetermined that we are going to deal with it anyhow, whether we like it or not. There is a choice and Microsoft said it themselves, rather cynically but they did anyway, that the kinect can be turned off. In other words, yes there are privacy and consumer issues but no one is forcing you to buy the thing and deal with all the crap in the first place!
And if people actually do buy the Xbone in the end on their own volition, doesn't that entail that they willingly trade off some of their privacy for the sake of the entertainment provided by the console?

 

[Yuuki]

"Oh well...there's always the Wii U?"

No Jim, there's always the PC

 

[Aardvaarkman]

"Oh well...there's always the Wii U?"

No Jim, there's always the PC

A PC running Microsoft Windows, I presume?

One of the weirdest things about these thread is the number of people who essentially say: "Screw Microsoft, I'm going back to a Windows PC!"

Note, I am not accusing you in particular of this hypocrisy, just observing a general trend. If Microsoft is willing to do this on the Xbone, what's to stop them doing it on Windows? Another interesting thing is the naïvety of people saying that the Xbone won't sell, just because of some negative reviews. Back in reality, people will buy this in droves. Never under-esitmate the power of a teenager to convince their parents to buy new toys. I mean, what are they going to do once the Xbone and PS4 are the standard models for sale? Buy an old PS3 or Xbox 360? Not going to happen.

If people are actually serious about reducing Microsoft and other companies' strongholds, that requires serious commitment - like learning Linux and swearing off all non-open-source software. I really don't think that's likely to occur on a large enough scale to have any significant impact.

 

[Trishbot]

I can play my NES from 1986 TODAY.

10 years from now, when the Xbox One's servers go down, and the games can no longer "authenticate" online, what happens to my game library? It all becomes useless.

Because I never "owned" them. I merely was granted "permission" to play them. And they can deny that position when it suits them.

Sorry, but I like OWNING the product I buy. I can still play my original Mario and Zelda games on the original hardware without asking daddy Nintendo for permission. Microsoft can screw off if they think they can tell the consumer how, when, and where they'll be "allowed" to play their games.

 

[Alexandre Lemke]

-snip

First of all, any kind of exposure from your part can be considered promotion. I don't follow you outside of the escapist, but you do seem to have quite a sizable audience that watches your reviews.
The reason I called you a hypocrite, and yes I'm aware of its meaning, is because for the past few weeks all you rave about is how bad Microsoft, EA, Sony et al are screwing us gamers. The way I see it, since you are a game reviewer after all and not a consumer advocate, is that you seem to bite the same hand that feeds you, making a show out of it and being proud of it. In my opinion the best kind of defense against these terrible business practices is ignoring them and moving on to different, less terrible things. Provided of course you want them to stop.
But maybe you are right, I should wait until it's out and you have your way with it before criticizing you. Some negative exposure might do the trick. Maybe. I really doubt it though.

But surely the fact I *do* bite the hand that feeds me is better than me playing nice with it to get review copies. Fact is, I say shit like this, at the risk of my other job, and yes I do so proudly. I don't see it as a conflict. In fact, one episode explicitly is about loving games as art and hating them as a business. Jimquisition attacks the business, as a reviewer I discuss the art. And in games where business impacts the art, I let rip.

Frankly, my not covering the Xbox One could ONLY help Microsoft, giving it one less potentially bad review. People call for people like me to shut up and say nothing, but that's not helping ANYone.

As you said, you only watch Jimquisition, so you probably aren't qualified to tell me what I'm a hypocrite on as far as anything else I do goes. You're really assuming the worst and using it as a strawman which, in all fairness, is a logical fallacy.

Sorry if I am going off rails here, but why don't you talk more about the WiiU. Isn't it super consumer friendly on all those issues that we are debating?

Because the Wii U's position in the market is weird right now. I'm waiting to see where it positions itself when the dust has settled. Maybe it'll be clear as soon as the end of this week.

Thanks for answering. Hope to see your views soon.

WiiU is my backup plan if Sony screws up. Never going to buy XBox One. PC is always the last resort, of course.

 

[immortalfrieza]

I'm sorry but how many people take their xbox on vacation? We have Ipads and portable devices for that.
How many people are still on dialup?

Do people on dialup benefit from downloading 5-10% of the game they bought in a store? (as is with Valve Games)

You're scrambling for reasons.

The only one here scrambling for reasons here is you. Personally, I go to visit my Grandmother (who doesn't have internet) about 5-10 times a year for at least 3-5 days at a time, and I bring at least 1 of my consoles with me. If my 360 or my PS3 shut down after 24 hours I'd be stuck with just my handhelds after the first day, and I don't have anywhere near enough handheld games that I haven't already played to death for that to be feasible, and very few of them are anywhere near as good or last anywhere near as long as console games anyway. That's just me, now think about the people who's jobs or whatever other reason require them to travel ALL THE TIME, if they weren't able to bring their consoles with them they'd probably rarely ever get a chance to play them at all.

Personally, aside from the above I'm hardly going to be effected by this at all, I oppose what Microsoft is doing largely on principle alone, but if it did effect me I'd be even more pissed off. Microsoft may have the law behind them with this, but there are some things you just DO NOT DO, some lines that should never be crossed, some things that are just plain wrong, and the crap that Microsoft is doing with the Xbox One is among those things.

Name me one game you can buy on the Xbox One right now?
You can't.

You're comparing the prices of a current gen system, a system which allows for USED games (as opposed to steam) to a next gen system that isn't even out yet.

How it's done now is a pretty good indicator of how it will be done later. If it's cheaper on the PC now it'll probably be cheaper on the PC later. We can't see the future so all we CAN do is guess at the prices, but that doesn't mean doing so is wrong.

I don't care about backwards compatibility. I don't have time to play all the new games I want to play let alone replaying old games that came out years ago. I'd rather pay 500 instead of 600 for a console if it means I wont get to replay games that I've already played.

You don't care about backwards compatibility, fine, but there are PLENTY OF PEOPLE WHO DO!!! If you don't care about it you shouldn't be having an opinion on it. That's like someone who's never smoked in their lives telling people who do that it's easy to quit. You have no idea what you're talking about and shouldn't say anything.

When you base your opinion on fact rather than speculation you can let me know.

Of course! Why bother actually listening to what Thinker's saying, much less admitting that what he's saying is right when you can just dismiss it out of hand. After all, how can you lose an argument if you just ignore what the other person said and don't ever admit that you're wrong no matter how pathetically obvious it is that you are? [/sarcasm]

Get over yourself and actually consider the other side for once.

 

[Gamegodtre]

-snip

First of all, any kind of exposure from your part can be considered promotion. I don't follow you outside of the escapist, but you do seem to have quite a sizable audience that watches your reviews.
The reason I called you a hypocrite, and yes I'm aware of its meaning, is because for the past few weeks all you rave about is how bad Microsoft, EA, Sony et al are screwing us gamers. The way I see it, since you are a game reviewer after all and not a consumer advocate, is that you seem to bite the same hand that feeds you, making a show out of it and being proud of it. In my opinion the best kind of defense against these terrible business practices is ignoring them and moving on to different, less terrible things. Provided of course you want them to stop.
But maybe you are right, I should wait until it's out and you have your way with it before criticizing you. Some negative exposure might do the trick. Maybe. I really doubt it though.

But surely the fact I *do* bite the hand that feeds me is better than me playing nice with it to get review copies. Fact is, I say shit like this, at the risk of my other job, and yes I do so proudly. I don't see it as a conflict. In fact, one episode explicitly is about loving games as art and hating them as a business. Jimquisition attacks the business, as a reviewer I discuss the art. And in games where business impacts the art, I let rip.

Frankly, my not covering the Xbox One could ONLY help Microsoft, giving it one less potentially bad review. People call for people like me to shut up and say nothing, but that's not helping ANYone.

As you said, you only watch Jimquisition, so you probably aren't qualified to tell me what I'm a hypocrite on as far as anything else I do goes. You're really assuming the worst and using it as a strawman which, in all fairness, is a logical fallacy.

Sorry if I am going off rails here, but why don't you talk more about the WiiU. Isn't it super consumer friendly on all those issues that we are debating?

Because the Wii U's position in the market is weird right now. I'm waiting to see where it positions itself when the dust has settled. Maybe it'll be clear as soon as the end of this week.

My feel is that the only reason the Wii U is in this state is due to it not having this fuck you attitude towards the consumers where the publishers can block used games or make money off of them, and that scares the hell out of me, since i love the way Nintendo treats its fans i am hoping that they can get some more games and love from people