Jimquisition: Xbox One No DRM Emergency Special!

Yuuki

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It says "stream not found" when I try to load the video. Was the thread created while the video was still being uploaded, or is there a genuine error with the video?

Got me really excited, this is going to be sooooo embarrassing for MS and I suspect you're going to tear them another one :D

edit: Video is up and working now. Yeah, I guess it's a positive thing and gamers win in the end. Can't really complain about that.

My thoughts about this, copied from the other thread:

I'm very confused at the moment.

Confused as to whether MS planned this whole thing from the beginning as a publicity stunt (riding on the "no such thing as bad publicity" chestnut) OR whether they were genuinely behind this whole thing and then had a change of heart after seeing people's feedback.

On one hand, the hosts and devs who enthusiastically talked about XBox One's "features" looked COMPLETELY into it, they looked like they truly believed in it deep down that this was the way to go, that gamers would thank MS for these features down the road. It's hard to believe that MS had planned on hitting the reverse gear from the start, because the devs spoke like they didn't even have a shadow of a doubt. You could see it on their faces and hear it in their words, they were standing behind it with resolve.

On the other hand, literally EVERY SINGLE NEGATIVE ASPECT of the XBox One (except for the price, but who knows they might cut that down too at this rate) is being reversed. All in one swoop. That's where I start thinking that they planned this whole thing from the beginning, it looks way too easy and way too convenient to have pulled such a thing off so easily.

Either way Microsoft are still colossally thick idiots. Every single MS employee who preached things about the XBox One during the unveil and E3 is going to have jokes and memes made about them for a long time. Whether they already knew or not, it's utterly embarrassing...nothing changes that part.



Also I'm looking forward to future interviews with MS and how the interviewers will be silently laughing under their breath as MS try to answer the same endlessly-asked questions again and again:
1) "Why did you even think this would be positively received in the first place?"
2) "Why did you have a change of heart, do you believe first impressions have caused lasting damage?"
3) "Does this all come off as terribly embarrassing for your company and your employees, especially the presenters?"

(to so many who asked, yes it's a microphone on the right guy's face)
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Man, they back-peddled quicker than an Elder Scrolls archer :D

Still not buying one though.

Not unless all my favourite things happen.
 

Andy Shandy

Fucked if I know
Jun 7, 2010
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Exactly my thoughts, Jim.

I'm delighted that they've backtracked for whatever the reason they chose to do so, and may now actually buy an Xbox One, but because of this I will definitely be wary of Microsoft in the future.
 

Zulnam

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Feb 22, 2010
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Very well put, Jim; forgive, but don't forget.

Seeing as how the PS4 seemed to be doing alright (although let's be honest here, we all remember the 'mneh' feeling we got after the first reveal; it really got this far because of MS), it would've been a bad thing for Microsoft to screw everything up and give them a monopoly over the console market.

I am glad we have two options now, but I am still somewhat disappointed by both.
 

Legion

Were it so easy
Oct 2, 2008
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I liked the intro, very funny indeed. I expect suitable poetry from you and Yahtzee on this next week. It is far too good to miss.

I still don't want one.
 

Gizmo1990

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Oct 19, 2010
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I agree that it is good that they have done a 180 but I will still not buy one. Like Jim, I will not forget what they tried to do. It is to late to take it back.

Anyway even without the DRM and used games stuff it still comes with big brother kinect. So I will stick with my PC this gen. Maybe get a PS4 after some time has passed.
 

Freyar

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May 9, 2008
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Unfortunately with Microsoft's habit of changing their console after release (dashboard and advertising)I don't think this decision will stay. I won't be buying an Xbox One simply because of this threat. I'll stick with a PS4 this generation, but I am a bit happier to see them actually changing their policies as a result. In order to get me back, they'll have to prove that they can be consumer friendly for awhile and rebuild a track record they've destroyed over the past few years and ultimately dropped a nuke on at E3.
 

Bvenged

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WOooooooOOooooOOooOo!

Now if they can prove to me how XBL Gold will be valuable this time 'round instead of a subscription service to video adverts & early CoD maps I don't care about, and that kinect can me POWERED off,

I'd be happy enough to buy One80.
 

Salieri82

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To mangle Winston Churchill: You can always count on Microsoft to do the right thing, after they've tried everything else.
 

Callate

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I'm glad. In part because I was getting angry enough to start writing letters to the editor in about four months to say, "Hey, people who still read newspapers, don't buy your game-playing kids an XBox One for Christmas, here's why."

Yes, seriously.

Microsoft has made the smart move here, but I think they may still find it hard to make up for lost ground. In part because people like me were more than willing to evangelize against the world Microsoft saw for the future and thought was its to claim, but don't feel quite the same pressure to laud Microsoft to the heavens for grudgingly doing what it should have done in the first place.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Of course there's also the possibility that they planned this all from the start, that they'd announce horrible policies, "listen" to the outcry, and then pretend to change based on "customer feedback"
 

IamLEAM1983

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Aug 22, 2011
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I won't buy one because I'll be damned if a quick change of heart will be enough to make me forget - but this *is* absolutely wonderful news. If only this spells the end of Microsoft's recent policy of shafting its own userbase and telling them "Like it, you fucking monkeys, IT'S THE FUTURE!", then I'll remain absolutely jubilant over this.

As, you know, Windows 8 pretty much did exactly that.
 

Trishbot

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Well, Microsoft is still a bit too late (pre-ordered PS4, $100 less, better hardware, upgradable hard drive, etc.), but this IS a good thing.

Granted, I'm not going to THANK them for this. You don't say thank you to someone for NOT kicking you in the balls when they wanted to.
 

GundamSentinel

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Aug 23, 2009
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Still not getting one (to be fair, never planned to), but yeah, good news. Both because of consumer power and because it means healthy competition in the console market. Still, Microsoft has been twisting and turning and blatantly lying for quite a while now, so my best wishes to people still seriously considering an Xbox One.
 

wooty

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Aug 1, 2009
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Wow, you got this episode out quick Jimmy boy.

They've still made this decision too late for me, but I was always set on a PS4 anyway. Microsoft lost my vote in the console market waaaay before the One80 was even in drawn up in blueprints.
 
Mar 30, 2010
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Well, this is good news. Ok, one step in the right direction is only an improvement if you hadn't previously taken five in the wrong direction, but at least Microsoft are listening. As you point out Jim, they're more likely listening to developers and investors rather than the gaming community, but they at least deserve some applause for this if for no other reason than if their reversal of policy regains none of the goodwill they've recently lost then they may begin to U-turn on the U-turn.

So well done Microsoft - you have finally done what you should have been doing from the beginning.

>genuine nod of appreciation accompanied with sarcastic slow clapping<
 

Mumorpuger

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Apr 8, 2009
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What they need to do now (if they want to have the future that they want) is to make digital-only download games $10-$15 cheaper than physical discs. Imagine the ripple effect that would have.

Also, XBox 180 seems like a hilarious alternative over XBone now.
 

Revolutionary

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May 30, 2009
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Salieri82 said:
To mangle Winston Churchill: You can always count on Microsoft to do the right thing, after they've tried everything else.
As a history enthusiast I found that most amusing.
Also OT: Thanks god for Jim.
 

IllumInaTIma

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Feb 6, 2012
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Jim said it right "Forgive, but not forget". I'm really worried that now everyone will just forget about all that DRM bullshit and gleefuly jump back to MS train. There should be some consequences for their actions.
 

shadowstriker86

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Yuuki said:
the guy in grey, what the hell is that on his cheek? is that a piece of captain crunch cereal? was joe yelling at the guy so much food was flying out of his mouth?
 

bojac6

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Well, my worry is now which company will be the first to reverse the policies and institute DRM?

As a more important question, since I seem to be way behind on game trailers, what was the game with stopping time during an explosion or whatever? That looked interesting.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Why should we forgive when they have in no way, shape or form apologized? They pulled back DRM and Used Games policies because they felt the pressure. Nothing more. What they did was a start, but it's nowhere near sufficient enough to be called a good start.
 

Entitled

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Also a great new proof of the truth of the older "why complaining is more effective than boycotts" episode.

For everyone who was moaning about how people should just shut up on online forums and vote with their wallet, well, here is the result of not shutting up.
 

dragongit

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It's still not enough for me to want to get an Xbox ONe. It's still 100 bucks more and comes with a camera I dont' want. but good on Microsoft for actually hearing the outcry instead of shoving your fingers in your ears. though I have to wonder if this sets their production back at all seeing as now they have to remove shit from their console. Actually waht if that made it cheaper. This generation won't look so one sided anymore. though I am still for the PS4.
 

kyoodle

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I'm still not getting one. They have been forced into this reversal by over weeks worth of condemnation from every gaming website and few larger news outlets too. They're still miles behind Sony and Nintendo when it comes to respecting their customers.
 

mysecondlife

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Still not buying it. Damage is already done as they've shown their true 'controlling' color.

This is not action of kindness. It just took them this long that it would affect their sales.

shadowstriker86 said:
Yuuki said:
the guy in grey, what the hell is that on his cheek? is that a piece of captain crunch cereal? was joe yelling at the guy so much food was flying out of his mouth?
Microphone
 

ritchards

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bojac6 said:
As a more important question, since I seem to be way behind on game trailers, what was the game with stopping time during an explosion or whatever? That looked interesting.
Quantum Break.

OT: I'm still predicting that this was not planned, and they quickly patched code... which will break.
 

GAunderrated

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Freyar said:
Unfortunately with Microsoft's habit of changing their console after release (dashboard and advertising)I don't think this decision will stay. I won't be buying an Xbox One simply because of this threat. I'll stick with a PS4 this generation, but I am a bit happier to see them actually changing their policies as a result. In order to get me back, they'll have to prove that they can be consumer friendly for awhile and rebuild a track record they've destroyed over the past few years and ultimately dropped a nuke on at E3.
I agree it is unwise to trust microsoft due to their changes to the xbox 360 dashboard alone. Sure they might give a slight pass to the always on DRM stuff for now, but next year they will have a brand new strategy and name to try and force people back into it.

And once they have already invested in the Xbox one, people will be more willing to overlook getting abused like they do now with the xbox 360.
 

The Artificially Prolonged

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Big piece of humble pie for Microsoft. Thought I think the damage may be already done. It will take a lot to win back consumer good will now.
 

PatrickXD

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I'm really disappointed with the reversal of opinion. What made the Xbone interesting to me - the always online connectivity, family sharing and mandatory Kinect - has been somewhat put down. I was looking forward to what exactly 'cloud computing' can do, I was interested in more games adopting systems like Dark Souls and Demon's Souls. You know, integrating the single and multiplayer experience? Game developers can no longer guarantee that every user has access to the internet, which could have been an interesting point to develop from. Now, well, we'll never know.
And that's what hurts about this. What the Xbone was doing was unprecedented. Don't get me wrong, I know that doesn't mean good, inherently. It's just, and bear with me here, nobody has to buy the Xbox One. The PS4 was always an option, and a cheaper one at that. If you don't have an internet connection, you have the option of - no, not the xbox 360 - the PS4. It's there. It's a choice. A safe choice. It's not changing anything. The Xbone? Previously we didn't know if it would be a safe choice. We didn't know if it was what we wanted. It certainly wasn't a rich dark roast. And that's what we want, isn't it? We all want a rich dark roast. We all sing together that we know what we want and what we want is a rich dark roast.

The Xbone could have been a game changer. Microsoft has decided now to go where the money is, abandon it's backbone and chase after every ounce of hype and every last dollar. And now we will never know, at least not for another 8 years, if the Xbone's original system is in fact a great one.

For posterity, I wholly support being able to just, you know, give people discs.

EDIT: I just thought I'd point out something that really irks me about this whole Xbone situation, as I feel it represents the gaming industry and culture as a whole.
People complain, day in and day out, about the lack of change in games. The repetition of the exact same systems and stories from past generations of game. And yet, when Microsoft tried something new with a console, everyone cried 'What's wrong with the way things are? Can't everything just be the same? Everything is fine here, we don't need change!'.
Food for thought.
 

Crazy Zaul

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Holy Crap lol came out of a raid to find that the whole internet has exploded. Well this is better but probably still getting a PS4 cos of the price.
 

Mirrorknight

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Aw, isn't that nice. Still ain't getting one. The level of douchenozzlery (that's a word now) Microsoft has shown during this whole debacle has pretty much killed the slight chance that I would have gotten one.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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I love it. The console's still inferior to the PS4 despite its changed policies, but the apologists want everyone to give Microsoft an apology? HAHAHAHAHA!

Also:
Whoever made that is my hero. Angry Joe was totally right in that video, and I laughed when that asshat Major Nelson claimed that it wasn't easy and that Joe shouldn't speak unless he's an engineer himself.
 

Phrozenflame500

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Sweet baby Jesus, we did it. We managed to force a company to do something with mass complaining. And for something great and not just the ending to a video game. For the first time ever the internet actually did something good for once!
 

Freyar

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PatrickXD said:
The Xbone could have been a game changer. Microsoft has decided now to go where the money is, abandon it's backbone and chase after every ounce of hype and every last dollar. And now we will never know, at least not for another 8 years, if the Xbone's original system is in fact a great one.
The problem is that the implementation of each thing needs to be done at a per-game basis and must also do away with other "features" that are highly controversial. Always online doesn't work well enough, especially when the whole market is concerned. Microsoft jumped the gun and tried to do something that is probably well over twenty years too early.
 

geizr

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Yeah, I say it all the time, but I'm going to keep saying it:
[h4] A company hears and understands ONLY two sounds, the creak of your wallet opening and the slap of your wallet closing. All other sounds are noise to be ignored.[/h4]

Well, there were a lot of slaps. A HELL of a LOT of SLAPS! Someone in a position of power (likely Balmer, who, I would suspect, absolutely ripped through Don's ass like a berserk cuisinart on steroids) finally heard and understood the message. Honestly, folks, our wallets is really the only voice and power we have against these companies, but it is a SUBSTANTIAL power that should not be taken lightly. Companies want our money more than we do, and all we have to do to send them into shit-fits of kowtowing is to say "NO". That's it. Nothing more. No need for rage and screaming. Just say "NO". With so many people closing their wallets before the damn console even hit the market, Microsoft would have proven itself the ultimate in stupidity and arrogance to ignore such a deliberate and forceful message, "We ain't buying your shit!".

ADDENDUM: Still not buying it, though. Pissed me off just a bit too much for me to throw money at two-faced shit like this.
 
Dec 16, 2009
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to all the appologists who defended MS's anti-consumer policies...look what happens when we stick up for ourself. these companies need us, they need the customers. and look, you're still going to get your Xbone, no ones taking it away from you.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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CriticKitten said:
I love it. The console's still inferior to the PS4 despite its changed policies, but the apologists want everyone to give Microsoft an apology? HAHAHAHAHA!

Also:
http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1521089/
Whoever made that is my hero. Angry Joe was totally right in that video, and I laughed when that asshat Major Nelson claimed that it wasn't easy and that Joe shouldn't speak unless he's an engineer himself.
Joe is one of the few interviewers that actually grilled M$ employees about consumer concerns. He's completely vindicated now :)
 

hentropy

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Yeah strangely enough I think it was Jimmy Fallon. Not so much that one guy himself, but the fact that the pure anti-consumerism was starting to leak out into the mainstream media and everyone who looked at it thought it was BS. A video game system being openly mocked on late-night television might have been the final kick in the pants they needed to know it wasn't just boilerplate nerdrage from a vocal minority.
 

Riobux

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Honestly, this is the most tedious "console war" (as in, when two consoles battle out for audience favour) since Sega vs Nintendo (you know, with boring crap like "we do what Nintendon't"). Rather than Sony and Microsoft trying to sell different ideas, they're selling the same things to the same people. The only difference is Microsoft just did the equivalent of getting drunk before an important speech, and then later had to apologise for said speech. This entire thing is dull, tiresome and lame. There's absolutely nothing interesting new being thrown about, just the same tired things (complete with Sony doing personal attacks on Microsoft, the tired "look, we can do used games" getting to the point of flaunting). I think the snapping point was when Jim pretty much made me realise something: Sony is being applauded for doing the same thing it's always been doing. We're applauding not because of improvements, but rather throwing rocks at those who change (which I'll admit, the changes are all for the worst). I've yet to get an inclining that PS4 or the X-Box One will actually really improve upon what I already have, just with the games now being made for the PS4 and the X-Box One.

I may be alone in this, but just out of curiosity: Is anyone as bored and tired as I am with how PS4 and X-Bone One is being promoted? Or even just filled with apathy over this change?
 

thenumberthirteen

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Jim sure is fast getting these videos out. I run a bath, everything is normal, and when I'm finished Microsoft have pulled a 180 and there's already a video up.

This is definitely a step in the right direction. I was really worried the XBox would just crash and burn before, but now there's some hope. Though they are still on the back foot coming out of the gate as I bet there's a mad dash with programmers and devs to make changes to code, and Microsoft will have to run their PR in overdrive to make up for E3 before launch.

What does this mean for Sony though? Their job has just got tougher. While I don't agree 100% with the sentiment that their E3 presentation was just "doing the same" there is a grain of truth to it. They'll have to convince people that PS3 is the better console without focussing on DRM now. They have a PR head start so let's see if they capitalise on it.

I, for one, can't wait to see the interviews with Microsoft guys after this. Especially after some of them so passionately stuck by their DRM policies just a couple days ago.

Yuuki said:
Confused as to whether MS planned this whole thing from the beginning as a publicity stunt (riding on the "no such thing as bad publicity" chestnut) OR whether they were genuinely behind this whole thing and then had a change of heart after seeing people's feedback.
I HIGHLY doubt it was the former. Granted Microsoft marketers aren't infallible, but I refuse to believe they'd think the "New Coke" gambit would ever work. It never works. It's just an absurd plan making them look, at first, bad, and after the change, like indecisive idiots. They'll have seen the awful negative reactions from the gaming public, press, and probably investors, and then realised they had made a terrible error.
 

chozo_hybrid

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Jul 15, 2009
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Still not getting one, if it's this easy to remove, in a few years time, what's to stop them having a new agreement popup when you sign in and make you update the machine to have all the nasty stuff people didn't like installed.

They have shown their true colors and I will not trust them at all.
Yuuki said:
I love that, thank whoever made that. If it was you, thank you.
 

Something Amyss

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The Artificially Prolonged said:
Big piece of humble pie for Microsoft. Thought I think the damage may be already done. It will take a lot to win back consumer good will now.
Considering they were shooting themselves in the foot up to the eleventh hour, the damage really should be done.
 

Mikeyfell

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Jim, I think we should thank god for the "vocal minority of gamers" and Jimmy Fallon this time.
And thank god for you too.

Now... what about that Kinnect...
 

MichaelPalin

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People, people, this is the perfect time to force Valve (Steam) and EA (Origin) to do the same. You, journalists, take the telephone right now and ask those companies why we cannot sell and lend our disc-based games on PC!? And people, for Christ sake, stop buying from those companies until they remove DRM from disc-based games!
 

Jimothy Sterling

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I feel so smug that I can hardly contain it. I've been giggling my ass off this last half hour at the announcement.

The way they've pushed this out fast, especially this fast, shows that they're willing to change without much deliberation.
While it's obvious that they would come out better for doing this, they should've done it gradually, stating that they are taking the overwhelming negative feedback into consideration, let it stew for a few weeks and THEN tell people at the top of the hype, that they've decided to listen to the consumers.

I never planned on buying the xbone and I'll likely not get the PS4 either, but this has hammered it in for me; I can't trust Microsoft.
There's no remorse, no admission, no careful deliberation(that we've seen) or any other basic fucking common ground that they've met us on and I'd sooner put my money on someone who sticks to DRM because they believe in it, than people who'll have a change of heart so quickly, just to please the crowd momentarily.

My bet is that they'll reverse this in the future. You can bet your ass that they'll be legally covered in whatever "Press Button to Accept" terms you'll see on the xbone, to do so.

Crash and burn Microsoft, crash and burn.

MichaelPalin said:
People, people, this is the perfect time to force Valve (Steam) and EA (Origin) to do the same. You, journalists, take the telephone right now and ask those companies why we cannot sell and lend our disc-based games on PC!? And people, for Christ sake, stop buying from those companies until they remove DRM from disc-based games!
Valve just announced that you will be able to lend people games through steam.
It's already possible, though in violation of their terms.
 

Imp_Emissary

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Wow. They did do it? I thought it was just a rumor.

Well, cool.

Sad for them to say it's too little too late. :p

Jim is right. They would have done it if it was up to them, and they could do it later if they really wanted too.

Thank God for you Jim.
 

Freyar

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Smilomaniac said:
There's no remorse, no admission, no careful deliberation(that we've seen) or any other basic fucking common ground that they've met us on and I'd sooner put my money on someone who sticks to DRM because they believe in it, than people who'll have a change of heart so quickly, just to please the crowd momentarily.

My bet is that they'll reverse this in the future. You can bet your ass that they'll be legally covered in whatever "Press Button to Accept" terms you'll see on the xbone, to do so.
Absolutely the massive RED FLAG that this news has.
 

gamegod25

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Entitled said:
Also a great new proof of the truth of the older "why complaining is more effective than boycotts" episode.

For everyone who was moaning about how people should just shut up on online forums and vote with their wallet, well, here is the result of not shutting up.
I'd say it was a combination of the two, gamers flipping them off at every chance with Sony only feeding the fire combined with the Xbone tanking in preorders while Sony's skyrocketed. I believe it was a one-two punch that pretty much forced their hands or face complete ruin.

This is still not going to change my mind about not getting one, but this is still a big victory for gamers and consumers rights. As Jim said we should never forget nor should we drop our guard, we still need to keep up the pressure if we want to keep them from trying to pull this shit again.

Be proud, be vigilant!
 

Wyvern65

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A nuanced response to joyous news, Mr. Sterling. That you wrote, shot, and uploaded it this quickly, and that it lived up to your usual standard in spite of all that, deserves kudos as well.

As for the DRM reversal, I'm still angry at MS. Maybe that will change. If I do break down somewhere down the road and buy a XBone, at least I won't be supporting policies I loathed.

*insert obligatory 'thank god for you' here*
 

Xman490

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Nice Kir-Bee shirt, Jim!

I'm still getting a PS4, though. Even though the DRM is erased, and even if the XbOne didn't hold onto Kinect for $100 more, none of their exclusives interest me very much. Also, the PS4 will have many more indie games, and the PS4 will have access to some PS3 games, and the PS4 has some bundles with discounts on Plus (albeit with either Killzone 4 or Battlefield 4).
 

Reyold

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As I said in another thread, color me surprised. Didn't think they'd ever do it, but they did.

Can't say I trust them, though. But then again, I don't have any plans for buying next-gen consoles anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter.
 

Yuuki

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thenumberthirteen said:
I HIGHLY doubt it was the former. Granted Microsoft marketers aren't infallible, but I refuse to believe they'd think the "New Coke" gambit would ever work. It never works. It's just an absurd plan making them look, at first, bad, and after the change, like indecisive idiots. They'll have seen the awful negative reactions from the gaming public, press, and probably investors, and then realised they had made a terrible error.
I read a very convincing argument from a friend on Facebook on why he thinks this was all part of the plan:

Markus Palm said:
This was planned, no doubt about it. No, that's not me being all "conspiracy theorist" - it's basic logic.

Take a company like Microsoft, a multi-billion dollar corporation. It's in their utmost interest to be at the top when it comes to the console race to acquire revenue. They spent years researching the market and their consumer base. These corporations don't make "mistakes", especially not in this magnitude (and if they do, they will do everything to silence the media). If they for whatever reason wanted to implement DRM, they wouldn't have announced that like a front-page thing - they would have been way more subtle about it explaining the pros before actually announcing their DRM plans.

I'm not saying I wasn't 'fooled', but in hindsight it's all very obvious. All this negativity will now create a contrast and make Microsoft and the Xbox One seem like a great choice. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a huge game-bundle for $599 or even a price-drop before launch to lure even more costumers to 'switch' or 'stay'.

I believe this strategy is for the mid-section, meaning gamers that will only really buy one console and never switch. The 'average' consumer. Any hardcore gamer will either go PC (realizing its benefits) or eventually acquire all 2 or 3 consoles.

In 1-2 months when the release is more imminent all that will be remembered is how Microsoft turned around and delivered exactly what gamers want - even though Sony did it first. (Not to mention, Microsoft has earned a lot of publicity from this. I know a few not-so-involved people who only really had a hunch that a PS4 was coming, although they could ramble the ins and outs of the Xbox One's policies.) I mean, just imagine all the viral videos, memes and posts that have flourished this past week - most of them have been entirely about the Xbox One.
What he's saying that it is essentially impossible for a company like Microsoft NOT to have noticed how most gamers (and the internet as a whole) loathed any form of DRM with a passion - so building the very thing they KNEW people loathed into the the next big console sounds like it was all done on purpose (in hindsight). As stated above, a multi-billion-dollar corporation that has access to endless statistics and keeps a watchful eye on the rest of the world doesn't simply make such an extremely obvious mistake of epic proportions. It makes no logical sense.
They have indeed gained a massive amount of publicity from it (watch the next few days) and some people are even convinced that Microsoft are the good guys now, they care for their consumers. The next week will be very interesting.

Most fucking aggravating thing of all is reading stuff like this around the internet: "Awesome! Now lets see what Sony have to offer".
Oh god, oh god...
 

MichaelPalin

New member
Oct 20, 2011
13
0
0
(answering #54)

Not good enough. It seems Valve saw the backlash and are preparing themselves for the potential splash. However, they wont move unless forced, unless people ask them en masse. Journalists need to do their job and put the heat on Valve and EA now and we gamers should start talking about it on the internet so the idea spreads as far as possible. No Steamworks requirement for PC disc-based games, period!
 

Freyar

Solar Empire General
May 9, 2008
214
0
0
Yuuki said:
What he's saying that it is essentially impossible for a company like Microsoft NOT to have noticed how most gamers loathed any form of DRM with a passion - so building the very thing they KNEW gamers loathed into the the next big console sounds like it was all done on purpose (in hindsight). They have indeed gained a massive amount of publicity from it (watch the next few days) and some people are even convinced that Microsoft are the good guys now, they care for their consumers. The next week will be very interesting.
This simply isn't the case. The swiftness these policies were reversed with shows that there isn't really any regard for their core customers until it starts showing up on broadcast television. They are not the good guys here and this is sadly taken as vindication for the Xbox One fanboys as much as people who were legitimately concerned about their consumer rights.
 

BernardoOne

New member
Jun 7, 2012
284
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0
PatrickXD said:
I'm really disappointed with the reversal of opinion. What made the Xbone interesting to me - the always online connectivity, family sharing and mandatory Kinect - has been somewhat put down. I was looking forward to what exactly 'cloud computing' can do, I was interested in more games adopting systems like Dark Souls and Demon's Souls. You know, integrating the single and multiplayer experience? Game developers can no longer guarantee that every user has access to the internet, which could have been an interesting point to develop from. Now, well, we'll never know.
And that's what hurts about this. What the Xbone was doing was unprecedented. Don't get me wrong, I know that doesn't mean good, inherently. It's just, and bear with me here, nobody has to buy the Xbox One. The PS4 was always an option, and a cheaper one at that. If you don't have an internet connection, you have the option of - no, not the xbox 360 - the PS4. It's there. It's a choice. A safe choice. It's not changing anything. The Xbone? Previously we didn't know if it would be a safe choice. We didn't know if it was what we wanted. It certainly wasn't a rich dark roast. And that's what we want, isn't it? We all want a rich dark roast. We all sing together that we know what we want and what we want is a rich dark roast.

The Xbone could have been a game changer. Microsoft has decided now to go where the money is, abandon it's backbone and chase after every ounce of hype and every last dollar. And now we will never know, at least not for another 8 years, if the Xbone's original system is in fact a great one.

For posterity, I wholly support being able to just, you know, give people discs.

EDIT: I just thought I'd point out something that really irks me about this whole Xbone situation, as I feel it represents the gaming industry and culture as a whole.
People complain, day in and day out, about the lack of change in games. The repetition of the exact same systems and stories from past generations of game. And yet, when Microsoft tried something new with a console, everyone cried 'What's wrong with the way things are? Can't everything just be the same? Everything is fine here, we don't need change!'.
Food for thought.
wut? Online games can be done without these restrictions. What you just said, made no sense at all.
 

SteewpidZombie

New member
Dec 31, 2010
545
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0
TIS THE SEASON TO BE TROLLY TROLLOLOLOLO LO LO LO LO, MICROSOFT IS FULL OF SHIT TROLOLOLOLO LO LO LO LO, STILL NOT BUYING THEIR SHITTY CONSOLE TROLLOLOLOLOL LO LO LO LO


(Sorry, but REALLY? Microsoft is just looking like morons at this point. If they will so quickly back-pedal and change their entire stance on DRM after only like a week after having preeched non-stop about DRM policies, then I am very skeptical about them and how they will continue to treat customers in the future).
 

BrownGaijin

New member
Jan 31, 2009
895
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0
First Xbox one, then Xbone, then Xbox done, now the Xbox one 80, this console has had its name changed (by the fans) more than Puff Daddy... I mean P. Diddy, I mean Diddy, I mean Puffy, I mean, Puff, I mean Sean Combs!

I guess it now comes down to price for me...

...

...

(troll face)

OT: While I'm sure we'll never truly know where the pressure came from, though we can all make some very viable guesses, I glad to see that this happened.

Oh yeah so I guess some music is in order...

 

Irradiated Tiger

New member
Feb 8, 2010
159
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0
Hot damn, Jim, you work faster than greased lightning.

I feel like Microsoft's move might have been too little too late. As Jim said, people aren't going to forget this. Let's also not forget that the Kinect still has to be on to run the console and indies are still getting shafted by the new XBLA.
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
8,687
0
0
Now if they could only get rid of the mandatory Kinect, I might consider buying one of these.
 

drschplatt

New member
Aug 18, 2010
46
0
0
I still am not sure how I feel about this. To me Microsoft assuming we'll be ok with this is like going on a date with Microsoft to a nice restaurant. About halfway through the meal, Microsoft stands up and asks us to bend over the table so they could ram us from behind. Horrified, we slap Microsoft in the face for getting fresh and leave the restaurant on the arm of the gentleman Sony instead. As we leave, Microsoft runs after us hat in hand begging our forgiveness for trying to hump us in the butt at the dinner table. Are we just now expected to tell Microsoft that its ok and then walk hand in hand back to the dinner table? Ok, they won't be trying to anally rape you at dinner any longer, this I suppose is a good thing, but what's going to stop them once you get in the car afterwords?

Trust is earned and in my mind, Microsoft took all the trust they had and chucked it out the window.
 

deckpunk

New member
Apr 5, 2011
91
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0
Mikeyfell said:
Now... what about that Kinnect...
My thoughts exactly! Get rid of that dumb device, but the way microsoft have been talking the 'xbone 180' is built with kinnect 2.0 in mind, but then again they said the same thing about their drm policies. Maybe if enough people complain some more they'll remove the completely useless camera and drop the price by 100 quid.
 

nevarran

New member
Apr 6, 2010
347
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0
Awesome. Enjoy some sharing with friends now, along with retail specific pre-order bonuses, crappy dlc and digital games at the same price as the retail copies...
Welcome to the same next-gen.
 

Mikeyfell

New member
Aug 24, 2010
2,784
0
0
deckpunk said:
Mikeyfell said:
Now... what about that Kinnect...
My thoughts exactly! Get rid of that dumb device, but the way microsoft have been talking the 'xbone 180' is built with kinnect 2.0 in mind, but then again they said the same thing about their drm policies. Maybe if enough people complain some more they'll remove the completely useless camera and drop the price by 100 quid.
They should drop the price 100 quid no matter what they do with the Kinnect,

Isn't 430 Pounds like 680 bucks?

Yeah, I know Microsoft is still bitter about the Revolutionary war, but still...


I still think Sony is going to win because there is a sizable demographic of "sane" people that don't want to put a camera in their living rooms.
 

DarkhoIlow

New member
Dec 31, 2009
2,531
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0
Well they sure caved in fast didn't they? Way to stick to your guns M$.

Overall the gamers win here, but as we all know this may be just temporary just to manage to get more units preordered.

Let the console war spark anew like a phoenix, yay...*sits back near his PC and grabs his popcorn.*
 

Griffolion

New member
Aug 18, 2009
2,207
0
0
Sorry, MS. Still getting the PS4. Regardless of what's gone on here, you've already proved too untrustworthy. Sony isn't exactly a saint, but they are better than you, and cheaper. You haven't got my business this generation.
 

Another

New member
Mar 19, 2008
416
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0
Still not getting one. As an analogy, if I find out dude was plotting to murder me and then they were like "nah, not today" it still doesn't mean that we are gonna be friends. Because he still thought about doing it in the first place.
 

MrHide-Patten

New member
Jun 10, 2009
1,309
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0
So a tiger can change it's stripes, but I'll still remember its a tiger that rips out innards and feasts on them. A little sad to not see Sony on top of the podium this gen, even though out of the big three they should get their just do's without coming in third place again. But stuff like the latest software update shows that they will find a way to do a massive cock up.

Captcha: Up and Away!
 

Saltyk

Sane among the insane.
Sep 12, 2010
16,755
0
0
PatrickXD said:
I'm really disappointed with the reversal of opinion. What made the Xbone interesting to me - the always online connectivity, family sharing and mandatory Kinect - has been somewhat put down. I was looking forward to what exactly 'cloud computing' can do, I was interested in more games adopting systems like Dark Souls and Demon's Souls. You know, integrating the single and multiplayer experience? Game developers can no longer guarantee that every user has access to the internet, which could have been an interesting point to develop from. Now, well, we'll never know.
And that's what hurts about this. What the Xbone was doing was unprecedented. Don't get me wrong, I know that doesn't mean good, inherently. It's just, and bear with me here, nobody has to buy the Xbox One. The PS4 was always an option, and a cheaper one at that. If you don't have an internet connection, you have the option of - no, not the xbox 360 - the PS4. It's there. It's a choice. A safe choice. It's not changing anything. The Xbone? Previously we didn't know if it would be a safe choice. We didn't know if it was what we wanted. It certainly wasn't a rich dark roast. And that's what we want, isn't it? We all want a rich dark roast. We all sing together that we know what we want and what we want is a rich dark roast.

The Xbone could have been a game changer. Microsoft has decided now to go where the money is, abandon it's backbone and chase after every ounce of hype and every last dollar. And now we will never know, at least not for another 8 years, if the Xbone's original system is in fact a great one.

For posterity, I wholly support being able to just, you know, give people discs.

EDIT: I just thought I'd point out something that really irks me about this whole Xbone situation, as I feel it represents the gaming industry and culture as a whole.
People complain, day in and day out, about the lack of change in games. The repetition of the exact same systems and stories from past generations of game. And yet, when Microsoft tried something new with a console, everyone cried 'What's wrong with the way things are? Can't everything just be the same? Everything is fine here, we don't need change!'.
Food for thought.
Dark Souls existed on the current consoles. Destiny looks to be doing the same thing and will be on PS4, as well. Nothing you just said requires always online. And PS4 supports the Cloud as well. You come off more like you're apologizing to Microsoft. Nothing they wanted to do required online at all times or DRM. There's nothing stopping this from happening.

I actually was interested in what the Cloud COULD do, and my console will probably be online 99.9% of the time, but that didn't make these policies okay. Making it mandatory, just forces me to do something I did because I wanted to. I should be the one who decides how to use my console. And what about people who don't have strong internet service either because it's not available or they don't want it (Both exist in force, even in the US)? Are they just out of luck for even single player experiences?

Change for the better is good. But what few good things Microsoft put forward were married to horrible policies. Now that those policies are dead, the good can flourish.

Anyway, I'll be enjoying my PS4 when it launches and seeing how Cloud gaming works on it. But I will also enjoy being allowed to play offline if I should want.

For the record, something like half of all 360's never connected to the internet. They didn't even look at their own numbers.
 

Fappy

\[T]/
May 1, 2020
12,010
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0
Country
United States
Kudos for throwing that video together after such short notice! It actually turned out quite well!

Still not getting an Xbox 180 until they offer exclusives I care about, drop the price point and drop the mandatory kinect.
 

Shamanic Rhythm

New member
Dec 6, 2009
1,653
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Riobux said:
I may be alone in this, but just out of curiosity: Is anyone as bored and tired as I am with how PS4 and X-Bone One is being promoted? Or even just filled with apathy over this change?
You're not alone. The Xbone DRM fiasco has conveniently distracted everyone from the fact that the only really major change made in the next generation is the move to x86. Beyond that, nothing but gimmicks like the share button. These new consoles are boring, expensive and will no doubt be furnished with another cycle of bland AAA titles that are little more than expensive tech demos.

They're basically in a race to be the least shit.
 

Evil Smurf

Admin of Catoholics Anonymous
Nov 11, 2011
11,597
0
0
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
inkheart_artist said:
Okay, Jim Sterling. Can we now take a look at how shitty the PS4 and the Xbox One (really the whole next gen of consoles) are now that they're on equal footing?
but they are not, the kinnect still spies on you, constantly. Also I want no adverts on Xbox live, or a way to block the ads and having a better price point. Better yet free multi player. If all of these things happen, they will be on equal footing.

But I'm going to upgrade my laptop with a SSD and give it more ram over the
course of this generation, that seems more sensible, not getting a console.Just to be clear, this was my response to another Xbone thread, so no low content warning for me thanks.
 

Jimothy Sterling

New member
Apr 18, 2011
5,976
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nevarran said:
Awesome. Enjoy some sharing with friends now, along with retail specific pre-order bonuses, crappy dlc and digital games at the same price as the retail copies...
Welcome to the same next-gen.
You mean like major publishers still try to pull on PC all-digital platforms?

Don't pretend companies would magically turn over a new leaf with the Xbox One.
 

Miyenne

New member
May 16, 2013
387
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0
Jim's right, it's a step in the right direction, giving us a reason to be hopeful. But we shouldn't hold our breaths.

I'm still sticking with my PC and maybe getting a PS4 down the line.

Everything else aside, I think I'm developing a crush on Jim. He's so adorable!

Captcha: blinded by science ... Uh.
 

redknightalex

Elusive Paragon
Aug 31, 2012
266
0
0
Jim, that opening was absolutely fantastic. I don't always laugh at your videos -- you bring up too many thought-provoking points for me to really laugh -- but this had me going back a few times to watch the opening before I even got to your main points. We need more emergency Jimquisitions like this. Kudos for making this so damn fast.

I'm not sure how many gamers this will sway into Microsoft's camp because the PR, and the acidic hatred they seem to have for consumers, makes this whole thing appear like a stunt. I'm not sure I believe this is a win for gamers, for, as you said, they may change it in the future, but it appears like "we won." However, it feels a lot like ME3's extended ending: we "won" but got something slightly less worse than the original. Some will also say that MS's PR nightmare is over when, in fact, they just renewed the debate all by themselves.

For me, MS has said too many anti-consumer "deal with it" bullshit that I don't trust them one bit. I would never buy this system from them because I don't trust them. Take away the Kinect and I may reconsider, although highly doubtful. Which isn't to say I trust Sony; they only feel more trust-worthy at this particular moment.

This is big, big news and MS got itself to the top of the gaming charts again except is it worth it? They go back on their word and we are to trust them now?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, then I'm a fucking moron.
 

Joel Soh

New member
Dec 17, 2010
50
0
0
redknightalex said:
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, then I'm a fucking moron.
I completely agree. I wonder how many people will jump onto the Xbox One now that they've removed the DRM (which could be put back in later). I don't trust them anymore, damage done. If they were for the consumer, those DRM policies wouldn't have been a thing in the first place.

Should make a poll.. Hmm....
 

jFr[e]ak93

New member
Apr 9, 2010
369
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0
What was the game with all the time freezing? I don't recognize it at all.

OT, I'm surprised and at the same time not surprised at this. For Microsoft to ignore this would have been suicide, but for them to hold to that much sudden change... it's suspicious to say the least...
 

Jimothy Sterling

New member
Apr 18, 2011
5,976
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MichaelPalin said:
(answering #54)

Not good enough. It seems Valve saw the backlash and are preparing themselves for the potential splash. However, they wont move unless forced, unless people ask them en masse. Journalists need to do their job and put the heat on Valve and EA now and we gamers should start talking about it on the internet so the idea spreads as far as possible. No Steamworks requirement for PC disc-based games, period!
Its called a quote button, you really should learn to use it..

And you are just funny.

"They need to let us lend games!"
"They are working on the system to do that."
"Not good enough!"

Whats more likely, though I doubt this will register, is that Valve saw the family share option Xbox was going to be rolling out with and thought it was awesome, so decided to incorporate it into their own platform.

Valve doesnt have to worry about backlash against other people, they provide a good service that they are always trying to make better. If they WERENT planning on implementing it they wouldnt be putting code into their beta clients to test it.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

New member
Sep 6, 2009
6,019
0
0
PatrickXD said:
I'm really disappointed with the reversal of opinion. What made the Xbone interesting to me - the always online connectivity, family sharing and mandatory Kinect - has been somewhat put down. I was looking forward to what exactly 'cloud computing' can do, I was interested in more games adopting systems like Dark Souls and Demon's Souls. You know, integrating the single and multiplayer experience? Game developers can no longer guarantee that every user has access to the internet, which could have been an interesting point to develop from. Now, well, we'll never know.
And that's what hurts about this. What the Xbone was doing was unprecedented. Don't get me wrong, I know that doesn't mean good, inherently. It's just, and bear with me here, nobody has to buy the Xbox One. The PS4 was always an option, and a cheaper one at that. If you don't have an internet connection, you have the option of - no, not the xbox 360 - the PS4. It's there. It's a choice. A safe choice. It's not changing anything. The Xbone? Previously we didn't know if it would be a safe choice. We didn't know if it was what we wanted. It certainly wasn't a rich dark roast. And that's what we want, isn't it? We all want a rich dark roast. We all sing together that we know what we want and what we want is a rich dark roast.

The Xbone could have been a game changer. Microsoft has decided now to go where the money is, abandon it's backbone and chase after every ounce of hype and every last dollar. And now we will never know, at least not for another 8 years, if the Xbone's original system is in fact a great one.

For posterity, I wholly support being able to just, you know, give people discs.

EDIT: I just thought I'd point out something that really irks me about this whole Xbone situation, as I feel it represents the gaming industry and culture as a whole.
People complain, day in and day out, about the lack of change in games. The repetition of the exact same systems and stories from past generations of game. And yet, when Microsoft tried something new with a console, everyone cried 'What's wrong with the way things are? Can't everything just be the same? Everything is fine here, we don't need change!'.
Food for thought.
What of countries without stellar internet need for the Online Connectivity? Suppose you live by yourself? Suppose you don't have a dedicated gaming room? MS isn't killing off the cloud gaming capabilities, Devs can still do that if they want to. A lot of people like single player and hate Multi, why should they have to suffer?

The Xbone might have changed the game, but look at all the legitimate complaints people have against it. Change isn't always good or for the best. That being said, people like variety in games, not the consoles to play them on.
 

Alex Koelmel

New member
Sep 7, 2010
3
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0
Guys, they're doing this SPECIFICALLY so they can just put it ALL BACK IN once you've bought the system!

Firstly, they said all the DRM restrictions were built into the hardware, that it was "integral" to the way it worked. Four days later......not only does the X1 not NEED the DRM to function, but it was so easy to remove that it only took FOUR DAYS TO DO IT.

Second, circling back around, not only will M$ put this shit back on later, but the fact that they didn't "stand their ground" on this means Microsoft as a company now has the reputation (due to living examples) of flat out changing directions at the last minute. As good as it is the DRM is out, it only means MS can backpedal on the backpedaling any moment, and can do this re-reversal on ANYTHING (not just DRM policies).

Do not be fooled.
 

Hazy

New member
Jun 29, 2008
7,423
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0
Microsoft? More like Damage Control-Soft!

Am I right people?
 

Charli

New member
Nov 23, 2008
3,445
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0
Dayum you work fast Sterling. You need a couple of extra pennies for your trouble, that was some epic dressing you magical Houdini man.

But seriously damn, now I'm wondering what Angry Joe's video is going to be (If it is NOT 20 minutes of him laughing on camera I might just be a little disappointed.)
 

DuelLadyS

New member
Aug 25, 2010
211
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0
So, quick question- will your games still need to download from the disc to the hard drive? Because I hated that the moment I read it, and I hope it's something that's flipped too.

Basically, what this does for me is move the Xbox One from "Not gonna happen" to "number three" on the New System List. I'm still getting Wii U first, and I intend to get PS4 and focus on it this time around. My 360 only got the attention it did because everybody I new had one, and games were cheap and easy to find. I'd like to reward Sony for not being dicks in the next run.

So, that said- put out some games I care about, guys- you wanna get me to pay up sooner? That's what it takes, nice and simple.
 

Cpu46

Gloria ex machina
Sep 21, 2009
1,604
0
0
Really? REALLY?! I JUST FINISHED MY LETTER TO MICROSOFT.



Well now at least I know that the Xbox One will be up for consideration when the grand list of exclusives starts growing. Still, looking forward to the deal sweetening that Microsoft will have to do to get all the disgruntled players back.
 

TheSapphireKnight

I hate Dire Wolves...
Dec 4, 2008
692
0
0
Well that's good news. However I will not be getting an Xbox One until a price drop. I am glad I won't have to say goodbye to Halo forever, perhaps just see you later.

Though at the same time I was kind of wishing the xbone would crash and burn so Halo could maybe get released from its console prison.
 

conmag9

New member
Aug 4, 2008
570
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0
WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH! Hold the phone people! We are clearly forgetting the vastly more important question here, aren't we? The glaring one, that absolutely must be answered before anything else be brought up?

Jim (thank God for him) doesn't go around wearing a suit at all times?!
 
Jun 23, 2008
613
0
0
Now, for our next trick, can we get Microsoft to patch up Windows 8? Specifically:

~ Remove the Microsoft Certification requirement (at least allow alternative markets) for Metro apps.
~ Cease monitoring user activity and sending it back to Microsoft (yes, they really do this.)
~ Fix the interface so that the desktop and the Metro use the same conventions when possible.

Please?

Until then, Yo-ho, yo-ho it's Windows 7 for me.

238U
 

ZephrC

Free Cascadia!
Mar 9, 2010
750
0
0
Honestly, and I know this isn't directly related to video games, but this is why I like Microsoft better than Apple. They're both evil to the core, but at least Microsoft is capable of recognizing when their evil is so bad it's seriously effecting their sales. Apple just glosses it over with some shiny design and an insufferable marketing campaign, which is why Microsoft consistently beats Apple even though everyone hates them.

I'm still leaning pretty heavily PS4 for this generation though.
 

Kinitawowi

New member
Nov 21, 2012
575
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0
Damn impressive turnaround time on this, Jim.

Let's be clear, this is still going to happen. Always online and no used and single activation codes are de rigeur in the PC market and they've had exactly the desired effect of killing that beast of many faces, the second hand industry.

The only problem is that Microsoft thought Sony were going to join them in doing it this time around. When Microsoft shot their load before E3, Sony just needed to say "nah" and they were free to point and laugh as Microsoft were totally caught with their pants down. Sony will do this too at some stage. And Microsoft will try again. Some lousy guesswork from Microsoft and some great poker faces from Sony mean that the can has successfully been kicked for another generation, but this is not the last we're seeing of this.

Still not planning on buying either, of course; I'll get a Wii U for Bayonetta 2, play FFXV on whatever my cousin buys and everything else will be on my new PC (as Uriel noted above though, I'd still like to see a proper fix for Windows 8). But for Microsoft to actually make this climbdown is still a huge thing that should be acknowledged.
 

Rebel_Raven

New member
Jul 24, 2011
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Still waiting on that whole kinect thing to go away, the hassels indies have in getting on XBL, and the plethora of other problems miring the Xbone to go away.

Still, it's nice the combination of Jimmy Fallon, the consumers, the competition, and no doubt EA caused the change in policy.
 

dakkster

New member
Aug 22, 2011
141
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0
PatrickXD said:
EDIT: I just thought I'd point out something that really irks me about this whole Xbone situation, as I feel it represents the gaming industry and culture as a whole.
People complain, day in and day out, about the lack of change in games. The repetition of the exact same systems and stories from past generations of game. And yet, when Microsoft tried something new with a console, everyone cried 'What's wrong with the way things are? Can't everything just be the same? Everything is fine here, we don't need change!'.
Food for thought.
I'm all for trying to change the game, but not in a million years when that entails that I get my game ownership taken away and a have a MANDATORY big brother device installed in my living room.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

New member
May 22, 2010
7,370
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hentropy said:
Yeah strangely enough I think it was Jimmy Fallon. Not so much that one guy himself, but the fact that the pure anti-consumerism was starting to leak out into the mainstream media and everyone who looked at it thought it was BS. A video game system being openly mocked on late-night television might have been the final kick in the pants they needed to know it wasn't just boilerplate nerdrage from a vocal minority.
This is why I've been saying for years that gamers are terrible consumers. If, say, the film industry had tried to do with Blu Ray what EA did with Project $10, let alone what Microsoft was trying to do with the Xbone[footnote]That just sounds so much better to me than "Xbox One." Whoever said it would have been an affectionate nickname if Microsoft hadn't screwed the pooch so bad was right.[/footnote], the entire world would have flipped its shit. The fact that it took a move this drastic for gamers to stand up is pretty pathetic, and what's worse is it was probably the way it spilled over into the mainstream that caused the actual change.
 

Amaury_games

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Oct 13, 2010
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Yuuki said:
It says "stream not found" when I try to load the video. Was the thread created while the video was still being uploaded, or is there a genuine error with the video?

Got me really excited, this is going to be sooooo embarrassing for MS and I suspect you're going to tear them another one :D

edit: Video is up and working now. Yeah, I guess it's a positive thing and gamers win in the end. Can't really complain about that.

My thoughts about this, copied from the other thread:

I'm very confused at the moment.

Confused as to whether MS planned this whole thing from the beginning as a publicity stunt (riding on the "no such thing as bad publicity" chestnut) OR whether they were genuinely behind this whole thing and then had a change of heart after seeing people's feedback.

On one hand, the hosts and devs who enthusiastically talked about XBox One's "features" looked COMPLETELY into it, they looked like they truly believed in it deep down that this was the way to go, that gamers would thank MS for these features down the road. It's hard to believe that MS had planned on hitting the reverse gear from the start, because the devs spoke like they didn't even have a shadow of a doubt. You could see it on their faces and hear it in their words, they were standing behind it with resolve.

On the other hand, literally EVERY SINGLE NEGATIVE ASPECT of the XBox One (except for the price, but who knows they might cut that down too at this rate) is being reversed. All in one swoop. That's where I start thinking that they planned this whole thing from the beginning, it looks way too easy and way too convenient to have pulled such a thing off so easily.

Either way Microsoft are still colossally thick idiots. Every single MS employee who preached things about the XBox One during the unveil and E3 is going to have jokes and memes made about them for a long time. Whether they already knew or not, it's utterly embarrassing...nothing changes that part.



Also I'm looking forward to future interviews with MS and how the interviewers will be silently laughing under their breath as MS try to answer the same endlessly-asked questions again and again:
1) "Why did you even think this would be positively received in the first place?"
2) "Why did you have a change of heart, do you believe first impressions have caused lasting damage?"
3) "Does this all come off as terribly embarrassing for your company and your employees, especially the presenters?"

I'm amazed that your first thought was so much alike my first thought! o_O
Already made a comment about it, so I won't post it again, but damn, it's interesting to see this happen for the first time with me! XD
 

JarinArenos

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I'm still standing by my "not buying either new console" decision, but it's nice to see that Microsoft isn't totally out of touch with reality. I was starting to wonder.

Also, someone please please PLEASE tell me what that trailer is playing behind Jim's video? The one with the time-frozen explosion?
 

Seracen

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Sep 20, 2009
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Hah, one of the best damn episodes, just due to how crazy and fast paced it was.

I agree, however, that I will not forget what was done here. Just as I have sworn off buying EA and Capcom games unless used or on sale (due to their policies), I will not buy XBONE until they've proven to me that they won't go back on their word again.

To wit, that means a solid year of waiting, playing PS4 in the meanwhile (assuming I buy next gen at launch at all). By then, they'll have worked out the kinks and gotten a decent stable of games (and had plenty of opportunity to screw the consumer over again with some form of BS).
 

Innegativeion

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Feb 18, 2011
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Daystar Clarion said:
Man, they back-peddled quicker than an Elder Scrolls archer :D

Still not buying one though.

Not unless all my favourite things happen.
Same, in fact I never planned on buying one. Simply because I got barely any use out of my 360; Sony has the best exclusives as far as my personal experience is concerned.

At any rate, at least now I won't try to convince people not to buy one anymore, or not as vehemently as before. I still don't like the kinect-required bullshit, refusal to allow indies to self-publish, higher price tag, and overwhelming focus on multimedia rather than video games.

But I suppose that's another can of worms entirely.
 

chiefohara

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Gah... i was already all decided for buying PS4 at launch

now this changes things a tiny bit.

Instead of buying a PS4 off the bat, ill have to wait 6 months now to see how the console wars fade and hear feedback from people.

Chances are I'll probably still get a PS4 though.

Seriously microsoft, i was a loyal 360 fan, and an actual convert from the PS2.... to quote AVGN ...."WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?"
 

Triality

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Thank you Jim for taking the time out of your day to do an emergency episode on this important topic.

I was happily going to deny Microsoft my business for XBox products for life for this, but it's as you say, forgive, don't forget.
 

Jamous

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Daystar Clarion said:
Man, they back-peddled quicker than an Elder Scrolls archer :D

Still not buying one though.

Not unless all my favourite things happen.
That about sums it up for me. Too little too late with too little other incentives. Like, you know, exclusive titles that I actually want. Also, not going to lie, Sony had me crushed beneath their boot the instant KH3 was announced. I don't care how long it takes. The fact that it's actually definitely happening is enough.
 

Wyvern65

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JarinArenos said:
Also, someone please please PLEASE tell me what that trailer is playing behind Jim's video? The one with the time-frozen explosion?
It's Remedy's "Quantum Break." The big gimmick with it is it ties into a new TV show, and supposedly "how you play the game impacts the show, and the show informs how you play the game."

It looks like an interesting experiment. It's a XBone exclusive, due out in 2014, so that's why Jim had it in the video.
 

klaynexas3

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Dec 30, 2009
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PatrickXD said:
They are not removing any said "cloud," and so the gaming will still be there, you just need an internet connection, just like before with the shitty DRM, only now people have the choice to buy an Xbox One and not need an internet connection. They can choose a single player experience that is truly single player. However, that choice does not get rid of the possibility for Demon's Souls like single player/multiplayer experiences, as I will remind you, both of those games were done without the need of the DRM. If a company truly wants to make an experience like that in a game, they have the ability to do so, that is not taken away from that company.

None of what Microsoft boasted(besides game sharing) that was actually a good thing about the system is gone. It still runs on its "cloud," companies can still make games that require this said "cloud" and thus making you play online anyway, it just means that for those not playing those specific games, they won't have to phone home every 24 hours. The Xbox One can still be a "game changer" if you please, it just won't be a controlling game changer, and it has lost none of its potential, but gained much more credibility.

I would like to ask, what do you think the 24 hour check in policy would have done to further gaming? How about the tying of games to your specific account, making it to where any trading, selling, or sharing was all under the control of Microsoft? Because(besides the digital game sharing, which was kind of cool, but steam will possibly be implementing later anyway, so someone will get it done) those are the only things that the Xbox One is losing.

And as for your food for thought, we cry for changes in the games themselves. The console becoming more restrictive doesn't change the games at all. As I said earlier, what would checking in once every 24 hours add to the gaming experience, or tightening the grip on what you are allowed to do with your game?

I'm sorry, but the features that the Xbox One has lost were nothing but a hindrance to gamers, not progression.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Jun 17, 2009
14,334
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Meh, I would much rather have seen the Xbox Done crash and burn. Still not buying one BTW. Still I guess I got to applaud them for finally get their collective head out of their collective ass.
 

duck-man

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Mar 17, 2009
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It's a pity they gave up on the digital license trading. Don't get me wrong, losing the daily logins is worth it, but, they had Some good ideas.
Without the 24hour login someone could presumably download a game, put their xbox offline, login to another xbox, trade a game, keep playing said game on their offline xbox.
Doesn't sound like the biggest issue to me, but, maybe I'm missing something.
And now there's no way they could do the family member circle sharing thing, right?

Edit: Thank God for Jim
 

Simalacrum

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Apr 17, 2008
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And, all of a sudden, the console wars are all up in the air once again. :p

While I do think the PR has still taken a substantial hit for Microsoft, its no longer a case of "this is going to hurt them on a permanent basis for the entire generation", and more of a "this'll hurt them in the early part of the generation but everyone will forget it in a few years"; much like the PS3 at the start of the last generation.

I'm glad that they've done this. Now I don't have to rage against the Xbox One on an ideological level, as well as just a simple "I prefer the PS4's games" level. Heck I might even consider getting the Xbox One over the PS4 now, provided they cut the price and seriously press ahead over the PS4 with games.
 

Grape_Bullion

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Its probably been said, but this is honestly too little too late. As Jim said, their idea of control and punishment has already been established. They want nothing more than to implement their original Xbox One ideals on their consumers when they can, it'll probably be done within the first year of the launch. You're a fool to think this won't happen, and when it does you'll have no one to blame but yourself. You can be smart about this. There are other, much better options to the Xbox One, no matter how badly they want you to think they've changed.
 

thewatergamer

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Here is what I will say regarding this:
First Good on yah microsoft for reversing your BS and listening to your customers,

unfortunately it will take ALOT more than that to earn back my trust, and my money,
still not buying an Xbone as you could easily pull another Xbox One80 on us in the future
 

Silly Hats

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Dec 26, 2012
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So they just threw a Pheonix Down in the fight. Kind of glad that they decided on the right action, I feel like they should have foreseen such a reaction well before it happened ether than trying to convince everything that their technology is amazing. Still won't buy one and I can't imagine how embarrassed Microsoft is feeling right now.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Houseman said:
Of course there's also the possibility that they planned this all from the start, that they'd announce horrible policies, "listen" to the outcry, and then pretend to change based on "customer feedback"
which is a dumb approach to marketing.
It relies on customers being idiots with no ability to do a little projection on where MS will go here. The Tech and infrastructure is already in place, finding a BS reason to use them will not be that difficult - and by then its to late if you already bought the thing.



So the question is:

Are you an idiot and buy the Xbone?




This approach to marketign is akin to coca cola saying: "Our new product makes you an addict, will kill you in 5 weeks and we reserve the right to have it take your first borns soul. No we cant just remove that it took so much work to make it happen! What are you thinking? If you cannot handle this new lifestyle choice then we have propduct that suits your needs! Classic cola! That just makes you fat!"

And then saying:
"After listening to consumers feedback, which we are grateful for, we have decided to remove the Addiction and death effect from the new cola...."
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Apparently you still need an internet connection for the first time set-up of the system? What the hell is with that garbage? What, it can't work right out of the box?
 

mbarker

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Nov 12, 2008
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This reminds me of the saying "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me". DRM gone? how long does it take them to bring DRM back. I'm not going to be yanked around by this company's console and I'm not going to buy into their "we care about the consumers, even-though we really don't" crap either. I'll never buy another XBox.
 

Do4600

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MichaelPalin said:
People, people, this is the perfect time to force Valve (Steam) and EA (Origin) to do the same. You, journalists, take the telephone right now and ask those companies why we cannot sell and lend our disc-based games on PC!? And people, for Christ sake, stop buying from those companies until they remove DRM from disc-based games!
Did you miss the news? Somebody found a new string of code in Steam since the last patch that includes this:
"SteamUI_JoinDialog_SharedLicense_Title" "Shared game library"
"SteamUI_JoinDialog_SharedLicenseLocked_OwnerText" "Just so you know, your games are currently in use by %borrower%. Playing now will send %borrower% a notice that it's time to quit."
"SteamUI_JoinDialog_SharedLicenseLocked_BorrowerText" "This shared game is currently unavailable. Please try again later or buy this game for your own library."

Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/125168-Rumor-Game-Sharing-Coming-To-Steam?utm_source=news&utm_medium=index_carousel&utm_campaign=all#VX0501WvOrzlIeIB.99
Also, if Microsoft can remove it in a few hours they can reestablish it in a few hours.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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PatrickXD said:
I'm really disappointed with the reversal of opinion. What made the Xbone interesting to me - the always online connectivity, family sharing and mandatory Kinect - has been somewhat put down. I was looking forward to what exactly 'cloud computing' can do, I was interested in more games adopting systems like Dark Souls and Demon's Souls. You know, integrating the single and multiplayer experience? Game developers can no longer guarantee that every user has access to the internet, which could have been an interesting point to develop from. Now, well, we'll never know.
And that's what hurts about this. What the Xbone was doing was unprecedented. Don't get me wrong, I know that doesn't mean good, inherently. It's just, and bear with me here, nobody has to buy the Xbox One. The PS4 was always an option, and a cheaper one at that. If you don't have an internet connection, you have the option of - no, not the xbox 360 - the PS4. It's there. It's a choice. A safe choice. It's not changing anything. The Xbone? Previously we didn't know if it would be a safe choice. We didn't know if it was what we wanted. It certainly wasn't a rich dark roast. And that's what we want, isn't it? We all want a rich dark roast. We all sing together that we know what we want and what we want is a rich dark roast.

The Xbone could have been a game changer. Microsoft has decided now to go where the money is, abandon it's backbone and chase after every ounce of hype and every last dollar. And now we will never know, at least not for another 8 years, if the Xbone's original system is in fact a great one.

For posterity, I wholly support being able to just, you know, give people discs.

EDIT: I just thought I'd point out something that really irks me about this whole Xbone situation, as I feel it represents the gaming industry and culture as a whole.
People complain, day in and day out, about the lack of change in games. The repetition of the exact same systems and stories from past generations of game. And yet, when Microsoft tried something new with a console, everyone cried 'What's wrong with the way things are? Can't everything just be the same? Everything is fine here, we don't need change!'.
Food for thought.
DUDE WTF?1

How does "do innovative games please" translate into
"mandatory 24h checkins, mandatory spycam (and btw nothing about the kinnect brought GOOD THINGS. its a sucky device made of fail.) and the abolishment of ownership combined with a FORCED social component?"


WHAT THE HELL.

I want a console that plays ionnovative gamnes - when i want them. Is that to much to ask? Do it like sony: OPTIONAL EXTRA content is the key here. Optional social shit. OPTIONAL!!! O-P-T-I-O-N-A-L as in "MY EFFING CHOICE!"


thank you.


captcha: oh yes. right on.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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MichaelPalin said:
People, people, this is the perfect time to force Valve (Steam) and EA (Origin) to do the same. You, journalists, take the telephone right now and ask those companies why we cannot sell and lend our disc-based games on PC!? And people, for Christ sake, stop buying from those companies until they remove DRM from disc-based games!
Considering that im buying me steam games with 50-75% discounts... asking for used games is like asking the hobo for his pants... ^^

Considering the years of good conduct and service of steam, i count steam as a decent form of drm. A drm yes, but the benefits go 2 ways. Companys have security (haha.. as if...) and i have a reliably and cheap games ( i just have to wait a bit. considering the sheer amount of games we pack-rat every summer sale... i have a library that will take a while to go through ^^. enough time for newer titles to go budget.



And then there is desura, GOG green man... etc....
 

gphjr14

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Too little too late I'm afraid.

Unlike the "new coke" debacle that resulted in increased sales after they did a 180. Microsoft has undoubtedly lost millions by pissing off loyal fans. Hell I've said it before I planned on getting one because developers can't stop suckling at Microsoft's money teat and pretty much convinced themselves that delaying DLC was alright so long as they got paid more to do so. Looking like my PS1-3 will have another sibling to join its ranks.
 

immortalfrieza

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Seracen said:
I agree, however, that I will not forget what was done here. Just as I have sworn off buying EA and Capcom games unless used or on sale (due to their policies), I will not buy XBONE until they've proven to me that they won't go back on their word again.

To wit, that means a solid year of waiting, playing PS4 in the meanwhile (assuming I buy next gen at launch at all). By then, they'll have worked out the kinks and gotten a decent stable of games (and had plenty of opportunity to screw the consumer over again with some form of BS).
Same here, I was planning to wait a year before getting any console regardless, but the fact that Microsoft decided to even CONSIDER this DRM and 24 hour check in garbage, even if they turned around later like they have, not to mention actually put it in means that it'll be an easy wait.

I knew they were going to backpedal on this DRM crap so fast they'd pull a Superman and go back in time, and if they can do it so quickly they can easily go back and reverse that. Besides, it requires an internet connection to download the patch needed to remove this stuff, why couldn't they have had it factory installed?
 

braincore02

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Jan 14, 2008
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Agreed to everything in the vid. This is good. Makes the X1 a possible gaming choice for me, and keeps Sony on a shorter leash by having MS not be as much the bad guy.

But they can reverse it.

I need a guarantee they won't.

And make Kinect optional.

Then I'm interested.
 

Tilted_Logic

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Apr 2, 2010
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I didn't realize how much I had been looking forward to this video until I noticed this thread. It's great to see changes being made to support the consumer, but part of me wanted to see the Xbox One stay as it was come launch; just to see if any of the ideas they were trying to push would suddenly make sense when the world had access to the console.
 

satsugaikaze

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Feb 26, 2011
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The whole thing reminds me of this:

Pretty funny (and grossly oversimplifying problems), but... yeah.

Also, Microsoft went on record for saying that the first Kinect was shit because it was an add-on piece of hardware thrown in as an afterthought, and this time around it'll be built for the console. Also, a spy-cam?

It's amazing how much rhetoric is still going around these days. Sony "slaying the green dragon" or whatever the hell people are talking about these days. But hey, let's all conjecture about how well the hardware works before anyone's really had the chance to even use it.
 

Chaos42

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Feb 25, 2010
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don't trust microsoft -they planned to pull this shit meaning their fully prepared to do this -i don't trust them not to do it -once its been bought whats to stop microsoft from implementing this kind of crap on consumes -nil and you have bought the system your stuck with it -if they make it toxic their will be no way to sell it and all they have to do is tell retailers not to accept returns because retailers can only do that if they can get a refund themselves from the company if they can't there is no way they will do it -plus all they have to do is wait to drop it wait 6 months or less and most people will be outside the return window -and then bag caught in the trap -i say we go with sony as they have said they have no intention of shafting us like this-and as long as we keep an eye on them i think they will stay honest -as long as we watch them =though this is a comforting sight as a company sees the wrath of its fan base it shows that when we move as one and show our rage we can actually make these bastards do what we tell them to -next project is getting the price of games at launch lowered to about 49.99 again. Seriously though i think thats the next major thing we need to get pissed off at
 

Banzaiman

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Jun 7, 2013
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Huh. So the DRM and digital requirements aren't crucial for the architecture to work or whatever. It's not necessary for this 'dream console' to work well.

Of course, we all knew that already. We saw through that bullshit excuse. Which was where the flak was coming from.

This is ultimately a good thing, but it kind of sickens me that after all that - after all of Don's smiling and appeasing and crappy claims - they're getting rid of the DRM. It's not sickening because it belongs there, it's sickening because they're not even trying to hide the fact that this was all bullshit and they were doing it for their own interests.

Reversing their shitty practices has done and will do more good than harm, but it's just a disgusting tell of both how self-centered MS is and how little integrity they actually have for their own supposed ideas.
 

RicoADF

Welcome back Commander
Jun 2, 2009
3,147
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PatrickXD said:
I'm really disappointed with the reversal of opinion. What made the Xbone interesting to me - the always online connectivity, family sharing and mandatory Kinect - has been somewhat put down. I was looking forward to what exactly 'cloud computing' can do, I was interested in more games adopting systems like Dark Souls and Demon's Souls. You know, integrating the single and multiplayer experience? Game developers can no longer guarantee that every user has access to the internet, which could have been an interesting point to develop from. Now, well, we'll never know.
And that's what hurts about this. What the Xbone was doing was unprecedented. Don't get me wrong, I know that doesn't mean good, inherently. It's just, and bear with me here, nobody has to buy the Xbox One. The PS4 was always an option, and a cheaper one at that. If you don't have an internet connection, you have the option of - no, not the xbox 360 - the PS4. It's there. It's a choice. A safe choice. It's not changing anything. The Xbone? Previously we didn't know if it would be a safe choice. We didn't know if it was what we wanted. It certainly wasn't a rich dark roast. And that's what we want, isn't it? We all want a rich dark roast. We all sing together that we know what we want and what we want is a rich dark roast.

The Xbone could have been a game changer. Microsoft has decided now to go where the money is, abandon it's backbone and chase after every ounce of hype and every last dollar. And now we will never know, at least not for another 8 years, if the Xbone's original system is in fact a great one.

For posterity, I wholly support being able to just, you know, give people discs.

EDIT: I just thought I'd point out something that really irks me about this whole Xbone situation, as I feel it represents the gaming industry and culture as a whole.
People complain, day in and day out, about the lack of change in games. The repetition of the exact same systems and stories from past generations of game. And yet, when Microsoft tried something new with a console, everyone cried 'What's wrong with the way things are? Can't everything just be the same? Everything is fine here, we don't need change!'.
Food for thought.
I understand where your coming from and your right that some of the features are quite interesting and had promise, however, their PR showed they have little regard for their consumer. It's not the idea that's bad, it's the execution both with PR and the console. If they have those features as options, so people that want to use them, I have no issues with it. Theres no reason the game can't go into an offline mode, they wanted to force always online onto us which is a no go. You don't 'force' your consumer to accept illegal (in many countries) practices by locking out fair trading of games except at 'certain retailers'. That's called a monopoly, and a breach in free commerce.
Honestly I wish they could have had the nice features without being dicks and with a simple 'offline mode' for the licence holder, I can understand the family members/friends needing to be online to prevent people abusing the system, but the person with the disc should have had a simple offline mode that's verified by the disc itself.
 

Banzaiman

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PatrickXD said:
EDIT: I just thought I'd point out something that really irks me about this whole Xbone situation, as I feel it represents the gaming industry and culture as a whole.
People complain, day in and day out, about the lack of change in games. The repetition of the exact same systems and stories from past generations of game. And yet, when Microsoft tried something new with a console, everyone cried 'What's wrong with the way things are? Can't everything just be the same? Everything is fine here, we don't need change!'.
Food for thought.
I'm sorry, this just doesn't sit well with me because it's a cry of hypocrisy when there really is none. In your own words, people complain about the lack of games and didn't like that Microsoft brought out a new console. That's not hypocrisy, that's liking the platforms that are in existence already and wanting something better to play on them. I know what you're getting at, and the fact that people are collectively crying for sameyness seems very off-putting, but I don't think it's the same thing as you're making it sound. I've never had an issue with my console - I just wish there was a wider variety of games on it than the slurry of shooters and comparatively small number of non-shooter titles.
 

faefrost

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Jun 2, 2010
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Blue Ranger said:
Apparently you still need an internet connection for the first time set-up of the system? What the hell is with that garbage? What, it can't work right out of the box?
Well if for no other reason, than they are going to have to use a day one patch to strip out all of the DRM junk that they just promised us won't be there. I mean you know that any process or code that does that has been in no way tested yet, or even developed. They sat down in a high level meeting, asked an engineer can the DRM and always online be disabled? They answered yes, probably, and the execs ran with it to the nearest camera, leaving the engineers struggling to get out the pitfalls and problems.

Think of it this way troops. We won a battle today. But not yet the war. The Creepy Skynet Kinect box is still reuqired (Unless all of europe bans that sucker). And maybe getting them to beat their XBL Gold pricing down to PS+? Just as our little way of reminding them who's in charge now?
 

tardcore

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Jan 15, 2011
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PatrickXD said:
I'm really disappointed with the reversal of opinion. What made the Xbone interesting to me - the always online connectivity, family sharing and mandatory Kinect - has been somewhat put down. I was looking forward to what exactly 'cloud computing' can do, I was interested in more games adopting systems like Dark Souls and Demon's Souls. You know, integrating the single and multiplayer experience? Game developers can no longer guarantee that every user has access to the internet, which could have been an interesting point to develop from. Now, well, we'll never know.
And that's what hurts about this. What the Xbone was doing was unprecedented. Don't get me wrong, I know that doesn't mean good, inherently. It's just, and bear with me here, nobody has to buy the Xbox One. The PS4 was always an option, and a cheaper one at that. If you don't have an internet connection, you have the option of - no, not the xbox 360 - the PS4. It's there. It's a choice. A safe choice. It's not changing anything. The Xbone? Previously we didn't know if it would be a safe choice. We didn't know if it was what we wanted. It certainly wasn't a rich dark roast. And that's what we want, isn't it? We all want a rich dark roast. We all sing together that we know what we want and what we want is a rich dark roast.

The Xbone could have been a game changer. Microsoft has decided now to go where the money is, abandon it's backbone and chase after every ounce of hype and every last dollar. And now we will never know, at least not for another 8 years, if the Xbone's original system is in fact a great one.

For posterity, I wholly support being able to just, you know, give people discs.

EDIT: I just thought I'd point out something that really irks me about this whole Xbone situation, as I feel it represents the gaming industry and culture as a whole.
People complain, day in and day out, about the lack of change in games. The repetition of the exact same systems and stories from past generations of game. And yet, when Microsoft tried something new with a console, everyone cried 'What's wrong with the way things are? Can't everything just be the same? Everything is fine here, we don't need change!'.
Food for thought.
Sorry but I wholeheartedly disagree. Nothing Microsoft brought to the table with the Xbone improved the gaming experience for the customer in any way. All these new features did was take even more rights away from the consumer and allowed game publishers an avenue to do likewise. Instead of a more powerful console to play good games on they decided they needed to saddle their customers with something akin to an alien facehugger because apparently they don't care what the customer wants, but only what THEY want. If they'd stuck to their guns and launched the console as announced it would still have all the same shitty rehashed games we see every generation because that is a failing of the game makers not the console designers, only this time we'd have less freedom and versatility to play them. So please stop treating Microsoft as the victim. They made some stupid and arrogant design choices for their own benefit and this time the gaming public, their customer base they seemed to have ignored when dreaming up this monstrosity, told them to go fuck themselves.

Its a great day for freedom, Goliath? Meet David.
 

IamLEAM1983

Neloth's got swag.
Aug 22, 2011
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I understand how some people could feel a bit let-down by the retraction of some of the console's online features, but the problem isn't in the family sharing or the thirty days before-trade-authorized limitation. In and of itself, I doubt most people were honestly angry about the always-online connection, because the fact is, most of us are already always online.

The thing is, though; we like to be always online because we chose to be. We like the convenience of a persistent connection, but not the idea that someone else is using it to spy on us every twenty-four hours. We enjoy the accessibility being always online brings us, but we value our privacy. I never turn my router or my modem off and I'm technically always sending pings to my ISP ? but I value the idea of being able to pull the plug while remaining functional on some base-line level. Privacy's the main motivator, yes ? but there's also the fact that North America's Internet coverage is still extremely spotty. We're definitely not at the point where our infrastructure is so solid as to allow for an honestly and openly always-online system to work adequately. That goes without mentioning the issue of soldiers being abroad, who'd very much like to have access to some quality entertainment, but who'd be boned by any system that's seriously dependent on reliable broadband. If there's spots in the US where the most you can hope to get is 56K dialup access or ADSL-comparable satellite access, you can bet your ass there's going to be huge swaths of terrain, abroad, where the online offering will be even worse ? if not nonexistent.

Considering, Steam and Origin have Offline modes. Considering, several games still come in physical retail copies you can technically play without the Web needing to get involved. Finally, considering that inadequacy ? old games that predate DRM are suddenly appealing on the technical level.

The long and short of it is that if Microsoft wants to drag its consumer base into what it thinks is the technological model of the future ? it has to rethink its priorities. People want to swap discs between friends and relatives and shareholders want reassurance that sales won't slip through their fingers.

You can't have your cake and eat it, too. Either we give in and lose several decades' worth of acquired and expected consumer rights and eventually get past the shock to review the copyright and ownership culture from the ground up ? or they give in and realize that evolution always sees resistance. They'll have to bend past those things consumers aren't willing to let go of, rather than assume that ?educating? the user base will be sufficient.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Difference between steam and This Xnone stuff?

Steam came onto a plattform (pc) that was well supplied with alternatives, and steam did meet lots of resistance and riddicule. Because early steam was shit. But steam stuck around, IMPROVED its SERVICe to US, imrpoved its own infrastructure and generall became some we WANT to use because the plusses outweigh the minusses.

We ulimativly have the CHOICE with steam. There are enough game alternatives on PC so you do not need to get caught up in the hostage situation.


What MS did was say "We force this on you, NOW!"

Cloud? Still optional, just make sure the gamebox say's "needs onlien connectino for cloud bla bla".

There. Not forcing this on everybody is an option. Giving consumers choices is the best way to market yourself.
"No you do not need to jump through these hoops but if you do, it will be awesome!"

So fuck that dorkly pic. Its BS.
 

thenumberthirteen

Unlucky for some
Dec 19, 2007
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Yuuki said:
I have to disagree. They were coy about their DRM at first and were quite vague until they were, basically, forced to clarify. It wasn't front and centre; only the press coverage focused on it.

Always online DRM has been building as a force for years now, and a lot of people expected one of the two consoles to have some form of used game restrictions for a long while before any of the reveals. It was really only a matter of time before one of the big players introduced something like that to curb the used game and pirate market. It would have gone over well with publishers and content providers who want secure controls over how their content is used.

Microsoft would have known it would have been a hard pill to swallow, but I don't think they realised exactly HOW hard. If this DOES work out ok for them in the end it won't be due to them "pretending" to have awful DRM. It will be despite it.
 

UberNoodle

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I reckon MS simply decided to 'shoot for the moon' with a far out DRM policy and if it stuck, they'd be happy, but otherwise they'd retract it all to the extreme and win adoration from the crowd as the company which dared put consumers first. It's like praising a murderer because he decided not to kill you today. Sure, it probably took a lot of fortitude to do go against hard instincts, but he shouldn't be killing people anyway!
 

jluzar20

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I'm ready for my thoughts to take a ride on that wave of opinions!!!

Jim was remarkably naive in this video.
Microsoft and xbox are still massive (insert your favourite insult here)s.
They deserve no consumer respect or money after this frankly juvenile back pedalling.
And worst of all, folks. We have entered an incredibly scary time for gaming. Welcome to gaming a la presidential elections!!! Not that I mind, really. No one is going to care and I'm going to gaming under the radar.

Ta.
 

punipunipyo

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Jan 20, 2011
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nah, you fuck with the consumers once, we will not forget, but I'll keep in mind the old M$ who claimed in E3 "... the result of the launch sale will speak for it self, we are confident..." "we have a offline system, it's called Xbox 360" "We here in M$ thinks that ownership is shifting..." Yeah, We the consumers OWNS YOU, You don't treat us like your bitches; it's the other way around! I guess that Xbone-Eighty maneuver is M$'s acknowledgement of that little fact eh~?

WE will not be denied, we will remember, and we WILL make ourselves known, SUCK IT M$!~ PS4 ALL THE WAY!~ (besides, we've got a better system, with better pricing... what more is there to choose from except Bayonetta2? and that had NOTHING TO DO WITH M$...
 

Nazulu

They will not take our Fluids
Jun 5, 2008
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So is the mandatory Kinnect still there, spying on us? Cause that would be my only issue with it then, as well as all the other features I don't care for.

Entitled said:
Also a great new proof of the truth of the older "why complaining is more effective than boycotts" episode.

For everyone who was moaning about how people should just shut up on online forums and vote with their wallet, well, here is the result of not shutting up.
Those people are like Microsoft, they wouldn't understand. Remember that it should work their way and we should just deal with it, because for some reason they can't ignore other opinions.
 

ExtraDebit

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Jul 16, 2011
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Reversing their policy don't mean shit, they could always reverse it again later. Unless it's something binding and enforcible by law. Don't be fooled.
 

A3sir

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Mar 25, 2010
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Posted this in a thread earlier, holds relevance here too

I have been loyal to MS for my whole computing life, always had windows, always had Xbox, hell I even defended the Zune. I said no. It still comes with the kinect at $100 which I don't want, you can no longer share games online and the fact that they lied, "you cannot just flip a switch, it's core to the system" and then just flipped the switch is too suspicious for me to trust them. And the whole "Patch 1.1: Re-adds all DRM" is too much of a possibility. The PS4 is simply a more powerful system for ~3/4 of the price.

They just need a balance. They are going from one extreme to the other.

Sell a system with and without the kinect. People without it just can't use the kinect commands. Most cross platform games aren't going to have the kinect commands as they will have to write it in specifically for XB1 versions of the game, so even if they do make a kinect friendly version, you will still be able to play without using kinect commands. I also have no problem pressing a button as opposed to saying "XBOX ON" and random people wont be able to walk into the room and yell "throw grenade, quicksave" and run off.

Make the system HAVE to check in every 24 hours if you want to share your games. Sure, if you don't check in, lock the game from your family list, just don't stop them being played in offline mode on the console they are installed on. Or in other words, no check in to play offline on your console, check in for sharing and "family library" play. Yes, it is that simple.

As for trade ins, the selling disks, no selling digital is how it is now and there is no way around that unless they allow us to package up bought games and allow us to gift them to people. I could see this having the 30 day friends restriction ON DIGITAL COPIES ONLY and I would be fine with it. To stop people installing and then selling the game and still play offline, when installing the game via CD, don't install everything, leave one part that boots the game stay on the disk so to play disk based games, you either a- have to have an online connection, which will boot the game or b- insert the disk and the game will boot off the disk then run from the machine. Having a physical copy of my disk is a small price to pay to be able to play when I visit family without internet connections or when I go away.
These also perfectly represent my feelings.



 

nevarran

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Apr 6, 2010
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Jimothy Sterling said:
You mean like major publishers still try to pull on PC all-digital platforms?

Don't pretend companies would magically turn over a new leaf with the Xbox One.
Valve does. EA and Ubi are building their stuff as well, they just can't afford to anger the retailers.
GOG's killing it. The guys at CDPR are making their game, putting it on their own servers and selling it. They don't need a publisher, for this, let alone retailers.
X180's initial policy was destroying disc games, that would've been a big step towards digital only distribution.
Now back at square one.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

I never asked for this
Sep 8, 2011
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I didn't know that PS4 was on Fallon as well. That pretty much explains why Microsoft decided to do this. They were counting on uninformed consumers, but that move changed everything.
 

Tumedus

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The funny thing is I don't think people have that much issue with the those specific DRM policies (other than the 24 hour check in) for digital goods. If they had applied all those features strictly to the digital goods yet allowed physical copies to work as they had in the past, people would have strolled willingly into the arms of this new control scheme. After all, more and more digital version of games are being sold all the time.

No its the "we have to take it all and we have to take it right now!" that screwed them.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Tumedus said:
The funny thing is I don't think people have that much issue with the those specific DRM policies (other than the 24 hour check in) for digital goods. If they had applied all those features strictly to the digital goods yet allowed physical copies to work as they had in the past, people would have strolled willingly into the arms of this new control scheme. After all, more and more digital version of games are being sold all the time.

No its the "we have to take it all and we have to take it right now!" that screwed them.
aye. steam and co ar a good example for a good vis a vis DRM sheme.
 

Monsterfurby

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Mar 7, 2008
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Credossuck said:
aye. steam and co ar a good example for a good vis a vis DRM sheme.
What people often forget is that Steam also has an opt-in DRM system. For many titles, for example Europa Universalis III or Crusader Kings 2, it only acts as a content delivery system. After downloading, you can basically copy your files to a different directory and run the game entirely without Steam.

Steam itself should not be confused with DRM - it's a digital content delivery system with the option for DRM.
 

Sir Prize

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Dec 29, 2009
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It's good to know that MS have listened, even if it's with their wallets. I'm still not getting the Xbox One, there is still a good chance they'll gradually bring back all bad patch-by-patch. I'd doubt they'd do it straight but over time they will probably bring all that stuff back, thinking people will have forgotten about it. MS is probably hoping that the user base will just sit back and let it happen, because they've already brought console and won't have much other choice.
 

themilo504

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Nice evil laugh.

well this is nice, despite that if I?m going to buy a next gen console I?m probably going to get a ps4, mostly because it?s cheaper.

But I don?t have any plans to buy a next gen console, so really I wonder why I even care.
 

mdqp

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nevarran said:
Valve does. EA and Ubi are building their stuff as well, they just can't afford to anger the retailers.
GOG's killing it. The guys at CDPR are making their game, putting it on their own servers and selling it. They don't need a publisher, for this, let alone retailers.
X180's initial policy was destroying disc games, that would've been a big step towards digital only distribution.
Now back at square one.
I don't think Jim would have a problem with GOG, given its DRM-free policy, so maybe that's unrelated. Having said that, I see what you mean, but the problem with the Xbox one would have been that the DRM was part of the hardware. On PC, you have options, on the Xbox one, you wouldn't have competition between different distribution platforms, it would be either DRM or no games, with just Gamestop-like stores and a single digital one to buy games from. It's the kind of environment that makes it harder to expect drop in prices, sales, and whatnot.
 

nevarran

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mdqp said:
I don't think Jim would have a problem with GOG, given its DRM-free policy, so maybe that's unrelated. Having said that, I see what you mean, but the problem with the Xbox one would have been that the DRM was part of the hardware. On PC, you have options, on the Xbox one, you wouldn't have competition between different distribution platforms, it would be either DRM or no games, with just Gamestop-like stores and a single digital one to buy games from. It's the kind of environment that makes it harder to expect drop in prices, sales, and whatnot.
I see you point about the X180 being closed market. All I'm saying is that it would've pushed people to embrace the digital distribution, make it much more popular than it is now.
And MS would still have Sony's (and partially Nintendo's) competition. Especially now, when their hardware is so similar. They would've competed on prices and features.
And look at Kindle, for example. It's closed system, you buy from Amazon and read on their device. Yet the digital books have lower price than the paper copies.
 

Smiley Face

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PatrickXD said:
If you don't have an internet connection, you have the option of - no, not the xbox 360 - the PS4. It's there. It's a choice. A safe choice. It's not changing anything. The Xbone? Previously we didn't know if it would be a safe choice. We didn't know if it was what we wanted. It certainly wasn't a rich dark roast. And that's what we want, isn't it? We all want a rich dark roast. We all sing together that we know what we want and what we want is a rich dark roast.
While that is a lovely callback, you're using it, I think, in error. The 'rich dark roast' argument is an argument wherein people SAY they want apparently interesting, classy things, but then opt for the familiar, safer, milder choice. The PS4 is the milder choice. It plays games, and doesn't throw hurdles in front of you. That's the baseline everyone wants. The Xbone was the rich dark roast - it came with all the extras, like the Kinect, and promises of cloud gaming, and being a media centre, all things people say they'd like if their console also did - but when it comes down to it, the more things it does other than gaming, the worse it looks to most of us. And then, they put that rich dark roast in a state of the art coffee cup which disintegrates when you leave the store with it - they say it's so that you don't need to go through the hassle of disposing of it, but really it's so you have to spend more time in their store, or have to deal with getting burned when the coffee spills down your pants.

Moreover, regarding the rest of your argument, the features taken out of the Xbox have nothing to do with cloud games and whatnot. What's been removed is the mandatory 24-hour check in, and the game-sharing nonsense. If a developer makes a game that requires a constant connection to the internet and takes advantage of the cloud (whatever that means), they can still do it. In fact, they can also do it on the PS4, or computers. That was the problem with this policy in the first place - a 24-hour check up has nothing to do with what kind of games your machine is capable of playing.

In summary, while Xbox's promise of cloud gaming might have been a game changer, this won't change that. Either it'll come true, or Microsoft will just have made empty promises.


For my part, Microsoft is now back in contention. They're still far from an equal contender - they'd need to outpace Sony in terms of exclusives that I want if they want an even match - and given Sony's strong record with good exclusives, I don't see that happening.
 

luvd1

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nevarran said:
mdqp said:
I don't think Jim would have a problem with GOG, given its DRM-free policy, so maybe that's unrelated. Having said that, I see what you mean, but the problem with the Xbox one would have been that the DRM was part of the hardware. On PC, you have options, on the Xbox one, you wouldn't have competition between different distribution platforms, it would be either DRM or no games, with just Gamestop-like stores and a single digital one to buy games from. It's the kind of environment that makes it harder to expect drop in prices, sales, and whatnot.
I see you point about the X180 being closed market. All I'm saying is that it would've pushed people to embrace the digital distribution, make it much more popular than it is now.
And MS would still have Sony's (and partially Nintendo's) competition. Especially now, when their hardware is so similar. They would've competed on prices and features.
And look at Kindle, for example. It's closed system, you buy from Amazon and read on their device. Yet the digital books have lower price than the paper copies.
But as the kindle is concerned, you can download the kindle app on any device. I have kindle synced up on both my iPad and Samsung phone.
 

nevarran

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luvd1 said:
But as the kindle is concerned, you can download the kindle app on any device. I have kindle synced up on both my iPad and Samsung phone.
See, that makes my point even stronger. Given the chance, companies would lower the digital prices. So Amazon is not just selling you books at lower price, because you have to buy their device, they're selling cheaper, because digital goods are replicated virtually for free.
 

mdqp

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nevarran said:
I see you point about the X180 being closed market. All I'm saying is that it would've pushed people to embrace the digital distribution, make it much more popular than it is now.
And MS would still have Sony's (and partially Nintendo's) competition. Especially now, when their hardware is so similar. They would've competed on prices and features.
And look at Kindle, for example. It's closed system, you buy from Amazon and read on their device. Yet the digital books have lower price than the paper copies.
Yeah, but you don't have a single e-book format (not all e-books have DRM), and you can read e-books on all sorts of platforms, while Xbox One games are obviously only for the Xbox One, which means the digital market will almost assuredly be a monopoly (and they would have all had to stay under one big DRM umbrella), handled by Microsoft.

I can't see the future, nor can I know for sure what they'll do with the system, but it's just hard to compare the PC market with the console market, so it's also very difficult to predict prices going down just because digital copies become widespread, or at least, this is how it seems to me.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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nevarran said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
You mean like major publishers still try to pull on PC all-digital platforms?

Don't pretend companies would magically turn over a new leaf with the Xbox One.
Valve does. EA and Ubi are building their stuff as well, they just can't afford to anger the retailers.
GOG's killing it. The guys at CDPR are making their game, putting it on their own servers and selling it. They don't need a publisher, for this, let alone retailers.
X180's initial policy was destroying disc games, that would've been a big step towards digital only distribution.
Now back at square one.
They were trying to take step five before they took steps one, two, three, and four. Consoles need to do a lot more to justify moving toward a near-all digital format. They don't get to suddenly move into it without providing a lot more of what PC provides customers first.
 

grumpymooselion

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"Maybe it's that I find it hard to forgive the follies and vices of others, or their offenses against me. My good opinion, once lost, is lost forever."

- Mr. Darcy

I am glad they reversed their decision, but like Jim, I will never forget what they tried to do. I will never forget any of the things companies have done, or tried to do, and I will still not be buying an Xbox One. Why? Because shame on me if I do. Knowing they could reverse this decision again, that the system is set up to go this route again at any time I cannot, and will not, in good conscience support a company that even 'tried' to do this. No matter that they reversed their decision, they tried to do this, and I respect that, but I cannot forget. I cannot forget that Microsoft employee after Microsoft employee treated people that thought their old policy was bod like freaks, and some even responded to criticism and question - just questions - with anger and annoyance. This is not the way a company I want to buy from treats critics and customers.

My good opinion, dear Microsoft, is indeed lost forever.
 

cieply

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Microsoft does not listen to customers, no matter how many snarky critical videos would have been made, they just don't care. The only language such corporations speak is the business chart one. They did not back from anything after the reveal; E3 only cemented their misguided policies. However, miraculously, after a time that I assume would be enough to gather their firs preorder info, they had a change of heart. Let noone get fooled, this is the only kind of argument they understand. There probably is a lot of research done on how preorders translate into later purchases, it surely allows companies to do some accurate estimates. I can only guess that prepurchases that they saw now must have made them shit a metaphorical brick.

Microsoft did not reverse all the bad things it's doing. It merely tries to do damage control and then signify it with their massive PR money. It is still a console for which you have to pay 100$ more in order to get a device that will be a quite useless gimmick at best, and an easily hackable spying device at best. With the whole PRISM scandal, I would be extra careful about what devices such as this are capable of learning about me. It still is a 100$ more expensive piece of hardware with inferior specs.
 

nevarran

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Jimothy Sterling said:
They were trying to take step five before they took steps one, two, three, and four. Consoles need to do a lot more to justify moving toward a near-all digital format. They don't get to suddenly move into it without providing a lot more of what PC provides customers first.
Oh, I agree. MS are a bunch of arrogant morons, and they are to blame for all this shit-storm.
Had they have been able to communicate their vision and plans with us, in a more understandable and consumer-friendly manner, even take a step back, if necessary, the change, I think needs to happen, would have.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Yuuki said:
(to so many who asked, yes it's a microphone on the right guy's face)
That interveiw was amazing for just how defensive Microsoft were over simple aspects of their console. It seems they KNEW they were actively attacking consumers and just didn't care. They were hoping they could cover it up. He dealt with almost none of Joes (and everyone elses) concerns, he wasn't able to answer basic questions without deflecting. It was a PR massacre. Joe isn't exactly Jeremy Paxman and they still looked like Richard Nixon after Watergate.

I'm just flabbergasted at how badly they've done every aspect of this.
 

AWAR

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Nov 15, 2009
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Great news, now you can all go buy it on release date without guilt. ^^
 

Jenny Jones

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Oh they've reviewed their DRM policy and other shitty stuff, ok I'll get one now...

NO! That kind of attitude is not good. M$ should be burned for even suggesting all this to begin with, they deserve to have a failed system and exit the console market. Buying something because they reversed their shitty policy does not excuse the behaviour especially when it's been so easy to do a 180 on it. If you think it will stop here you're laughing. They will keep pushing and pushing with new and insidious ways to skrew the consumer over. If ever there was a time to familiarise yourself with consumer rights with regards to shop and online purchases now is the time.

Jim is right, don't ever forget this and be vigilant.
 

Techno Squidgy

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PatrickXD said:
I just thought I'd point out something that really irks me about this whole Xbone situation, as I feel it represents the gaming industry and culture as a whole.
People complain, day in and day out, about the lack of change in games. The repetition of the exact same systems and stories from past generations of game. And yet, when Microsoft tried something new with a console, everyone cried 'What's wrong with the way things are? Can't everything just be the same? Everything is fine here, we don't need change!'.
Food for thought.
No change is better than a bad change. Say every day, a man comes up and kicks you in the shins. You'd want change right? If that change were to be the man coming back with steel toe-caps, you'd think that perhaps this isn't the change you wanted.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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I'm less disinterested in getting an XB1 now, but I'm still not planning to get one.

If nothing else, I've learned to never buy/install anything from Microsoft that's v1.0.

Give the XB1 a couple years of evolution, and then we'll see.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Techno Squidgy said:
No change is better than a bad change. Say every day, a man comes up and kicks you in the shins. You'd want change right? If that change were to be the man coming back with steel toe-caps, you'd think that perhaps this isn't the change you wanted.
Whereas Sony has kicked customers in the shins for years and years, and then suddenly said that they're going to stop.

That promised change makes them awesome?
 

webkilla

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Feb 2, 2011
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I must say I'm surprised that this happened - but now the question is what'll happen next

I'm guessing that M$ will enable some kind of online registration of your Xbone games to enable the 'steam-like' feature for your disc-bought games, adding that doing so will lock it to your account, but then allow you to download it from other xbone's that you log on to

...and if you ever want to sell it, you just de-register the game online to 'free up' the disc so you can go and sell it

This is perfectly doable and enables both systems.
 

Mr. Q

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Apr 30, 2013
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Xbox One drops its shitty DRM policies and the fastest Jimquisition on record?!?

 

Lightknight

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Nov 26, 2008
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Great, they brought two componenets up to par with what Sony was already doing. Now they just need to give us anything that is actually better than the alternative. Then they need to give us ENOUGH things that are better than the alternative because right now I'm still stinging from the slap they gave would-be consumers.

They saw all this as the future and simply tried to make it happen. Same with the Win8 GUI (that I happen to personally like) where they forced it instead of making it optional when they could have. Dumb.

This still does not fix:

1. The console being weaker.
2. The console being more expensive.
3. The whole kinect debacle that watches you while you touch yourself any time the Xbone is on and is required for use.
4. The console likely requiring cloud computing to compete with the ps4 in a few years (because the ps4 is estimated to be around 50% more powerful and Sony also has cloud processing capabilities of their own). This will effectively require always on and be a logistics nightmare if they plan to double or triple the computing power while getting all that data across the network instantly to NOT lag your single player experience.
5. Their 2 games/month is still ending in December 2013. Meaning that their membership service is more expensive and less valuable.
6. The fact that they purposefully treated the consumer like crap. Literally telling reporters that consumers were too dumb to pay attention to details. I couldn't believe they actually said that their data showed that. They actually gave us insight into the negative way they view us as mindless money bags. There's nothing they can do to this short of admitting fault and basically groveling and even that may not do the trick here. If they do stuff like this when they think they have leverage and only undo it when it's clear they don't, then we can't have faith in them as a company in the future. Sure, future consoles should be backwards compatible if they exist, but will we want the next Xbox? Not if they stick to their guns then. The ps3 may have done some weird stuff, but that was cost and difficulty for developers. Not an outright war on consumers' rights and wants. If the message at Microsoft is that the consumer is always dumb and always wrong, then I can't justify giving them more money than I have to.

Comparing Microsoft with the PS4 still results in the PS4 having all positives or equivalent scores while giving Microsoft all negatives or equivalent scores. It's quite staggering that they dropped the ball this much and even such a bold move only brings them up to par.
 

mistahzig1

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Microsoft should do a parody of Sony's "How to lend a game to a friend" video: the EXACT same thing, but with 2 guys with black eyes and missing teeth...
 

The Great JT

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Ladies, gentlemen, friends, Romans, countrymen, let it be known that today we won. However, don't get complacent. Any more of this DRM garbage or treating-the-customers-like-criminals-until-proven-otherwise-and-we're-in-a-good-mood bullshit comes from any company, not just Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, whoever, you say "we don't want that, we won't buy it," they'll take notice. The internet is your bullhorn, people. Get to shouting.

Viva la customer revolution.
 

Sonic Doctor

Time Lord / Whack-A-Newbie!
Jan 9, 2010
3,042
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ritchards said:
OT: I'm still predicting that this was not planned, and they quickly patched code... which will break.
I have strong feeling that it was planned before E3, considering the DRM stuff wasn't mentioned at all during the conference and they canceled all interviews that were to take place after, that way they wouldn't get anymore questions about the DRM stuff.
The blunder happened when Angry Joe surprised Major Nelson with questions when Nelson was on his way between meetings.

I willing to bet that Nelson was under some-kind of no talk rule about the new changes until it got official announced, so he still had to act like the Xbox One was still going to have the DRM. Well, either that or with how slow Microsoft's PR department is and how it seems that their left hand doesn't know what the right is doing, Nelson might not have even known yet at E3 that the DRM was being revoked.

Edit: On the code thing, Microsoft has four months to get the stuff fixed, so at least they have some time.
 

Techno Squidgy

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MinionJoe said:
Techno Squidgy said:
No change is better than a bad change. Say every day, a man comes up and kicks you in the shins. You'd want change right? If that change were to be the man coming back with steel toe-caps, you'd think that perhaps this isn't the change you wanted.
Whereas Sony has kicked customers in the shins for years and years, and then suddenly said that they're going to stop.

That promised change makes them awesome?
You're putting words in my mouth.

To continue with this increasingly silly metaphor, you'd be grateful that they stopped but you'd still keep an eye on him in case he started again.

What have Sony done that's been so terrible anyway? I can't think of anything, but clearly there's something, maybe many things, that I've forgotten or not thought about.
 

Rebel_Raven

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Well, this video exists now. Huzzah for NMATV!
http://youtu.be/tRJ97ZeK_BQ

Honestly, the flak Microsoft took is their own fault. If they were straight up with us from the get go, and didn't dodge questions and gave us information, and maybe prepared their spokeman Major Nelson with info, and spoilered their vision for the future a bit more, and, well, didn't expect buyers to jump in more or less blind with few solid facts, they might not have taken the heat they did.

They should've used some tact, and diplomacy to explain things better.

All in all, I think they ended up generating all the wrong impressions. All they really talked about in gaming was restrictions, restrictions, restrictions. What freedoms were given came tied to heavy handed restrictions.

They seemed to show little forethought. Especially towards the military, charities, and so forth that rely on gaming initially.

We're talking about the Xbone, but not in any sort of positive light.

Seriously, I don't think we're ready for a pure digital DRM PC styled console. Didn't the PSP try an all digital download method already?

Honestly, it's going to be a while before I get any new console. I need to see their libraries grow first off. It's time that Xbone can use to get their stuff straight with me.

Right now, I'm content to stick to my current consoles for a while. There's this gen games that'll content me.

And I agree with the sentiments of never forget!
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance!

And honestly, this game sharing thing? Last I heard you can't play the game you lent while it's lent. Last thing I need is someone pestering me that they wanna play the game while I'm trying to enjoy it. Then again, it's friends only, and if I'm selective about who I add to my list it shouldn't be a problem. I'm gunna need more than one game though for when I'm kicked off of the game I'm lending. Sounds like a mess to me.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Techno Squidgy said:
You're putting words in my mouth.
Sorry. I like putting things in places. :D

To continue with this increasingly silly metaphor, you'd be grateful that they stopped but you'd still keep an eye on him in case he started again.
Exactly! Give them a chance, but keep the shin guards on. But I (at least) wouldn't suddenly become their best friend and pre-order their console.

What have Sony done that's been so terrible anyway? I can't think of anything, but clearly there's something, maybe many things, that I've forgotten or not thought about.
They created SecuROM. Granted, it was EA that used Sony's SecuROM that holed my previous PC, but Sony created the tool.

They sued customers for modifying the PS3. You don't license hardware and companies can't tell you not to make changes (so long as you're willing to invalidate your warranty). If you then use the modified hardware to do something illegal, that's a matter for law enforcement, not private companies.

They regularly block YouTube content with even a hint of Sony content. Captain Sparklez still has a video locked because Sony (and Universal) thought it was too close to their content, even though it was a completely new and derivative work.

So, yes, Sony has a habit of kicking customers in the shins. Hard and repeatedly. This sudden turn-around with the PS4, while appreciated, does not mean I'm giving them a free pass.
 

jackdaniel0001

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Jun 8, 2011
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I am hugely disappointed at this reversal. MS should have stuck to their gun, waited to see the results. I don't agree with their DRM and game policy, but I can buy PS4 instead. There are plenty of people who do agree with MS policy, and I feel those people got robbed of an potentially interesting purchasing option.

We had 2 distinct consoles and 2 very different gaming models, now we have only one. I say to each his/her own, if people are willing to put up the DRM crap for a digital/cloud system, they should be able to have that option.

Before:
People who like cloud/digital medium - Xbox1
People who don't care - PS4

After
People who like cloud/digital medium - ???
Everyone else - PS4/Xbox1

This reversal isn't a victory, it's bad news.
 

Techno Squidgy

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MinionJoe said:
Techno Squidgy said:
You're putting words in my mouth.
Sorry. I like putting things in places. :D
Careful now!
To continue with this increasingly silly metaphor, you'd be grateful that they stopped but you'd still keep an eye on him in case he started again.
Exactly! Give them a chance, but keep the shin guards on. But I (at least) wouldn't suddenly become their best friend and pre-order their console.
I'm not Sony's best friend by any means, but they've certainly done a grand job of selling the PS4 to me. It simply looks superior on all fronts, and apart from the fact that my PS3 is currently suffering from a YLoD, I've never had an issue with them.
What have Sony done that's been so terrible anyway? I can't think of anything, but clearly there's something, maybe many things, that I've forgotten or not thought about.
They created SecuROM. Granted, it was EA that used Sony's SecuROM that holed my previous PC, but Sony created the tool.
Sony created SecuROM? Well I'll be damned. What a nightmare that bastard was.
They sued customers for modifying the PS3. You don't license hardware and companies can't tell you not to make changes (so long as you're willing to invalidate your warranty). If you then use the modified hardware to do something illegal, that's a matter for law enforcement, not private companies.
Okay, yeah that's pretty shit. I bought the console, I can do whatever I damn well like with it. I could understand if they prevented them from accessing PSN from a modded console, but suing?
They regularly block YouTube content with even a hint of Sony content. Captain Sparklez still has a video locked because Sony (and Universal) thought it was too close to their content, even though it was a completely new and derivative work.
I'm probably going to put this down to lawyers being lawyers. All copyright legislation is bullshit anyway.
So, yes, Sony has a habit of kicking customers in the shins. Hard and repeatedly. This sudden turn-around with the PS4, while appreciated, does not mean I'm giving them a free pass.
No me neither, but that should go without saying. We should always be watching what the game industry is up to.
 

Johnson McGee

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I want to see that Jimmy Fallon clip about the DRM but I can't find anything other than him shilling demos for both the consoles.
 

Frostbyte666

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Good but microsoft don't deserve to be thanked or applauded for this decision, remember the absence of abuse does not equal kindness. We still have the kinect, or affectionately HAL, the only time I would find this useful is if I needed a pacemaker and if my heart stopped the console will dial up emergency services, but since that isn't the case screw them, since I do not trust MS in the slightest and expect them to turn on these 'features' back on in a service update at some point, like the PS3 got rid of some services in updates. I was going to skip this generation of consoles but the PS4 is looking more and more attractive.
 

Deadcyde

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PatrickXD said:
I'm really disappointed with the reversal of opinion. What made the Xbone interesting to me - the always online connectivity, family sharing and mandatory Kinect - has been somewhat put down.
you're kidding right?

I take it you haven't been paying attention to diablo 3 or sim shitty? Hell, even WoW.

Always online can't be done. Secondly, what the hell man? Don't you have any desire for privacy? As well as the fact the xbone 180 will be doing things that you can get a smart tv to do, and the smart tv will do it better and cheaper.

It's supposed to be for gaming. Xbox gold membership requirements, average hardware, always on multitasking, forced kinect use. No, not even close to a decent gaming machine. If you want your connectivity so badly, get a pc. It'll do it better and cheaper.

As for your dark souls thing.. er, dark souls did it, so i assume we will know. Otherwise the xbone 180 is a travesty and even the reverse from DRM barely makes it palatable.

(so we're clear this isn't bias, this is xbro betrayal anger)
 

weirdsoup

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Sorry to pop the jubilation bubble, but this is not a victory. This is Microsoft at their money grubbing, self-interest serving best.

I fully expect this whole ugly saga to raise it's head once enough people have bought Xbones because they think that MS has backed down. Then like some video game version of the Borg, these Xbones will awaken and enslave us. Or at least remove our ability to trade in games and turn off the Kinnect.
 

HyenaThePirate

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The thing about change, and ultimately justice, is that it has to be objective and fair.
Yes, DRM is removed... the voice of the people has been heard.

It does NO real good if there is not at least some reward for capitulating. Otherwise you haven't really taught a lesson, you just won a battle.

If you slap a child for doing wrong, you may stop them from performing a bad behavior, but without the positive reinforcement to show that punishment is not just arbitrary, no lesson is learned. They'll just find a different way and revisit it again when people go to sleep.

You want the company to learn a lesson... FINISH THE LESSON. They heard the complaints, realized they made a grievous error, and reversed course. The message was sent and received. The community was heard. Now the community must show them that there is a BENEFIT to adjusting your business to suit the customer, not just at the START but even later if the need arises. People should be buying Xbox One now simply because Microsoft did something few corporations are doing these days... ACTUALLY listening to the customer complaints.

How many examples can you provide of Sony doing this? And I don't mean their yet to be realized promises with the PS4.
If you sit back and think about it, Sony for certain takes hard line stances and at least MS has shown a willingness to humble itself even if they did so out of greed.
When Sony installed hidden malware and rootkits on people's systems, instead of learning from it and apologizing, they pretty much said we were too stupid to even know what a rootkit was so why should we get all uppity?

Like Jim said, Forgive but never forget.. but forgiveness in the world of business means SUPPORT of a product. Otherwise, your forgiveness is about as useless as a fart in a hurricane.
 

theaudioprophet

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geizr said:
[h4] A company hears and understands ONLY two sounds, the creak of your wallet opening and the slap of your wallet closing. All other sounds are noise to be ignored.[/h4].
My thoughts exactly. I don't think/hope Don will be renewing his gold account after his utterly retarded mouthfarts
 

Kroxile

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Only thing bad about this is that the whole 3 fanboys MS had before will grow to 100 and I will still have to deal with them all.

Seriously, its like I'm the only guy who likes Nintendo and Sony where I live lol
 

NoaNeumann

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They've hurt their consumers and while some of the abused will be crawling back, others will not, they shall look at this as a chance to break away. Oh what's that? You mean you had to wait for consumers and all of the media to basically throw a GIANT fit at you before you did anything? Oh yeah MS, congrats, you basically waited to do something decent when you basically had no choice BUT to. I'd of loved to of been a fly on the wall of that conversation 'b-but money!' lol, I shall not forgive them, they've been dicks for a long time now, though now that I have seen their 'true' face of what they are capable of, I know now that MS is only hiding behind an apologetic mask, probably waiting till we all lower our guard them BOOM DRM and everything else is back, 'ha ha you already bought one, so :p' goes MS.
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
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Entitled said:
Also a great new proof of the truth of the older "why complaining is more effective than boycotts" episode.

For everyone who was moaning about how people should just shut up on online forums and vote with their wallet, well, here is the result of not shutting up.
Who are these people saying that because you boycott something, you should also shut up? Boycotting almost always goes hand-in-hand with complaining. You don't boycott something and shut up, you boycott and tell everyone why you are boycotting.

In this case, don't you think that the "boycott" aspect was part of it? PS4 pre-orders were going through the roof, while few were pre-ording Xbones. I think Microsoft saw that "Holy shit, it looks like our sales might suffer" as the more significant factor than the complaining. It was like a pre-boycott, with people indicating how they were planning to spend their money.

Without that impetus, I don't think their policies would have changed before release.
 

Sir Shockwave

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Honestly, I'm still not convinced at all this. Sure, they've dropped one method, but they're keeping the compulsory Kinect, the Cloud system and other methods of controlling you and disk checking. And I'm betting after this, Microsoft isn't going to talk publicly about these methods either...
 

Jimothy Sterling

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I've been spreading this around since it struck me this morning.

In an article posted today attempting to placate consumers Microsoft let slip this statement. "There was always going to be a day one update on the console" - Microsoft

It got me thinking about system updates. Remember when Sony yanked OtherOs support from PS3 via system updates required to play newer games? Yadda yadda I'm sure Sony had good reason etc, but the precedent stands.

I'm 100% certain now Microsoft will attempt this scenario sometime in the life of the xbone. They'll likely defend it with the cloud computing nonsense about games needing the internet to run properly.

Anyway just food for thought.
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
1,262
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Yuuki said:
I read a very convincing argument from a friend on Facebook on why he thinks this was all part of the plan:

Markus Palm said:
Take a company like Microsoft, a multi-billion dollar corporation. It's in their utmost interest to be at the top when it comes to the console race to acquire revenue. They spent years researching the market and their consumer base. These corporations don't make "mistakes", especially not in this magnitude...
Sorry, that's not convincing at all. Big companies make huge mistakes all the time. And many of those mistakes are made because they are so big. Particularly in Microsoft's case, a sprawling, incoherent company comprised of many divisions with different agendas competing with one another (and an incompetent CEO).

These companies are run by multi-millionaires and billionaires surrounded by yes-men. People who have completely lost touch with the reality of the ordinary citizen's life. As for "market research" - if you've ever seen how that usually works, it's pretty much BS designed to get the answers the company wants.

In the wake of an era where we've seen the collapse of massive financial institutions, environmental disasters cause by huge companies' errors, and so forth, how can you take the "big corporations know exactly what they are doing" argument seriously? If Microsoft were so competent and all-knowing, then how did they let the entire mobile computing market be stolen from under them by a near-bankrupt underdog like Apple? How did they release Windows 8 to near-universal disdain?

The only plan this was part of, was part of executives' wet dream to have all consumers under their total control. It was never intended as an ironic marketing campaign. It's just that the executives thought that people wouldn't notice.
 

idodo35

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unless they also reverse the limited release (not releasing it worldwide) this means fuck all for me since i cant get the damned thing even if i want to, so fuck you microsoft!
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
1,262
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mdqp said:
\Yeah, but you don't have a single e-book format (not all e-books have DRM), and you can read e-books on all sorts of platforms, while Xbox One games are obviously only for the Xbox One, which means the digital market will almost assuredly be a monopoly (and they would have all had to stay under one big DRM umbrella), handled by Microsoft.
That's not what "monopoly" means. Yes, Xbone games will only work with the Xbone. But if the Xbone doesn't have a controlling position in the video game market, that isn't a monopoly.

On the other side of the coin, Kindle readers being available on multiple platforms does not mean that Amazon doesn't have a monopoly. Quite the contrary - if Amazon has a controlling position in eBooks, then it has a monopoly, even if its software is available on all platforms. In fact, having the software on all platforms could actually be considered even more monopolistic, if the main source of eBooks is Amazon, to the detriment of other suppliers.
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
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Jimothy Sterling said:
They were trying to take step five before they took steps one, two, three, and four. Consoles need to do a lot more to justify moving toward a near-all digital format. They don't get to suddenly move into it without providing a lot more of what PC provides customers first.
Jim, it's sad to see you perpetuating this misuse of the word "digital."

How are any of the games we have used in the last three decades been anything but "all-digital"? The very basis of computing and video games is digital. Those games you buy on a disc? Those are all-digital. There is no analog component. The only non-digital computer games were obscure experiments in the 50s and 60s.

It's incredibly bizarre that people somehow think that only downloaded games are "digital" but games on a disc aren't. Remember the whole deal about Compact Discs? It was revolutionary because it was digital audio (and still is), compared to magnetic tape and phonographs. We've been living in a digital world for a long time. It's strange that people somehow confuse distribution models with fundamental technologies. I thought you would have known better than to buy into this nonsense, Jim.
 

Sizzle Montyjing

Pronouns - Slam/Slammed/Slammin'
Apr 5, 2011
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PatrickXD said:
I was looking forward to what exactly 'cloud computing' can do,
Sadly, I'm not sure that this whole cloud computing thing was actually real (as in it was making a huge difference, of course it technically exists), otherwise they wouldn't of been able to 180 so quickly. They were making it out to be some huge game-changer that without games would not be the same, and then they get rid of it and not a word is mentioned?
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Aardvaarkman said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
They were trying to take step five before they took steps one, two, three, and four. Consoles need to do a lot more to justify moving toward a near-all digital format. They don't get to suddenly move into it without providing a lot more of what PC provides customers first.
Jim, it's sad to see you perpetuating this misuse of the word "digital."

How are any of the games we have used in the last three decades been anything but "all-digital"? The very basis of computing and video games is digital. Those games you buy on a disc? Those are all-digital. There is no analog component. The only non-digital computer games were obscure experiments in the 50s and 60s.

It's incredibly bizarre that people somehow think that only downloaded games are "digital" but games on a disc aren't. Remember the whole deal about Compact Discs? It was revolutionary because it was digital audio (and still is), compared to magnetic tape and phonographs. We've been living in a digital world for a long time. It's strange that people somehow confuse distribution models with fundamental technologies. I thought you would have known better than to buy into this nonsense, Jim.
Welcome to the evolution of language.
 

-Dragmire-

King over my mind
Mar 29, 2011
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A3sir said:
Posted this in a thread earlier, holds relevance here too

I have been loyal to MS for my whole computing life, always had windows, always had Xbox, hell I even defended the Zune. I said no. It still comes with the kinect at $100 which I don't want, you can no longer share games online and the fact that they lied, "you cannot just flip a switch, it's core to the system" and then just flipped the switch is too suspicious for me to trust them. And the whole "Patch 1.1: Re-adds all DRM" is too much of a possibility. The PS4 is simply a more powerful system for ~3/4 of the price.

They just need a balance. They are going from one extreme to the other.

Sell a system with and without the kinect. People without it just can't use the kinect commands. Most cross platform games aren't going to have the kinect commands as they will have to write it in specifically for XB1 versions of the game, so even if they do make a kinect friendly version, you will still be able to play without using kinect commands. I also have no problem pressing a button as opposed to saying "XBOX ON" and random people wont be able to walk into the room and yell "throw grenade, quicksave" and run off.

Make the system HAVE to check in every 24 hours if you want to share your games. Sure, if you don't check in, lock the game from your family list, just don't stop them being played in offline mode on the console they are installed on. Or in other words, no check in to play offline on your console, check in for sharing and "family library" play. Yes, it is that simple.

As for trade ins, the selling disks, no selling digital is how it is now and there is no way around that unless they allow us to package up bought games and allow us to gift them to people. I could see this having the 30 day friends restriction ON DIGITAL COPIES ONLY and I would be fine with it. To stop people installing and then selling the game and still play offline, when installing the game via CD, don't install everything, leave one part that boots the game stay on the disk so to play disk based games, you either a- have to have an online connection, which will boot the game or b- insert the disk and the game will boot off the disk then run from the machine. Having a physical copy of my disk is a small price to pay to be able to play when I visit family without internet connections or when I go away.
These also perfectly represent my feelings.



I don't think region locking will come back though. Imagine blacking out entire countries via region locking post release, my god that would be a suicidal move.


The rest of the drm might come back but bringing back region lock would be (I can't believe I'm saying this) too stupid for Microsoft.
 

mdqp

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Oct 21, 2011
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Aardvaarkman said:
That's not what "monopoly" means. Yes, Xbone games will only work with the Xbone. But if the Xbone doesn't have a controlling position in the video game market, that isn't a monopoly.

On the other side of the coin, Kindle readers being available on multiple platforms does not mean that Amazon doesn't have a monopoly. Quite the contrary - if Amazon has a controlling position in eBooks, then it has a monopoly, even if its software is available on all platforms. In fact, having the software on all platforms could actually be considered even more monopolistic, if the main source of eBooks is Amazon, to the detriment of other suppliers.
Well, you know what I meant, though. Basically, all digital sales would have to pass through their systems, and no competition would be found there.

On the other hand, there are a LOT of different websites which sell e-books, and having a controlling position isn't a monopoly either, strictly speaking (Steam has a dominant role in the PC digital market, but it isn't a monopoly, and Amazon doesn't have a monopoly either). The different retailers competing with each other mean a lot, when it comes to actually get better deals for the consumers, because even those who hold the biggest share of the market will keep offering good prices, in order to keep their position. A real monopoly would probably see terrible prices attached with it.
 

thepyrethatburns

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weirdsoup said:
Sorry to pop the jubilation bubble, but this is not a victory. This is Microsoft at their money grubbing, self-interest serving best.

I fully expect this whole ugly saga to raise it's head once enough people have bought Xbones because they think that MS has backed down. Then like some video game version of the Borg, these Xbones will awaken and enslave us. Or at least remove our ability to trade in games and turn off the Kinnect.
Quite possible. The reason that Sony got away with their massive security fail/dumping Linux is because it happened after they had their install base well established. A few Youtube reaction videos aside, most people didn't toss their PS3 in the garbage over that.

The same thing could happen here. Microsoft waits a couple years for their install base to be established THEN switches it back on knowing that most people aren't going to dump their XBone and their accumulated games.

This strikes me more as a tactical retreat than a victory.
 

ImmortalDrifter

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People forgive Sony for the Hack. They forgive Sony for screwing linux. They forgive Sony for hounding modders. They forgive Sony for the "status symbol" comment. They forgive Sony for the update bricking peoples' consoles.

Microsoft pulls a reversal on their DRM. No one forgives them.

Ah, what a glorious day of fanboyism have we.

Captcha: Filthy dirty mess... Poignant.
 

cridia

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PatrickXD said:
I'm really disappointed with the reversal of opinion. What made the Xbone interesting to me - the always online connectivity, family sharing and mandatory Kinect - has been somewhat put down. I was looking forward to what exactly 'cloud computing' can do, I was interested in more games adopting systems like Dark Souls and Demon's Souls. You know, integrating the single and multiplayer experience? Game developers can no longer guarantee that every user has access to the internet, which could have been an interesting point to develop from. Now, well, we'll never know.
And that's what hurts about this. What the Xbone was doing was unprecedented. Don't get me wrong, I know that doesn't mean good, inherently. It's just, and bear with me here, nobody has to buy the Xbox One. The PS4 was always an option, and a cheaper one at that. If you don't have an internet connection, you have the option of - no, not the xbox 360 - the PS4. It's there. It's a choice. A safe choice. It's not changing anything. The Xbone? Previously we didn't know if it would be a safe choice. We didn't know if it was what we wanted. It certainly wasn't a rich dark roast. And that's what we want, isn't it? We all want a rich dark roast. We all sing together that we know what we want and what we want is a rich dark roast.

The Xbone could have been a game changer. Microsoft has decided now to go where the money is, abandon it's backbone and chase after every ounce of hype and every last dollar. And now we will never know, at least not for another 8 years, if the Xbone's original system is in fact a great one.

For posterity, I wholly support being able to just, you know, give people discs.

EDIT: I just thought I'd point out something that really irks me about this whole Xbone situation, as I feel it represents the gaming industry and culture as a whole.
People complain, day in and day out, about the lack of change in games. The repetition of the exact same systems and stories from past generations of game. And yet, when Microsoft tried something new with a console, everyone cried 'What's wrong with the way things are? Can't everything just be the same? Everything is fine here, we don't need change!'.
Food for thought.
First of all; with the many titles going multiplatform, there is no way that they would code it for a feature one console has and another one doesn't. Sure, maybe in the start to get things going when the ideas are still fresh (and they have a definite need to stand out), but once the generation starts running, say goodbye to those features. Second of all; online is already here to stay. Whether you have an always online or just a console with the capability to work online doesn't change this fact. Did the optional online stop developers from cramming multiplayer into pretty much everyone of their franchises? Did optional online stop games like the ones you named (Dark Souls and Demon Souls) stop from being made? Nope, it didn't. In other words; there would have been no added advantage to make the console always online for a multitude of factors, the biggest one being that online is already popular enough as it is.

As for the other features, sure, we could argue that the family system was a great one. However, and even though we shall never know the truth now, I honestly doubt that Microsoft would actually enable 9 people from your family to just borrow your shared games without any questions asked. Keep in mind that this is the same company that was giving the publishers the ability to lock out used games in an industry where everyone is crying foul of used games. You honestly think those publishers would suddenly be so altruistic ass to give away no less than 9 licenses (even if it is your family) of games they could have sold at full price to them? I highly doubt it. I would sooner suspect that that family sharing would have come with high restrictions, like putting a timer on the game (making it a glorified demo) or whatnot.

The problem with the Xbone was that for every step it went forward, it took 10 steps back. For everything we had to look forward to, there were a gazillion hoops we would have to jump through just to get there; that's not even to mention that they were deliberatly alienating half of their consumer base (keep in mind, while everyone would want to have good internet, it is not a given that everyone will) and going so faar as to have region locks that would potentially lock you out on a per country basis. That's NOT progress.

I am all for innovation and I do not mind a console with nothing but digital content. However, the way Microsoft was going was exactly as Jim said earlier; the "death of ownership." And that's not the way you want to introduce an all-digital landscape. Plus, with all the things they were limiting from the get-go, there is a good chance those limitations would negatively influence anythin positive they said they were adding to the console (refer to my point in regards to family sharing earlier). If they want to set up a good online space, first they will need to set up a consumer space that would emulate that of the current situation, which includes but is not limited to the ability to sell your own bloody property (and yes, I do think that Steam should do something like that as well before I consider it a valid alternative to gaming consoles).

In the end, people likely voted with their wallets. I am pretty sure that the reason for their backpeddaling was that they were taking hits in pre-orders. I for one, am rather glad it happened.
 

Rebel_Raven

New member
Jul 24, 2011
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ImmortalDrifter said:
People forgive Sony for the Hack. They forgive Sony for screwing linux. They forgive Sony for hounding modders. They forgive Sony for the "status symbol" comment. They forgive Sony for the update bricking peoples' consoles.

Microsoft pulls a reversal on their DRM. No one forgives them.

Ah, what a glorious day of fanboyism have we.

Captcha: Filthy dirty mess... Poignant.
While I'm by no means a "fanboy" the fact Microsoft decided to horrible horrible things to the economy with the DRM, killing used game sales, and the fact they've proven rather greedy in their refusal to lower digital game prices ever, well, these factors and more kinda played a part in the fact we don't trust them anymore. Further, if we didn't say anything, or did anything about it, then as far as we know, these heavy handed restrictions would have been PERMENANT. Across ALL Xbones. A massive middle finger to many countries, our own country, and the consumer.
And the whole thing about using a 360 if you have a crap connection as opposed to a xbone? The 360's support's going to dry up. That much is inevitable.
The military would get screwed, charities would have been screwed over, there's no telling how many people would be OUT OF A JOB in game retails over this.
Further, they yoinked a feature they could have contended with in the sharing/lending they were planning on doing.

A "bricking" can get repaired, a hack can be fixed (and no system is hackproof), modding/hacking isn't right (and microsoft goes after people for the same thing), these things are temporary.
The hacking was out of sony's hands.
Going after the modding/hacking is necessary for the sanctity of our gaming experiences, and Sony, on the same frikking day it seems, pulled the patch before it could do more damage. I didn't get patched despite auto update and I heard about the patch after the patch got released, and pulled.

Honestly, I don't know about this status symbol thing, and I don't know about the screwing of linux, though.

If you don't like the way I explained things, maybe Angry Joe might be more pallatable?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcXdWRJ-xb4
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Apr 18, 2011
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jackdaniel0001 said:
I am hugely disappointed at this reversal. MS should have stuck to their gun, waited to see the results. I don't agree with their DRM and game policy, but I can buy PS4 instead. There are plenty of people who do agree with MS policy, and I feel those people got robbed of an potentially interesting purchasing option.

We had 2 distinct consoles and 2 very different gaming models, now we have only one. I say to each his/her own, if people are willing to put up the DRM crap for a digital/cloud system, they should be able to have that option.

Before:
People who like cloud/digital medium - Xbox1
People who don't care - PS4

After
People who like cloud/digital medium - ???
Everyone else - PS4/Xbox1

This reversal isn't a victory, it's bad news.
Umm, no, actually it's not bad news. Both Xbox One and PS4 can still have cloud, and they already confirmed they will have digital content as well. A system being used offline doesn't prevent those digital features. It doesn't actually have to be one or the other.
 

Mosstromo

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Jul 5, 2008
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Awesome.
Jim, I have been warned by the moderators because I post too briefly and not "discuss" the topic at hand, but screw it, all I want to say is: Man, you really make me laugh. You have a gift.
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
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Jimothy Sterling said:
Welcome to the evolution of language.
I think you mean "devolution."

"Digital" was a perfectly useful word until it started getting abused like this. It actually meant something. Can you please explain to me how games on disc are not "digital"? And what makes downloaded games entitled to a special "digital" class just because of how they are distributed?

Evolution of language is fine when it it helps us make more refined or meaningful distinctions, but this use just muddies the waters and doesn't help anybody make meaningful statements.

P.S: Misusing "digital" in this way just plays into the hands of the spin-doctors and rapacious publishing companies you dislike. It allows them to spin something old as new again. I thought you were a fan of plain and frank speech, not misleading double-speak. Call things what they are.
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
1,262
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mdqp said:
Well, you know what I meant, though. Basically, all digital sales would have to pass through their systems, and no competition would be found there.
But you specifically cited the Kindle as an example of something which is not a monopoly. But all Kindle book sales flow through Amazon. So how does that make Amazon not a monopoly by this logic?
 

masticina

New member
Jan 19, 2011
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Mmm the power of money,

Aka pre-order sales we're a bit down we'ren't they. Oh they we're done compared to that OTHER console out there.

Of course they still can re-activate their DRM later.. or in next generation. Of course..

[captcha: this is sparta] Yes it is captcha
 

LordMonty

Badgerlord
Jul 2, 2008
570
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This has done terrible PR damage to microsoft and I don't think they realised till this week how much. Frankly its out of touch twats that brought this upon us and thank Sony for having the balls to stand up for us mild as it was all of this has left me uneasy with what Microsoft will do next to make up for whatever this is gonig to cost them and whose going to trust them to do the right thing there?

Also you still need to go online once with the xboxone to make it work offline right? so the ball-ache isn't entirely behind us.

I'll go PS4 at some point if i can afford it amid other things all the while being as always 90% a PC gamer, I will never get the xbone80 as I don't think trust is something i can give microsoft easily.