Jimquisition: Xbox One No DRM Emergency Special!

[Tanakh]

Yeah, but we already have useful words for that, such as "downloaded" or online." Thee's also the fact that downloaded games are also physically transported, so that's not a useful distinction. Electrons physically exist, even though you might not be able to see them or pick one up.

I like you, nice use of language, clear idea of how things work on the physical side. It's probably not worth the time posting, people around here have weird notions like digital means something is "intangible" and almost magical, it but suit yourself.

 

[thehorror2]

OT: I'm still predicting that this was not planned, and they quickly patched code... which will break.

More like, they shoehorned the DRM code into the software, and this is just them taking out what they had their coders force in.

 

[ImmortalDrifter]

Snipped for typing space (These miller ads damn it)

I'm not down on Sony anymore than I am with Microsoft. The thing is, is I see a lot of baseless trust being put in Sony despite the fact that they are just as much of a mega-corp as Microsoft. They patented that anti-used drive earlier, but decided in the end not to use it. (yet) Everyone seems to have forgotten that in essence Sony pulled the same thing. They just kept tight-lipped; which would have been sound strategy for Microsoft. I know we aren't ready for total digital yet, but for some reason I think Microsoft actually thought we were. Something about their statements didn't seem insidious to me, just ignorant. The market (Read: us complaining) proved them otherwise so they revised their strategy. Maybe I'm just a fanboy, I dunno. It doesn't really matter anymore.

Also the "Status symbol" thing was Sony saying "It doesn't matter if the PS3 has no good games, people will buy them anyway because they are a status symbol." (Which left a very bad taste in my mouth) The linux thing was Sony saying people could install linux on their PS3's, and then turning around and saying they can't. Then sueing them.

 

[triggrhappy94]

It doesn't look that bad now.
I still can't afford it, but it does look better.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Snipped for typing space (These miller ads damn it)

I'm not down on Sony anymore than I am with Microsoft. The thing is, is I see a lot of baseless trust being put in Sony despite the fact that they are just as much of a mega-corp as Microsoft. They patented that anti-used drive earlier, but decided in the end not to use it. (yet) Everyone seems to have forgotten that in essence Sony pulled the same thing. They just kept tight-lipped; which would have been sound strategy for Microsoft. I know we aren't ready for total digital yet, but for some reason I think Microsoft actually thought we were. Something about their statements didn't seem insidious to me, just ignorant. The market (Read: us complaining) proved them otherwise so they revised their strategy. Maybe I'm just a fanboy, I dunno. It doesn't really matter anymore.

Also the "Status symbol" thing was Sony saying "It doesn't matter if the PS3 has no good games, people will buy them anyway because they are a status symbol." (Which left a very bad taste in my mouth) The linux thing was Sony saying people could install linux on their PS3's, and then turning around and saying they can't. Then sueing them.

I understand the neutral stance on Sony and Microsoft. I'm there, more or less, myself. I just happen to like getting sales, and free stuff by subscribing to Plus more than what Microsoft does. Generally, I like what Sony does more.
I haven't forgotten the stuff Sony's done... mostly, I remember the Linux thing now, and what people have done to Sony. I'm well aware of Sony's nature since they keep sending me offers for their Sony themes Credit Card, and stuff.

Thing is there's a huge diffirence between patenting the technology, having it, and actually using it. Sony hasn't used it, and I think they recognize the world isn't ready yet since they saw what happened to Microsoft.

I'm not a huge fan of how Microsoft handled the situation on the public relations front myself. It made me suspicious to say the least. They couldn't give solid information, and when they did it was the DRMs, ands online requirements. Some people are still confused on the whole sharing thing. I think it was more business than an evil plot. Still, that doesn't really make it that much more tolerable.

As it stands, Sony's the lesser of the two evils to me, and no doubt a lot of other people.

Also, you have a strong memory. I ended up forgetting the Linux incident since it's been a really long time ago, and didn't impact me a whole lot.

The status symbol thing kinda rings true to me. Some people will buy things just to say they have it. I don't think they said it with the intent of making bad games either. I'm not entirely sure they meant it in a bad context. Bad games tend to not get bought, and all the ps3 sales in the world won't really off set that.

 

[ImmortalDrifter]

I understand the neutral stance on Sony and Microsoft. I'm there, more or less, myself. I just happen to like getting sales, and free stuff by subscribing to Plus more than what Microsoft does. Generally, I like what Sony does more.
I haven't forgotten the stuff Sony's done... mostly, I remember the Linux thing now, and what people have done to Sony. I'm well aware of Sony's nature since they keep sending me offers for their Sony themes Credit Card, and stuff.

Thing is there's a huge diffirence between patenting the technology, having it, and actually using it. Sony hasn't used it, and I think they recognize the world isn't ready yet since they saw what happened to Microsoft.

I'm not a huge fan of how Microsoft handled the situation on the public relations front myself. It made me suspicious to say the least. They couldn't give solid information, and when they did it was the DRMs, ands online requirements. Some people are still confused on the whole sharing thing. I think it was more business than an evil plot. Still, that doesn't really make it that much more tolerable.

As it stands, Sony's the lesser of the two evils to me, and no doubt a lot of other people.

Also, you have a strong memory. I ended up forgetting the Linux incident since it's been a really long time ago, and didn't impact me a whole lot.

The status symbol thing kinda rings true to me. Some people will buy things just to say they have it. I don't think they said it with the intent of making bad games either. I'm not entirely sure they meant it in a bad context. Bad games tend to not get bought, and all the ps3 sales in the world won't really off set that.

My point wasn't to convince you to not like Sony, if you enjoy their service then by all means continue paying for it. My ire is with the fanboys, and I think you're smart enough to know who I'm talking about. The ones who just blast ignorant hatred for Microsoft and equally ignorant love of Sony, everywhere.

Actually when you think about it, what Sony and Microsoft did was exactly the same. The Xbox One never hit shelves, it never actually impacted the consumer at all. Sony never just came out and said "We have a disc drive that blocks used games!" you have to actually look for the patent. Microsoft did come out with their DRM. After seeing the fan reaction, Sony pulled the ultimate PR move and drilled Microsoft for their DRM while letting theirs fade into obsurcity. I'm not a fan of how Microsoft handled it either, but everyone makes mistakes. I don't really hold it against them because most of the comments were made by one guy. That guy is an asshole, I would at least like to think the reversal means someone at Microsoft isn't.

You say the Linux fiasco faded from memory because it didn't matter to you... That actually reminds me of something else. I have a lot of frothing Sony fanboys as friends, and they all insisted that the Xbox One was bad because of the DRM and game sharing issues. At the same time these are people who pay through the nose for top-notch internet connections and buy all of their games new, typically at midnight. Both of those issues are things that wouldn't have affected them in the slightest. Yet they complained about it "on principle". Obviously this is anecdotal, but I wouldn't be surprised if they said the exact same thing you did just now if I brought up the Linux fiasco again. Food for thought, if nothing else.

The "status symbol" thing was aggrivating to me simply due to the fact that it can be paraphrased thusly: "We believe you should buy the system we marketed to play games, even though it doesn't have any because it will make you cool". It's like they were marketing to the people who buy Axe body spray.

Again, I'm not trying to change your opinion on Sony, Microsoft, DRM, or whatever else. If you like Sony, then go for it. I'm just tired of all the shouting, bickering, and smug comments. It's overdone, irrelevant, and most of all: Boring.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

I like you, nice use of language, clear idea of how things work on the physical side. It's probably not worth the time posting, people around here have weird notions like digital means something is "intangible" and almost magical, it but suit yourself.

Thank you for the compliment. I don't feel it's entirely deserved, because I also misspelt "There's" as "Thee's" and omitted the opening quotation marks for "online."

I'll go and punish myself now.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

-snip-

My point wasn't to convince you to not like Sony, if you enjoy their service then by all means continue paying for it. My ire is with the fanboys, and I think you're smart enough to know who I'm talking about. The ones who just blast ignorant hatred for Microsoft and equally ignorant love of Sony, everywhere.

Actually when you think about it, what Sony and Microsoft did was exactly the same. The Xbox One never hit shelves, it never actually impacted the consumer at all. Sony never just came out and said "We have a disc drive that blocks used games!" you have to actually look for the patent. Microsoft did come out with their DRM. After seeing the fan reaction, Sony pulled the ultimate PR move and drilled Microsoft for their DRM while letting theirs fade into obsurcity. I'm not a fan of how Microsoft handled it either, but everyone makes mistakes. I don't really hold it against them because most of the comments were made by one guy. That guy is an asshole, I would at least like to think the reversal means someone at Microsoft isn't.

You say the Linux fiasco faded from memory because it didn't matter to you... That actually reminds me of something else. I have a lot of frothing Sony fanboys as friends, and they all insisted that the Xbox One was bad because of the DRM and game sharing issues. At the same time these are people who pay through the nose for top-notch internet connections and buy all of their games new, typically at midnight. Both of those issues are things that wouldn't have affected them in the slightest. Yet they complained about it "on principle". Obviously this is anecdotal, but I wouldn't be surprised if they said the exact same thing you did just now if I brought up the Linux fiasco again. Food for thought, if nothing else.

The "status symbol" thing was aggrivating to me simply due to the fact that it can be paraphrased thusly: "We believe you should buy the system we marketed to play games, even though it doesn't have any because it will make you cool". It's like they were marketing to the people who buy Axe body spray.

Again, I'm not trying to change your opinion on Sony, Microsoft, DRM, or whatever else. If you like Sony, then go for it. I'm just tired of all the shouting, bickering, and smug comments. It's overdone, irrelevant, and most of all: Boring.

I know you're not trying to get me to not like sony. I just wanted to elaborate a bit more on why I'm not a fanboy.

And yeah, I know the fanboys you speak of. I can't see myself being that dedicated to a console, but I understand some about why people can be.

It's not really the same, the DRM situation between Sony, and Microsoft. Sony never really created the threat they'd use it. They never said they were going to use it. They never advertised they were. They were quiet about it. For all we know, as unlikely as it is, they might be holding on to it to prevent others from using it. At the least, that until they decide to use it themselves when they think the time is right. Honestly, I don't think the time will be right for a very long time thanks to what Microsoft did. These questions will haunt the gaming industry for a long time to come. There will be people with strong memories reminding people.
Optimisim in microsoft is fine, and dandy, but I gotta think the guy in charge made the decision to add, and remove the DRM are the same person, and it was removed because not enough consumers would support them on it.

The "principle" your friends talk about is something I agree with. It doesn't matter how it affects me, if it's a wide spread ripple of bad for lots of people, I'm not going to want to support the decision. Heck, the Xbone's still adversely affecting the military still requiring the internet at certain times.
That said, it's not the only reasons I hate the xbone. I don't want anything to do with the kinect. I'm a shy person who plays games with an air conditioner behind my TV in a room that probably is not going to support a kinect all too well to begin with. I don't even want to pay for Kinect just to have to put up with putting something over the lens, and dealing with the mic.

I'd say people forgot the linux incident because it seemed to blow over. No one talks about it anymore. It doesn't seem to have lasting impact short of the inability to instal it anymore on the ps3.

Sadly people have short memories. People might take the good news about dropped online check ins, and dropped DRM a bit too well, and forget what remaind that people complained about. People are going to eventually forget things like this if they blow over. Some sooner than others.
Still, the Xbone has a fair amount of remnants of the restrictions, made a giant splash with the removed restrictions, and the console wars aren't likely to let people forget any time soon.

I guess I can see your point on the status symbol point. I'm a late adapter, usually. I've little interest in buying either system right now. I need to see a better library thast suits my tastes. Until then, I'm happy with my ps3, and 360.

I don't think the Xbone's going to stop being talked about any time soon, honestly. Xbone threatened a lot of things people don't like, and is still keeping some of the things people don't like. It seemingly took a great deal of effort to get them to reconsider some of what they took away. It'll depend a lot on how long these things remain like the Kinect, and the still required internet for set up to say the least. I heard that you need the internet every time you instal a game, too.

I can understand why you're disinterested in the topic of what microsoft is doing wrong, but I don't know what I can say about it short of that it's going to happen for a while. I don't know how long it'll last, but it's not going away over night.

 

[ImmortalDrifter]

Snip.

Well in that case I could tell you were not a fanboy on the sheer basis of how reasonably you presented yourself in your response to my first post. =P

What I was saying is that even the fact that they made it at all indicates that they either intended to use it themselves, or sell it to someone else. Sony is a company after all, if they had absolutely no interest in that technology, then they wouldn't have devoted the R&D to attaining it. The best way to ensure no one could get it is to not make it at all. I'm not really optimistic about Microsoft, it's more of a faith in humanity argument.

The "principle" of which I spoke wasn't about the gravity of the issue, but what it said about them and the current status of consoles. The point of the Linux fiasco was not how many it affected, but the fact that Sony went back on their word. They wont't oppose Sony for going back on their word "on principle" because it didn't affect them, or it didn't affect as many people. But they will oppose Microsoft "on principle" even though they won't be affected, and neither will anyone they know. I just think it's interesting. I hated the Xbone's DRM as well, don't get me wrong. I'm just worried that people are letting themselves be riled into a frenzy when the only one who will truly benefit is Sony.

On a similar note, I don't like the Kinect either. That being said, I know people who do. It's similar to the wii in that respect, it's a "feature" that Microsoft thinks is necessary. It all depends on if it has games good enough to make me forget how much I don't like it. Though having friends who will never stop bothering me about it will most likely ensure that I get both the Xbone and PS4.

I don't intend to forget Microsoft's comments and transgressions any sooner than I have Sony's, but I will always hold them in equal standing. And it's good to see someone else who isn't on a bandwagon. The current gen doesn't have a share button. I rest my case.

And I know it isn't actually going to stop any time soon, but that doesn't stop me from wishing that it would. It's fine to remember what Microsoft did; it's another to blather on about it constantly. Then again, the second this blows over I have no doubt we'll be back to sexism and "Casuals" so maybe this isn't as bad as I thought...

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Snip.

Well in that case I could tell you were not a fanboy on the sheer basis of how reasonably you presented yourself in your response to my first post. =P

What I was saying is that even the fact that they made it at all indicates that they either intended to use it themselves, or sell it to someone else. Sony is a company after all, if they had absolutely no interest in that technology, then they wouldn't have devoted the R&D to attaining it. The best way to ensure no one could get it is to not make it at all. I'm not really optimistic about Microsoft, it's more of a faith in humanity argument.

The "principle" of which I spoke wasn't about the gravity of the issue, but what it said about them and the current status of consoles. The point of the Linux fiasco was not how many it affected, but the fact that Sony went back on their word. They wont't oppose Sony for going back on their word "on principle" because it didn't affect them, or it didn't affect as many people. But they will oppose Microsoft "on principle" even though they won't be affected, and neither will anyone they know. I just think it's interesting. I hated the Xbone's DRM as well, don't get me wrong. I'm just worried that people are letting themselves be riled into a frenzy when the only one who will truly benefit is Sony.

On a similar note, I don't like the Kinect either. That being said, I know people who do. It's similar to the wii in that respect, it's a "feature" that Microsoft thinks is necessary. It all depends on if it has games good enough to make me forget how much I don't like it. Though having friends who will never stop bothering me about it will most likely ensure that I get both the Xbone and PS4.

I don't intend to forget Microsoft's comments and transgressions any sooner than I have Sony's, but I will always hold them in equal standing. And it's good to see someone else who isn't on a bandwagon. The current gen doesn't have a share button. I rest my case.

And I know it isn't actually going to stop any time soon, but that doesn't stop me from wishing that it would. It's fine to remember what Microsoft did; it's another to blather on about it constantly. Then again, the second this blows over I have no doubt we'll be back to sexism and "Casuals" so maybe this isn't as bad as I thought...

You have a point in the motives of Sony.
If Sony didn't make it, someone else would have, though, and those people might've tried to follow through like Microsoft attempted. with sony sitting on it, it's one less method anyone else can use until Sony gives it up.
Sony may eventualy use it, but until then, they're just hanging on to it for the right time, IMO. Until they threaten to use it, I honestly can't condemn them for having it.

The gravity of the issue is what's going to tip scales, and make some transgressions look better, or worse compared to others.
The removed DRM, removed region locking, and removed forced checkups, and the still present required internet aren't really going to directly affect me, or anyone I know, either, but I know it'll affect a lot of people adversely, and the reprocussions of the still present restrictions will be felt. I respect the people that will be affected by these restrictions. Namely charities, sick children, foreigners, and the military to say the least.
And then there's that whole Kinect thing that will affect me.

You're welcome to worry about what people will do, but it won't stop them. The rational will feed the irrational unintentionally to say the least. Things are going to benefit sony a great deal, but I can only really blame Microsoft. It was their initial decision to do things that ticked people off, their reluctance to alter their plans, and it was their own PR, including Major Nelson who couldn't supply answers.
If they hadn't done that, then no one would talk about it, and thus we wouldn't be here.
I'll be fair, though, and say there's really no way Microsoft could've known for sure the whole DRM thing would've started so much trouble. I mean, people have spoken out against these things, but I don't believe it's happened to this extent. The backlash just snowballed, and they didn't know how to quell it.

I have no doubt there's people who'll appreciate the kinect, and all the things Xbone brings. I'm not going to fault them over it.

I seriously hope your friends will lay off on hasseling you over it. I definitely see why you're not pleased with the subject if it's heard about very commonly.

Ah, the PS4 share button. Something I'll not likely use intentionally. I might press it by accident though. lol
I'll be honest here, and say that the social stuff on ps4 isn't something I'm relishing either. I hope it doesn't end up smothering me.

Yeah, there's always going to be a hot topic that gets widely discussed as the current one comes, and goes.
Eventually people will stop talking about the Xbone, or atleast it won't be as often as some more recent news pops up, or someone voices an opinion too loudly.

 

[thespyisdead]

all this PS4 vs Xbone shit has made me tired... fuck it, i will buy a pc.. when i have the money...

 

[Roxor]

I hope that this isn't the only thing they're going to do to try and get back in the public's good books.

It only seems like a grudging "Okay, okay! We've removed the DRM! Now find someone else to complain about for a change!"

 

[mdqp]

You can only buy Kindle books from Amazon. Kindle support some other formats, but certainly not all (for example Apple or Sony or Barnes & Noble ebooks won't work with Kindle).

I didn't know that, thanks for letting me know.

I can't expect all formats to play on it, but as long the market is split into multiple digital retailers, competion should be there, right? I mean, I assume it plays the most common formats, and that you can find books in such formats on a variety of websites, so it's not a real monopoly. Gaming consoles are naturally closed systems, so it's much easier to establish some form of heavy-handed control.

 

[Lightknight]

Yeah, but we already have useful words for that, such as "downloaded" or online." Thee's also the fact that downloaded games are also physically transported, so that's not a useful distinction. Electrons physically exist, even though you might not be able to see them or pick one up.

I like you, nice use of language, clear idea of how things work on the physical side. It's probably not worth the time posting, people around here have weird notions like digital means something is "intangible" and almost magical, it but suit yourself.

I've actually been seeing that a lot. I don't know why so many people think it's intangible when it's literally written on a disk in a digital format. It'd be like saying that a book written in braille is intangible since disks have actual physical pits that the lazer reads.

Hopefully none of my posts indicated that I thought digital means intangible. It's just a format and my previous post expressed that directly. The format being the use of numeric digits to transmit the information. Hence: Digital. In this case, it's 1's and 0's. And sometimes 2's if you're Bender having a nightmare. The only thing I said that may have been construed as digital meaning intangible is when I explained that "digital" is just a format rather than a thing. Digitial is a system or category of language. It is no more a thing than the English language is aside from being a set of rules and constraints. A digitally formatted thing, however, is a thing. A disk with the appropriate pits has physical characteristics and even though HDDs use magnetic polarization, we're still talking about natural properties of physical objects.

Here, in the context of Jim's video it's merely shorthand for digital download. It is used in contrast of a recording maintained on a physical disk that may be transported readily from place to place.

Side note regarding your name. Do you think the Christian Bible should adopt calling the Hebrew Bible the Takhan due to its switching of the Nevui'im and Kethuvim? I've always found it a bit unusual to hear them calling it the Tanakh when the ordering of the acronym is specific to the order of the Hebrew Bible's sections.

 

[MB202]

Well, all I can say is, now I might just consider buying an Xbox One... Eventually.

 

[Ghored]

Microsoft: *announces DRM on Xbox One*

EVERYONE WILL REMEMBER THAT.


Microsoft: *removes it later*

EVERYONE STILL REMEMBERS THAT.




OT: Well Done with the urgency of the episode btw.

EDIT: Whoa I just read this entire page and feel like I got smarter somehow