medv4380 said:
A lot of people didn't think they'd mess up an Animated Batman movie, or The Killing Joke. Before I put any faith in WB or Joss, I want to know more about what they intend to do. Are they going to double down on the weird mistakes of The Killing Joke? Are they going to screw it up like Cat Woman?
I very much doubt Whedon would agree to do the film if some of The Killing Joke's creepier elements were at all involved. If they're going to allow him to write as well as direct, then you shouldn't have much to worry about on that front.
Though yeah, more details are obviously required. This is early in the whole process, to say the least. If Snyder has a 'story [interference]' credit, then colour me concerned.
As bad as BvS is to many it was at least a spectacle to observe. It didn't damage the characters any more than was expected.
How is presenting possibly the most idiotic Batman ever put to the bigscreen (at least going from the '89 version) not damaging the character more than expected? And yeah, it was a spectacle; a painful, awkward, weird, tonal shitfest... Granted it's given everyone years worth of quizzical analysis and/or mockery, but at the time it was just uncomfortable to experience.
Some wondered whether they 'broke the Bat' (depicting him as a murderous idiot) and how could they come back, but by the looks of the Justice League trailer, ignoring BvS's mischaracterisations seems to be their way of resolving it all.
At least a bad Batgirl movie can only really burn a potential Bat Girl franchise like Cat Woman did. It's not as dangerous as a bad Wonder Woman would be. If they screw up WW Batgirl has no hope.
I don't see how that's the case. The entire DCEU's been a wayward disaster from the moment it kinda-sorta-began, and they're still barreling ahead. Wonder Woman being a bit of a dud won't impact a film two or three years later.
KissingSunlight said:
I thought Angel TV series was dark and gritty for most of it's run.
It's also worth noting Buffy got pretty bleak in the last two seasons (existential crisis, destructive sadomasochism, attempted rape, that sort of thing), and Dollhouse was seriously twisted and disturbing at times. Though if audio commentaries are to be believed, a lot of Buffy's latter season freakiness was perhaps down to Marti Noxon, not Joss.
thenewguy512739 said:
Oh, the jab was at Joss Wheadon himself; he's great with ensemble casts, but I find his style very irritating. Case in point: "Avengers: Age of Ultron". The whole movie is just filled with quips and one-liners, especially during the action set-pieces (do you really need to discuss weapon maintenance while fighting the guy with the doomsday device?!); it makes for quite a bumpy ride.
I do feel the Russo brothers have provided the best entries in the MCU so far, in every sense but on this note regarding the use of humour (I loved Doctor Strange, but that had a couple of jokey moments that could've been taken out or just tweaked. not the cape dabbing away his tears, though, that was awesome... ).
That said I'm a huge Whedon fan so clearly I never mind his tone. The Avengers had its fair share of quips and one-liners, and Disney/Marvel Studios probably weren't likely to try to pull him back from that in a follow-up. And if they had, who knows what else he'd have made far straighter (the Hawkeye speech to Wanda comes to mind, which was a great little moment). Age Of Ultron's still a good film, though, and the Vision/Ultron scene at the end is genuinely beautiful.
I'm not familiar enough with any iteration of Batgirl to guess at how he'll likely approach the character in terms of tone. You'd don't hire Joss to do the grimdark adolescent BS the DCEU's thus far peddled, though, and clearly from the looks of the Justice League trailer and even Wonder Woman, they've 'course corrected', let's call it, to already be closer in line to his tone than Snyder's.
