JRPGs and having to read things.

[badgersprite]

Actually, I also think that part of the reason they do it is to avoid dragging the whole game down with cutscenes. Because of the format of JRPGs and how they tend to work, there's a lot of dialogue that's delivered in a very traditional, straightforward way that's outside of gameplay. So, basically, unless the JRPG finds a way to start delivering dialogue and exposition outside of cutscenes, it's quicker and easier for me to just read what those characters are saying than to have to watch a movie every five seconds.

In short, I would actually prefer video games going back to using text more as opposed to, say, being FFXIII.

 

[Miyenne]

Growing up with the NES and SNES and then Playstation One, I kind of prefer reading. I think my sister posted earlier in this thread, but we were very young when we played. We lapped it up. Our mother played RPGs and we even got into more intensive games ourselves and I know for a fact it expanded our vocabularies and enhanced our reading comprehension. I learned a lot from games.

And the more you read, the better you are at forming proper sentences, using correct grammar and spellings. Which I think many people this day and age need a lot more of. Because when I hold conversations with people I usually end up wanting to punch them in the face. English is your primary language, the least you could do is speak and write it properly! Yes, I am that person who texts in full sentences with all proper punctuation.

And when there's voice acting I always have the subtitles on anyways just in case I miss something. Which ends up driving me mad as I read very quickly so I end up reading the whole speech before the actor's even a few words in.

And the tl;dr complaint about a fucking video game? Are you serious? I can't even handle this. I'll stop before I get myself banned.

 

[Captain Sunshine]

I prefer to read dialog, rather than hear it, especially oddly written dialog which jrpgs have in spades. You can't honestly tell me this scene would be more painful being just read as opposed to fully voiced.

Hate to come in late on this but yeah, this is cringe comedy. Of course it sounds painful. The context for it is a lovely bit of character development. Tidus and Yuna are starting a new friendship and both are learning how to cope with exceptionally heavy burdens. Tidus had suggested to Yuna earlier to 'just scream' when fed up, and she was trying to get him to try laughing instead, so he takes the mick by doing that, they both end up genuinely laughing over how stupid and cringey the moment is, grow closer and the reactions of the others are just 'You guys, seriously, stop laughing now'. It's great.

Having said that, you've probably played the game or know all this so sorry in that case =P but I see that video ALL THE TIME used as an example of bad voice-acting when it's really not fair, since both voice actors do a phenomenal job throughout the rest of the game and that scene's actually very funny and yes, cringey. But it's like Mr. T or Boris Johnson; you know it's intentional, that makes it funnier. And if cringing puts you off that bad, that's fine and I'll shut up for being silly about opinions, because I sure as hell couldn't stand the likes of Inbetweeners for being so cringe-horrible when watching that first.

On point, yeah the production value for these games can skyrocket with voice acting costs. JRPGs have hundreds of hours of dialogue already, with cutscenes, battle shouts, sidequests, random grunts and noises for minigames, and so it makes a lot of sense to spare a bit of money when possible. It's not just the actors you have to pay, but all the recording studio time and the script folk who have to walk them through the scene.. it's time-consuming too, very time-consuming if not done completely stream-lined.

 

[-Dragmire-]

Bad VAs slaughter immersion and good VAs are very expensive and can impact the quantity of content due to budget.

... I'd rather have the text bubbles.

 

[ItouKaiji]

That doesn't mean its not still painful as hell to listen to.

Haha yeah but it was their first time doing VA in a FF game. And it sure beats Lightning's monotone voice.

That doesn't make it any less painful or awkward to listen to though. That whole scene is just a cringe inducing example of something that might have been a little charming in my head if I'd just read it, but with the voices I can't watch it without wincing.

But how would an intentionally bad laugh translate into text?

With all this talk about context it would be pretty easy to convey that it's a fake or phony laugh. They usually show drawings with the characters when they do the text and the characters do change expression or put some typical emotes to go with the characters. So they could show Tidus looking pained or show other characters WTF is he doing reactions and you'd kind of get it from there, or if you wanted to throw subtlety out of the window and add a line of dialogue like that is the worst laugh I ever heard. Anything is better than actually hearing the terrible voices in that scene. And while yes, it's supposed to sound bad...the rest of the dialogue isn't and it's poorly delivered. Yeah, you can say give them a break because it's the first Final Fantasy game with voice acting....but it's an example of fixing something that wasn't broken to begin with. FF has been able to tell better stories than any of the recent games with just text.

In the end it's just a matter of taste. To be honest it wouldn't have mattered much what they did with FFX because the game play was awesome, but the plot was not, it was a bad story and the voice acting hurt it but it wasn't the real problem.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

Hanako's route or GTFO. She's so cute!

I'll take Lilly's route and still not gtfo.

Hey, I love FFX as much as the next guy, but being intentionally horrible is still HORRIBLE.

Not really. It was supposed to be like that. Intentionally horrible is only horrible if it went horribly wrong and missed the mark.

It could be me, but the laughing scene didn't bother me in the slightest. I knew the laughter was forced and it sounded great for what it was supposed to be. I don't see what the problem is.

I have nothing further to add other than reading in a JRPG doesn't bother me in the slightest.

 

[Altorin]

I've recently started playing Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch. I'm about fifteen or so hours into it and am loving the balls out of the game so far. I know some didn't, but each to their own. However, there is one thing that is constantly annoying me, and that is the lack of voice acting in the game. The main characters have dedicated voice actors, one of which is Scottish and funny as all hell. But for a majority of the game, they only speak through dialogue boxes. This seems to be a somewhat common thing in JRPGs. I understand why it was so back in the day, when we didn't want Final Fantasy 7 to cover more than fifteen discs. But nowadays, where we easily have the technology (We can rebuild him!) and the ability, why am I being forced to read these dialogue boxes when you already have an actor on hand to read the lines out, and do more than a couple of hours of work? I get rather bothered when I'm reading some dude tell me what seems some rather important stuff and there is no voice nor even any music at times (To set the atmosphere?).

TL;DR: In this day and age, why are there full games on console that don't have full voice work, and why does it seem to mainly be JRPGs?

in Ni No Kuni, nothing said in the dialogue boxes except for quest information is important to read unless you feel like it. You're not going to miss some sublimely important piece of advice that you can't get again by talking to the person again, and anything important is in easy to read red writing. Everything that's important is voiced. Or, pretty much.

short answer, to your question though is voice-work is expensive, and actually, the voice acting in Ni No Kuni is about the worst thing I've ever seen in my whole life. The actors are all children who couldn't act, all of the dialogue is performed as if each actor were in a separate room and reading their lines individually without any impact from the people they are supposedly conversing with, their intonation is all over the map, and the lip syncing is absolutely atrocious. And none of it gets better in the Japanese audio. (which is probably another reason why they have less voice acting - having two complete audio tracks for what they HAVE voiced)

All that being said I really liked Ni No Kuni, but it felt more like an homage to the JRPG form, rather then a JRPG itself. Everything is spoonfed to you and except for the very final boss (no spoilers) I wasn't challenged in the slightest (although I did quit playing soon after beating said boss and didn't explore the "post game content")

I was COMPLETELY immersed for a while... I just wish there was even a slight bit of freedom.. the game teases you with about 20 spells which sound awesome, if it were, say an actual RPG, but then doesn't allow you to cast the spells. Many of the spells that you get only have a single quest-based application. One of them is stated in the lore of the game that it can only be cast once by any wizard yet it remains in your spell list.

The Wizard Companion is amazing though, and the immersive quality of having the game spoonfeed you things - not having to go outside of the game if you want to know pretty much anything - the companion will tell you instead of gamefaqs.. It's a sublime experience... I just wish it weren't so empty once that immersion starts to wear away.

 

[Sion_Barzahd]

Oh god, so much Tidus in the thread O___O *shudder* That alone should be enough to point out why not everything needs to be voice acted.

However its simple why we don't VA everything. Firstly, money. VA's are fairly expensive. Secondly, those sound files for all those people talking could be taking up storage space for faaaaar more interesting things. Thirdly, with no VA the voice isn't wrong. A poorly done bit of VA can ruin a scene. Finally, its good to read. Reading is an excellent skill you know!

Ok you could answer point #1 by saying that you could reuse VAs for multiple roles, and that'd be a good idea, if they weren't very similar sounding. Look at Fallout or Elder Scrolls; Their repeated use of the same B-cast of voice acting means that all the NPCs get pretty samey.

On a final note, i do feel a little saddened that someone over the age of ten even considers a bit of reading to be a bother in their entertainment, especially in a RPG of all things. Also from what i've seen Ni No Kuni isn't as text heavy as a lot of other JRPGs.

 

[Altorin]

Looking at this thread...

Anyone who complains about the quality of Final Fantasy X's voice acting has CLEARLY not played as many JRPGs as I have, including the game this thread was about.

Final Fantasy X (and really all the Final Fantasys, even the ones you hate) have TERRIFIC voice acting compared to the rest of the genre. JRPGs are RIDDLED with absolutely atrocious voice acting, and Final Fantasy X rises from the throng with Passable Voice Acting. C+.

I'd say Ni No Kuni is a D.

some others which I've forgotten the name of but they know what they are, F's. F's all around. When JRPGs do voicework, it's worse then the worst anime dubbing.

 

[annoyinglizardvoice]

Doesn't really worry me. I'd rather cash be spent on making a good game than hiring more voice-actors.

 

[WaysideMaze]

I'd rather have text boxes to be honest. My opinion can be summed up brilliant by this absolute gem of an article [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/7588-Voice-vs-Choice] written by Shamus Young a few years back.

I know it's kinda lazy just posting someone elses work, but it really is worth a read.

 

[scorptatious]

I barely ever post, but I want to point out something about Ni no Kuni. I played most of the DS game that was released in Japan a few years ago, but I quit that game when I discovered that the PS3 version in development would have most of the same story, just slightly extended. When the PS3 game was finally released, I was really disappointed with it.

Almost all of the animated scenes and voicework in the ps3 version were straight from the DS game. There was obviously space constraints on the DS for voice acting and video, but it seemed really lame that they didn't add more for the ps3.

Most likely, the Japanese voice acting and animation was finished 3 or 4 years ago in Japan, and rather than bring everyone back in the studio to record more stuff for the ps3 game, they just used text boxes instead. A few extra things were voiced, but instead of creating more animated scenes, they went for in-game CG instead. It feels like studio Ghibli quit contributing to the game post-DS release, leaving Level-5 to finish the ps3 game alone.

Anyway, it felt really lame to me that I was playing a ps3 game for a story which had been crippled by being released on the DS first. But maybe it was just playing through the long awkwardly paced opening for a second time that turned me off.

What I don't really get was...

Spoiler

Why add the whole White Witch thing anyway? The DS version from what I've seen didn't have the White Witch and Shadar was the main villain. It was kinda obvious that Shadar is supposed to be the main villain given how much he is related to Oliver and how climactic and symbolic the battle was (An evil version of Mitey?? AWESOME!) There's also the fact that after that sequence, there are no other animated cutscenes.

It sorta made the whole sequence with the White Witch after that sort of...well..tacked on. It was kinda obvious that the story in the original version of the game was supposed to end right after Nevermore. But for some reason, they needed to add a whole other villain who, by comparison, was kinda weak compared to Shadar.

I still think the game is quite good overall, but I think it would have been better if they took out the White Witch and everyone important to her story arc.

OT: Yeah, there probably could have been more voice acted sequences in the game. Particularly in that ONE scene.

But hey, voice acting is expensive work and the game is about 50-60 hours long. So I can't really complain.

 

[dagens24]

Voice acting killed Final Fantasy for me.

 

[RandV80]

Honestly, Ni No Kuni has far too many story segments that should have been voiced but aren't.

The game tries very hard to make you think you are playing a Studio Ghibli movie, and when a plot segment isn't voiced, that completely breaks the feeling.

I get the impression that the developer started running out of money near the middle of the game and became very selective of what segments to voice.

A good example of this working in reverse is Suikoden IV, especially when contrasting it to Suikoden III.

III had cartoony 3d graphics and zero voice acting, and was a great lengthy game (though some Suikoden fans complain about it because it mixed the formula up a bit). IV on the other hand they upgraded to more modern 3d graphics with voice acting for the story dialog, but there were signs of cutting major corners throughout the rest of the game and it ended up being a short cheap piece of shit.

So kind of depends on what your going for, but unless you're making a final fantasy I'd prefer most JRPG's to skimp on the voice acting and spend more on the game itself. Or at the very least, keep those American voice actors the hell away and let Europe do the dubbing. The voice acting for Xenoblade and The Last Story both turned out great because they let the Brits do it.

 

[the_retro_gamer]

Well for the amount of lines that are written in a JRPG, the development team/Publisher should be ready to fork over a ton of cash to pay for the voice actors. With text it is also easier to have more story than a fully voiced game. Besides a little reading won't hurt anyone.

 

[DementedSheep]

Voice acting costs a lot of money especially if its good voice acting or in a game with a lot of dialogue and different characters.
I don't have and issue with reading dialogue in a game although a voice dose add a lot personality to a character and to me makes them feel a bit more alive than just text. I think having dialogue that's important, introducing a character or when tone is important voiced and rest just text is the best solution.

It's one of the reasons I gave up on Okami so easily. The first hour or so is mainly reading with annoying gibberish being played with fuck all gameplay. I couldn't stand it.

I didn't mind that large amount of talking or having to read the text boxes but by god that gibberish was fucking annoying to listen too.

 

[Lilith]

In addition to the reasons people listed above (financial, time constraints, volume of exposition, etc), another reason JRPGs have no real desire to cut down on the amount of text is because in Japan, it's a really good way of helping kids develop their ability to read kanji. I went to university in Japan and even in their early twenties, many Japanese people who don't read very much forget so many kanji and have trouble reading more complex texts. Even newspapers are difficult to read. From a western perspective it's difficult for us to understand this sort of concept but as someone who has had to learn the language I have realised first hand how quickly we start to forget even more basic kanji unless we're exposed to them frequently.

When translated to English this isn't really much of an issue anymore. Personally though, I still like all the text. I can read it as quickly or as slowly as I wish and progress those scenes at my own pace. Plus, when I can't get original Japanese voice acting on a game I tend to find many of the English speaking voice actors to be very poor equivalents.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

In addition to the reasons people listed above (financial, time constraints, volume of exposition, etc), another reason JRPGs have no real desire to cut down on the amount of text is because in Japan, it's a really good way of helping kids develop their ability to read kanji. I went to university in Japan and even in their early twenties, many Japanese people who don't read very much forget so many kanji and have trouble reading more complex texts. Even newspapers are difficult to read. From a western perspective it's difficult for us to understand this sort of concept but as someone who has had to learn the language I have realised first hand how quickly we start to forget even more basic kanji unless we're exposed to them frequently.

When translated to English this isn't really much of an issue anymore. Personally though, I still like all the text. I can read it as quickly or as slowly as I wish and progress those scenes at my own pace. Plus, when I can't get original Japanese voice acting on a game I tend to find many of the English speaking voice actors to be very poor equivalents.

There is also the fact that we tend to read faster than the VAs speak the lines, so people tend to cut them off mid sentence anyway.