JRPG's : I don't get it !!

[SBoggart]

You know how the U.S. was really into glam and over-the-top weirdness in the eighties? You could go to work with three-foot-tall hair and moon boots and people would shoot glances that translate to something along the lines of "Lookin' good, man!"


....


That's Japan in a nutshell. They're like what the U.S. would have been if the trends and culture of the eighties were still around today. It's full of weirdness, high school clique fashions, and post-modernism- and isn't for everybody.

 

[The Black Adder]

Most of you are probably to young to remember all those AD&D RPG games that SSI put out in the late 80's. Those were real RPG games with a good story and they were actually a challenge. People may complain about the graphics and such but that's because you don't need an imagination to play Oblivion or Fable or Fallout 3.

 

[ElephantGuts]

I feel exactly the same as you, I despise JRPGs for the same reasons, namely the ridiculously emo and angst-y characters.

 

[Velocirapture07]

It seems the main difference (for the most part) is one of characterization. WRPG's tend to give you a blank slate of a protagonist to project yourself onto (choosing appearance, usually more choice in terms of actions) whereas JRPS's tend to give you a ready made character whose course of action is pretty linear. There is less projection as you are playing a character as opposed to creating one. Just my two cents though...

I find this interesting and slightly true. Never thought about this before, but it does seem to make sense. Char. creation is one of my favorite parts of an rpg....i dunno why.

 

[Enigmers]

The combat is pretty fun, and, if you don't get much freedom in terms of "what to do," you get freedom in terms of character classes and such. Turn-based JRPGs also tend to go for over-the-top visual special effects (like, for example, summons and limit breaks in some of the Final Fantasy games).

JRPGs also appeal to me because of all the damn content, it takes maybe 50 hours to beat some, and even then, there's so much shit to get that you're almost guaranteed to play it again another time (with some help from your trusty friend Gamefaqs.com)

 

[ElTigreNegro]

Rule #674 of The Escapist: "There are only two kinds of RPGs in the world: Japanese RPGs and "Western" RPGs, meaning all RPGs not made in Japan."

Rule #674-a of The Escapist: "The only JRPGs in existence are Final Fantasy VII, VIII, X, X-2 and XII. Japan has made no other RPGs at any time in history."

Rule #674-b of The Escapist: "The reason JRPGs lack variety is because the Japanese are a bunch of xenophobic dicks, not because the only JRPGs you've ever heard of are a few entries in one single franchise."

This, and it easily applies to this kind of topics in other forums.

Now, the topic creator is honestly looking for some debate, and not just trolling like other users have done. I can't blame you for having a negative experience with a couple of titles, but as others have pointed out, Final Fantasy is not the only RPG franchise running around in Japan. Not to mention that the whole "emo/androginous pretty boys with big swords" is something that just started with some of the recent entries of the franchise, and it's hardly present in all games of the genre over there.

Talking about broad statements, that 1up article someone posted here, while making some good points, seems to be jumping into the bandwagon of "japanese people are like this and this" just like that. Motion sickness? Maybe, and maybe not, most japanese players seem not interested in FPS, and not because of the camera. There is the possibility that they just...don't like them. As simple as that. I remember a poll from a japanese magazine where players said exactly that, motion sickness was never mentioned as an issue with the genre.
At the end, taste do plays a big role here, that and the kind of games you have been played trough the years. I have never been interested in FPS titles, or franchises like Tomb Raider, even while being surronded by them over here. Also, i do feel the "author" aspect is more present in Japan, and in a good sense, you are invited to interact with the world the designers created, and you will either like that or not. I don't mind playing a game where there is a fixed story, fixed characters and specific goals. If all this is well done why not? Once more, "linear" and "open" do not make or break the game, it's just the way the game is being presented. The real question is, will it be fun playing it?

On a side note, and somewhat ironic, two of the best stories i have seen to this day in videogames, Vagrant Story and Silent Hill, were made in Japan unfolding in very western settings. It's not that the characters acted like if they were from the east or west, or how they were dressed, they were just very well written. At the end of the day, a quality product is what it is no matter from which country or background it came.

 

[Powerman88]

This is a good thread (light America bashing aside). There really isn't much to add here that hasn't been said. I like that.

 

[SecretSmoke]

JRPG's are fun because you get a sense of progression. In Disgaea, for example, you get to level, rank up in the dark council, power up your items, learn new skills, etc. etc. It also seems like they always have some new twist to suck you into the game, whether it's junctioning GF's in FF VIII, or crafting that insanely lucky once-in-a-lifetime weapon in Star Ocean. Plus watching your max HP go from a lowly few hundred to 12000 or more over the course of Valkyrie Profile is pretty gratifying.

 

[Susan Arendt]

It's not called Dark Cloud 2 though, I think it's Dark Chronicle. Which is a sorry fact that the Japanese have been using the word "Chronicle" for RPG's even before it became kewl.

Well, I can't vouch for the rest of the world, but here in the states, it's called Dark Cloud 2.

 

[NXMT]

The appeal I think, is in the story telling. I used to play plenty of JRPGs when I was younger but as I grew older, I lost patience with the constant need to grind and increasingly irritating art direction but JRPs have something that most WRPGs lack.

Bonding.

Today, I avoid JRPs like the plague but I cannot forget my experience with the various characters you meet and spend the next 40 hours with. JRPGs as linear as they may be, excel at building a "team" experience full of memorable characters. WRPGs on the other hand, the focus is always on YOU. You the protagonist. Everything else is secondary. At the end of the day, I will remember all the Zell Dintch's and Aya Brea's more fondly than Mission Vao or JC Denton. WRPGs excel at crafting a better story with branching storylines but JRPGs are better at drawing you in.

And side note: before anyone says that JRPGs are always saddled with grind, allow me to rebut by saying ALL RPGs are saddled with grind. It's just called "power-leveling" in the West.

Thankfully, it's not always necessary to do so.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

They're both good with the only real problem for me being that with JRPGs, I always get close to the end and then they tend to have an overly difficult final boss and an overly long final dungeon and I end up looking at the ending online or buying a new one.

JRPGs that I have beaten:
Grandia, Star Ocean 3, Chrono Cross, SaGa Frontier, Eternal Sonata

JRPGs that I have played:
FF1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, X-2, and 12, Grandia 2, 3, and Xtreme, Tales of Phantasia, Destiny, the World, and Vesperia, Blue Dragon, Infinite Undiscovery, Lost Odyssey, Enchanted Arms, Chrono Trigger, TWEWY, Riviera, Legend of Dragoon, SaGa Frontier 2, Dark Cloud, Brave Story, and at least a dozen more

WRPGs beaten:
Mass Effect, Oblivion, KOTOR 2, Jade Empire, Fable 2

WRPGs played:
KOTOR, Fable, Morrowind, Fallout 3

 

[Valiance]

You know, I really wish people would stop saying JRPG when they really mean Final Fantasy. Have you ever played Dark Cloud 2? Koudelka? Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow? How about Skies of Arcadia? Disgaea? Hell, even Xenogears? The only things those games have in common are that they are RPGs, from Japan, and depending on your tastes, poorly voice acted. None of them look, play, or feel like Final Fantasy, yet they're all JRPGs.

And side note: before anyone says that JRPGs are always saddled with grind, allow me to rebut by saying ALL RPGs are saddled with grind. It's just called "power-leveling" in the West.


Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go "power-level" in Fallout 3.

I agree with you on everything except the last line. >.> Never had to power-level in that game at all. Besides, it's hardly comparable to something like Shining Force or Phantasy Star where it's an obvious linear path...

And power-leveling is not the same as grinding.

However, yes, there are much better "JRPGS" than FF. Much different, at least.

I just look at it as an RPG either way, doesn't matter where it comes from. Stereotyping the RPG genre into stuff like that is basically "does your character have crazy hair" and "does your character actually play differently based on his emotions" for a JRPG.

It's not fair to the genre at all.

 

[Doomhammer828]

There are multiple reasons that i like JRPG's. I like RPG's in general because i don't have a lot of money so i need more gaming bang for my buck and RPG's especially JRPG's have upwards of 80+ hours per game of one story run through. Another reason is that i personally enjoy the stories in most JRPG's (not a huge FF player mostly Shin Megami Tensei). Also my main source of JRPG entertainment is the Shin Megami Tensei series which from the games i've played at least also contain refrences to ancient mythologies which i know about and can sit there for hours more explaining their stories to my brother and sister. Also i don't know why but i seem to find repetitive turn-based combat fun.

 

[Calax]

Like people have stated before, JRPG's don't have a character creation system beyond the name becuase they can more easily tell a story that doesn't revolve around 1 or 2 plot devices that could happen to anyone (Are you the "chosen one?" Most WRPG's seem to think so).

WRPG's also (to me anyway) have a nasty habit of making it so you have to get deep into the minutia of the setting and crafting system to really get strong. Now I'm trying not to generalize to much, but most of my experience with WRPG's has been based around the Dungeons and Dragons/D20 rulesets. The D&D stuff usually turns me off after a while because mastering the combat system seems akin to working magic, I've got friends who put together Macros just to fight in stuff like Baldurs Gate. I don't even want to mention the amount of micro required in Neverwinter nights with anything that casts spells.

JRPG's are often easier to figure out off the bat (except for the possibility of FFXII) because you usually don't worry about more than 3 characters, and the three characters have the seperate skill/magic sets. Also the turn based combat lets you mull over what you want to do in the fight.

I'm not trying to dis WRPG's here I just find that JRPG's can often have a simpler control scheme and don't require you to get into everything so deep you can't see the surface. I'm not saying this is always true for each game (Mass Effect, and Jade Empire, buck the trend for WRPG's, on the flip side FFXII and Tactics require a RIDICULOUS amount of micro to work/operate smoothly).

I've had fun with some of the deeper WRPG's, like the Witcher, but I think thats mainly because I didn't have to go hither and yon to find the items necessary to craft stuff, I could just hit a vendor or pick them up over the course of the adventure.

 

[Zinras]

Personally, I like both genres. Like everything else, it has games I love and games I hate.

Although it's making a blanket statement, most of the JRPGs I've played (and the list is pretty long :|) have the most predictable stories of all time. It's usually something like this: Wake up somewhere, be presented to nearby people (usually includes your first party member and/or rival), do something mundane until the "mysterious" advesary shows up and ruins the day for everyone. Follow advesary, fail spectacularly, start adventure properly. Then you'll go on this 100% linear adventure with "surprises" such as your rival being evil, your best friend turning evil after spending the entire game dropping obvious hints, the "mysterious" advesary being your daddy, an evil guy turning good and so on.

I don't really have a problem with this as long as it is presented in a great way or there is a lot of stuff to do. It's just that when people say they are surprised by what happens in most of these games (there are a couple of exceptions), I just start to wonder if they've ever read a standard adventure book or played other games of the genre.

WRPGs are just as bad, though, but in a different way. They have a nasty tendency to make you TOO free, so you can complete the main storyline in a few hours or even minutes. I believe the speed record for Morrowind is something like 7 mins and 30 secs from start to finish. That way, the game tries to get the player to not focus on the main storyline which in a way is silly, since you'd expect the meat of the story and action to be there. Sidequests are called sidequests for a reason and people making games in our part of the world needs to remember that.. It's the extra mile you go to get awesome items but not something you really have to do. Games like Morrowind, FO3 and Oblivion switch this around, so you HAVE to go do these quests if you want anything out of the game.

There's also the issue of how some of the games make me level up. I've always hated Oblivion and Morrowind (loved both games overall, though) for making me go bash something for hours on end to be able to do any damage with my stuff.. Yes, it's more realistic but they've seriously overestimated how much time people have to do this, as soon as they get out of high school. Basically, if I don't want to fight Goblins and stay level 1 forever, I have to go out of my way to kill things, which is silly, since they should have made it viable to get a good few levels from the standard stuff (main story).

For people that don't like JRPGs or WRPGs, I think it has a lot to do with freedom. JRPGs have exactly 0 freedom in general.. You are playing a story being told TO you and not BY you, so you can do nothing to change it and just go from A to B to C and such. For me, it's usually the stuff inbetween that makes or breaks it, such as if you can craft your own weapons/items, more random items and special areas that'll challenge even high level guys with the best stuff in the universe. WRPGs do the exact opposite and think that ultimate freedom is the way to go, which can sometimes be horribly frustrating, due to the issues I mentioned. Basically, your work doesn't reward you all that much in a game like Oblivion because you can wade through it as level 1, meeting nothing stronger than a goblin and still get the same stuff a level 200 guy has.

Some sort of medium would probably make the ultimate RPG, so they should get cracking on a open world RPG with silly items, wildly varied style, xp rewards for quests, custom items and great story

 

[ElTigreNegro]

increasingly irritating art direction

This is something in which JRPGs will always win over me, the art direction. I love my games stylish and full of colors, i love going to towns that go from a tropical setting to an european-medieval look to a snowy town and so on. Chrono Cross, FFXII, Valkyria Chronicles and many others come to mind where the backgrounds were a joy just to watch, they were full of details and life.

On the other hand, most RPGs fom the west tend to look quite bland and generic, both in background and character design. The realistic look works and makes sense in a game like Metal Gear Solid, Parasite Eve, Resident Evil and so on. But in a fantasy game it makes no sense to me, why i would want it to look "realistic"? That would be just boring. The japanese character design don't bother me at all, and they don't draw everyone the same over there either, the characters from Vagrant Story do not look like the ones in Valkyria Chronicles at all, just to name one example. Hitoshi Sakimoto, Tetsuya Nomura, Yoshitaka Amano among other character designers all have different styles. Generic anime looks is neither my thing, but if it's well drawn i can live with it.

BTW, Japanese do like open games, maybe not that much as over here but they do like them. Otherwise, i don't think the Yakuza games would do all that well over there. Of course, you play as a japanese mobster going around in Japanese cities and so on (people liking games that happen in their hometowns should come as a surprise?) but the gameplay lets you wander around and do other stuff beyond the main quest.

 

[Donbett1974]

The inventor of tv was Philo T. Farnsworth 14yr. farmboy from Idaho in 1922 check out site http://www.videouniversity.com/farnhal.htm. Seeing that we're on a site about video games William Higinbotham was the inventor of the video game in 1958 a odd looking pong http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/history/higinbotham.asp so i don't know where you get you're info.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Remember kids: linear =/= bad