Judge in Rittenhouse case might be a tad biased.

Casual Shinji

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He has not been proved guilty yet. The term "victim" is, in the judge's opinion, unfairly prejudicial as it presupposes that a crime was committed. I think the term "decedent" is better
How then would the prosecution be able to make their case against Rittenhouse - which I assume is to get him convicted of a crime - if they're not allowed to refer in court to what he's done as a crime and the people who got killed as the victims of it? Not that I'm in any way a student of law, but would the defense then also not be allowed to refer to their client as 'innocent', seeing as Rittenhouse is not proven innocent yet either?
 
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CM156

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How then would the prosecution be able to make their case against Rittenhouse - which I assume is to get him convicted of a crime - if they're not allowed to refer in court to what he's done as a crime and the people who got killed as the victims of it? Not that I'm in any way a student of law, but would the defense then also not be allowed to refer to their client as 'innocent', seeing as Rittenhouse is not proven innocent yet either?
They're allowed to call the people who he killed "the decedents" or even "the people shot by the defendant".
The state is allowed to assert that a crime has been committed but cannot use language to try to get the jury to presuppose that a crime has been committed before they hear the evidence.
 

Agema

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Are you harmed when you get vaccinated...
Usually, yes. The fact you get benefits notwithstanding.

As for the rest, it is just a whole load of specious waffle to cover the fact that, as always, you enthusiastically say or make up whatever shit you need to argue that right-wing vigilantes are totally fine and justified whenever they decide to arbitrarily kill someone.

Cricket stick? I'm Irish and even I know that is wrong.
The stumps are sticks, and occasionally may be called "sticks". It's a bit like calling the hilt of a sword a "handle": it is a handle, that's not actually wrong. But it's unusual to do so and in many contexts might get you odd looks. Calling the bat a stick (I guess also technically true) is pretty much non-existent.

I believe that every time Rittenhouse shot someone that night that it was justified self-defense unless we get some new information that shows he threatened Rossenbaum.
My personal opinion is that when you intentionally go to a place where you know violence is high risk, for the purpose of engaging in activities likely to incite or contribute to violence, you merit no self-defence justification whatsoever. "Self-defence" in case of such behaviour is morally bankrupt and societally corrosive by condoning vigilanteism.
 

Adam Jensen

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How then would the prosecution be able to make their case against Rittenhouse - which I assume is to get him convicted of a crime - if they're not allowed to refer in court to what he's done as a crime and the people who got killed as the victims of it? Not that I'm in any way a student of law, but would the defense then also not be allowed to refer to their client as 'innocent', seeing as Rittenhouse is not proven innocent yet either?
This.
The prosecution's POV is that Rittenhouse is guilty and that the people he's killed are his victims. Not to mention that he's being tried for HOMICIDE. You can't have a homicide trial without a homicide victim.

The judge is so comically biased, he should be on trial with him as an accessory after the fact.

I really wonder if this imbecile Kyle Rittenhouse is smart enough to understand that one way or another his life is over? If he doesn't get convicted of double homicide, someone will kill him.
 
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Dreiko

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Usually, yes. The fact you get benefits notwithstanding.

As for the rest, it is just a whole load of specious waffle to cover the fact that, as always, you enthusiastically say or make up whatever shit you need to argue that right-wing vigilantes are totally fine and justified whenever they decide to arbitrarily kill someone.
If the damage is a prerequisite to those benefits, then it is not harm, but part of the totality that is a good which you are getting, part of the benefit. You can't divorce bits and pieces and single em out, it's all part of one act. If you get surgery which entails incisions be made, that is not the same as being just randomly stabbed. If you have to wear a cast to heal a broken arm, the loss of freedom of motion for the period of time the cast is on, while inconvenient, is not a violation of your rights. There's a million things which we do despite being unpleasant because they have a benefit that is worthwhile. Otherwise nobody would take bitter medicine or exercise or brush their teeth or a million other things. There are always sacrifices we make in order to get something worthwhile in exchange for them. You can't separate the two and look at them in a vacuum, divorced from their context. The damage caused in the pursuit of a benefit is not the same to harm caused because someone just wishes to harm someone else for no reason other than the harm itself.

Otherwise people would be able to sue dentists and doctors all the time for assault, merely for performing successful operations that require invasive techniques.
 

Adam Jensen

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It's actually really sad to see so many morons who think that what Kyle Rittenhouse did was somehow justified and self-defense. You cannot claim self-defense when you knowingly go to a protest with a loaded fuckin' weapon. That's not self-defense, that's premeditation. It's not rocket science for fuck sake. He went there hoping to kill his political opponents.
 
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Mister Mumbler

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So, while I understand not allowing the word 'victim', it is weird that they would then allow words like arsonist, and looter. This would be like if they couldn't call Rittenhouse 'the accused', but were still allowed to refer to him as 'the murderer'.
 
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CM156

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The judge is so comically biased, he should be on trial with him as an accessory after the fact.
One of the most absurd hyperbolic statements I've ever seen regarding a trial.
And that's saying something.

I really wonder if this imbecile Kyle Rittenhouse is smart enough to understand that one way or another his life is over? If he doesn't get convicted of double homicide, someone will kill him.
People said the same thing about George Zimmerman, and 8 years after trial he's still alive.
 
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Buyetyen

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Not vigilante justice, self-defense and answering the request for protection of vulnerable gas station owners. If you can show that there was real threat being posed by the aggressors, which the guy who initiated the shooting by firing in the air does, it more than meets any reasonable criteria to justify counter-attacking.
So vigilante justice.
 
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Specter Von Baren

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Usually, yes. The fact you get benefits notwithstanding.

As for the rest, it is just a whole load of specious waffle to cover the fact that, as always, you enthusiastically say or make up whatever shit you need to argue that right-wing vigilantes are totally fine and justified whenever they decide to arbitrarily kill someone.



The stumps are sticks, and occasionally may be called "sticks". It's a bit like calling the hilt of a sword a "handle": it is a handle, that's not actually wrong. But it's unusual to do so and in many contexts might get you odd looks. Calling the bat a stick (I guess also technically true) is pretty much non-existent.



My personal opinion is that when you intentionally go to a place where you know violence is high risk, for the purpose of engaging in activities likely to incite or contribute to violence, you merit no self-defence justification whatsoever. "Self-defence" in case of such behaviour is morally bankrupt and societally corrosive by condoning vigilanteism.
Except Rittenhouse did nothing to incite Rossenbaum to attack him. Rossenbaum himself was in fact trying to incite violence earlier that night by helping to push a burning dumpster into a gas station and taunting several other people with firearms to shoot him. We have had an eye witness since this happened that saw what happened before the videos of Rittenhouse being chased begin and he (A reporter) was talking with Rittenhouse before they saw Rossenbaum and some other people walking toward them. Rittenhouse then ran and Rosenbaum started chasing him.

In every instance, Rittenhouse was taking actions to get away and NOT fire his weapon. Every time he fired his weapon it was when he unable to retreat and the person was attempting to grab or attack him. In the case of Rosenbaum, he was trying to take Rittenhouse's gun and it was also after someone else fired shots in the air. The second time, he was attacked by the guy with the skateboard, who also tried to take his gun. The third time was after the guy with the pistol motioned as if he was going to back off, only to then lunge in with his pistol (Which he was also not legally supposed to have) in an attempt to shoot Rittenhouse. Right after that shot, you can see in the camera footage that some guy about to run up to Rittenhouse stops when he points his weapon at him, raises his hands, and backs away without further incident. His first actions after this was to walk up to the police and attempt to surrender himself to them.
 
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SilentPony

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Except Rittenhouse did nothing to incite Rossenbaum to attack him. Rossenbaum himself was in fact trying to incite violence earlier that night by helping to push a burning dumpster into a gas station and taunting several other people with firearms to shoot him. We have had an eye witness since this happened that saw what happened before the videos of Rittenhouse being chased begin and he (A reporter) was talking with Rittenhouse before they saw Rossenbaum and some other people walking toward them. Rittenhouse then ran and Rosenbaum started chasing him.

In every instance, Rittenhouse was taking actions to get away and NOT fire his weapon. Every time he fired his weapon it was when he unable to retreat and the person was attempting to grab or attack him. In the case of Rosenbaum, he was trying to take Rittenhouse's gun and it was also after someone else fired shots in the air. The second time, he was attacked by the guy with the skateboard, who also tried to take his gun. The third time was after the guy with the pistol motioned as if he was going to back off, only to then lunge in with his pistol (Which he was also not legally supposed to have) in an attempt to shoot Rittenhouse. Right after that shot, you can see in the camera footage that some guy about to run up to Rittenhouse stops when he points his weapon at him, raises his hands, and backs away without further incident. His first actions after this was to walk up to the police and attempt to surrender himself to them.
Rittenhouse didn't use his weapon. He was 17. He used the illegally burrowed weapon, after having illegally traveled over state lines, to be an unlicensed illegal private security guard for an random business. During the course of this illegal power fantasy, he murdered 3 people with someone else's gun.
 
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tstorm823

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People said the same thing about George Zimmerman, and 8 years after trial he's still alive.
You're making us all older by stating facts like that. I feel personally victimized by this.

Edit: Geez, that's when the trial ended. February is the 10th anniversary of the actual event. Ow.
 
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BrawlMan

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Like I said before Rittenhouse ain't innocent and did 1st degree murder. Anyone who believes other wise is a fool or don't give a rat's ass about the victims. Once again, for people constantly defending him of per-meditated murder, if that had been a relative of yours or someone you gave a shit about, you would not be on the defense for him right now. He is a domestic terrorist as I far as I am concerned and another wannabe "hero" or "patriot". Either way, his life is over.
 
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SilentPony

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Like I said before Rittenhouse ain't innocent and did 1st degree murder. Anyone who believes other wise is a fool or don't give a rat's ass about the victims. Once again, for people constantly defending him of per-meditated murder, if that had been a relative of yours or someone you gave a shit about, you would not be on the defense for him right now. He is a domestic terrorist as I far as I am concerned and another wannabe "hero" or "patriot". Either way, his life is over.
People keep forgetting it doesn't count as self defense if you've put yourself in a dangerous situation. He shouldn't have had a gun, he shouldn't have had live ammo, shouldn't have traveled over state lines with both, shouldn't have walked around with a loaded gun impersonating a security guard and giving people commands. Nothing he did that night was legal. At best he was an armed and dangerous unbalanced minor with violent tendencies, and he might be found insane. At worst, domestic terrorist openly and successfully murdering American citizens.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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No... um, no. Victim of poor circumstances? He went to a riot with a gun, he made the circumstance for himself. Like, I agree that if you take only the last 30 seconds before the gun fired, it's an easy case of self-defense, but you can't instigate violence and then plead self-defense, and going to a riot and walking the streets with a gun is pretty much making the circumstances happen.
Technically he was on the edge of town where the protest / riot was happening and he didn't bring the gun himself he was given it. He also wasn't walking the street but in the area of the business / lot
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Is that a legal definition or just your personal definition?
According to a quick google search.

The legal use of the term victim

a person directly and proximately harmed as a result of the commission of an offense for which restitution may be ordered including, in the case of an offense that involves as an element a scheme, conspiracy, or pattern of criminal activity, any person directly harmed by the defendant's criminal conduct in the course of the scheme
If through their own action they lead to their own injury then therefore restitution cannot be offered as they are responsible for the situations thus they cannot be the victims from a legal definition.

As the culpability of Kyle Rittenhouse is yet to be determined then the use of the term victim wouldn't be correct.
In my personal opinion, not legal opinion, this is the biggest tempest in a teapot I've seen the lay press cover about a court decision in quite a while. At least in regards to saying that you can't call the victims "victims." The only thing that made me raise an eyebrow is the judge allowing the defense to use the terms "arsonists" and "looters."
Because one side really really wants Kyle Rittenhouse made and example of because he's "On the wrong side of history" because he dared object to the righteous cleansing by fire being undertaken by the holy warriors who are of course "On the right side of history"