Judge in Rittenhouse case might be a tad biased.

[ObsidianJones]

Ok, I guess first thing is first.

I've been dealing with a few things in real space, and I haven't had the energy to just post for a bit. Not to mention that it's just been getting worse in here as time has progressed.

Next thing. I saw the tape, and I've taken fire arms courses. Unless I missed a video, Rittenhouse didn't draw first and threaten someone. Every action in that moment was reactionary. That meets the burden of self defense.

We can not jail for stupid decisions. It would be like saying to women who get drunk and lower their defenses every weekend that yeah, we're going to arrest the guy who did it, but we're going to take into account that you put yourself in harm's way and balance out his culpability. That shouldn't be done.

Yes, it's a very dumb idea to not know how to defend yourself, put yourself in a group of strangers who at least half of them are overpoweringly stronger than you, and then willingly take something that makes you slower and prone to bad decisions, let alone harming the ability to read situations. It's creating a dangerous situation.

But. You aren't creating the crime. The assaulter is the one who is doing that, no matter how hard or easy you make the situation.

Yes. A man would be alive today if Rittenhouse wasn't there with a gun. But Rittenhouse didn't seek out the individual to shoot him. A man made a decision to rush someone with a gun. Consequences regarding his life came from that.

And yes, it does sadden me that he is no longer with us. But I'm talking as a man who was a boy having to navigate the Bronx in the 90's. Latin Kings, Bloods, Crips, random groups of people trying to build their rep... I'm here today as a grown ass man because I walked through danger, not run towards it.

So, while I agree with the outcome, I can loathe what is bubbling up from this. There was never going to be a good outcome from this. Rittenhouse is found guilty, the fringe of the Right grows ever angrier and seeks to lash out more and the fringe of the Left gets more of a taste of the heady feeling of public sentiment swaying legal outcomes. With this... GOP politicians are falling over themselves to try to lash themselves to Rittenhouse's star. Internship after Internship for legitimately nothing. He was found not guilty for not intentionally murdering someone, but he DID kill someone. He's shown no political acumen, no real intelligence, and nothing of worth other than a symbol that the Right really covets. THAT'S not political?

And the Left want to punish him for being stupid. If there wasn't that really, really stupid exception to WI's gun laws, they would have a point. But it's there. It's not like Rittenhouse even knew about it. He just grabbed the gun and went a'running. Remember, it wasn't Rittenhouse who told his defense that he took his gun knowing that he was allowed, but his defense team had to search and find an obscure law that they presented to get the Gun part thrown up. Rittenhouse isn't a stand-up guy. He lucked into a defense.

People want to rush to convict this kid or absolve this kid due to their political leanings. Whether it's Gun Control, Far Right, Far Left, BLM, Anti-Woke, Stance of Vigilantism... whatever. It's all political. He's a dumb kid that listened to some stuff, figured he should do something, and created a situation where he had to defend himself from another dumb kid that listened to some stuff, figured he should do something, and made a decision that cost him his life.

He will become a Demigod to some, and a Devil to others. He is now another Fracture Point for this Nation. And he will profit from legal loopholes and taking another person's life, even if it was self defense. This whole trial meant only one thing: American Unity was just going to be dealt another loss.

So, this is the last thing.

I've been frankly depressed lately. It's going to be another six months before I can actually go to pilot school. More time in this country. Coming to these forums sadly actually focuses what I hate about still being an American. This Thread is everything I dread about each day being here. I don't think Canada is going to be all sunshine and rainbows, but I will not feel the disappointment that I do with an adoptive Country as I do with my native one.

Simply because I bought in.

I really used to think "U.S.A." was a chant of power. I felt hyped up. I wanted to be a marine (dad intercepted my recruiter call and that was the end of that). I wanted to be a cop (My ex-Sifu's father Kenneth Chamberlain Sr). I wanted to help. I wanted to serve. I think a lot of you know enough of my personality that you know that's on Brand.

But I'm just tired of all of this. Aren't all of you? There are a ton of police brutality situations that I'm not bringing up because I just don't see a point any more. A family just finally got some justice 4 years after the police killed their mentally ill family member. No one actually cares about the mistreatment of others. People just care about how it makes their side look.

I don't know how I can consider myself a conscionable human being while taking apart of this any more.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

And you consider their tactics successful? You advocate for repeating that part of history?

Not seeing any alternatives. The cops and the law were backing the Nazis even after the Nazis tried a coup.

What alternative you got, we go back to lauding the dapper young nazis?

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Not seeing any alternatives. The cops and the law were backing the Nazis even after the Nazis tried a coup.

What alternative you got, we go back to lauding the dapper young nazis?

Actually they weren't.

It's only thanks to a wealthy benefactor who was very well connected politically that they didn't get made illegal and all thrown in prison after the coup.

 

[gorfias]

The primary actual opposition to the Nazis was other people rioting against them. It was the militant wings of the SDP and KDP. The police were basically all supporters from day one. You know fuck all and are in absolutely no position to reference the events you are. Not to mention your Boomer-ass Facebook memes are both pathetic and key to the downfall of society. I genuinely don’t know how you’ve lived this long without accidentally swallowing your own tongue given the level of intelligence you regularly display.

I just try to stay vigilant in case someone tries to murder me and my family.
This trial was really always about one thing: punish people for resisting being put in ovens if that is what the government wants to do.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Ok, I guess first thing is first.

I've been dealing with a few things in real space, and I haven't had the energy to just post for a bit. Not to mention that it's just been getting worse in here as time has progressed.

Next thing. I saw the tape, and I've taken fire arms courses. Unless I missed a video, Rittenhouse didn't draw first and threaten someone. Every action in that moment was reactionary. That meets the burden of self defence.

The claim from the prosecution was Kyle pointed the gun at Rosenbaum first. The only evidence to support this was a blurry pixelated photo that the prosecution used and at one point ended up pointing to a person in the photo claiming it was Kyle when it was a different person to the one they'd claimed was Kyle earlier

And yes, it does sadden me that he is no longer with us. But I'm talking as a man who was a boy having to navigate the Bronx in the 90's. Latin Kings, Bloods, Crips, random groups of people trying to build their rep... I'm here today as a grown ass man because I walked through danger, not run towards it.

Honestly the two who are gone, the public might be safer for them being gone considering their histories.

So, while I agree with the outcome, I can loathe what is bubbling up from this. There was never going to be a good outcome from this. Rittenhouse is found guilty, the fringe of the Right grows ever angrier and seeks to lash out more and the fringe of the Left gets more of a taste of the heady feeling of public sentiment swaying legal outcomes. With this... GOP politicians are falling over themselves to try to lash themselves to Rittenhouse's star. Internship after Internship for legitimately nothing. He was found not guilty for not intentionally murdering someone, but he DID kill someone. He's shown no political acumen, no real intelligence, and nothing of worth other than a symbol that the Right really covets. THAT'S not political?

The thing is as some have been saying in here he may not have a choice. People literally are becoming more unhinged and so they will doggedly go after Kyle because they don't respect the justice system anymore because they think it should be something that just does what they want to make them feel good seemingly. It's like some new level of super entitlement that the worst thing in their life is some-one they don't know ending up with a verdict they don't like so not getting it is grounds for whatever.

And the Left want to punish him for being stupid. If there wasn't that really, really stupid exception to WI's gun laws, they would have a point. But it's there. It's not like Rittenhouse even knew about it. He just grabbed the gun and went a'running. Remember, it wasn't Rittenhouse who told his defense that he took his gun knowing that he was allowed, but his defense team had to search and find an obscure law that they presented to get the Gun part thrown up. Rittenhouse isn't a stand-up guy. He lucked into a defense.

I mean if he was 18 there would have been no question over the legality of the gun anyway so I think mostly that's not exactly some major point in this just a side thing people thought he could still be got by as some kind of minor consolidatory thing.

People want to rush to convict this kid or absolve this kid due to their political leanings. Whether it's Gun Control, Far Right, Far Left, BLM, Anti-Woke, Stance of Vigilantism... whatever. It's all political. He's a dumb kid that listened to some stuff, figured he should do something, and created a situation where he had to defend himself from another dumb kid that listened to some stuff, figured he should do something, and made a decision that cost him his life.

Kinda but all the people he shot were in their late 20's or 30s not exactly dumb kids anymore.

I don't know how I can consider myself a conscionable human being while taking apart of this any more.

The only way is to take part hoping people wake up and smell the coffee. I think for some this case, then learning the facts, seeing stuff on live court streams might have woken some people up to the rather awful political game going on. Hopefully enough to start making some kind of a dent in the us vs them narratives and take away some power from those pushing a "No neutral on a moving train" narrative.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I just try to stay vigilant in case someone tries to murder me and my family.
This trial was really always about one thing: punish people for resisting being put in ovens if that is what the government wants to do.

"The government" clearly didn't want this trial to happen.

 

[Revnak]

And you consider their tactics successful? You advocate for repeating that part of history?

They did better than the cops. The cops literally gave them Hitler. They also did better than the courts, which gave Hitler his most famous platform and then the time to write Mein Kampf and the press to market it to all of Europe.

I just try to stay vigilant in case someone like you tries to murder me and my family.
This trial was really always about one thing: punish people for resisting being put in ovens if that is what the government wants to do.

Gorf I am literally the least threatening human being alive please touch grass.

Actually they weren't.

It's only thanks to a wealthy benefactor who was very well connected politically that they didn't get made illegal and all thrown in prison after the coup.

It was repealed by the Chancellor of Bavaria. Hitler himself was only imprisoned for a handful of months and was nearly acquitted for taking multiple politicians hostage and demanding they put him in power at gun point. The judge sentenced him leniently because he viewed this to be an honorable act.

No the government didn’t “nearly” stop the Nazis. Fucking hell.

Edit: oh, the judge also could’ve deported Hitler but chose not to because he had a clearly German heart.

 

[gorfias]

"The government" clearly didn't want this trial to happen.

How do you figure? The prosecution, with all of that video evidence of self defense, existing gun laws that could have been reviewed but were not so that the court had to throw that charge out, brought this case anyway. The prosecutor, lied, withheld evidence, tampered with evidence, ignored the judges instructions when he could have submitted a motion for reconsideration, tried to violate the Defendant's right to remain silent. That is a hell of a lot of enthusiasm from a government officer who you write, did not want this trial to happen.
I hope he and his partner at a minimum, have their licenses suspended.

Gorf I am literally the least threatening human being alive please touch grass.

Did the Jews have a right to self defense during Kristallnacht or would that have been "joining the riot". Earlier, someone argued you forfeit the right to self defense if you join the riot. You appear to agree.

You individually may not be dangerous, but you appear to be backing ideas that can get me murdered.

 

[Eacaraxe]

He will become a Demigod to some, and a Devil to others. He is now another Fracture Point for this Nation. And he will profit from legal loopholes and taking another person's life, even if it was self defense. This whole trial meant only one thing: American Unity was just going to be dealt another loss.

Frankly, I don't consider it a "fracture point" except in a single, very narrow, context: yet another in a very long list of divide-and-conquer tactics by the people who actually run this country, against the other 99.9% who live in it. Major media outlets take their proscribed positions in the "controversy" because controversy doesn't just sell, it keeps the US public divided against itself over policy issues most of them agree on, and focused on minutiae which does little more than benefit the oligarchic status quo.

I made the same point in the George Floyd thread: inequities in the justice system stem from the same causative factors and benefit the same oligarchy, whether those inequities manifest as white versus nonwhite, rich versus poor, men versus women, heterosexual versus non-heterosexual. Some manifested inequities may be more obvious and with greater consequences than others, and therefore of nominally greater urgency to solve through public policy, and others may be outright denied. Targeting that aspect of it opposed to universal inequities makes a poor foundation for the popular solidarity-based movement it will take to overturn those inequities in sum...because so long as the root causes remain, inequities will simply resurface to take a newer form more amenable to consent fabrication.

 

[tstorm823]

They did better than the cops. The cops literally gave them Hitler. They also did better than the courts, which gave Hitler his most famous platform and then the time to write Mein Kampf and the press to market it to all of Europe.

Funny how all that happened, but it still required an election to put the Nazis in power, and the groups who decided the right strategy was meet the nazis with even greater violence managed to drive the votes to the nazis.

If you had any interest in the practical outcomes of your beliefs, you could quickly transform into one of the most sensible people here, but you never think for a moment "huh, these riots actually make people support vigilantism and defend police brutality more than if people hadn't rioted. Maybe we shouldn't riot if we don't want police brutality and vigilantism." Because in your mind, people violently rebelling against the things you dislike has inherent moral value regardless of being counterproductive.

 

[Revnak]

Did the Jews have a right to self defense during Kristallnacht or would that have been "joining the riot". Earlier, someone argued you forfeit the right to self defense if you join the riot. You appear to agree.

Oh it’s genuinely this bullshit isn’t it, PEOPLE HAD GUNS IN THE WEIMAR REPUBLIC. JEWS HAD GUNS. IT DID NOT SAVE THEM.

But to address the point here directly, rioting itself can be self-defense, so of course I’m not saying that I’m saying is if you are trying to counter a riot you are only actually doing so if you are also doing a riot. At that point the purpose of your riot becomes an element of your motive but even here we’re arguing in abstracts and practically my stance is that dumb kids shouldn’t carry guns in a riot to defend the local Applebee’s. There should be more riots with less guns at said riots. France burns all of Paris down every other year and it’s such a small matter that typically the firefighters help burn it down. We could do with more of that attitude.

You individually may not be dangerous, but you appear to be backing ideas that can get me murdered.

The dangerous idea that nobody should’ve died in Kenosha? Fuck, guilty I guess.

 

[Revnak]

Funny how all that happened, but it still required an election to put the Nazis in power, and the groups who decided the right strategy was meet the nazis with even greater violence managed to drive the votes to the nazis.

If you had any interest in the practical outcomes of your beliefs, you could quickly transform into one of the most sensible people here, but you never think for a moment "huh, these riots actually make people support vigilantism and defend police brutality more than if people hadn't rioted. Maybe we shouldn't riot if we don't want police brutality and vigilantism." Because in your mind, people violently rebelling against the things you dislike has inherent moral value regardless of being counterproductive.

Well the issue with them losing votes had a lot to do with them fighting one another because the SPD unleashed the Freikorps on the KPD and also the whole Great Depression thing, oh also there was that time France occupied a chunk of the country, yeah I imagine there was other stuff going on that hurt the respect of the SPD such as their supporting WWI but also negotiating the surrender that brought them into power which hurt them on both flanks, but yeah it took the goddamn worst economic crisis in the history of capitalism to undermine their popularity I imagine it was really the street militias they kept being the only party actively trying to ban that undermined them. On a side note, the more radical KPD gained support during the last few years despite police and government crackdowns for literally being Soviets agents and taking a stance of violent opposition to all other major parties.
Edit: also the KPD technically didn’t really recognize the Weimar Republic as being in any way legitimate which possibly hurt them a bit though that was true of several other political parties.

 

[gorfias]

if you are trying to counter a riot you are only actually doing so if you are also doing a riot.

That is neither the law, nor reality. Standing around with a rifle is not rioting.

 

[Revnak]

That is neither the law, nor reality. Standing around with a rifle is not rioting.

I wasn’t speaking with regard to the former, and I do not trust your familiarity with the latter. And it absolutely can be. A lot of rioting is “standing around with a weapon” that’s very normal actually.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Funny how all that happened, but it still required an election to put the Nazis in power, and the groups who decided the right strategy was meet the nazis with even greater violence managed to drive the votes to the nazis.

If you had any interest in the practical outcomes of your beliefs, you could quickly transform into one of the most sensible people here, but you never think for a moment "huh, these riots actually make people support vigilantism and defend police brutality more than if people hadn't rioted. Maybe we shouldn't riot if we don't want police brutality and vigilantism." Because in your mind, people violently rebelling against the things you dislike has inherent moral value regardless of being counterproductive.

Yes, because people actually took police brutality so seriously when there weren't riots. That's a definitely true thing that happened. The riots appeared out of nowhere and nothing and definitely wasn't the result of years of escalating and unpunished police violence

Name one time a fascist group collapsed without either A) getting its collective head caved in and/or B) committing an act of violence so bloody and blatant that the government was eventually shamed into actually doing something about it

 

[gorfias]

I wasn’t speaking with regard to the former, and I do not trust your familiarity with the latter. And it absolutely can be. A lot of rioting is “standing around with a weapon” that’s very normal actually.

I imagine that would not stick in court. And there are more precise ways of labeling Rittenhouse's actions: self defense.

 

[Revnak]

I imagine that would not stick in court. And there are more precise ways of labeling Rittenhouse's actions: self defense.

Hey I’m still not pivoting to discussing the particulars of a legal case you do not understand with you. That sounds torturous.

 

[gorfias]

From the Babylon Bee (kidding)

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Why would he even attack Kyle to begin with at that point? I posed this question earlier in the thread, but why do you think Kyle of all people was attacked that night, because he was white, going around playing "medic", or carrying around a loaded rifle?

Maybe Rossenbaum wanted to succeed in a second suicide attempt, maybe he thought Rittenhouse was "all talk" and wouldn't pull the trigger? There were other people with fucking rifles that night, Rossenbaum was seen ON VIDEO trying to provoke them and yelling, "Shoot me n#%^er!!!" so this idea that Rittenhouse is special in some way is ignoring blatant facts. Fact of the matter is, Rossenbaum took off his shirt and wrapped it around his head before he chased Rittenhouse, why did he do that? Again, why. did. he. do. that?! I implore everyone here to ask themselves that and use basic deduction as to why someone would cover their face before chasing someone they threatened earlier that night. Everything we know about Rossenbaum indicates nothing, absolutely fucking nothing, about him that would indicate he was some kind of civic minded person concerned about other people, of which, one fact is that he had anally raped young boys before, and had tried to commit suicide.

 

[Dreiko]

Ok, I guess first thing is first.

I've been dealing with a few things in real space, and I haven't had the energy to just post for a bit. Not to mention that it's just been getting worse in here as time has progressed.

Next thing. I saw the tape, and I've taken fire arms courses. Unless I missed a video, Rittenhouse didn't draw first and threaten someone. Every action in that moment was reactionary. That meets the burden of self defense.

We can not jail for stupid decisions. It would be like saying to women who get drunk and lower their defenses every weekend that yeah, we're going to arrest the guy who did it, but we're going to take into account that you put yourself in harm's way and balance out his culpability. That shouldn't be done.

Yes, it's a very dumb idea to not know how to defend yourself, put yourself in a group of strangers who at least half of them are overpoweringly stronger than you, and then willingly take something that makes you slower and prone to bad decisions, let alone harming the ability to read situations. It's creating a dangerous situation.

But. You aren't creating the crime. The assaulter is the one who is doing that, no matter how hard or easy you make the situation.

Yes. A man would be alive today if Rittenhouse wasn't there with a gun. But Rittenhouse didn't seek out the individual to shoot him. A man made a decision to rush someone with a gun. Consequences regarding his life came from that.

And yes, it does sadden me that he is no longer with us. But I'm talking as a man who was a boy having to navigate the Bronx in the 90's. Latin Kings, Bloods, Crips, random groups of people trying to build their rep... I'm here today as a grown ass man because I walked through danger, not run towards it.

So, while I agree with the outcome, I can loathe what is bubbling up from this. There was never going to be a good outcome from this. Rittenhouse is found guilty, the fringe of the Right grows ever angrier and seeks to lash out more and the fringe of the Left gets more of a taste of the heady feeling of public sentiment swaying legal outcomes. With this... GOP politicians are falling over themselves to try to lash themselves to Rittenhouse's star. Internship after Internship for legitimately nothing. He was found not guilty for not intentionally murdering someone, but he DID kill someone. He's shown no political acumen, no real intelligence, and nothing of worth other than a symbol that the Right really covets. THAT'S not political?

And the Left want to punish him for being stupid. If there wasn't that really, really stupid exception to WI's gun laws, they would have a point. But it's there. It's not like Rittenhouse even knew about it. He just grabbed the gun and went a'running. Remember, it wasn't Rittenhouse who told his defense that he took his gun knowing that he was allowed, but his defense team had to search and find an obscure law that they presented to get the Gun part thrown up. Rittenhouse isn't a stand-up guy. He lucked into a defense.

People want to rush to convict this kid or absolve this kid due to their political leanings. Whether it's Gun Control, Far Right, Far Left, BLM, Anti-Woke, Stance of Vigilantism... whatever. It's all political. He's a dumb kid that listened to some stuff, figured he should do something, and created a situation where he had to defend himself from another dumb kid that listened to some stuff, figured he should do something, and made a decision that cost him his life.

He will become a Demigod to some, and a Devil to others. He is now another Fracture Point for this Nation. And he will profit from legal loopholes and taking another person's life, even if it was self defense. This whole trial meant only one thing: American Unity was just going to be dealt another loss.

So, this is the last thing.

I've been frankly depressed lately. It's going to be another six months before I can actually go to pilot school. More time in this country. Coming to these forums sadly actually focuses what I hate about still being an American. This Thread is everything I dread about each day being here. I don't think Canada is going to be all sunshine and rainbows, but I will not feel the disappointment that I do with an adoptive Country as I do with my native one.

Simply because I bought in.

I really used to think "U.S.A." was a chant of power. I felt hyped up. I wanted to be a marine (dad intercepted my recruiter call and that was the end of that). I wanted to be a cop (My ex-Sifu's father Kenneth Chamberlain Sr). I wanted to help. I wanted to serve. I think a lot of you know enough of my personality that you know that's on Brand.

But I'm just tired of all of this. Aren't all of you? There are a ton of police brutality situations that I'm not bringing up because I just don't see a point any more. A family just finally got some justice 4 years after the police killed their mentally ill family member. No one actually cares about the mistreatment of others. People just care about how it makes their side look.

I don't know how I can consider myself a conscionable human being while taking apart of this any more.

The way I tackle it is by criticizing my own side only. That way I can't be accused of trying to support my side, and I only work towards improving it. I have no expectations out of the other side so to bother criticizing them is to put too much hope in them, but I think my side can do better.


Of course you often get bunched together with the other side if you do this, which is why most people choose the easy way out of just noping out like you're feeling like doing right now, which I mean, it's understandable, you don't wanna be a pariah, if not being cowardly and just supporting opinions they disagree with just because people from their side seem to hold em in great numbers.


I just think the trick is not putting your ego or your identity on any of this. You have to have something else. If your "thing" is life is being whatever political sort of category that a pollster counts and you don't have other things that overrule that for you and matter way more than that then you're missing the ball, and we have too many people whose identity is being a communist or woke or what have you, if not being their race or sexual preference. None of that stuff tells people anything about you as an individual, it's all artifice.