Judge in Rittenhouse case might be a tad biased.

[Dreiko]

The difference in treatment quite obviously makes it more likely that innocents will be more likely to go to jail if they're not white.

Then that's something to bring up when someone black is on trial. The only point to bringing it up here is to try to get more innocents convicted, not to help anyone.

Except Jacob Blake clearly gives several other reasons for why he believes Rittenhouse should've been convicted, and they all relate directly to his own actions. It's entirely false to say he doesn't care if there's guilt or not.

You could make that imo flimsy excuse before the verdict but now claiming that he knows better than the jury despite having listened to a fraction of the testimony and saying he is guilty despite being found not to be that is very much trying to just get someone innocent in jail. Even Biden said he's behind the ruling and he called the kid a white supremacist before lol.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

This is not artificially divisive because some extremists and political leaders interfered, it's intrinsically divisive because it strikes at competing visions for how society should function. On the one hand, unhappiness with perceived unfairness of militias taking the law into their own hands and police killing people with impunity, and on the other gun rights, self defence and the rights of civilians to impose social order themselves.

"It's just the law" is garbage. The exercise of the justice system should be neutral, but the statutes of a jurisdiction are definitely not. These statutes are made by politicians for political reasons to best represent the interests of their voters (and anyone who disagrees is expected to suck it up). The decision to let untrained 17-year-olds take lethal weapons into places they shouldn't be and end up shooting people is a political decision. It's not "facts", it's not "objectivity", it's the way some voters at some point wanted it and so was codified. It is perfectly reasonable for other voters to think that letting them do this is a crock of shit.

But the joke is the people who wanted to see Kyle go down were some of the defund the police lot and push for community policing and community groups to police their own communities. They are mostly the same people who happily gloss over the militia shootings in CHAZ or claim they were entirely valid......

It's not about consistency anymore that's the madness of the present politics. We saw democrats claiming they wouldn't trust the vaccine suddenly the day Joe Biden took office being "If you have any doubts over the vaccine you're literally supporting murder"

One of the dumbest arguments I've read and watched on the "news" is that he wouldn't have been acquitted if he was black. What kind of a justification for a conviction is that even? It's like they're admitting that they don't care if he is guilty or not and just wanna see him go to prison. Yes, black people being wrongfully convicted is bad. No, convicting Rittenhouse wouldn't right that wrong.

Social justice justification.
It's not about right or wrong, it's about balancing the cosmic scales to screw everyone over equally.
Men were shitty in the past? Women should be allowed an equal period of all being shitty to men because cosmic scale balance nonsense.

That's not the point of that argument. It is a perfectly valid point that defendants are treated differently depending on their ethnicity. And regardless of any argument one may want to make about this specific case, that is an injustice.

But the black CHAZ guards have never been tried to the best of my knowledge, they've not ever been taken to court. They shot two teenagers and said guards were grown men. So that's kinda showing a difference right there......

 

[Silvanus]

Then that's something to bring up when someone black is on trial. The only point to bringing it up here is to try to get more innocents convicted, not to help anyone.

Discrepancies in treatment can literally only be pointed out by referring to more than one data-point.

If someone says now isn't the time to bring it up, what they mean is they don't want it brought up at all. You'd be here arguing that it wasn't the "right time" regardless.

You could make that imo flimsy excuse before the verdict but now claiming that he knows better than the jury despite having listened to a fraction of the testimony and saying he is guilty despite being found not to be that is very much trying to just get someone innocent in jail. Even Biden said he's behind the ruling and he called the kid a white supremacist before lol.

You believe people shouldn't question the findings of a jury? That's a bizarre, quasi-authoritarian take, but ok.

 

[Silvanus]

But the black CHAZ guards have never been tried to the best of my knowledge, they've not ever been taken to court. They shot two teenagers and said guards were grown men. So that's kinda showing a difference right there......

Oddly enough, the police and courts are not as able to exercise control in an area in which they have no presence. Who woulda thunk?

 

[Chimpzy]

I wonder how right wing twitter is responding to this? Hypothetical question btw, because I already know how.

 

[Dreiko]

Discrepancies in treatment can literally only be pointed out by referring to more than one data-point.

If someone says now isn't the time to bring it up, what they mean is they don't want it brought up at all. You'd be here arguing that it wasn't the "right time" regardless.




You believe people shouldn't question the findings of a jury? That's a bizarre, quasi-authoritarian take, but ok.

I think the issue is not many trials with black defendants get similarly high profiles as this case did so it's hard to ever find the second data point. This remark is seemingly only ever made when it's about jailing more people and not freeing any of em. But yeah either way let us agree that in the future when you remark about a black innocent kid being charged with something he should get the Kyle treatment.


And no you can question the jury, but you have to provide more to back up your remarks if you wish to not sound ignorant in doing so. You still should be able to do it, but people equally as much should be able to call you dumb for choosing to do so. You know, speech and consequences etc. Nobody's talking about illegalizing questioning juries.

Oddly enough, the police and courts are not as able to exercise control in an area in which they have no presence. Who woulda thunk?

They weren't able to exercise much control in an area where they had presence either lol. I guess they have a switch and it goes from stand by to fuck shit up, no in-between.

 

[Piscian]

I wonder how right wing twitter is responding to this? Hypothetical question btw, because I already know how.

I don't anybody ever believed that Kyle is racist, just an insecure idiot teenager. That said I think if you accidentally sawed 3 peoples arms off in woodshop I wouldn't blame anyone for feeling uncomfortable about you attending a carpentry accident support group.

 

[Chimpzy]

I don't anybody ever believed that Kyle is racist, just an insecure idiot teenager. That said I think if you accidentally sawed 3 peoples arms off in woodshop I wouldn't blame anyone for feeling uncomfortable about you attending a carpentry accident support group.

I've already seen some responses and the "I"m not a racist" part is not the one a lot of people find egregious.

 

[Schadrach]

but his defense team had to search and find an obscure law that they presented to get the Gun part thrown up.

Agreed with everything you wrote but this. It's not an obscure law, it's literally that the crime they charged him with outright says it only applies in certain conditions, and none of those conditions apply. It's not like they pulled out some obscure century old bit of law that's never used, they literally just read the last subsection of the law he was charged with.

I think he was overcharged, and they might have got away with 2nd degree reckless, but that's not what they charged him with. 1st degree intentional was never going to fly for Rosenbaum and was doomed for Grosskreutz the moment he testified.

I think the prosecutor should lose his job over this, because he is painfully incompetent at it.

Oddly enough, the police and courts are not as able to exercise control in an area in which they have no presence. Who woulda thunk?

Remind me, why did the police have no presence in CHAZ again?

Also, nothing stops them from being charged after the fact, even if there was no police presence to stop them immediately. It's not like what happens in CHAZ stays in CHAZ and no longer could be considered the moment CHAZ ceased to be.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

I don't anybody ever believed that Kyle is racist, just an insecure idiot teenager. That said I think if you accidentally sawed 3 peoples arms off in woodshop I wouldn't blame anyone for feeling uncomfortable about you attending a carpentry accident support group.

I assume you last comment is in regard to black people being wary about Rittenhouse but I don't understand why they should if they know the facts of the case.

 

[Piscian]

I've already seen some responses and the "I"m not a racist" part is not the one a lot of people find egregious.

Havent watched, don't plan to. Would not give Fox that kind of oxygen. I'm a firm believer that there's a difference between racism and ignorant bigotry. Based on all the videos of Kyle fucking around during the protest, before the incident I don't think there's anything that could change my mind that he falls into the later category of yet another zoomer looking for a purpose and identity mixed in with a general ignorance of the world bestowed upon him by his environment. My joke was more a thought I had this morning that Kyle is probably going to spend the rest of his life with people just generally uncomfortable around him, like if I saw him at the range I'd go "mmm I'll just come back later". Its sad to think that he went out looking for positive attention and now he'll spend his life getting the opposite of what he was looking for.

 

[Chimpzy]

Havent watched, don't plan to. Would not give Fox that kind of oxygen. I'm a firm believer that there's a difference between racism and ignorant bigotry. Based on all the videos of Kyle fucking around during the protest, before the incident I don't think there's anything that could change my mind that he falls into the later category of yet another zoomer looking for a purpose and identity mixed in with a general ignorance of the world bestowed upon him by his environment. My joke was more a thought I had this morning that Kyle is probably going to spend the rest of his life with people just generally uncomfortable around him, like if I saw him at the range I'd go "mmm I'll just come back later". Its sad to think that he went out looking for positive attention and now he'll spend his life getting the opposite of what he was looking for.

Maybe, maybe not. Plenty people out there consider him a hero, so he could get all the positive attention he'll ever want doing the conservative talk show circuit, perhaps leverage that into a lucrative career as a pundit or perhaps politician. If he's smart enough to keep his mouth shut about supporting BLM, of course, assuming he said that because he wanted to, and not because his lawyers told him to.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

A good explanation of why this is going on can be found here

How Hatred Came To Dominate American Politics

To anyone following American politics, it’s not exactly news that Democrats and Republicans don’t like each other. Take what happened in the presidential debate…

fivethirtyeight.com

It's kinda funny how the diversity is preached but nobody seems to understand the point of why diversity is good. Diversity is good because you get different viewpoints and other people will bring up things that are in your blindspot. But the second somebody says something you don't agree with, their opinion ceases to matter.

It's a total load of bollocks thinking that this can be separated from politics though. The perception of just about everyone on this case is informed by their politics, or by a set of values that informs both their opinions on this and their politics, which amounts to the same thing.

This is not artificially divisive because some extremists and political leaders interfered, it's intrinsically divisive because it strikes at competing visions for how society should function. On the one hand, unhappiness with perceived unfairness of militias taking the law into their own hands and police killing people with impunity, and on the other gun rights, self defence and the rights of civilians to impose social order themselves.

"It's just the law" is garbage. The exercise of the justice system should be neutral, but the statutes of a jurisdiction are definitely not. These statutes are made by politicians for political reasons to best represent the interests of their voters (and anyone who disagrees is expected to suck it up). The decision to let untrained 17-year-olds take lethal weapons into places they shouldn't be and end up shooting people is a political decision. It's not "facts", it's not "objectivity", it's the way some voters at some point wanted it and so was codified. It is perfectly reasonable for other voters to think that letting them do this is a crock of shit.

The actual case and facts around it are apolitical. You can say gun, police, race issues went into the whole thing but those are completely separate discussions. Self-defense is not a political issue. You may not like a self-defense law but that has nothing to do with the case itself. Everyone that says the verdict is wrong can't separate those extraneous issues from the case. 12 people all unamimously came to the decision, it wasn't like 7 to 5 or something.

 

[Dreiko]

Maybe, maybe not. Plenty people out there consider him a hero, so he could get all the positive attention he'll ever want doing the conservative talk show circuit, perhaps leverage that into a lucrative career as a pundit or perhaps politician. If he's smart enough to keep his mouth shut about supporting BLM, of course, assuming he said that because he wanted to, and not because his lawyers told him to.

I may be cynical but I think him saying he supports BLM is just for optics and a planned tactic as opposed to a heartfelt statement, and I believe most people will be able to figure that out and so he's not gonna lose much if any support.

It's kinda funny how the diversity is preached but nobody seems to understand the point of why diversity is good. Diversity is good because you get different viewpoints and other people will bring up things that are in your blindspot. But the second somebody says something you don't agree with, their opinion ceases to matter.

Diversity is not actually about that though. Diversity is about purporting to be about promoting a plethora of viewpoints so that they can advance the agenda of specific interest groups, race groups, sexual identity groups and so on.


As long as the variety of viewpoints doesn't coincide with the benefit of those groups or if it goes against them they will toss diversity out of the window and move to equity or something else equally as hollow and malleable.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

I wonder how right wing twitter is responding to this? Hypothetical question btw, because I already know how.

I mean you can support the principal of BLM about police brutality issues etc but also acknowledge they really need to stop throwing support behind some not great people as examples of it or pushing for lots of stuff beyond just trying to deal with policing issues.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Oddly enough, the police and courts are not as able to exercise control in an area in which they have no presence. Who woulda thunk?

Ok so to add more to this because the argument was if Kyle were black the same wouldn't have happened to him

 

[Seanchaidh]

The actual case and facts around it are apolitical.

Nah.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Ok so to add more to this because the argument was if Kyle were black the same wouldn't have happened to him

Oh, is that the a guy whose girlfriend was killed by cops?

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Nah.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Oh, is that the a guy whose girlfriend was killed by cops?

yes, he also shot at police.....