Julian Assange is a prick.

[itsthesheppy]

Most of your reply was more banging on about conspiracy theories and, seriously, they are so dull that I'm not going to comment on them. Maybe it was the Illuminati. Maybe the Templars are trying to bring him down because he speaks truth to power and... yawn...

So in other words, you didn't have anything intelligent to add to what i had to say. That is what i thought.

Nice hyperboles though, but the Templars and Illuminati have nothing to do with this, so please keep your insane fantasies about what i believe or don't believe to yourself.

You know who are the worst people to act as objective judges on whether the justice system is fair? Criminals. Fugitives. I imagine if you were sitting next to someone who was fleeing from police in a high speech chase down the freeway, they would have some poignant insights about the fairness of law enforcement.

Actually, the worst people to do that are the people who have never experienced true injustice. People like you who is sitting safely behind their computer screen in some modern country saying that the justice system should just have it's go in the favor of truth.

It's not just job to trust it or not; that's for the people of Sweden. Given that he's Australian I imagine his input is not really sought in the matter. Last I checked he's not a legal scholar or a legislator. He's some guy who ran a website and is now fleeing from rape allegations.

No it's just as much for Assange as for everyone else to trust a system. For example, i have made it a point to myself never to travel to England and the United States because i trust neither of their states of their excessive laws in several respects. My advantage is that since i have never been in either of those countries, I'll never have to go there, while Assange unfortunately HAS been to Sweden. Be he still has just as much right to distrust the system as he likes.

And yes he is just a guy who ran a website and is now fleeing from rape allegations. But guess what: That still serves him better than trying to please the definitions of "coward" by some random internet hero. If i were in the situation, had the choice between fleeing or pleasing you, I'd likely give you the finger and be off.

Captcha: "June July" <--- Yes i KNOW the summer is almost over capcha, you don't have to rub it in!

He doesn't need to please me. He's got plenty of starry-eyed fans like yourself who would happily defend him from the mean ol' Swedish government and their mean ol' rape accusations. Police are always such a buzzkill, trying to arrest criminals.

By the way, at any point, please feel free to provide the evidence you have that the allegations are unfounded or that the prosecutor and Swedish courts involved are corrupt. In fact, don't show that evidence to me. Send it to the Swedish government or the world court, as I imagine they would be very interested to see it.

Unless you think the Illuminati will silence you. In which case you might need one of my mind control jamming devices. Try to walk under overhangs; it helps block the satellite rays.

Trololol.
Where you gonna say anything that makes sense or was that it?

Or am I making too much sense? They've got the cloth over your eyes, man. The cold war mind control satellite rays are in your head, man. You gotta fight their influence!

Check all of the food in your house for microchips. That's how they're able to get the nanites into your bloodstream.

 

[MiskWisk]

Okay, you go into these areas and spy on these groups and then post your findings on the internet along with your name and location and then tell me your fear for your personal safety does not increase while in areas like Afghanistan.

Well this isn't relevant, nor does it get us anywhere further. I guess our discussion is concluded.

Eh, I can agree to disagree.

 

[Athinira]

He doesn't need to please me. He's got plenty of starry-eyed fans like yourself who would happily defend him from the mean ol' Swedish government and their mean ol' rape accusations. Police are always such a buzzkill, trying to arrest criminals.

Just proves again that you can't read.

I'm not a Julian Assange fan. That doesn't mean i can't understand where he is coming from, and i don't blame him for trying to escape.

I don't have blame the Swedish government for trying to get a hold of him either though. I don't take sides in this case because i think the case stinks, and i don't trust either parties enough to actually conclude this case in the right way.

And this is why i take offense with people like you who sit behind their computer screens playing internet heroes and calling Assange a coward. You have decided already to trust the swedish government and therefore sides with them, even though their practices up to this point has been rather suspicious.

By the way, at any point, please feel free to provide the evidence you have that the allegations are unfounded or that the prosecutor and Swedish courts involved are corrupt. In fact, don't show that evidence to me. Send it to the Swedish government or the world court, as I imagine they would be very interested to see it.

We already have the cable-gate documents showing that the Swedish government has budged to pressure from the US before (which isn't necessarily corruption, but i consider it a blatant weakness). Assange is an enemy of the US who are VERY interested in getting a hold of him. I don't think he needs any more reason than that to fear extradition.

The problem here is that you never know until you go. If Assange surrendered tomorrow, and went to Sweden, then maybe everything he feared was false, and he wouldn't be extradited to the US. Hell, perhaps he would even be aquitted of the charges and walk off like a free man just as you predicted. Or maybe he won't.

But why take the chance?

Like you said yourself earlier: "I can't respect someone who is only brave when his skin isn't on the line". Well guess what: His skin is on the f*cking line! And if he got extradited to the US, then yes, that would indeed prove that something is completely wrong in Sweden. But at this point, this would be rather irrelevant to Assange who would be in US custody at that point, facing charges that might carry the death penalty. He couldn't carry less about corruption in Sweden at that point, because it would be too late. So again: Why take the chance?

Unless you think the Illuminati will silence you. In which case you might need one of my mind control jamming devices. Try to walk under overhangs; it helps block the satellite rays.

Try getting outside your door for a while and smell the roses

 

[m72_ar]

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what he does.

Good or bad, Right or wrong it's up for a debate

NOBODY likes a narc.
Try to snitch on a drug dealer/criminal you'll surely find yourself face down in a ditch or shallow grave.
And he's airing US govt dirty laundry and expect them not to fuck with him?

He should count himself lucky not to get whacked the first day it went live.
He can't be that dumb that he thinks the moment all of those stuff went live he'll be hailed as a hero and the big bad USA will give in right? What exactly his plan after it went live? Did he really think US will take this lying down?

 

[itsthesheppy]

We already have the cable-gate documents showing that the Swedish government has budged to pressure from the US before (which isn't necessarily corruption, but i consider it a blatant weakness). Assange is an enemy of the US who are VERY interested in getting a hold of him. I don't think he needs any more reason than that to fear extradition.

The problem here is that you never know until you go. If Assange surrendered tomorrow, and went to Sweden, then maybe everything he feared was false, and he wouldn't be extradited to the US. Hell, perhaps he would even be aquitted of the charges and walk off like a free man just as you predicted. Or maybe he won't.

But why take the chance?

Like you said yourself earlier: "I can't respect someone who is only brave when his skin isn't on the line". Well guess what: His skin is on the f*cking line! And if he got extradited to the US, then yes, that would indeed prove that something is completely wrong in Sweden. But at this point, this would be rather irrelevant to Assange who would be in US custody at that point, facing charges that might carry the death penalty. He couldn't carry less about corruption in Sweden at that point, because it would be too late. So again: Why take the chance?

To stand up for the truth, even if its risky. Because he's always banging on about honesty and transparency, so long as it has nothing to do with him having to own up to his own private dealings. And he's willing to throw in with a demonstrably shifty government like Ecuador if it serves his own ends.

As I've said many times, his fears of extradition to the US are immaterial to the rape accusations.

And you're behind a computer screen too, genius. What point are you trying to make with that? Do you live in New Hampshire? We can grab lunch sometime and I'll happily tell you in person that Assange is a coward. If he wants to come along I'll tell him to his smug little face. That's unlikely, though, and since this is an internet forum here the use of which is defined as posting on a computer screen, you may as well condemn me for using electricity too.

 

[Krantos]

I'm not going to throw my whole hat into this ring, but I am going to make this point:

"ignorance/disagreement with the law is no excuse for illegal action."

Maybe Sweden's rape laws are overly restrictive. Maybe not. Either way, they are what they are.

He's not being accused of rape in America, or the UK, or France, or Australia. He's being accused of it in Sweden. Thus, he must conform to Swedish standards for rape. Don't want to get charged for rape in Sweden? Don't go to fucking Sweden.

Saying that the rape laws are too restrictive is no excuse from him fleeing said charges. If he's fleeing because of fear of extradition to the US, that's something else. But don't try to use Sweden's laws as an excuse for what he's doing.

 

[Stu35]

Assange is to me a good man, he did not assult those two women and he founded a website which finds faults in those with bad business morals.

So you were there when it happened?



I will not speculate on whether or not Assange raped two women. What I will say, is that if he has been accused, and the Swedish courts believe there is enough cause to arrest and place him on trial for such things, then he should turn himself in to the Swedish government and face that trial.

He may well be innocent. I believe in innocent until proven guilty - I am disgusted by those who think he should be hidden away from the Swedes because they think it's political, and equally disgusted by those who are already condemning him for a crime he may not have committed.


Incidentally, for those who think that he is genuinely afraid to go to Sweden over fears of being extradited to the US, I suggest wrapping your eyes around this little linky. [http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2012/08/legal-myths-about-assange-extradition]It busts a few myths about the whole 'extradition' thing.


Edit - on a side note, and far more personal to me, as a Briton, one serving the government as it happens, I am pretty damned proud of the way our government has handled this. We managed to get Assanges sheep to raise a few sorely needed pounds sterling in Bail (which he aint getting back the bail skipping bastard that he is), and we've managed to find loopholes in diplomatic laws that are pretty much forcing Assange to hide out in his bedroom or face a swift kick in the bum on his way to face charges for, what I feel, is one of the worst crimes a human being can commit.

Also, we managed to piss off Ecuador, which is always good, given that South American governments, by and large, hate us.

 

[Sneezeburger]

You'd have to be really thick to not see that the whole sexual assault thing is a setup to prosecute him on the USA's soil.

This. Really. Can't pretend i know what really happened but since we're all chipping in thats my view.

Also http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/23/women-against-rape-julian-assange
Just popped up on my facebook wall.

 

[m72_ar]

Like you said yourself earlier: "I can't respect someone who is only brave when his skin isn't on the line". Well guess what: His skin is on the f*cking line! And if he got extradited to the US, then yes, that would indeed prove that something is completely wrong in Sweden. But at this point, this would be rather irrelevant to Assange who would be in US custody at that point, facing charges that might carry the death penalty. He couldn't carry less about corruption in Sweden at that point, because it would be too late. So again: Why take the chance?

You're telling me he doesn't know his ass is grass the moment he publish those cables?

If he truly believes in his cause, he'll deal with the consequence no matter what even if it will cost him his life

OR you know he can release all those cables anonymously on 4chan, he's supposed to a l33t hax0r, pretty sure he can pull that off. But no gotta get his name on the newspaper

 

[blipblop]

I´m sorry but he is totaly hyperboiling the idea that he will be sent of to USA from sweden. and it´s not a case of a broken condom is considerd rape in sweded and people who makes these comments are acting a little dickish against females that has been raped. in sweden we take equality quite serius and if someone forces themself upon anyone at any time even if there married or whatever it´s still considerd rape. I guess he will be draged back at swededn kicking and screaming go to court and be set free from lack of evidence like these cases usualy plays out than he can do whatever the fuck he wants.
and all the tinfoilhat nutcases that thinks Anna Ardin works as a spy for CIA makes me laugh she is a extrem leftwing socialist that probably would made a career in the socialist party if it wasent for all this media attention and now she probably has fuckt up alot of political suport in the party and in the public so yeah it´s safe to say she aint gaining shit from this..

 

[Stu35]

You'd have to be really thick to not see that the whole sexual assault thing is a setup to prosecute him on the USA's soil.

This. Really. Can't pretend i know what really happened but since we're all chipping in thats my view.

Also http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/23/women-against-rape-julian-assange
Just popped up on my facebook wall.

I'd argue you'd have to be really thick to argue that this whole thing is just a set up to prosecute him on US soil. It's a smokescreen he's using to avoid facing trial for a crime he may, or may not, have committed.

I honestly weep that so many people would rather believe this is some kind of American Government conspiracy than simply face the possibility that there is a man who does not want to stand trial for rape.

As for the Guardian article (source says it all really), it's very easy to point out that the 'zeal' with which he is being perused is as much his own doing as anybodies - he's the celebrity who decided to skip bail and hide out in an embassy, it'd just be irresponsible for the UK government not to respond.

Oh... and I loved this bit from the Guardian article:

Whether or not Assange is guilty of sexual violence, we do not believe that is why he is being pursued. Once again women's fury and frustration at the prevalence of rape and other violence, is being used by politicians to advance their own purposes.

So, these women are against rape, but they're more okay with rape than the idea of a government prosecuting a rapist for their own selfish needs?

Cutting ones nose off to spite ones face?




For fucks sake... Assange would rather throw his hat in with Ecuador, one of the most corrupt, opaque(as opposed to the 'transparency' that Assange has crusaded for so vehemently) countries on the planet. Not to mention that, for somebody who demands that there be no secrets amongst western governments (even when to reveal said secrets poses direct threat to human life), he's hardly practising what he preaches is he?

 

[delete101]

It seems to me that a lot of people are missing the point regarding the charges against Assange - whether or not you see the charges as relevant or not doesn't matter.

The bottomline is this; Julian Assange is charged with rape under the Swedish definition of what such an act entails (Sweden might have a more encompassing definition than other countries, which I really have to struggle to see as a bad thing...). Thusly, when within the borders of Sweden, he is legally obliged to follow Swedish law. The charges brought against him indicates that maybe he hasn't, therefore he has to submit to the judicial system of Sweden and be tried in court. Why should he be exempt from that?

Lastly, one should keep in mind that Sweden has one of the least corrupt and politically affilicated justice systems in the world - placing at nr. 4 at Transparency Internationals Corruption Index*. Ecuador by comparison places at nr. 120. Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that Swedish law expressly states that extradition will not take place if the charges connected with said extradition are political or military in nature or if the charges are not criminal in Sweden. Add the fact that this case is extremely high-profile, making the risk of foul play unlikely.

*Source: http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/

 

[blipblop]

It seems to me that a lot of people are missing the point regarding the charges against Assange - whether or not you see the charges as relevant or not doesn't matter.

The bottomline is this; Julian Assange is charged with rape under the Swedish definition of what such an act entails (Sweden might have a more encompassing definition than other countries, which I really have to struggle to see as a bad thing...). Thusly, when within the borders of Sweden, he is legally obliged to follow Swedish law. The charges brought against him indicates that maybe he hasn't, therefore he has to submit to the judicial system of Sweden and be tried in court. Why should he be exempt from that?

Lastly, one should keep in mind that Sweden has one of the least corrupt and politically affilicated justice systems in the world - placing at nr. 4 at Transparency Internationals Corruption Index*. Ecuador by comparison places at nr. 120. Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that Swedish law expressly states that extradition will not take place if the charges connected with said extradition are political or military in nature or if the charges are not criminal in Sweden. Add the fact that this case is extremely high-profile, making the risk of foul play unlikely.

*Source: http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/

fianly someone who gets the point

 

[Athinira]

To stand up for the truth, even if its risky. Because he's always banging on about honesty and transparency, so long as it has nothing to do with him having to own up to his own private dealings. And he's willing to throw in with a demonstrably shifty government like Ecuador if it serves his own ends.

What part of "Truth is irrelevant" didn't you get earlier? The justice system doesn't serve truth, the justice system uses truth as a tool to serve LAWS. Assange isn't facing up truth, he is facing up laws in a legal system that is historically known to have excessive laws in the department he is facing, plus he stands to face up to it in a country that has (secretly) bowed down to the US before.

Again, it's easy to play an internet hero when your own ass isn't on the line.

Fact of the matter is, Assange believes that his work for transparency and honesty is best continued by his current course of action.

As I've said many times, his fears of extradition to the US are immaterial to the rape accusations.

And that is just plain and utter bull if you ask me. So here we will have to disagree.

I personally believe that while the extradition theory is UNLIKELY to happen (although I'm sure the US will try), i still stand by my earlier point: No reason for him to take the chance.

And you're behind a computer screen too, genius. What point are you trying to make with that?

Difference is that i don't go around calling people cowards and tell them to take risks i believe they should take. You go around rafting up about how Assange should "stand up to truth" and willingly go to court in a system he doesn't trust. An easy thing to say behind a computer screen, but if your own ass one day happens to be in a similar situation, i bet you would start thinking less like an internet hero and more like Assange does )

Do you live in New Hampshire? We can grab lunch sometime and I'll happily tell you in person that Assange is a coward. If he wants to come along I'll tell him to his smug little face. That's unlikely, though, and since this is an internet forum here the use of which is defined as posting on a computer screen, you may as well condemn me for using electricity too.

The "internet hero" has nothing to do with meeting in real life. It's a metaphor for "Until you are in the same situation". You might be fine with calling Assange a coward to his face, but as mentioned, if you should ever find yourself in a situation where you believe that injustice is about to be done to you (by the "justice system"), you'd do a 180.

 

[itsthesheppy]

-snip-

Oh how dull. You don't think I'm deserving of my opinion of the guy because I havn't been in the same position as him. [footnote]Or you assume I would do a thing based on your complete vacuum of any knowledge about me or my character.[/footnote] By that logic none of us should have opinions about anyone. Talk about a snoozefest. I'm more or less finished with you because talking to you is dreadfully boring, but I'd like to draw your attention to this gentleman:

It seems to me that a lot of people are missing the point regarding the charges against Assange - whether or not you see the charges as relevant or not doesn't matter.

The bottomline is this; Julian Assange is charged with rape under the Swedish definition of what such an act entails (Sweden might have a more encompassing definition than other countries, which I really have to struggle to see as a bad thing...). Thusly, when within the borders of Sweden, he is legally obliged to follow Swedish law. The charges brought against him indicates that maybe he hasn't, therefore he has to submit to the judicial system of Sweden and be tried in court. Why should he be exempt from that?

Lastly, one should keep in mind that Sweden has one of the least corrupt and politically affilicated justice systems in the world - placing at nr. 4 at Transparency Internationals Corruption Index*. Ecuador by comparison places at nr. 120. Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that Swedish law expressly states that extradition will not take place if the charges connected with said extradition are political or military in nature or if the charges are not criminal in Sweden. Add the fact that this case is extremely high-profile, making the risk of foul play unlikely.

*Source: http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/

Quoted for truth. This man has the right of it. I appreciate the level-headed approach he has taken to explaining the facts of the case, though I'm personally a big fan of more colorful speech. Julian Assange is a hypocrite and a self-serving little weasel who leverages his celebrity to escape the responsibilities the rest of us would have to confront.

 

[Athinira]

It seems to me that a lot of people are missing the point regarding the charges against Assange - whether or not you see the charges as relevant or not doesn't matter.

The bottomline is this; Julian Assange is charged with rape under the Swedish definition of what such an act entails (Sweden might have a more encompassing definition than other countries, which I really have to struggle to see as a bad thing...). Thusly, when within the borders of Sweden, he is legally obliged to follow Swedish law. The charges brought against him indicates that maybe he hasn't, therefore he has to submit to the judicial system of Sweden and be tried in court. Why should he be exempt from that?

Well, according to certain muslim laws in the middle east (in the more barbarian countries), we here in the west are all guilty of being heathens and should by their laws be purged or punished. Why should we be exempt from that?

Obvious reason is obvious: Because the only law that truly matters in this world is Darwins.

Every country in the world has different laws that they believe to be fair. We here in the west believe that our laws are superior to those of the east and vice versa. If you happened to be in a middle eastern country one day, and got charged with something that by western standards were ridiculous but carries a harsh penalty down there, and you got the chance to escape back to the west, would you do it? I bet you would. But by your own logic, why should you be exempt from that? )

At the end of the day, laws are just an attempted appliance of power within a specified region. As human beings, we typically fight for what we believe is right. Assange fights for freedom because he believes he is being set up, the Swedish government fights to get their hands on him because they believe he is a rapist, and everyone else has different things they fight for. And there is NO supernatural power in the world that says that one is more right than the other.

Edit: Nice misquote :/

 

[smithy_2045]

He didn't rape anyone, he had consensual sex and allegedly didn't use a condom despite the requests of the women. It makes him an ass of a person, not a crazed sex fiend who goes around penetrating helpless women for the laughs. While I believe he should face up to the charges against him, he has justified fears over being extradited to the US and being treated unfairly. It's not like the US has a particularly good record for how it treats its prisoners, especially politically charged prisoners.

tldr;
He is a complete prick of a bloke, and should face his sexual assault charges. But the US should back the fuck off.

 

[Quiet Stranger]

I know of the guy because of Wikileaks but I don't know anything about this "female assault" business, I haven't seen a newspaper in a while.

 

[Athinira]

Oh how dull. You don't think I'm deserving of my opinion of the guy because I havn't been in the same position as him. [footnote]Or you assume I would do a thing based on your complete vacuum of any knowledge about me or my character.[/footnote]

Oh you are fully deserved of your opinion. I never specified otherwise.

I just pointed out that i believe your opinion is ridiculous, and that several of your own expression are hypocritical because they can be applied against yourself in this debate )

As for your footnote: Yes i make assumptions. We all do. I might not be right about my assumptions, but I'd still be willing to be on them.

By that logic none of us should have opinions about anyone. Talk about a snoozefest. I'm more or less finished with you because talking to you is dreadfully boring

Funny how that one always comes out whenever people run out of arguments.

Talking to you isn't boring at all, because the important aspect of a debate is making your opposition THINK about what you say. I thought about your points, and concluded that they are very poorly thought through. You however doesn't seem to put much thought into your opinion at all, i can understand why you are bored. That you ended up that way doesn't concern me, however. All it means is that you consider your time here more wasted than i do with mine. Your loss.

 

[Sneezeburger]

You'd have to be really thick to not see that the whole sexual assault thing is a setup to prosecute him on the USA's soil.

This. Really. Can't pretend i know what really happened but since we're all chipping in thats my view.

Also http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/23/women-against-rape-julian-assange
Just popped up on my facebook wall.

I'd argue you'd have to be really thick to argue that this whole thing is just a set up to prosecute him on US soil. It's a smokescreen he's using to avoid facing trial for a crime he may, or may not, have committed.

I honestly weep that so many people would rather believe this is some kind of American Government conspiracy than simply face the possibility that there is a man who does not want to stand trial for rape.

As for the Guardian article (source says it all really), it's very easy to point out that the 'zeal' with which he is being perused is as much his own doing as anybodies - he's the celebrity who decided to skip bail and hide out in an embassy, it'd just be irresponsible for the UK government not to respond.

Oh... and I loved this bit from the Guardian article:

Whether or not Assange is guilty of sexual violence, we do not believe that is why he is being pursued. Once again women's fury and frustration at the prevalence of rape and other violence, is being used by politicians to advance their own purposes.

So, these women are against rape, but they're more okay with rape than the idea of a government prosecuting a rapist for their own selfish needs?

Cutting ones nose off to spite ones face?




For fucks sake... Assange would rather throw his hat in with Ecuador, one of the most corrupt, opaque(as opposed to the 'transparency' that Assange has crusaded for so vehemently) countries on the planet. Not to mention that, for somebody who demands that there be no secrets amongst western governments (even when to reveal said secrets poses direct threat to human life), he's hardly practising what he preaches is he?

To be fair i'm not saying its all one huge movie-type conspiricy. Personaly i think he should go to trial. I'm just dubious over how fair it would truly be.