Julian Assange is a prick.
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So this didn't happen? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0Ultratwinkie said:
I watched it after someone in here linked it and apparently you didn't notice it, or refused to.
Are you really going to bold-facedly claim that this wasn't important? The murder of innocent people and hurting children.
OT: I don't agree or condone everything Assange has done so far. But I do not think him a coward or a bad person for protecting himself from bullshit charges and what would come of them if he were to face up to them. As has been stated many times in this thread the Swedish rape-laws are ridiculous. And I don't buy that they suddenly want to ask him about it now or that that questioning needs to take place in Sweden, for that matter.
I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories, or rather, I'm not a fan of the image that title carries. Calling the charges flimsy and suspecting (with fairly good reason) that this is just a way to get him in the US governments hands definitely sounds like a conspiracy, but I don't want to use that name for it because to me, it implies that this is extremely far fetched and ludicrous. And I think it's fairly evident that this isn't at all far fetched.
And to make things even worse, I've read in several newspapers (this was about a week ago so I'm uncertain how accurate this still is) that the UK government wants to go and grab him from inside the Ecuadorian embassy. Isn't it just a little bit insane that they would even consider doing this for a man who is only wanted for questioning? It's like they think he's Osama Bin Laden incarnate hiding in there.
Captcha: perfect world Heh..
Sorry "they already knew that" is not an excuse since that is in no way a guarantee. If the goverment is keeping stuff like this secret, it's secret for a reason, not something people are justified to scream from the rooftops (so to speak).Ultratwinkie said:
You have your opinion of course, but I really don't think other nation's intelligence agencies knew all of this, or had this kind of confirmation.
Yeah, I think I jumped to conclusions there. I've edited my post. However, the fact that he refuses to go to court makes me guess that he is guilty. Just a guess of course.Henkie36 said:
And I don't think I should take a milder tone. I'm of the opinion that if you are accussed of a crime you should resolve it in a court of law, not throw a gigantic hissy fit and try and create a conspiricy theory that suggests the US is out to get you when all the evidence says that they aren't, and that in any case you would be safer in sweden than the UK if they wanted to extridite you.
As I've said I think wikileaks is a fine thing. I don't think you should be able to use celebrity or status to escape justice.
I will probably be parroting what people have already said but.
1) Jullian Assange released diplomatic info that was deeply embarrasing to the US. More specifically footage of American soldiers gunning down cameramen who they thought had RPG's (Because camera stands and RPG's look really alike) (Also the person who gave this info to wikileaks is now in prison for 20 years or something while everyone involved in the incident got off scot free). However he did jeopardise operations (Which are illegal due to war crimes and a war that was set up on a false premise in order to put pressure on Iran. If this isn't the case why haven't we gone into Syria yet like we did with Libya)
2) the rape claims for Jullian Assange if memory serves is on some obscure nuance about condoms and their usage that constitutues more as sexual assault I think. However regardless the case was settled back in the 90's I think and even now only 1 of the 2 girls originally involved have actually stepped forward.
3) Jullian Assange took refuge in England because it is legally impossible to extradite him from here to the US (where he will be tried with treason most likely and executed) due to the European Human Rights act which Sweden is not apart of (The right to life more specifically) and so they are trying to extradite him to Sweden first.
The worst bit of all is the fact that America are going to try him for treason as stated before and I don't understand how this is possible since treason is usually an act committed by ones own citizen under an NDA (Which is what that guy who originally leaked this story broke) but Jullian Assange has signed no agreement and will most likely get executed for a crime he never committed.
This is just another example of America trying to control the world (And failing epically at it) because they can't seem to understand that they are no longer in a Cold war. For more examples of being failures at being the world police look at any major war in the past 80 years and who is either responsible or giving considerable funding to one of the sides or the more recent Kim Dotcomm fiasco and over the top raid on his house which had CIA agents there.
1) Jullian Assange released diplomatic info that was deeply embarrasing to the US. More specifically footage of American soldiers gunning down cameramen who they thought had RPG's (Because camera stands and RPG's look really alike) (Also the person who gave this info to wikileaks is now in prison for 20 years or something while everyone involved in the incident got off scot free). However he did jeopardise operations (Which are illegal due to war crimes and a war that was set up on a false premise in order to put pressure on Iran. If this isn't the case why haven't we gone into Syria yet like we did with Libya)
2) the rape claims for Jullian Assange if memory serves is on some obscure nuance about condoms and their usage that constitutues more as sexual assault I think. However regardless the case was settled back in the 90's I think and even now only 1 of the 2 girls originally involved have actually stepped forward.
3) Jullian Assange took refuge in England because it is legally impossible to extradite him from here to the US (where he will be tried with treason most likely and executed) due to the European Human Rights act which Sweden is not apart of (The right to life more specifically) and so they are trying to extradite him to Sweden first.
The worst bit of all is the fact that America are going to try him for treason as stated before and I don't understand how this is possible since treason is usually an act committed by ones own citizen under an NDA (Which is what that guy who originally leaked this story broke) but Jullian Assange has signed no agreement and will most likely get executed for a crime he never committed.
This is just another example of America trying to control the world (And failing epically at it) because they can't seem to understand that they are no longer in a Cold war. For more examples of being failures at being the world police look at any major war in the past 80 years and who is either responsible or giving considerable funding to one of the sides or the more recent Kim Dotcomm fiasco and over the top raid on his house which had CIA agents there.
Also the fact that is often said that people should face crimes that they have committed while being true is also very narrowminded and naive since yes he will go to sweden and the case will be done and dimissed most likely and then he will "Disappear" into the nothingness and turn up in america and end up on death row.
Greets!
Another long thread, this is my thoughts on the subject of Julian Assange. I really do not care about his personality, but he should be careful when playing with governments as he does. Sweden and the USA's political and judicial systems would look tame in comparison to some true political ass-hats that seek to make themselves look like 'democratic' followers of 'freedom'
Psh, wikileaks no longer matters in this case, Julian no longer matters in this case, all that matters now is who has this little gem of a desperate political tool and like any other tool, Julian can be used. He best hope that he is not disposed of after.
That is assuming that he doesn't face extreme sentences for whatever crimes he has commited, or have had imagined for him.
Personally, I would like to see him in the hands of Sweden, just to see what happens to him. That may seem heartless of me, but these problems he faces now will not go away for him. At least the rest of us through the world will be able to see where Sweden's judicial system takes him and if he ends up on U.S soil, how he will be treated. Then we can get a really good idea just how humane the systems are.
Another long thread, this is my thoughts on the subject of Julian Assange. I really do not care about his personality, but he should be careful when playing with governments as he does. Sweden and the USA's political and judicial systems would look tame in comparison to some true political ass-hats that seek to make themselves look like 'democratic' followers of 'freedom'
Psh, wikileaks no longer matters in this case, Julian no longer matters in this case, all that matters now is who has this little gem of a desperate political tool and like any other tool, Julian can be used. He best hope that he is not disposed of after.
That is assuming that he doesn't face extreme sentences for whatever crimes he has commited, or have had imagined for him.
Personally, I would like to see him in the hands of Sweden, just to see what happens to him. That may seem heartless of me, but these problems he faces now will not go away for him. At least the rest of us through the world will be able to see where Sweden's judicial system takes him and if he ends up on U.S soil, how he will be treated. Then we can get a really good idea just how humane the systems are.
Almost entirely disagree.
I believe that question of sexual assault to be dubious, as has been pointed out by the flaws in the maids accounts. It has been awhile however, since I have heard this confirmed by a reliable source, as it seems to have bee swept under the carpet.
There is even a debate as to whether what it was he did can be deemed sexual assault or merely the woman being pedantic over consent. This is a paraphrase and in no way reflects my opinion of sexual assault and rape; it is merely a discussion I am aware is being had, in some areas.
I wholeheartedly believe that should be be extrodited to Sweden, he will be on the first unmarked plane to the US where he will never be heard form again.
But thats what you get from knocking the worlds biggest collective Ego down a few pegs.
I believe that question of sexual assault to be dubious, as has been pointed out by the flaws in the maids accounts. It has been awhile however, since I have heard this confirmed by a reliable source, as it seems to have bee swept under the carpet.
There is even a debate as to whether what it was he did can be deemed sexual assault or merely the woman being pedantic over consent. This is a paraphrase and in no way reflects my opinion of sexual assault and rape; it is merely a discussion I am aware is being had, in some areas.
I wholeheartedly believe that should be be extrodited to Sweden, he will be on the first unmarked plane to the US where he will never be heard form again.
But thats what you get from knocking the worlds biggest collective Ego down a few pegs.
Please give me a source suggesting the sexual assualt is dubious. I don't think you saying it's been swept under the carpet is a valid argument.Me55enger said:
If there's debate about it being sexual assault it can be had in court. (by the way, english lawyers agree that what he's accussed of would be considered rape in the UK.)
Finally, he is in no more danger of being taken to the US from england as he is from Sweden. In fact, he is MORE safe in Sweden. Added to that, there's no reason to think the US would take him, especially with the massive amount of media attention he'll likely receive.
I think it counts as rape in Sweden if you have sex without protection and without informing the other partner that you are not using protection, which i think might have happened, also the case was dropped and was all around done, just seems a bit too suspicious for that to come back now, I think he refuses to go to court because it is obvious England will send him to US, and you know the legal system there will all around find some way to put him in quantamo bay...ArnRand said:
I support Assange, Just watching that footage from the Apache helicopters made me sick, and the fact that there is a group out there that has published that information is great.
He worked with traditional media, and had to live on the road for a long time to avoid any dangers, the idea that those 'military secrets' were secret for a reason is bullshit, Having read a great deal of the papers leaked I can only conclude that most people, including it appears the majority of people posting in this thread, believe that the world is exceedingly black and white.
Some of your comments are actually pretty disgusting, as a citizen of the UK I can understand that we are the bad guys, for most of the world we are the enemies, open your eyes and realise that the more we know about the bullshit that our governments feed us, the better we can defend against that bullshit.
The coincidental nature of the allegations against Assange, the timing of them, the actual actions that he took, and the actions of the accusers, makes me think that the accusations are unjust. He had consensual sex with 2 women, neither time did he use a condom, they only made accusations after finding out about each other. It seems obvious to me that they are really pissed about him sleeping with someone else, not him sleeping with them.
Sweden has a history of quick extraditions to the US, just because no request has been made, does not mean that there isn't an agreement. I personally believe that the original plan was to extradite him from sweden to the US, due to the publicity surrounding that case I believe that that plan has been dropped. Although looking at the manner in which bradley manning has been treated should give some indication to how Assange can be expected to be treated.
He worked with traditional media, and had to live on the road for a long time to avoid any dangers, the idea that those 'military secrets' were secret for a reason is bullshit, Having read a great deal of the papers leaked I can only conclude that most people, including it appears the majority of people posting in this thread, believe that the world is exceedingly black and white.
Some of your comments are actually pretty disgusting, as a citizen of the UK I can understand that we are the bad guys, for most of the world we are the enemies, open your eyes and realise that the more we know about the bullshit that our governments feed us, the better we can defend against that bullshit.
The coincidental nature of the allegations against Assange, the timing of them, the actual actions that he took, and the actions of the accusers, makes me think that the accusations are unjust. He had consensual sex with 2 women, neither time did he use a condom, they only made accusations after finding out about each other. It seems obvious to me that they are really pissed about him sleeping with someone else, not him sleeping with them.
Sweden has a history of quick extraditions to the US, just because no request has been made, does not mean that there isn't an agreement. I personally believe that the original plan was to extradite him from sweden to the US, due to the publicity surrounding that case I believe that that plan has been dropped. Although looking at the manner in which bradley manning has been treated should give some indication to how Assange can be expected to be treated.
It counts as rape in Sweden if you rape someone. 'One: ?The allegation of rape would not be rape under English law?NoneOfYourBusiness said:
This is flatly untrue. The Assange legal team argued this twice before English courts, and twice the English courts ruled clearly that the allegation would also constitute rape under English law.'
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2012/08/legal-myths-about-assange-extradition
The case was dropped, but was picked up again in september 2010, before any of the wikileaks scandals, by a neural swedish prosecutor.
It is NOT obvious the UK will send him to the US, they've actually been keeping Assange here on bail for months, and the US hasn't said anything. 'Assange has been afforded more opportunities to challenge the warrant for his arrest than almost any other defendant in English legal history.'
This idea that the US is out to get Assange is invented entirely by him so he can get the support of people like you, and so he won't have to face up to whatever he did or didn't do to those swedish women.
Can I get a source on the thing about condoms? And which of my comments are disgusting? I said he was a prick, I guess that's a pretty terrible insult or something where you come from?Airsoftslayer93 said:
This isn't about the bullshit our governments feed us, or about conspiricy theories and paranoia about the UK being the 'bad guys' to the world (Protip, we're not. A lot of countries see the UK as a santuary. You'll find plenty of immigrants stuck in a holding bay in Italy or somewhere saying they're desperate to get to the UK.) It's about a man fleeing rape charges. And by the way, there's nothing special about Swedish rape laws. 'One: ?The allegation of rape would not be rape under English law?
This is flatly untrue. The Assange legal team argued this twice before English courts, and twice the English courts ruled clearly that the allegation would also constitute rape under English law.'
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2012/08/legal-myths-about-assange-extradition
By breaking the law we are just as arrogant as he is.Dandark said:
I recognize that the information he leaked put innocent people in danger, but I trust governments just like I trust corporations - I don't.Elementary - Dear Watson said:
Plus, "competitive intelligence" is just a legal form of industrial espionage. It wouldn't be illegal in the first place.
As a fellow "bad guy" of the world, I must tell you it's okay to admit that you're the bad guy.ArnRand said:
Also, the notion that lots of people like the UK is as inane as the American logic that most people hate them.
What's wrong with the UK? I didn't personally invade iraq or whatever. In fact a lot of people hated that move, it's still regarded as a terrible decision, especially by the left. Maybe a lot of people don't exactly like the UK, but I don't think it's hated, and if it is, it shouldn't be. As Mcnulty would say: What the fuck did I do?ElPatron said:
This should be in the Religion and Politics forum.
To those reading this comment, you do realise that your government does not care about you and will do everything it can to keep its power?
OT: It saddens me to see people actually falling the propaganda character assassination that is being done to Julian Assange. I thought we thinking people would not fall for this trick...
To those reading this comment, you do realise that your government does not care about you and will do everything it can to keep its power?
OT: It saddens me to see people actually falling the propaganda character assassination that is being done to Julian Assange. I thought we thinking people would not fall for this trick...
Have none of you idiots ever heard of the American "extraordinary rendition" programs? Face the fact that the US does not obey international law. Go read this before any of you say anything else.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition
See that? That's exactly what Assange is afraid of, and rightly so. Sweden explicitly cooperated with this program on multiple occasions, allowing the United States to send two men seeking asylum in Sweden back to their home country of Egypt, where they were reportedly beaten and tortured. This isn't conspiracy theory any more, this happened. Even if Sweden did guarantee Assange he wouldn't be extradited to the US, it's not at all a stretch of logic to say that they might allow the CIA to abduct him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition
See that? That's exactly what Assange is afraid of, and rightly so. Sweden explicitly cooperated with this program on multiple occasions, allowing the United States to send two men seeking asylum in Sweden back to their home country of Egypt, where they were reportedly beaten and tortured. This isn't conspiracy theory any more, this happened. Even if Sweden did guarantee Assange he wouldn't be extradited to the US, it's not at all a stretch of logic to say that they might allow the CIA to abduct him.
So it's propaganda, the rape allegation? And before you say that Swedish rape laws are crazy, Assange has been told that what's he's accused of is rape in the UK too. Also, my government does care about me, because I'M the one who gets to decide if it keeps it's power. That's how a democracy works. And guess what, doing anything I feel is unjust to Assange would make me not want to vote for them. But they haven't, all they've done is said that he should defend againsht the rape claims in a Swedish court, which makes a whole lot of sense to me.Moth_Monk said: