Just because she isn?t saying no doesn?t mean she is saying yes

[neonsword13-ops]

Is it Rape Week on The Escapist or something?

I mean, is it? Should I have brought snacks? I never got any memos about it...

Neither did I. :/

Must have been the whole Tomb Raider thing that got everyone worked up.

Personally, I think this rape phase is annoying. We've already had plenty of "gender equality" threads this past month. Adding an extremely more delicate subject to the matter makes it even worse. Makes me want to quit the escapist for a few months.

Anyway, I'll bring the popcorn that will provide us sustenance until this shit storm blows away!! :3

You bring the soder pop.

 

[peruvianskys]

If me and you are hanging out, and I am trying to convince you to come with me to the store or the park or whatever, even if you're initially skeptical, even if you initially say no, I am not kidnapping you if you eventually give in and go to the park with me.

Similarly, just because a guy begs and pleads to sleep with you it does not mean that he is coercing you.

That said, enough with the damn rape threads. It's getting old.

But it does mean you're a creepy fucking douchebag.

Unless she specifically and clearly says 'no' then it's fair game.

Unless it's opposite day.

If there is even a suspicion that someone doesn't want to have sex, you shouldn't have sex with them. Otherwise, you're a creep.

 

[Vault101]

Unless she specifically and clearly says 'no' then it's fair game.

Unless it's opposite day.

even when she's unconcious?...or trying to get away from you?

 

[Pharsalus]

Now I've never done anything with someone in a non-consensual manner. But I do follow the rule that if I can touch I can go all the way. I understand pressure and intimidation can keep someone from fighting off unwanted advance, but if a woman can't at least slap a hand away...

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

How about

'Never have sex with someone without their explicit consent'

Pretty damn simple.

Because that's totally unreasonable. Everyone who tries for a one nighter is going to be saying, as they try to close, "can I have sex with you," and that's just ridiculous.

How about "If you don't want to have sex with someone then say no. Don't stay out till half 5 in the morning, pop round to their house, eat their food and then when they expect sex pull out the sexual assault card; it's a **** move."

If the other person is very intoxicated or incapacitated, somehow... Then obviously a lack of 'no' does not mean 'yes', as they are incapable of making that choice. To try anything with them is simply wrong, and would be considered rape.

Also totally not right. "They're drunk? Oh, totally incapable of complex thought." How many of people who make this claim actually drink? It's also unreasonable. Yes, taking advantage of a drunk person when you aren't also drunk is a dick move and getting them drunk so they'll have sex with you is actually date rape, but them being drunk and then complying is not rape; it's called a mistake and the people who make the claim that it's rape need to learn how to take some fucking responsibility for their dumb ass mistakes.

Can we make this the last rape/gender thread now? No? Yeah, I saw that coming.

 

[orangeban]

Consent is when you say yes, consent is not not saying no. Non-consent should be the default assumed state.

I like how people are saying, "Asking if they want sex? BUT THAT WOULD RUIN THE SEX!" Who are these mysterious partners who are totally turned off by the concept of checking what the boundaries are?

Also, no-one is owed sex, no, not even if they've been "teasing" you for the last half hour, not even if you bought them dinner. Not even a sex worker who you've paidowes you sex, though they should probably give your money back.

Edit: And sheeeesh, this thread in particular has brought out the douchebags. I'm reminded of when we got that mini-plague of threads about whether drunken sex was rape.

 

[orangeban]

Unless she specifically and clearly says 'no' then it's fair game.

Unless it's opposite day.

Happily if you ever come to my country you'd end up in jail for that assumption.

What is this mystical country? Can you lead me to this land of milk and honey and none-implied consent?

 

[HellRaid]

*Sigh*

Can we please stop talking about rape. Please. Just for one day.

This is what The Escapist would look like without gender issue threads.

But wait: There is clearly a bias towards men in this picture! How offensive!

OT: I think a lot of the time this sort of thing comes up when girls get drunk, have sex, and then claim they were taken advantage of.

It actually happened to pair of my friends, they both got [really] drunk on the same bottle of vodka, had sex, and then two years later the guy gets assaulted by another one of the girl's male friends because she had told him that the first guy had taken advantage of her.

He hadn't. Several of us witnessed the flirting that led up to it and he was just as drunk - if not more drunk - than her at the time. Not only that, but some of the stuff I heard she did... you don't do that if you don't want to have sex. Haha.

He took it really badly actually. It's not nice when somebody heavily implies that you raped them (when you didn't).

 

[thebakedpotato]

I was actually agreeing with you... and trying to back up your argument by citing an example that didn't involve the whole "ZOMG FEMINZIS ARE TAKING OUR RIGHTS AWAY!" that has been sighted in this thread.

Sorry if it didn't come off that way. I did not intend for that.
However, all this bourbon won't drink itself.

 

[TheSteeleStrap]

Haven't we been over this our whole lives? Hasn't anyone ever heard "Only yes means yes" before? I have. It's actually pretty simple. No means no. Yes means yes. No response means no, because at that point she's passed out drunk. Follow these simple guidelines and you'll stay out of prison.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

Okay, I know that there's a plethora of rape threads out right now, but this is one thing that bugs me.

This [http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/dont-be-that-guy-ad-campaign-cuts-vancouver-sex-assaults-by-10-per-cent-in-2011/article2310422/] article was posted in the Jimquisition thread, and it reminded me of this.

Why is it seen as being just as bad as rape if someone has sex and doesn't want to? First off, in this case I'm assuming that there the guy isn't threatening the girl with anything, and that the guy isn't aware that she doesn't want to. Isn't it someone's responsibility to look out for their interests? Why is the guy expected to look out for her interests when she won't even go as far for herself as saying no? Furthermore, why is the responsibility wholly put on the guy's end? Apparently if the guy doesn't want to have sex he's expected to voice the fact or just expected to take it?

I'm sorry if any of this sounds offensive, or insensitive, and I'm not trying to blame the victim. However you should at least have the responsibility to let someone know that they are making you a victim. People can't always be expected to understand what's going through your head, if you don't want to do something to the extent that you'd feel tortured by it, then why don't you say something?!

If I'm looking at the wrong situations or reading anything wrong and the situation I described doesn't apply, please let me know. If you think I'm wrong on anything please don't just call me a mysoginist or accuse me of condoning rape, actually explain where you think I'm wrong and why I am for thinking that.

Well, on one level, the responsibility falls on a man because they can overpower a woman. This is not different than the "no hitting women" double standard. Most men have an advantage over women that makes any form of physical altercation seem one-sided, and therefore, unfair, regardless of who was the aggressor. So as men, it is our responsibility to be able to read any signals that women might be sending us unconsciously: Does this feel alright? Are we in a comfortable state of mind? Do we have each other's consent? How will I know when this is no longer consensual?

On another level, however, men are not mind readers. We can claim to know all we can about women and yet completely misread one signal for another. Women need to let men know exactly what is going on and how they want to proceed. If they are unsure of what they want, then they need to let the men know that right away, so that he does not make the mistake of unintentionally harming a woman.

 

[Psykoma]

-snipped-

You value getting your rocks off way too highly.

 

[CaptainKarma]

How about

'Never have sex with someone without their explicit consent'

Pretty damn simple.

Because that's totally unreasonable. Everyone who tries for a one nighter is going to be saying, as they try to close, "can I have sex with you," and that's just ridiculous.

How about "If you don't want to have sex with someone then say no. Don't stay out till half 5 in the morning, pop round to their house, eat their food and then when they expect sex pull out the sexual assault card; it's a **** move."

So if I get naked and make out with someone I'm obliged to sleep with them? What the hell is wrong with you? Hell, even if you have sex with someone once that doesn't obligate them to do it again.

How is it hard to get consent? I've had one night stands, it's easy to confirm. Somewhere between tops coming off and pants coming off a quick "you wanna do this?" reaffirms it. Easy. Takes barely a second.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

I guess woman now have zero responsibility now, they can be drunk, drugged up and sleep with a guy. An even if the guy was drunk or drugged up as well, he is supposed to be more responsible? How about woman not getting drunk and have some responsibility as well? There has been times that woman accuse the guy of rape because they feel guilty for cheating on their boyfriend. Or they just plain forget they said yes and wake up sober and have a change of heart.

I guess the rule is. The woman has to sign a form allowing sex to be cosigned by two other people and only then can a man sleep with a woman with out worrying about a rape charge.