Just finished Bioshock: Infinite - [HUGE SPOILERS]

[Hallow'sEve]

Don't really understand the ending when Elizabeth says "there's always a man, a light house, and a city"
I'm guessing this somehow ties Infinite to Bioshock (Rapture) but if so then the characters would have to fit as well. I assume that Jack is Booker and Ryan? But who is Elizabeth? Who's all the other characters?

I can understand it if Elizabeth is talking solely about Columbia and its universe, but I don't understand its expansion into the original Bioshock/Rapture.

 

[FootloosePhoenix]

I take "There's always a man, a light house and a city" to mean the legacy of the BioShock universes. One of the most basic things you take away after completing the game is that there are infinite universes, right? Well this implies that in every single one of them, there's a man, a lighthouse and a city, so some variant on the "BioShock journey" is being undertaken in each and every universe. As you can tell from Elizabeth's ability to open and travel through tears, there are countless other Columbias, but in some universes it can be presumed that Columbia doesn't exist; instead Rapture takes its place as the city and Andrew Ryan is its man (or the protagonist Jack; I'm not entirely sure if the "man" refers to the protagonist or the person who founded the city, though in Infinite's case they're the same person so it doesn't matter).

To answer your question, none of the other characters are necessarily represented precisely in Rapture, though you can easily equate Ryan to Comstock and Jack to Booker. I'm guessing the real important bit is the man and city themselves, not all the details in between.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

No one can really explain that stuff unless you have some basic understanding of quantum mechanics. Well, I say understanding, but no one really understand that stuff. We just have to accept it.

Bioshock Infinite is basically a thought experiment for principles of quantum mechanics applied directly to us instead of subatomic particles. That's why people can't really understand it. Quantum mechanics is about the world of particles that we can't see, but all of this other stuff that we can see and experience is explained by Einstein's general theory of relativity. Physicists have been trying to unify those two theories for years.

If you wish to develop your own understanding of Bioshock Infinite a bit more, you should try reading about quantum mechanics a little bit. This video is a good introduction if you don't have the time and patience to read and it's really fun: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv1_YB1IedE

 

[The Wykydtron]

"As a boy... I had a dog named Billy"

That ending was just... Ugh. I get it's a multiverse and stuff but it's just built up to and presented so fucking badly. Yeah Elizabeth really does explain the entire Bioshock framework in under 5 seconds... What?

I loved the entire game except the last half an hour or so.

 

[Hallow'sEve]

I take "There's always a man, a light house and a city" to mean the legacy of the BioShock universes. One of the most basic things you take away after completing the game is that there are infinite universes, right? Well this implies that in every single one of them, there's a man, a lighthouse and a city, so some variant on the "BioShock journey" is being undertaken in each and every universe. As you can tell from Elizabeth's ability to open and travel through tears, there are countless other Columbias, but in some universes it can be presumed that Columbia doesn't exist; instead Rapture takes its place as the city and Andrew Ryan is its man (or the protagonist Jack; I'm not entirely sure if the "man" refers to the protagonist or the person who founded the city, though in Infinite's case they're the same person so it doesn't matter).

To answer your question, none of the other characters are necessarily represented precisely in Rapture, though you can easily equate Ryan to Comstock and Jack to Booker. I'm guessing the real important bit is the man and city themselves, not all the details in between.

So the incarnation of "man, lighthouse, city" doesn't matter (it can be Rapture or Columbia, or any variant) because the root of the "man, lighthouse, city" is present in all of them? The way they made it sound though was that it was all one story (Booker's story) rather than a mold into which any story (like Rapture) could fit.

So it's not so much about the specific characters (Rapture or Columbia, Booker or Jack), but rather the story template (man, city, lighthouse)? And Elizabeth's tear ability opens the doors for her to all the templates?

 

[FootloosePhoenix]

So the incarnation of "man, lighthouse, city" doesn't matter (it can be Rapture or Columbia, or any variant) because the root of the "man, lighthouse, city" is present in all of them? The way they made it sound though was that it was all one story (Booker's story) rather than a mold into which any story (like Rapture) could fit.

So it's not so much about the specific characters (Rapture or Columbia, Booker or Jack), but rather the story template (man, city, lighthouse)? And Elizabeth's tear ability opens the doors for her to all the templates?

Well that's the way I manage to make the most sense of it. I've also heard some rather interesting theories about how Andrew Ryan is Booker/Comstock in a separate universe, but it's all speculation aside from what was explicitly stated in the game, including my analysis of course. I doubt there's even a firm meaning behind it, perhaps being intended to be very open to individual interpretation, though even if there was, I doubt Irrational would reveal it any time soon.

I just think that my interpretation would be fitting, if not entirely satisfactory. Though any way you spin it, it pretty much destroys the potential for continuation of the series, I feel.

 

[The Lyre]

I'm guessing this somehow ties Infinite to Bioshock (Rapture) but if so then the characters would have to fit as well. I assume that Jack is Booker and Ryan? But who is Elizabeth? Who's all the other characters?

It was meant to be meta. It's a fourth-wall-breaking nod to storytelling. Sort of.

People like to claim that it's related to the many-worlds elements of the plot, but it isn't. It can't be, because as you yourself pointed out, there isn't always a man/lighthouse/city.

It was tripe, frankly.

If you wish to develop your own understanding of Bioshock Infinite a bit more

As someone who has a basic understanding of the mechanics Bioshock Infinite tried to use, I can tell you, with certainty, that learning about the concepts and thought experiments shoved into B.I. will only disillusion you.

Bioshock Infinite's...interpretation...of parallel worlds in particular was borderline ridiculous and actually redundant, of all things - I didn't even know you could do that, but they managed it.

They used Schrodinger's Cat as an actual plot concept - not a thought experiment, but an actual, real concept - not only that, but they used it in conjunction with the many-worlds interpretation; something that has always been intended to provide a solution for that paradox. That tells you everything you need to know, unfortunately. I don't even know how to describe how unnecessary and...well, dumb that is in an eloquent manner.

Infinite was disappointingly light on science fiction, heavy on science fantasy.

OP - enjoy Bioshock Infinite as much as you can, for what it is - a beautiful city with somewhat interesting characters - but don't look too closely. You'll fall into hole after hole.

 

[Lygus]

"There's always a man, a lighthouse, and a city.". I assume it refers to ubiquitous events in parallel universes. Some things occurred in others, while others took place elsewhere exclusively.

Didn't Rapture suffered its downfall because of a crazy MAN (Elizabeth probably refers to him. He's the reason the player had to start the journey in an underworld) who invented and applied plasmids, rendering citizens uncontrollable and the city doomed. Also, it could be that Elizabeth has Booker in mind, additionally.

Lighthouse is the start of the journey in BI. The building you've entered first in BS1 was kinda a lighthouse, too. I may see things simplified, but it's a message that a true hero starts his journey with someone initially guiding him.

Any one kind of a city (underwater, in the atmosphere etc.) is the protagonist's sandbox. He shapes it and then leaves.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

As someone who has a basic understanding of the mechanics Bioshock Infinite tried to use, I can tell you, with certainty, that learning about the concepts and thought experiments shoved into B.I. will only disillusion you.

No. I'm not saying that Bioshock Infinite is logical. Quite the opposite. Knowing this stuff will let you see where the logic falls apart and why.

 

[Hallow'sEve]

As someone who has a basic understanding of the mechanics Bioshock Infinite tried to use, I can tell you, with certainty, that learning about the concepts and thought experiments shoved into B.I. will only disillusion you.

Bioshock Infinite's...interpretation...of parallel worlds in particular was borderline ridiculous and actually redundant, of all things - I didn't even know you could do that, but they managed it.

They used Schrodinger's Cat as an actual plot concept - not a thought experiment, but an actual, real concept - not only that, but they used it in conjunction with the many-worlds interpretation; something that has always been intended to provide a solution for that paradox. That tells you everything you need to know, unfortunately. I don't even know how to describe how unnecessary and...well, dumb that is in an eloquent manner.

I guess I'm just as dumb as they are. I always thought that Schrodinger's Cat was used to support multiple universes (in that by collapsing the waveform you've created a universe where the cat is alive and one where the cat is dead)

 

[Xdeser2]

The man, The lighthouse, and the city are the only three guaranteed constants between the universes. Other than that, anything can happen.

Honestly, I really liked the ending to Infinite, but I guess I'm in the minority here...

 

[BreakfastMan]

Um... No. That refers to the concept the Luteces' mention, "constants and variables", that there are certain things that are constant and unchangeable across the multiverse, in this case the man, the city, and the light-house, referring to Booker and Columbia. It is an actual concept in the game, and while yes, it is a fun little easter-eggy nod to Bioshock, that isn't the point of the line. I mean, come on people, was it really so hard to understand? Especially after the billions of articles on the ending? :\

 

[Reaper195]

I took away from 'a man, a lighthouse, a city' to mean there is always a man with a vision (Andrew Ryan to Comstock/Booker) who uses a lighthouse to get to a city of that man's vision (Rapture to Colombia) in each universe. Aside from that though, a fair amount of the ending was wasted on me. Too much 'suggestion' and 'subtlety' for me to enjoy what I was hoping was going to be an easily comprehensible time-travel/sci-fi ending. But questioning the ending simply reminded me of a quote from Game of Thrones, "These are questions for wise men with skinny arms".

 

[FrozenCones]

The man, The lighthouse, and the city are the only three guaranteed constants between the universes. Other than that, anything can happen.

Honestly, I really liked the ending to Infinite, but I guess I'm in the minority here...

Does that mean its theoretically possible Booker was the protagonist in Bioshock 1 or the Big Daddy in 2?

My knowledge of quantum mechanics is little-to-nonexistent. It definitely was one of those endings that has stuck in my head since I finished it.

 

[MrPhyntch]

The "Man, lighthouse, city" trio is actually a multi-layered remark that has a lot of meaning to it, not all of which is readily apparant.

1. On the surface, it appears to be a tie together tying the Bioshock Multiverse together, using a meta explanation to show how they're all essentially the same story at their core.

2. It also uses the above point to tie ALL stories together. There is always a lighthouse a man and a city. The Man may be different, the city may be different, and the lighthouse may not be any form of tower at all, but all stories have the same structure. This layer is a meta-commentary on stories as a whole.

3. It's also an attempt to pull the story together at the last minute, trying to cozy you up to the whole "constants and variables" thing. See above point; the forms of the trio can change, but the trio is a set of constants.

The next layers are simply adaptations of the above.

4. All of the constants and variables in Infinite. as you can see throughout the game, literally everything can change between universes. except the three things they had in common; the Lighthouse, Columbia, and Booker. No matter what changes took place in that universe, those constants stayed.

5. The constants and variables throughout Bioshock in general. AFter all, they are all tied to the lighthouse, the man, and the city. While the variables around them changed, the actual constants of the lighthouse, man, and city remain.

6. The constants and variables in all stories, ever. They are all rooted in the man (the hero), the lighthouse (the event that marks the start of their journey), and the city (the strange unknown locale that the hero has to work in).

All in all, it's simply a phrase using easy to identify symbols based on the current story to try to get you used to the whole "constants and variables" thing, which is one of the major points of Infinite, especially the ending.

 

[BurningWyvern90]

It's a reference to the theory of multiverses/parallel universes/bubble universes. Which is complicated to say the least. So, basically, there's the theory that an infinite amount of sort-of duplicate multiple universes exist, each packed against and stacked against one another kind of like beans in a bean bag chair or bouncy balls in a Target bin or something like that. And that every iteration of every choice we ever make in our lives, from what we eat to breakfast to who/if we marry, changes our lives in some way, and thus there is a universe that exists somewhere where our alternate self has made such-and-such a choice differently. That's about as simple as quantum theory can or will ever get, so I apologize if it doesn't make much sense.

But some things remain constant. So, regardless of how valid it is when viewed with this theory in mind, a (slightly crazy idealist) man, a ('Utopian') city, and a (...got nothin' for this one) lighthouse will always be in the universe no matter what. But you shouldn't look at the actual theory behind this stuff too much (even though I think it's fascinating ), because at that point the game is basically stretching into sci-fi territory, so there's even more willing suspension of disbelief involved and trying to analyze it too much isn't the point.

I don't know if it was trying to tie all of them together, but it's interesting to think about. My friends and I thought that maybe there was something early on in his life that made him Andrew Ryan vs Comstock/Booker, even though I realize that doesn't fit age-wise. Probably if it meant for you to assume direct multiple universe references to Rapture it meant that Booker and Elizabeth are a Big Daddy/Little Sister parallel. I've also seen a theory about Booker somehow being Songbird as well, because of the drowning motif (and because it would fit the Big Daddy thing), but I don't know if I buy that one. It's interesting though.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

An interesting thing to note is the bathysphere. During BioShock you find out that after the lockdown only Ryan and people with similar DNA (Jack, the player) can use it. While you're in Rapture with Elizabeth, you use one which gives further hints for the "Comstock = Ryan" theory.

To me, the whole Rapture thing was more of a shout-out to the original Bioshock than anything along with drawing some parallels too. I'm skimmed over some things people have put together tying both games together (Comstock=Ryan, Elizabeth=Little Sister, Lutece=Tenenbaum, etc.) so don't know if it actually makes sense or not. However, it doesn't have to tie together either as that Rapture could've been instance of Rapture from a set of its own infinite universes and in that one Ryan didn't code the bathyspheres to his DNA.

 

[MrTwo]

I don't know if it was trying to tie all of them together, but it's interesting to think about. My friends and I thought that maybe there was something early on in his life that made him Andrew Ryan vs Comstock/Booker, even though I realize that doesn't fit age-wise. Probably if it meant for you to assume direct multiple universe references to Rapture it meant that Booker and Elizabeth are a Big Daddy/Little Sister parallel. I've also seen a theory about Booker somehow being Songbird as well, because of the drowning motif (and because it would fit the Big Daddy thing), but I don't know if I buy that one. It's interesting though.

I don't think it's possible for Andrew Ryan to actually BE Booker/Comstock other than in the "always a man/lighthouse/city" i.e. he doesn't share the same relationship with either of them as Booker does with Comstock of being resultant of a specific choice (being baptised or not). This is mostly just because Bioshock 1 takes place in the 50s/60s era and BI is in 1912 mostly. So there is "always a man, lighthouse and city", but the man isn't necessarily the same man who made different choices, if that makes sense.

I really liked the ending, I thought it tied everything in nicely, with a nod to the original BioShock and leaving us on the edge with the after credits scene. There's plenty of articles that explain it in a more chronological order, but the basic premise is that there is one central choice where Comstock is created, the baptism, and if you cut that out Comstock doesn't exist, which creates a huge paradox and the after-credits scene only makes sense if you buy into the whole 'reset after a paradox' premise. If Elizabeth drowns Booker at his baptism, she can't be born, for one, snd it cancels out Columbia and the entire B:I story.

It'll be interesting to see how Irrational goes with the DLC, because if they try and expand on the story it will create a lot of problems, so here's hoping Ken Levine has some satisfactory explanation. Or they could do a DX:HR and give us some backstory on an event during the game, like the 'Booker as a martyr' universe or more stuff on the bounty hunter, Preston Downs.

For those who think the ending's bad because it takes liberties with quantum mechanics, the game has a floating city for god's sakes, it was always going to be fantastical. And for those talking about the inconsistencies and plot holes, I would honestly like someone to tell me what they are, because I couldn't see any other than the obvious paradox at the end.