Just trying to save the world

Aramax

New member
Sep 27, 2007
308
0
0
War against terror, climatic changes, economic crisis, pharmaceutical companies who create half-cures to maximise profits, school shooting, bridges collapsing, etc... what if there was a simple solution to all those problems, wouldn't it be nice?

It's time for all the leaders of this world to start talking about a solution to all of life threatening problems and agree on the most efficient solution to save as many human lives as possible. This solution has been found.

Sure there is no perfect solution and there will always be people who aim for other things then happiness but this solution is the closest thing to Utopia since capitalism/communism/socialism.

I'm talking about a resource based economy [http://www.thevenusproject.com/resource_eco.htm].

Let me try to summarise what a resource based economy would be like;

[ol]
[li] There is no money. Everyone get everything they need to live as comfortable as possible from the government for free. ( House, car, bed, table, fridge, oven, washer, dryer, computer, phone, iPod... I hope you get the idea )[/li]
[li] Everyone who wish to work just need to enlist. You get formation for what you wish to accomplish with your life. In the event of mass laziness, robots will be created for the tasks left that needs to be done. People who don't want to or can't work don't have to.[/li]
[li] ... [/li]
[li] Profits. [/li]
[/ol]

There are different opinions about changing all the known economical systems to a Resource-Based Economy but the dominant opinion is not neutrality.

There's the pessimists who think it would resemble something like this.


There's the optimist (Like me) who think it would resemble something like this.


In short, people fighting against a resource based economy are assuming that human nature is inherent. People fighting for it are assuming that human nature isn't inherent but the real question would be "Is it wise to keep a monetary economical system under such circumstances?"

In the last great economical depression our modern society literaly became a shithole where it was less obvious to survive then in the wilderness and many were left to themselves and a good example of this would be the multitude of kids working in coal mines.

All of our current economic systems failed to help us survive as a species a multitude of times... so often that today the whole world is left hungry for change. But the meaning of this "change" is not something that the politicians, the bureaucrats or the aristocrats of your society are going to make because those individual don't really care about anything else then their precious money and if they wish to prove me wrong then ask of them to talk publicly about the many benefits of a resource based economy.

For freedom.

Edit: The whole debate is hypothetical because theoretically it's possible that the war will just end, that the climate will just restore itself to what it used to be, that the economy will just restabilize itself, that the bureaucrats will become more responsible and start to really care about the lives of others, that everyone will stop being lazy go out of boundaries for their salary no matter how much they hate their work, that all the hobos of the world will just find a job, that the third world countries will stop starving to dead and that violence in the world will simply cease... but it's unlikely.

Are you willing to wait and see what will happen or do you guys want to start something that could ultimately save us all?
_____________________________________________________

People fighting against a resource based economy are assuming that human nature is inherent and that everyone need incentive in order to work for a society.

People fighting for a resource based economy are assuming that human nature isn't inherent and that everyone can live a happy life if all of their needs and desire are being fulfilled while they work for society.


Which one are you?
_____________________________________________________

Of course I'm against drastic changes to society because that would create more pain and suffering then anything else. This is why we should take steps toward a definitive change.

[ol]
[li]Talk about it to everyone you know or invite people you know to join the discussions already in place.[/li]
[li]Make people sign a petition to see how many would actually desire a change toward a resource-based economy.[/li]
[li]Send the petition to elect officials.[/li]
[li]Start a political party that would support a change for a resource-based economy.[/li]
[li]Vote democratically.[/li]
[/ol]

Today is phase 1.
 

Aramax

New member
Sep 27, 2007
308
0
0
Optimus Prime said:
Um...I like money? Let's face it, we need money or some kind of currency.
Money is the shadow of power and not power itself. We really dont need it, trust me on that one.

It was useful in the past to initiate the modern era and start the Industrial Revolution but today it's causing more harm then anything else. A system based on scarcity is the last thing that we really need right now.
 

dalek sec

Leader of the Cult of Skaro
Jul 20, 2008
10,237
0
0
Optimus Prime said:
Um...I like money? Let's face it, we need money or some kind of currency.
Likewise, so if you don't want your money please mail all of to me and Prime then.
 

Daye.04

Proud Escaperino
Feb 9, 2009
1,957
0
0
But. Who would determine what people should be allowed to recieve? Who decides what is "as comfortable as possible"?

Also. If no one has to work. ABout 90% will chooce not to. Wich brings us to the next question. How will we get all that we need to survive. Surely someone has to do something to produce it. I mean unless you're planning on doing this sometime in the far future. Now we simply don't have the tecnoligy for no one to work.

Also. The ones that are most influential would never go along with this. Why? Because they enjoy having a lot of stuff. Wich with this plan would mean that they would not recieve
 

Antidamacus

New member
Feb 18, 2009
259
0
0
Is this a joke? This isn't even remotely possible.

I can come up with 20 reasons why this wouldn't work right now.
 

garjian

New member
Mar 25, 2009
1,013
0
0
hmm... if there was no currency... and humans were still as they are now...

sociaty would fall apart, as soon as all the food is 'stolen' (although since its technically free... its not against any laws) wed be back to fending for ourselves... stealing from others... back to clans and tribes...

money is the only thing keeping order...
only if we did not require forced order...
would a money-less society work...
:>
 

Aramax

New member
Sep 27, 2007
308
0
0
Optimus Prime said:
Christ the Escapist is so blown to buggery I can't even quote you so sorry. Anyway, where's the incentive to work unless you recieve pay?
What's the incentive for people to give blood? What's the incentive for people to volunteer for anything? Incentive is the produce of scarcity when you think about it.
 

Aramax

New member
Sep 27, 2007
308
0
0
Kukul said:
No, just no for fuck's sake.

Communism killed over 100 million people already and this shit would end exactly the same.


I already stated that a resource based economy is nothing like communism. It's way better.

If you think that doing nothing will save more lives then I pitty you.
 

Zeke the Freak

New member
Jan 27, 2009
191
0
0
Aramax said:
deleted/

[ol]
[li] There is no money. Everyone get everything they need to live as comfortable as possible from the government for free. ( House, car, bed, table, fridge, oven, washer, dryer, computer, phone, iPod... I hope you get the idea )[/li]
[li] Everyone who wish to work just need to enlist. You get formation for what you wish to accomplish with your life. In the event of mass laziness, robots will be created for the tasks left that needs to be done. People who dont want to or can't work dont have to.[/li]
[li] ... [/li]
[li] Profits. [/li]
[/ol]

/deleted
so you want the government to make people who want to actually EARN a living to give the shit THEY WORKED HARD FOR to LAZY ASSHOLES who dont have jobs for FUCKING FREE thus encouraging uneducation, unemployment and paying people to be lazy while PUNISHING those who work hard and want to have a good life, eh?

ive officially lost faith in humanity
 

Lord George

New member
Aug 25, 2008
2,734
0
0
It might work if you had a culture with the right mindset, but look at western culture which teaches people to be greedy, individualistic, gives too much ambition, ect. it just wouldn't work people won't want to work if they don't have to, and why should people try if everything equal, the evil backstabbing opportunist gets just as much as the kind, hard-working nice person. nice in theory but it wouldn't work.
 

Aramax

New member
Sep 27, 2007
308
0
0
Zeke the Freak said:
so you want the government to make people who want to actually EARN a living to give the shit THEY WORKED HARD FOR to LAZY ASSHOLES who dont have jobs for FUCKING FREE thus encouraging uneducation, unemployment and paying people to be lazy while PUNISHING those who work hard and want to have a good life, eh?

ive officially lost faith in humanity
Your range of thought is limited by the dominant values of your society. I can feel your frustration but that's only because you're already doing all those things you just mentioned.

You want something to change... do things differently.

george144 said:
It might work if you had a culture with the right mindset, but look at western culture which teaches people to be greedy, individualistic, gives too much ambition, ect. it just wouldn't work people won't want to work if they don't have to, and why should people try if everything equal, the evil backstabbing opportunist gets just as much as the kind, hard-working nice person. nice in theory but it wouldn't work.
Just give it some time. It wont be perfect at first but in due time everyone will see a resource based economy like some sort of vacation from all the crap that they've been served for the last century.
 

Antidamacus

New member
Feb 18, 2009
259
0
0
Because I'm bored!

"The premise upon which this system is based is that the Earth is abundant with plentiful resource"

Hold on to that line for later.

"Modern society has access to highly advanced technology and can make available food, clothing, housing and medical care; update our educational system; and develop a limitless supply of renewable, non-contaminating energy.

So all we need is power that never runs out and is completely clean? Have we checked unicorn farts or fairy poo?

"At present, we have enough material resources to provide a very high standard of living for all of Earth's inhabitants."

Well then, there shouldn't be anything like greed or crime....

"Only when population exceeds the carrying capacity of the land do many problems such as greed, crime and violence emerge."

You just said we haven't exceeded the carrying.... what? So are we over the limit with people or not?

"By overcoming scarcity, most of the crimes and even the prisons of today's society would no longer be necessary."

What about murderers or sexual predators?

"A resource-based world economy would also involve all-out efforts to develop new, clean, and renewable sources of energy: geothermal; controlled fusion; solar; photovoltaic; wind, wave, and tidal power; and even fuel from the oceans. We would eventually be able to have energy in unlimited quantity that could propel civilization for thousands of years. A resource-based economy must also be committed to the redesign of our cities, transportation systems, and industrial plants, allowing them to be energy efficient, clean, and conveniently serve the needs of all people."

Well I'm sure you'll have a nice supply of workers willing to do this work to set up a utopia if you pay them a nice salary. I mean, the limitless supplies of energy and redesigns of the cities haven't happened yet.

"With automated inventory on a global scale, we can maintain a balance between production and distribution. Only nutritious and healthy food would be available and planned obsolescence would be unnecessary and non-existent in a resource-based economy."

I'm starting to see a theme showing up and it has nothing to do with total freedom from capitalism. I like my snacks and fats and sodas.

"As we outgrow the need for professions based on the monetary system, for instance lawyers, bankers, insurance agents, marketing and advertising personnel, salespersons, and stockbrokers, a considerable amount of waste will be eliminated."

So... no law anymore? What about police? Are there police? Who will stop people from committing crimes when they get super bored from not having to work?

"With the elimination of debt, the fear of losing one's job will no longer be a threat"

Because you can just quit and ask for a free house.

We would run out of resources faster if we just handed everyone everything and didn't require people to do a bit of work about it.
 

Zeke the Freak

New member
Jan 27, 2009
191
0
0
Aramax said:
Optimus Prime said:
Christ the Escapist is so blown to buggery I can't even quote you so sorry. Anyway, where's the incentive to work unless you recieve pay?
What's the incentive for people to give blood? What's the incentive for people to volunteer for anything?
The incentive is giving to those who NEED it, as it is not forced upon us. Plus, Those dont require us, college level hard workers, to get the same reward as the inbred lazy fucktards of the world.
 

garjian

New member
Mar 25, 2009
1,013
0
0
Aramax said:
If you think that doing nothing will save more lives then I pitty you.
lives dont mattter ^^

theres no way to save them...
everyone dies...