I use a mouse + keyboard + joystick combo alternating between mouse and joystick depending on type of game and situation. A joystick/controller is always preferable when it comes to maneuvering a vehicle/character with a limited max turning/aiming speed but a mouse will always trump the controller when it comes to an "infantry" FPS accuracy.
Keyboard and mouse are losing the FPS market
- Thread starter Vault101
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"Nobody wants to play a shooter with a keyboard and mouse anymore"
Hrmm lets see;
-Team Fortress 2
-Tribes Ascend
-CS (1.6, source, GO)
-Blacklight Retribution
-Quake Live
Just to name a few.
Not to mention the large number of open-source shooters such as Xonotic and Alien Arena. Yea I would say the PC market is pretty heavily invested in shooters.
Hrmm lets see;
-Team Fortress 2
-Tribes Ascend
-CS (1.6, source, GO)
-Blacklight Retribution
-Quake Live
Just to name a few.
Not to mention the large number of open-source shooters such as Xonotic and Alien Arena. Yea I would say the PC market is pretty heavily invested in shooters.
Here's an easy fix, Microsoft and Sony should include a cheapo Mouse and Keyboard with their system. They seriously (combined) cost less than those controllers do.Aaron Sylvester said:
well its diffidently KB&M for me. i have only played to FPS games on console (final fantasy VII:dirge of Cerberus on PS2. and crysis not sure which on X360) and i found both of them pretty hard. final fantasy had me aim for like 5 secs for a sniped head shot and ... lets not talk about crysis. maybe its because i have been a pc gamer for a like 13 years now (im 18 
) and haven't played much FPS on my PS1 before. anyway i think that for me KB&M is the best for any kind of game. i find gamepads to be extremely little for racing. and extremely slow for rpgs. i think they are only good for sports and fighting games.
) and haven't played much FPS on my PS1 before. anyway i think that for me KB&M is the best for any kind of game. i find gamepads to be extremely little for racing. and extremely slow for rpgs. i think they are only good for sports and fighting games.
The moment you tell me how i can play a DotA Hero with a controller i'd give it a try just for the lulz.
im really...REALLY bad at aiming in FPS's with a contoller but a mouse?...ZING! head shots all around! i think its because the mouse is faster for me. quick reflexes i guess? i dont know but i know i perfer mouse and keyboard FPS over controller. any other game though, i prefer a controller, your left hand cramps after a while if you're playing a game on the keyboard. kinda sucks if its a really fun game
I don't see how mouse and keyboard can possibly by losing the FPS market, seeing as how anytime I get on a forum and ask a question about using a gamepad with a game (most recently being Battlefield 3 for singleplayer) I get flammed by almost every person responding to me asking why would I even bother using a gamepad or they simply say I'm a moron for wanting to use a controller and add nothing to the discussion. Personally, I prefer controllers to games that allow them, but I have no problem using a mouse and keyboard as long as there is a button to toggle running and walking. I like building my own pace in a game, so being able to get to my destination while also going at a pace that I can admire the atmosphere or enviroment is a must for me. Online is a little different. I never do too bad when using a gamepad online, in fact, I do pretty well. But, 90% of the time I use a mouse when playing online.
If both were used, Mouse users would dominate. Without serious auto-aim someone with the sticks will be slaughtered by someone with a mouse. You can turn faster with a mouse, and also adjust your aim slower and more precisely. Every FPS I've played on consoles, I've wished that I could plug my USB mouse in and take care of business.tippy2k2 said:That's funny because I can't play a FPS on a computer because I find the keyboard/mouse setup makes them damn near unplayable
Frankly, I'm going to let the little girl in the taco commercial take over here...
Why not indeed taco girl....why not indeed.
I used a controller until I learned about advanced PC gaming, up until then I hadn't bought any big titles on PC and that all changed with Battlefield 1942 and Counter-Strike 1.5. I haven't looked back after then, I have a gamepad for my PC which I use for games like Super Meat Boy, Braid, and Jet Set Radio but if the game requires accurate shooting, I use key and mouse. I recently played a game that had auto aim, for keyboard and mouse or controller. After playing a few minutes, I got tired of auto aim because it slowed me down. Auto aim tries to hit people in the body but if you have played kb&m for any extended amount of time you learn that body shots are boring and are a waste of bullets.
I got used to keyboard and mouse extremely quickly, that said, I probably used the game with the toughest learning curve, CS 1.5. If you want to get good at FPS keyboard and mouse, you can download lots of old freeware games that have solid FPS controls. Or buy an old Medal of Honor game (I recommend Allied Assault) and just play through the campaign.
My issue with these which is better arguments is what determines which is better? Joysticks are more common so more people use them, they often have auto-aim which is easier, but they aren't more precise. There is a reason Counter-strike/TF2 haven't been overly popular on consoles, the games require fast accuracy which aren't easily attained on a gamepad.
What is the argument trying to prove, keyboard and mouse are much faster than gamepads, but keyboard and mouse in my experience can have higher levels of mastery. Anyone who ever played with any CPL or MLG pros on a pub server understands that the keyboard and mouse is far more advanced.
If the console market ever starts using keyboard and mouse I think PC will be in trouble, since most games aren't allowed to be modded.
I got used to keyboard and mouse extremely quickly, that said, I probably used the game with the toughest learning curve, CS 1.5. If you want to get good at FPS keyboard and mouse, you can download lots of old freeware games that have solid FPS controls. Or buy an old Medal of Honor game (I recommend Allied Assault) and just play through the campaign.
My issue with these which is better arguments is what determines which is better? Joysticks are more common so more people use them, they often have auto-aim which is easier, but they aren't more precise. There is a reason Counter-strike/TF2 haven't been overly popular on consoles, the games require fast accuracy which aren't easily attained on a gamepad.
What is the argument trying to prove, keyboard and mouse are much faster than gamepads, but keyboard and mouse in my experience can have higher levels of mastery. Anyone who ever played with any CPL or MLG pros on a pub server understands that the keyboard and mouse is far more advanced.
If the console market ever starts using keyboard and mouse I think PC will be in trouble, since most games aren't allowed to be modded.
Unreal tournament 3 for ps3 had K/M support. Did anyone play that? Or know if the K/M people destroyed the pad people?Vault101 said:
Really, if the lack of support is purely to protect players with crappy controls, seems pretty weak. I suspect its a lil more complicated than that (pushing their own hardware).
A wise man told me "sticks are like moving your head, mouse is like moving your eyes". The PS Move with a machine gun is like shooting a fucking gun! Yeah, that's more fun that it has any right to be.
I grew up with both, but nowadays I only use mouse, fundamentally because the games I like have changed and for the most part controllers don't cut it.
When you're controlling a single object on a screen, such as platformers or fighting games or 2D shooters, controllers are much more immersive and fun because they're designed to be comfortable.
But as soon as you need to pick out objects on the screen, whether you're aiming a gun in an FPS or selecting dudes in an RTS or whatever, mouse wins. It feels organic because it's very much like the process you use to look around and focus on objects with your eyes. You can be "looking at something" quite precisely from pretty much as soon as you can see it, just like real life.
Trying to do this with a controller is just an extra layer of abstraction between you and the action you're trying to do.
When you're controlling a single object on a screen, such as platformers or fighting games or 2D shooters, controllers are much more immersive and fun because they're designed to be comfortable.
But as soon as you need to pick out objects on the screen, whether you're aiming a gun in an FPS or selecting dudes in an RTS or whatever, mouse wins. It feels organic because it's very much like the process you use to look around and focus on objects with your eyes. You can be "looking at something" quite precisely from pretty much as soon as you can see it, just like real life.
Trying to do this with a controller is just an extra layer of abstraction between you and the action you're trying to do.
I honestly prefer controllers to M/K, but hear me out first.
I don't play FPSs with my focus being a sharpshooter (except in TF2 which is difinitively better on M/K. I play scout and snipah) when I play FPSs, my focus is on timing and movement. I parkour around the maps in Halo and Borderlands. I can't stand CoD because it's all about split second shooting and not movement. I like Battlefield because the size of the map offers an entire strategy to be built on movement. There's a reason I adore Tribes Ascend. When I learned of that series it was like a dream come true.
I've also clocked enough time on console shooters that I just get the inherent strategy to using analogue sticks in the first person environment. So couple getting how to shoot with an analogue stick, and being staunch in the defense of the analogue stick as being far, far better than WASD for movement, it should be obvious why I prefer playing shooters on my xbox then on my laptop.
I don't play FPSs with my focus being a sharpshooter (except in TF2 which is difinitively better on M/K. I play scout and snipah) when I play FPSs, my focus is on timing and movement. I parkour around the maps in Halo and Borderlands. I can't stand CoD because it's all about split second shooting and not movement. I like Battlefield because the size of the map offers an entire strategy to be built on movement. There's a reason I adore Tribes Ascend. When I learned of that series it was like a dream come true.
I've also clocked enough time on console shooters that I just get the inherent strategy to using analogue sticks in the first person environment. So couple getting how to shoot with an analogue stick, and being staunch in the defense of the analogue stick as being far, far better than WASD for movement, it should be obvious why I prefer playing shooters on my xbox then on my laptop.
Well consoles may have more players, but PC has the games. With the exception of Halo, we got all the popular ones they have, but with the addition of, among other things, excellent AAA-indie shooters (those two are not an oxymoron) like Red Orchestra 2 and Natural Selection 2.
But yeah... why can't we have both? Right now we do and I'm glad.
But yeah... why can't we have both? Right now we do and I'm glad.
Exactly. This is why I've been having so much fun with Dust 514. It's an open beta, and still looks pretty shit at the moment, but holy shit is it fun to mouse/keyboard murder a bunch of dual shock / sixaxis users to the point that it feels like you're cheating. You can always pick out the other m/k players too. I would love to see more of thisAaron Sylvester said:
I dont see how there can even be any question that the mouse is more precise then a stick, aiming using a gamepad involves pushing a stick in a direction you want to face and relying acceleration to get you there, hopefully accurately. With a mouse, I mean, for the most part there's no comparison, it's just point and click, way more natural.
Now an example akin to yours: Fallout 3/NV with a pad, try to line up a long shot with a sniper rifle, bonus points for doing it without also strafing left or right to help, and more bonus points for actually tracking the target instead of just waiting for them to walk into the crosshairs. Now, try it with a mouse. Exactly.
Sure, m/k make you more precise in a fps, but I don't see that as a plus. All it means is that everyone's getting more easy headshots, dieing more quickly and it becomes almost completely twitch/reaction based with position, cover etc counting for less. Sometimes that needs to be compensated for by making players move faster and have more health, but either way it just becomes a different style of game.
If I want to drag "realism" into it too, it's impossible to move around a gun as fast and precisely as a mouse anyway, but that's fairly moot.
Besides, I can sit on a couch/bed/floor in any position while using a controller.
If I want to drag "realism" into it too, it's impossible to move around a gun as fast and precisely as a mouse anyway, but that's fairly moot.
Besides, I can sit on a couch/bed/floor in any position while using a controller.
Porque no los....
In all seriousness, I started out playing on consoles and then I switched over to PC. I still play both. When I got used to playing with a keyboard and mouse, I noticed that it doesn't really matter. Both play the same way, and it all goes to preference. People that claim they can't use a controller, do what you tell every controller user to do: fucking practice. Listen to your own advice, don't just piss on something because it's different. It seems like every one of these controller haters were all PC gamers to start, so they never invested the effort to try and get used to a controller.
That being said, why the fuck does it matter which one is better? The same argument can be applied to every console war and every single high-horse "I'm a PC gamer so I'm automatically better than you!"
fucktippy2k2 said:
In all seriousness, I started out playing on consoles and then I switched over to PC. I still play both. When I got used to playing with a keyboard and mouse, I noticed that it doesn't really matter. Both play the same way, and it all goes to preference. People that claim they can't use a controller, do what you tell every controller user to do: fucking practice. Listen to your own advice, don't just piss on something because it's different. It seems like every one of these controller haters were all PC gamers to start, so they never invested the effort to try and get used to a controller.
That being said, why the fuck does it matter which one is better? The same argument can be applied to every console war and every single high-horse "I'm a PC gamer so I'm automatically better than you!"
If that were the case, why would you care? If you truly believe that the mouse/keyboard combo gives you such an edge over me, why would it matter to you if I wanted to use my controller in a battle to the virtual death with you?demoman_chaos said:
I played Shadowrun (a PC+360 cross-platform game that someone mentioned earlier in the thread a lot) and I went up against PC players using my 360 controller. I found the experience just fine and I could hold my own with no problem. I play better with a controller. You play better with a mouse and keyboard. Why does it HAVE to be one or the other?