Kicking The Habit

[Doom-Slayer]

Go see a psychologist.

He is a psychologist. See my response above, its post 16.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.376733.14683687

In all our defence. Why wouldn't he tell us that?

"As a clinical psychologist with 21 years experience" He first words on this website. Kind of dont think The Escapist would pay him to write columns if he was lying or pretending to be a Dr.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Go see a psychologist.

He is a psychologist. See my response above, its post 16.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.376733.14683687

In all our defence. Why wouldn't he tell us that?

"As a clinical psychologist with 21 years experience" He first words on this website. Kind of dont think The Escapist would pay him to write columns if he was lying or pretending to be a Dr.

Well then it's even worse because he's not a doctor. You don't call yourself a doctor if you've got a PhD, you call yourself Mr Mark PhD, Clinical Psychologist. Presenting yourself as "Dr Mark" is just intellectually dishonest.

 

[Dastardly]

Well then it's even worse because he's not a doctor. You don't call yourself a doctor if you've got a PhD, you call yourself Mr Mark PhD, Clinical Psychologist. Presenting yourself as "Dr Mark" is just intellectually dishonest.

This is an absolutely ridiculous and wholly untrue claim. Even college professors with doctoral degrees are universally referred to as "Dr. So-and-so." It's more common for a medical doctor to follow up the name with "MD" than for every other person holding a doctoral degree to forego the title. I mean... you're aware of what PhD stands for, right? (DOCTOR of Philosophy)

What's more, Dr. Mark doesn't have a PhD. He has a PsyD. As this type of addiction is psychological in nature, rather than chemical (and chemical addictions nearly always have a psychological component as well), that makes him perfectly qualified in this case.

Maybe you didn't know he was actually a PsyD. Maybe you misunderstood what exactly that entails. Hey, happens to all of us. But when you're caught in ignorance, don't continue attacking the guy's credibility just to save face. (It doesn't.)

 

[Doom-Slayer]

Well then it's even worse because he's not a doctor. You don't call yourself a doctor if you've got a PhD, you call yourself Mr Mark PhD, Clinical Psychologist. Presenting yourself as "Dr Mark" is just intellectually dishonest.

He has a Doctorate of Psychology....It says that on the page I just linked you

"Mark Kline, PsyD, Associate Director"

PsyD stands for Doctor of Psychology.

This is an absolutely ridiculous and wholly untrue claim. Even college professors with doctoral degrees are universally referred to as "Dr. So-and-so." It's more common for a medical doctor to follow up the name with "MD" than for every other person holding a doctoral degree to forego the title. I mean... you're aware of what PhD stands for, right? (DOCTOR of Philosophy)

What's more, Dr. Mark doesn't have a PhD. He has a PsyD. As this type of addiction is psychological in nature, rather than chemical (and chemical addictions nearly always have a psychological component as well), that makes him perfectly qualified in this case.

Maybe you didn't know he was actually a PsyD. Maybe you misunderstood what exactly that entails. Hey, happens to all of us. But when you're caught in ignorance, don't continue attacking the guy's credibility just to save face. (It doesn't.)

QFT

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Well then it's even worse because he's not a doctor. You don't call yourself a doctor if you've got a PhD, you call yourself Mr Mark PhD, Clinical Psychologist. Presenting yourself as "Dr Mark" is just intellectually dishonest.

This is an absolutely ridiculous and wholly untrue claim. Even college professors with doctoral degrees are universally referred to as "Dr. So-and-so." It's more common for a medical doctor to follow up the name with "MD" than for every other person holding a doctoral degree to forego the title. I mean... you're aware of what PhD stands for, right? (DOCTOR of Philosophy)

What's more, Dr. Mark doesn't have a PhD. He has a PsyD. As this type of addiction is psychological in nature, rather than chemical (and chemical addictions nearly always have a psychological component as well), that makes him perfectly qualified in this case.

Maybe you didn't know he was actually a PsyD. Maybe you misunderstood what exactly that entails. Hey, happens to all of us. But when you're caught in ignorance, don't continue attacking the guy's credibility just to save face. (It doesn't.)

Nice. A professional doctorate such as a PsyD, LLD or D.D isn't a license to go around calling yourself a doctor. PhD graduates might from time to time call themselves "Doctor" so-and-so but it isn't really correct - the term is reserved in public use for medical doctors. In anglo countries medical doctors do not even require a doctorate but a Bachelor of Medicine/Surgery, yet we call them doctors because they practice medicine. If I have a Doctor of Laws or Doctor of Divinity and go around calling myself "a doctor" you don't think that is going to mislead people? Professional doctorates are available in just about every field - engineering, science, teaching, business. If we use the term "doctor" in front of our names because we hold a doctorate, the term becomes meaningless and confusing because you don't know who's who and what's what.

So yeah, you're wrong but I'll forgive your arrogance for now.

 

[Dastardly]

Nice. A professional doctorate such as a PsyD, LLD or D.D isn't a license to go around calling yourself a doctor. PhD graduates might from time to time call themselves "Doctor" so-and-so but it isn't really correct - the term is reserved in public use for medical doctors.

No, it isn't. That's like saying only McDonald's can call something a hamburger. Now, when most people say, "Wanna get a hamburger?" it might be that they mean from McDonald's, but that doesn't make it an exclusive term.

You're mistaking one common use for the term to be the only definition of the term.

What's more, PsyD are very often referred to as "doctors," due to how closely they work with the medical field. And just like I wouldn't go to a cardiac doctor for my intestinal problems, we're not all running around assuming "doctor" means "doctor of all the things."

If we use the term "doctor" in front of our names because we hold a doctorate, the term becomes meaningless.

Why no. No, it doesn't. Because that's exactly what the term means. There is no medical meaning to the word "doctor." It simply implies one who is a master of something, to the point that they can teach and train others.

The dictionary, the etymology of the word "doctor," the entire academic world, and common sense are all on my side.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

The dictionary, the etymology of the word "doctor," the entire academic world, and common sense are all on my side.

Nice. A professional doctorate such as a PsyD, LLD or D.D isn't a license to go around calling yourself a doctor. PhD graduates might from time to time call themselves "Doctor" so-and-so but it isn't really correct - the term is reserved in public use for medical doctors.

No, it isn't. That's like saying only McDonald's can call something a hamburger. Now, when most people say, "Wanna get a hamburger?" it might be that they mean from McDonald's, but that doesn't make it an exclusive term.

You're mistaking one common use for the term to be the only definition of the term.

What's more, PsyD are very often referred to as "doctors," due to how closely they work with the medical field. And just like I wouldn't go to a cardiac doctor for my intestinal problems, we're not all running around assuming "doctor" means "doctor of all the things."

If we use the term "doctor" in front of our names because we hold a doctorate, the term becomes meaningless.

Why no. No, it doesn't. Because that's exactly what the term means. There is no medical meaning to the word "doctor." It simply implies one who is a master of something, to the point that they can teach and train others.

The dictionary, the etymology of the word "doctor," the entire academic world, and common sense are all on my side.

We're not talking etymology, but the use of the word, in public use, as a title. When I have a column called "ask Dr. Blood Brain Barrier" with no more information there is the assumption that I'm a physician and not a lawyer, physiotherapist or priest no matter what qualifications I have. I don't know where you live but it would have to be a strange place for that not to be the case. End of story.

And also when someone asks me what I do and I say "a doctor", it should be obvious the meaning of the word isn't intended to be "someone who is master of something". That would be a ridiculous and pointless reply giving no information as to my profession.

 

[Doom-Slayer]

Nice. A professional doctorate such as a PsyD, LLD or D.D isn't a license to go around calling yourself a doctor. PhD graduates might from time to time call themselves "Doctor" so-and-so but it isn't really correct - the term is reserved in public use for medical doctors. In anglo countries medical doctors do not even require a doctorate but a Bachelor of Medicine/Surgery, yet we call them doctors because they practice medicine. If I have a Doctor of Laws or Doctor of Divinity and go around calling myself "a doctor" you don't think that is going to mislead people? Professional doctorates are available in just about every field - engineering, science, teaching, business. If we use the term "doctor" in front of our names because we hold a doctorate, the term becomes meaningless and confusing because you don't know who's who and what's what.

So yeah, you're wrong but I'll forgive your arrogance for now.

To quote wikipedia

"Abbreviated "Dr" or "Dr.", it is used as a designation for a person who has obtained a doctorate-level degree."

"In the United States, the title Doctor is commonly used professionally by those who have earned a doctorate-level degree."

Dr. is a title, its not limited to the word Doctor. It is used both to describe people who are medical doctors and the abbreviation is used as well to describe people who have docterates.

How is this complicated?

 

[Dastardly]

We're not talking etymology, but the use of the word, in public use, as a title. When I have a column called "ask Dr. Blood Brain Barrier" with no more information there is the assumption that I'm a physician and not a lawyer, physiotherapist or priest no matter what qualifications I have. I don't know where you live but it would have to be a strange place for that not to be the case. End of story.

You can go on simply insisting you're right, but it's not providing your case any weight whatsoever. If I make mention of "Dr. Freud," no one wonders if I'm referencing some obscure gastroenterologist. And while I think the guy's a hack, "Dr. Phil" has never been confused with a pediatrician.

Now, I can certainly agree that, nine times out of ten, when people say someone is "a doctor" without any kind of qualifier, they're indicating a medical or psychological doctor. I can also agree that medical doctor is more often the intent. But that's not what we're debating here.

The title of doctor requires only one thing: a doctorate in a particular field. That is, in fact, why it is called a doctorate. It's perfectly correct for Dr. Mark to call himself Dr. Mark. Why? Because he is Dr. Mark. And no, he doesn't have to append PsyD to his name to be correct.

Now, to avoid confusion, most Drs. do tend to add the type of doctor to the end.

Dr. Smith, DDS.
Dr. House, MD.
Dr. Johnson, Ed. D.

And also when someone asks me what I do and I say "a doctor", it should be obvious the meaning of the word isn't intended to be "someone who is master of something". That would be a ridiculous and pointless reply giving no information as to my profession.

Colloquial use of a term doesn't negate the meaning of the term. It just means in certain cases, more context is expected because of certain assumptions. What's more, you're not talking about a title anymore.

If someone says, "I'm Dr. Campbell," that's a correct use of the title regardless of what their doctorate may be. If I say, "I'm a doctor," instead of "I'm a doctor of music composition," I'm not providing enough information. I'm misusing the colloquial understanding. What I'm saying isn't incorrect, but it is unclear and ambiguous in many situations. Having the title of doctor, and saying you're "A doctor" have different connotations, but neither is correct or incorrect universally.

Dr. Mark is Dr. Mark. He's a psychological doctor. His title is perfectly fine to use, because it is 100% correct and accurate. Now, if he was just running around saying, "Trust me, I'm a doctor," you could argue he's being deliberately misleading.

 

[Susan Arendt]

Perhaps you should listen to him because he personally suffered from game addiction, has been in clinical practice for more than 20 years, has actual experience treating people with a wide variety of issues, and, unlike many medical professionals, doesn't immediately assuming gaming is worthless.

Or you could just keep trolling because he chooses to use the title that he earned.

 

[Mark J Kline]

snip

If you have a PHD then you are a doctor.

Please keep your criticisms respectful and on-topic.

 

[Salad Is Murder]

But he does know about this. And you should trust him. He's recommending a non-medical solution to a habitual problem that's common sense and widely accepted practice, you don't *need* a qualification to suggest pattern-recognition as a solution to addictive gaming. Are we really suggesting that being a Doctor means that you *can't* give the most basic, sound answer because you haven't done the training? Especially in the light of his recommendation of seeking further help, I think it's either paranoid or pedantic to say that a GP can't give the same answer you could readily accept of the half-informed man on the street.
.

Sigh. No we're not saying an MD can't give this advice, but only that it's misleading to give it in a column presenting itself as medical advice. As someone below said, it's not a case of chemical dependence. Go see a psychologist. Next we'll see Dr. Mark giving legal advice and when criticism comes I'll be saying the same thing - there's nothing about being a doctor that qualifies you to give that advice no matter how basic it is.

That is not my quote in your reply, please change it to the person who actually said it(Ultra Joe) or remove it.

snip

If you have a PHD then you are a doctor.

Please keep your criticisms respectful and on-topic.

All due respect: you may be considered a doctor if you have a PHD, but the distance between that and an MD, MBBS or even a DO could be as large as the the distance from my butt to the moon; and if making a Dr. Mario joke is disrespectful or off-topic on a video game forum then I have no idea what we're all doing here.

...unlike many medical professionals, doesn't immediately assuming gaming is worthless.

Or you could just keep trolling because he chooses to use the title that he earned.

I'm a medical professional and I don't assume gaming is worthless; are you trolling me now?

 

[Mark J Kline]

snip

If you have a PHD then you are a doctor.

Please keep your criticisms respectful and on-topic.

All due respect: you may be considered a doctor if you have a PHD.

The question was whether or not Dr.Mark was a doctor. We are answering you: Yes. He is a doctor. If you have a PHD, you are a doctor, and so it follows that it's completely within your rights to refer to yourself as such. Many professors at universities also go by the title "Doctor", despite not having medical degrees.

We're happy to hear jokes about video games, provided that they are funny or at the very least respectfully on-topic.

 

[Susan Arendt]

...unlike many medical professionals, doesn't immediately assuming gaming is worthless.

Or you could just keep trolling because he chooses to use the title that he earned.

I'm a medical professional and I don't assume gaming is worthless; are you trolling me now?

That doesn't even make any sense. I said the trolling applied to saying he couldn't call himself "doctor" despite being one, not the attitude about gaming.

 

[Staskala]

You can go on simply insisting you're right, but it's not providing your case any weight whatsoever. If I make mention of "Dr. Freud," no one wonders if I'm referencing some obscure gastroenterologist.

Slightly off-topic, but Freud was a Dr. med. (MD), i.e. he held a doctorate in medicine. I don't even know if Austria has a specific equivalent to the anglosaxon PsyD, Germany at least doesn't and groups doctorates in psychology under Dr. phil. (PhD).
In any case, he would have been called "Dr. Freud" regardless, because over here the title literally is "Dr." with only the discipline added afterwards. Dr. med., Dr. phil., Dr. iur., Dr. rer. nat., and so on. Makes things a bit easier judging from this thread.

 

[Salad Is Murder]

snip

If you have a PHD then you are a doctor.

Please keep your criticisms respectful and on-topic.

All due respect: you may be considered a doctor if you have a PHD.

The question was whether or not Dr.Mark was a doctor. We are answering you: Yes. He is a doctor. If you have a PHD, you are a doctor, and so it follows that it's completely within your rights to refer to yourself as such. Many professors at universities also go by the title "Doctor", despite not having medical degrees.

We're happy to hear jokes about video games, provided that they are funny or at the very least respectfully on-topic.

My friend has a doctorate in ancient religion, do you want to go to him for medical advice? I can give you his email.

 

[Amaury_games]

Dear Dr. Mark

Why should we listen to a doctor for a question about gaming addiction when they aren't likely to know any more about it than the average person on the street?

Because his advice is sound and is an acknowledged method for overcoming non-chemical addiction? Because identifying habit triggers and cognitive dysfunctions is a proven method for breaking poor habit cycles? Because he's a compassionate (seemingly) individual with a record of sound writing on video-game addiction? Because being a doctor doesn't disqualify you from knowing the basics on how to advise somebody in this situation? Because he also states that if the problem is severe and persists a professional should be contacted?

Any of those, really.

This. Thank you Ultrajoe, for writing exactly what went through my mind. I think it's a shame when people go to articles like this, that are giving advice that I find so helpful and well-written and can also be applied to other stuff than gaming habits, and make a discussion about the person giving the advice, instead of adding other kind of perspective to the advice subject.
By the way, excellent article, Dr.!

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

We're not talking etymology, but the use of the word, in public use, as a title. When I have a column called "ask Dr. Blood Brain Barrier" with no more information there is the assumption that I'm a physician and not a lawyer, physiotherapist or priest no matter what qualifications I have. I don't know where you live but it would have to be a strange place for that not to be the case. End of story.

You can go on simply insisting you're right, but it's not providing your case any weight whatsoever. If I make mention of "Dr. Freud," no one wonders if I'm referencing some obscure gastroenterologist. And while I think the guy's a hack, "Dr. Phil" has never been confused with a pediatrician.

Now, I can certainly agree that, nine times out of ten, when people say someone is "a doctor" without any kind of qualifier, they're indicating a medical or psychological doctor. I can also agree that medical doctor is more often the intent. But that's not what we're debating here.

The title of doctor requires only one thing: a doctorate in a particular field. That is, in fact, why it is called a doctorate. It's perfectly correct for Dr. Mark to call himself Dr. Mark. Why? Because he is Dr. Mark. And no, he doesn't have to append PsyD to his name to be correct.

Now, to avoid confusion, most Drs. do tend to add the type of doctor to the end.

Dr. Smith, DDS.
Dr. House, MD.
Dr. Johnson, Ed. D.

And also when someone asks me what I do and I say "a doctor", it should be obvious the meaning of the word isn't intended to be "someone who is master of something". That would be a ridiculous and pointless reply giving no information as to my profession.

Colloquial use of a term doesn't negate the meaning of the term. It just means in certain cases, more context is expected because of certain assumptions. What's more, you're not talking about a title anymore.

If someone says, "I'm Dr. Campbell," that's a correct use of the title regardless of what their doctorate may be. If I say, "I'm a doctor," instead of "I'm a doctor of music composition," I'm not providing enough information. I'm misusing the colloquial understanding. What I'm saying isn't incorrect, but it is unclear and ambiguous in many situations. Having the title of doctor, and saying you're "A doctor" have different connotations, but neither is correct or incorrect universally.

Dr. Mark is Dr. Mark. He's a psychological doctor. His title is perfectly fine to use, because it is 100% correct and accurate. Now, if he was just running around saying, "Trust me, I'm a doctor," you could argue he's being deliberately misleading.

Let's get this "title" business out of the way, since it's not even the original point: If all this was completely true then medical professionals who don't have a doctorate but are entitled to practice medicine wouldn't be called doctors. Claiming that medical doctors can't call themself doctors because they don't have a doctorate is beyond silly, especially when the primary definition for "doctor" is "a person who is qualified to treat people who are ill" (Oxford dictionary). I go to my GP all the time. He's called Dr. (name), but doesn't hold a doctorate. How does that work?

What this tells us is that it's the way that we use words that matter, not correct usage. It's neither correct nor incorrect to say "I want to see the doctor" when the person concerned doesn't have a doctorate, because it's understood that you want to see the medical practitioner, and it's been understood that way for many hundreds of years. Now when you go see a lawyer you don't say "I want to see the doctor" - though that may be strictly correct because he holds an LLD, it's simply not what is said in common usage. Try going to your local lawyer's office and say that line to the receptionist. If you don't get any confused looks, then I'll yield to your views 100%.

The bold part of your post is all that I was ever saying. It seems we don't really disagree after all.

 

[LaughingJester]

I think this topic has got off the beaten track somewhat...

 

[Doom-Slayer]

My friend has a doctorate in ancient religion, do you want to go to him for medical advice? I can give you his email.

Claiming that medical doctors can't call themself doctors because they don't have a doctorate is beyond silly, especially when the primary definition for "doctor" is "a person who is qualified to treat people who are ill" (Oxford dictionary). I go to my GP all the time. He's called Dr. (name), but doesn't hold a doctorate. How does that work?

The term doctor describing a person that practices medicine, and the title doctor are two different things. This has been said many many many times. This is not a difficult concept.

From the freaking Oxford Dictionary.

doctor

Pronunciation: /ˈdɒktə/
noun

1 person who is qualified to treat people who are ill: [as title]: Doctor Thornhill

2 (Doctor) a person who holds the highest university degree:

THIS IS NOT DIFFICULT. Popular/Common usage is irrelevant. That is what the word means. Deal.


ANYWAY. Its actually a very interesting article because even without knowing that Dr.Mark played WoW(up until he says it) you can get the impression that he has been through that exact situation. A good read all around, I might need to send in my own question at some point.