Kickstarter: Proceed with Caution

[wintercoat]

We live in the world were gamers take legal action because they don't like the end of story, so the risk is real.

Could people please stop saying shit like this? It was one fucking guy. Since when does one person doing something become a general description of a group of people? By this same logic, we live in a world where gamers hunt down and kill people for killing them in a game.


Just stop bringing up the god damned FTC suit already. It was a clear attention grab, and everyone agrees he was a fucking idiot.

Everyone except the FTC who agreed he had a point. I don't think it would ultimately be all that helpful if publishers couldn't lie blatantly and openly about the features of a game and instead had to lie sneakily but the FTC do and exist to enforce that line.

It was a woman at the Better Business Bureau that stated that Bioware and EA were guilty of false advertising. And I agree, they are. However, this was not a case that needed federal attention. Filing with the FTC was moronic, and again a clear attention grab.

 

[Danzavare]

I can't help but wish that the people making the big financial decisions were businessmen AND gamers. It doesn't seem too unreasonable, I know plenty of people who study business and play video games. Oh well, maybe we'll see that change in years to come.

On topic: I'm interested in the new kickstarter trend but not optimistic. I think the first complete games that come out of it will really define what's to come of it. Even if there are problems down the road (Which I suspect there will be), if we have a few good examples of how kickstarter is supposed to work at the start we'll have a sense of confidence in the system. If the first few projects disappoint or fail then I think future projects will have a hard time restoring confidence in potential backers.

Captcha: that's right

Well if the captcha agrees then I must be right~!

 

[80Maxwell08]

A quick note Wasteland 2 raised over 3 million when you add in the Paypal funds. Now then I agree that there's plenty of scams on there already and some of them are have already succeeded. Echoes of Eternia comes to mind. Though if you want to get into semantics it could be considered not a scam if they actually make a game but it still is asking for $10,000 to make a game with a free engine. They have gotten $40,000 for this....if you'll now excuse me I have my own kickstarter to make called Yx The Solemn Vow in Felghana.

 

[Cry Wolf]

PUTTING A PETITION WITH THE FCC

Oh no! Consumers go through the correct means when products are falsely advertised! How dare they compromise artistic integrity by complaining when something was falsely advertised!

Sigh.

You know what? Disagreeing with the Retake Mass Effect movement is fine. Even loathing the movement is fine. However, complaining about people going through the proper channels when a product was obviously falsely advertised is just bloody stupid. Why should games be exempt from false advertising laws? Why is it a false sense of entiltement when we expect that games can't just blatantly lie to get sales?

TL;DR - You sound like an idiot who has jumped on the crying over "something something entiltement" fad.

Kickstarter: Proceed with Caution

Shamus takes a peek into Kickstarter game funding.

Read Full Article

I really hope you're right, because I believe the Kickstarter method of funding won?t survive and I desperately want it to. I mean, I'm getting a proper bloody Shadowrun game out of it making Kickstarter the most awesome thing since Inception. How could I not love it?

 

[Li Mu]

If Wasteland 2 fails I'm out $50. So what? At least I enabled a developer to continue having a job without having their passion for making games get sucked dry by a publisher.

Well said. It's not often that I see a mature post on these forums.

 

[draythefingerless]

PUTTING A PETITION WITH THE FCC

Oh no! Consumers go through the correct means when products are falsely advertised! How dare they compromise artistic integrity by complaining when something was falsely advertised!

Sigh.

You know what? Disagreeing with the Retake Mass Effect movement is fine. Even loathing the movement is fine. However, complaining about people going through the proper channels when a product was obviously falsely advertised is just bloody stupid. Why should games be exempt from false advertising laws? Why is it a false sense of entiltement when we expect that games can't just blatantly lie to get sales?

TL;DR - You sound like an idiot who has jumped on the crying over "something something entiltement" fad.

Kickstarter: Proceed with Caution

Shamus takes a peek into Kickstarter game funding.

Read Full Article

I really hope you're right, because I believe the Kickstarter method of funding won?t survive and I desperately want it to. I mean, I'm getting a proper bloody Shadowrun game out of it making Kickstarter the most awesome thing since Inception. How could I not love it?

lol so its ok now to sue people on subjective terms? learn what youre talking about buddy. im surprised youre complaining about the FCC thing, wich is the ridiculous thing, and not about the Retake movement, wich is a sane thing despite being a bit guilt ridden. hey i didnt like that i paid 2 euros for limbo and it ammounts to a shitty short game that i can play tons better for free on newgrounds. im gonna sue the guys who made it for falsely advertising a game with rich and deep complex themes, cause i didnt get that. sounds about right doesnt it? oh hey the new street fighter game was putting a character in one of its trailers for about 5 seconds, but that character isnt in the final game. SUE SUE SUEEEEEEE FOR MAKING DEVELOPMENT CHOICES THAT AFFECT ME. actually i remember people complaining that the trailer for SF4 overhyped the game and they felt let down that the final game wasnt so awesome. :/.

 

[MonkeyPunch]

Well said. I too have thought of this and am waiting for something to go terribly wrong.
It really is just a matter of time.
Especially since recently I've seen so many kickstarter projects.

There's so much potential for scams and semi-scams (start a genuine kickstarter but don't really put any effort or money in to it so that if fails and you are left with some extra cash etc.)

 

[DustyDrB]

Maybe I'm naive, but I assume everyone (OK...just about everyone) knows that backing a project on Kickstarter isn't like buying a game off a shelf. The details will be fuzzy, and there will always be a risk. I just assume that people in general accept that risk.

The Retake Mass Effect movement showed me that there are a lot of people who don't.

Retake Mass Effect is a bit of a different thing, though I don't feel like getting into that.

The risk is greater when backing a project on Kickstarter. The details are fuzzier, and it's just so early in development (if at all). If that risk isn't apparent to someone who backs the project, then I wonder how it is they figured out how to turn the computer on.

Maybe I'm naive, but I assume everyone (OK...just about everyone) knows that backing a project on Kickstarter isn't like buying a game off a shelf. The details will be fuzzy, and there will always be a risk. I just assume that people in general accept that risk.

I know cynicism soon follows the tide of goodwill, but hopefully people won't overreact when a project fails. You're not buying a game, you're backing the development of it. Receiving the game (assuming you donated enough, which usually isn't that much) is a bonus. Despite the risk and the inevitable blowback in reaction to scams or failure, Kickstarter is great to me because it can reinvigorate niche genres.

You are naive. There are a ton of self important and entitled people who will flip out if a project they backed gets cancelled. Expect people to curse and moan, to say they are going to sue, to say they got "ripped off". I am just talking about a legit project that fails. I don't think most people even realize what exactly Kickstarter is or what it means when they back a game.

I really have trouble believing most people don't understand the difference between backing a Kickstarter project and buying a game off the shelf (or Steam...or whatever). We'll see, though.

The good thing is that if they think backing a project meant they are guaranteed to get a game they'd love, they are wrong. Objectively wrong. So when that day comes, the rest of us can shower them in sympathy [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4] for their misunderstanding and constructive criticism [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY].

 

[Rack]

Everyone except the FTC who agreed he had a point. I don't think it would ultimately be all that helpful if publishers couldn't lie blatantly and openly about the features of a game and instead had to lie sneakily but the FTC do and exist to enforce that line.

It was a woman at the Better Business Bureau that stated that Bioware and EA were guilty of false advertising. And I agree, they are. However, this was not a case that needed federal attention. Filing with the FTC was moronic, and again a clear attention grab.

Oops, I should have looked into this more closely before posting, I hadn't grasped the relation between the FTC and BBB and had assumed the FTC was an equivalent to our ASA (Advertising Standards Authority). An ASA complaint of false advertising would be perfectly reasonable since that's exactly what it was but it seems the FTC is not the place for such complaints.

 

[dessertmonkeyjk]

Technically, not only are you backing up a project you are interested in getting but also showing that you are confident about the team who is making it happen. If the team fails, the project fails and it's more or less your own fault for gambling for the losing team.

I just hope most people don't outweight the construction workers over the building for these Kickstarter projects.

 

[Alterego-X]

I'm yet to see a single person on a gaming website who isn't aware of the fact that crowdsourcing means gambling.

Sure there are people IN THE WORLD who don't know this, but all of the few ten thousands who got into it since the Double Fine Adventure/Wasteland 2 explosion heard from it on gaming websites, and those constantly keep nattering about it with the same vaguely paranoid tone as elderly people talk about online stores. "Whaat??!! Paying for things that you don't even see? How do you know that they really exist? I don't trust these newfangled ideas!"

 

[mfeff]

Ahhh how soon we forget...


Donor beware one would say... although "being" the kickstarter... may be an interesting study of creative accounting... gunna have to look into that.

 

[PunkRex]

People just have to remember exactly what an investment is. Sometimes things go tits up, just have a little cry and try again if you have the moolah.

 

[Cry Wolf]

PUTTING A PETITION WITH THE FCC

Oh no! Consumers go through the correct means when products are falsely advertised! How dare they compromise artistic integrity by complaining when something was falsely advertised!

Sigh.

You know what? Disagreeing with the Retake Mass Effect movement is fine. Even loathing the movement is fine. However, complaining about people going through the proper channels when a product was obviously falsely advertised is just bloody stupid. Why should games be exempt from false advertising laws? Why is it a false sense of entiltement when we expect that games can't just blatantly lie to get sales?

TL;DR - You sound like an idiot who has jumped on the crying over "something something entiltement" fad.

Kickstarter: Proceed with Caution

Shamus takes a peek into Kickstarter game funding.

Read Full Article

I really hope you're right, because I believe the Kickstarter method of funding won?t survive and I desperately want it to. I mean, I'm getting a proper bloody Shadowrun game out of it making Kickstarter the most awesome thing since Inception. How could I not love it?

lol so its ok now to sue people on subjective terms? learn what youre talking about buddy. im surprised youre complaining about the FCC thing, wich is the ridiculous thing, and not about the Retake movement, wich is a sane thing despite being a bit guilt ridden. hey i didnt like that i paid 2 euros for limbo and it ammounts to a shitty short game that i can play tons better for free on newgrounds. im gonna sue the guys who made it for falsely advertising a game with rich and deep complex themes, cause i didnt get that. sounds about right doesnt it? oh hey the new street fighter game was putting a character in one of its trailers for about 5 seconds, but that character isnt in the final game. SUE SUE SUEEEEEEE FOR MAKING DEVELOPMENT CHOICES THAT AFFECT ME. actually i remember people complaining that the trailer for SF4 overhyped the game and they felt let down that the final game wasnt so awesome. :/.

The problem is, that's not what the complaint is about (also, complaint doesn't actually mean a law suit. That word does not mean what you think it means). While I'm a bit sketchy on the specifics (e.g., who said what) but the law suit was actually over a statement about how the endings would work (or in this case, wouldn't work) when in fact, that was false. There weren't any subjective terms there.

With the Street Fighter example, if we were shown that we could play said character - then it would be false advertising. If we were shown we could fight that character, then it would be false advertising. It gets a little sketchy just showing it. That said, my entire legal background is a few semesters of Legal Studies in high school.

People complaining about an overhyped trailer? Eh, whatever. If they put in a complaint about false advertising, then we're getting back to true gamer entitlement issues.

Oh, and on a side note: it's fucking hard to read your mess of a post. You might want to edit it a bit. Or go take some remedial English classes if that doesn?t work.

 

[grigjd3]

I think the internet amplifies the voices of those who don't know how to let go. Heck, my own ranting here suggests a certain grip on society that I am not willing to give up. To be honest, the retake ME3 movement is a small section of the people who bought it (I just bought it today). Most people will be willing to section themselves off from the result enough so that if they lose their imagined investment. However, the internet magnifies negative responses and the media loves to pour salt on wounds and exaggerate conflict so we'd definitely hear about something going south. The real answer to me is to just kill off EA and Activision as companies and let the process keep going but that has nothing to do with this article.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

So enjoy the honeymoon while it lasts. I have high hopes for Kickstarter, but I suspect there will be a bit of a shake-out period as everyone figures out how this new funding model is going to work.

I think the crowd sourcing model will have 2 major tests - the first being the failure of a high profile project and the second being the actions of the developers of high profile projects post-release.

I can skip the first as you've covered that... but I think what happens with Double Fine, inXile, Hare Brained Schemes and the like when it's time to start looking at new projects after the current crop are out is going to be another test for the crowd sourcing model. Double Fine and inXile are, for lack of a better term, the headline acts for crowd sourced game development so their fortunes and future decisions could have a major impact on the model.

Of course, should only the high profile, industry veteran led projects succeed that too would have an impact on the crowd sourcing model, leading it to be fenced off for everyone else by the perception that you have to have name value for it to be of any use.

I think the worst outcome, even worse than crowd sourcing just curling up and dying, is major publishers deciding that the crowd sourced model is even better than pre-orders for recouping as much cash as possible before launch.

 

[Ren3004]

I can finally own a greasy box that was touched by Shamus Young?! Sign me up. Sign me up right now!

 

[unacomn]

There are still plenty of mid-budget games, the problem is, since they're not made by Bioware Arts, or Activision-Duty, no one really cares enough about them to spread the word, and compensate for the low marketing budget. I am looking at you mainstream US gaming press, you're doing a bad job at promoting games.
You've got Stardock, Paradox Interactive, 1C Company, Kalypso Media, Deep Silver and a ton more, that publish/produce mid budget games. Not all of them have a high life expectancy though, like dtp or JoWooD, because they tend to aim to high for the budgets they have, and we end up with a lot of unplayable games.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

There are still plenty of mid-budget games, the problem is, since they're not made by Bioware Arts, or Activision-Duty, no one really cares enough about them to spread the word, and compensate for the low marketing budget. I am looking at you mainstream US gaming press, you're doing a bad job at promoting games.

I think that many middle tier developed titles being PC titles doesn't help either when the mainstream gaming media is primarily focused on consoles.

 

[Antitonic]

[sub]Shamus Young is currently setting up a Kickstarter page to get the funds for a large Coke and a pizza. Pledge now and you can have the greasy box.[/sub]

I'd be wary, Kickstarter seems to dislike projects like that... [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/650619314/699938694?token=300565af]

I view Kickstarter and similar sites in the same way I view gambling: don't spend money you're not willing to lose. If any of the projects I've backed go under, yes it's annoying, but that's the game you have to play. Do you trust the project and/or the people running it enough to gamble on it? If not, back out without putting money down. If you do, you're interested in the potential results, and you have money not doing anything, why not?