Kickstarter: Proceed with Caution
- Thread starter Shamus Young
- Start date
The problem is, that's not what the complaint is about (also, complaint doesn't actually mean a law suit. That word does not mean what you think it means). While I'm a bit sketchy on the specifics (e.g., who said what) but the law suit was actually over a statement about how the endings would work (or in this case, wouldn't work) when in fact, that was false. There weren't any subjective terms there.draythefingerless said:
With the Street Fighter example, if we were shown that we could play said character - then it would be false advertising. If we were shown we could fight that character, then it would be false advertising. It gets a little sketchy just showing it. That said, my entire legal background is a few semesters of Legal Studies in high school.
People complaining about an overhyped trailer? Eh, whatever. If they put in a complaint about false advertising, then we're getting back to true gamer entitlement issues.
Oh, and on a side note: it's fucking hard to read your mess of a post. You might want to edit it a bit. Or go take some remedial English classes if that doesn?t work.
I think the internet amplifies the voices of those who don't know how to let go. Heck, my own ranting here suggests a certain grip on society that I am not willing to give up. To be honest, the retake ME3 movement is a small section of the people who bought it (I just bought it today). Most people will be willing to section themselves off from the result enough so that if they lose their imagined investment. However, the internet magnifies negative responses and the media loves to pour salt on wounds and exaggerate conflict so we'd definitely hear about something going south. The real answer to me is to just kill off EA and Activision as companies and let the process keep going but that has nothing to do with this article.
I think the crowd sourcing model will have 2 major tests - the first being the failure of a high profile project and the second being the actions of the developers of high profile projects post-release.Shamus Young said:
I can skip the first as you've covered that... but I think what happens with Double Fine, inXile, Hare Brained Schemes and the like when it's time to start looking at new projects after the current crop are out is going to be another test for the crowd sourcing model. Double Fine and inXile are, for lack of a better term, the headline acts for crowd sourced game development so their fortunes and future decisions could have a major impact on the model.
Of course, should only the high profile, industry veteran led projects succeed that too would have an impact on the crowd sourcing model, leading it to be fenced off for everyone else by the perception that you have to have name value for it to be of any use.
I think the worst outcome, even worse than crowd sourcing just curling up and dying, is major publishers deciding that the crowd sourced model is even better than pre-orders for recouping as much cash as possible before launch.
There are still plenty of mid-budget games, the problem is, since they're not made by Bioware Arts, or Activision-Duty, no one really cares enough about them to spread the word, and compensate for the low marketing budget. I am looking at you mainstream US gaming press, you're doing a bad job at promoting games.
You've got Stardock, Paradox Interactive, 1C Company, Kalypso Media, Deep Silver and a ton more, that publish/produce mid budget games. Not all of them have a high life expectancy though, like dtp or JoWooD, because they tend to aim to high for the budgets they have, and we end up with a lot of unplayable games.
You've got Stardock, Paradox Interactive, 1C Company, Kalypso Media, Deep Silver and a ton more, that publish/produce mid budget games. Not all of them have a high life expectancy though, like dtp or JoWooD, because they tend to aim to high for the budgets they have, and we end up with a lot of unplayable games.
I think that many middle tier developed titles being PC titles doesn't help either when the mainstream gaming media is primarily focused on consoles.unacomn said:
I'd be wary, Kickstarter seems to dislike projects like that... [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/650619314/699938694?token=300565af]Shamus Young said:
I view Kickstarter and similar sites in the same way I view gambling: don't spend money you're not willing to lose. If any of the projects I've backed go under, yes it's annoying, but that's the game you have to play. Do you trust the project and/or the people running it enough to gamble on it? If not, back out without putting money down. If you do, you're interested in the potential results, and you have money not doing anything, why not?
Kickstarter projects have risk and eventually one will fail spectacularly. However, I look at the concept as a good thing simply because it is breaking the strangle-hold that big publishers have on on game developers.
My real hope for the project is that it provides competition for publisher based game creation which should improve games overall.
My real hope for the project is that it provides competition for publisher based game creation which should improve games overall.
The beauty here though, is that you're too drunk to remember to complain, though.SirBryghtside said:
Uh.... Suggestion: If you want to use something as evidence of some people using Kickstarter as a scam in the future, don't use something so goddamn self-important. It ruins the argument. Something Awful's "Awful Kickstarters [http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3481321]" thread has, like, dozens of examples of scams to link to.mfeff said:
Surely to a certain degree, Kickstarter must be used in a sustainable manner? In that if it gets too big, then it will become an victim of it's own success meaning that the whole idea will collapse. But if it is kept niche and a labor of love type of thing then great, it's kept within a knowledge base of individuals who understand the risks.
Look it's easy to make fun of people's ignorance, but people do make mistakes and seeing as I like the idea of kickstarter I hope it continues for as long as possible.
Look it's easy to make fun of people's ignorance, but people do make mistakes and seeing as I like the idea of kickstarter I hope it continues for as long as possible.
You're going to need to define "indie." To me it means without a publisher and Bastion is published by Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment a company outside the developer.
I'm more worried about what happens when people, who have varied tastes and ideas about how something will turn out, fund a game expecting one thing and get something entirely different in the end. Just because you back a game that sound like its right for you doesn't mean that the end product will meet your expectation (especially when a few thousand backers all have slightly different expectations). What happens when people start to feel that their money was misspent and get more tight fisted and careful to ensure not wasting money again? How long is kick-starter going to be a way for any joe to get his game funded before things start to level out and what will happen to crowd-sourcing after that? Is this just a fad?
I'm more worried about what happens when people, who have varied tastes and ideas about how something will turn out, fund a game expecting one thing and get something entirely different in the end. Just because you back a game that sound like its right for you doesn't mean that the end product will meet your expectation (especially when a few thousand backers all have slightly different expectations). What happens when people start to feel that their money was misspent and get more tight fisted and careful to ensure not wasting money again? How long is kick-starter going to be a way for any joe to get his game funded before things start to level out and what will happen to crowd-sourcing after that? Is this just a fad?
Yeah, they love to talk about how cold their beer is, and as Kyle Cease has addressed, the coldness of the beer is kind of 100% up to the consumer.SirBryghtside said:
Like your link I don't own it. Ergo the link you provided is akin to the video I provided. I no more claim ownership than you can claim ownership. If you feel that it's content is self-important may I suggest you take it up with the creator of said video.Formica Archonis said:
That said, I didn't make an argument.
Nor did I claim that AVGN has done anything immoral, unethical, or illegal.
The video "tangentially" does make a case for donation style cash infusions not being tied to any A) oversight, B) guarantee as to "how" money is to be used.
Now, perhaps you could of said... that's an interesting video, if not for it's own self importance, how about you check out this link?
You didn't.
You attacked it as "being" self important without saying why.
You said I ruined an argument, I did no such thing because I made no argument, I made a broken statement, punctuated by a random video, and mentioned looking into the financials of "starting" a kickstarter. You addressed none of that.
I posted a video, you posted a link. Great!
Hey but thanks for alleging to my own self-importance. At the going rate, I fit right in... hell, we should be friends.
Okay, then. That's a rather more aggrieved response than I was ever expecting, but assuming you're not trolling me and I really did offend you that badly, I apologize and promise to not comment on what you post again lest I be similarly offensive.mfeff said:
Nah dude it's cool. In fact on one hand I agree that the video is everything you said it was. However, it's an opinion piece... his channel is geared towards "a critique of critics". His yahtzee stuff is really funny... in a certain light. That said, and on the other hand I find that his opinion is just that, and transparently so. Making it no different than 99 percent of the content of the escapist.Formica Archonis said:
I found it fitting especially when Shamus said "...enjoy the honeymoon". There was a similarity in tone, someone sarcastic, somewhat annoyed. I focused on the emotional tangent rather than the explicit content or even context.
So... comment away, please! I enjoy a good debate, so long as we are to have one. It's something that I find sorely lacking in the halls of the forums. As the saying goes, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
While we are here... I do dislike heavily leveraged ontological arguments... so if you make one, and I come off as butt-hurt... well, I am generally... it's an annoyance with the framing normally, mostly because it's oft times... done poorly.