Things are BETTER? Things are worse than fucking every. More women are unhappy, and more are on antidepressants than ever before. The only people things today are good for are attractive, intelligent men. Why is that? Because feminism. So, good job to feminists, I guess. lol.
Well, if you're not just trying to get a reaction you sure as hell better be prepared to back up your claims about how feminism has caused women's lives to get worse somehow. Are you saying we'd all be happier if we were shackled to the kitchen and reduced to baby factories? Because feminism started in a time where women who weren't happy about this were literally treated as mentally ill.
To address one claim you made, more women (more people period) are on anti-depressants than ever before because anti-depressants are more available and more readily prescribed than ever before. If you can link those facts to feminism, be my guest. Until then I'll leave this here:
This is a thing now? Please point me to all these games you're apparently playing that respectfully portray individuals of a wide range of backgrounds.
Whoa, simmer down Nancy. It just kind of sticks out a bit especially when there's a closeup on the controller. I apparently also find the fingernails a bit gaudy, I guess. Now, as all you've done is mock a side point I made, I don't know which side of the fence you are on in this issue. But, you are making the assertion that the existence of elements of a stereotype does not proclaim acceptance of said stereotype. So what's wrong with video game characters exhibiting them. Princess Peach is not a portrayal of women, she is a portrayal of one fictional woman, named Princess Peach. Why is it an issue that she wears heels (among other things but you get what I mean).
Lol, I did get a bit hyperbolic. Pardon me, I've been bored senseless all day.
The problem isn't that these tropes exist at all, it's that female characters contribution to gaming can be pretty much summed up in one word (`Boing`). Real people are more complicated than that. Hardly anyone really conforms to one stereotype.
Female characters with a bit more depth and variety really is what I'm pushing for. Moviebob's Gender Games episode did a good job of addressing that.
Alright, then what is the point of this girl making videos about current stereotypical archetypes. If the issue is needing more deep female characters, then what is this girl making video's to "break down" known archetypes for? On that note......they're known archetypes, what is there to break down if they're already the popular archetypes. Wouldn't a kickstarter be better used to like, make a new game or help fund a company(s) making a game with a deep female protagonist. How is getting the internet to pay her to make a handful of ranting videos helping diversify the field.
I mean agreed, deeper, less formulaic characters are good. Brave looks kinda cool. I cringed too seeing that it's already a doll. Point is being against this particular girl's project.
I would like to see a game with a true female protagonist, as opposed to character created female leads like in Mass Effect. Someone make a game of the manga of Nausica and the Valley of the Wind. That would be rather amazing.
Unrelated to the quote response:
Wow the post above where I'm currently typing is angry as hell. Chill pills people. Vulgar language does not assist either side here. Love when people turn around and stereotype the gaming community in response to stereotypes. Someone saying f the gaming community in response to some being jerks is kinda putting yourself on the same level. Do I think all women belong in the kitchen? No. Unless they like to cook. Then good on ya.
On a related note I totally thought "ovendodger" was a crack about women and kitchens, at first. I am feel dumb.
I would like to see a game with a true female protagonist, as opposed to character created female leads like in Mass Effect. Someone make a game of the manga of Nausica and the Valley of the Wind. That would be rather amazing.
Haha, could you see someone trying to float that one by John Riccitiello?
"What do you mean we don't have a roided-up male to put on the box? But if she's on a glider, how can she take cover? Female characters wear practical armor when the situation calls for it? There's no final boss? We can't turn this into a franchise?"
Alright, then what is the point of this girl making videos about current stereotypical archetypes. If the issue is needing more deep female characters, then what is this girl making video's to "break down" known archetypes for? On that note......they're known archetypes, what is there to break down if they're already the popular archetypes. Wouldn't a kickstarter be better used to like, make a new game or help fund a company(s) making a game with a deep female protagonist. How is getting the internet to pay her to make a handful of ranting videos helping diversify the field.
I mean agreed, deeper, less formulaic characters are good. Brave looks kinda cool. I cringed too seeing that it's already a doll. Point is being against this particular girl's project.
I would like to see a game with a true female protagonist, as opposed to character created female leads like in Mass Effect. Someone make a game of the manga of Nausica and the Valley of the Wind. That would be rather amazing.
Unrelated to the quote response:
Wow the post above where I'm currently typing is angry as hell. Chill pills people. Vulgar language does not assist either side here. Love when people turn around and stereotype the gaming community in response to stereotypes. Someone saying f the gaming community in response to some being jerks is kinda putting yourself on the same level. Do I think all women belong in the kitchen? No. Unless they like to cook. Then good on ya.
On a related note I totally thought "ovendodger" was a crack about women and kitchens, at first. I am feel dumb.
I was never really here to debate her project. You might not see the point in it but obviously some people do. And perhaps breaking down tropes can show perhaps why they are easy to fall into and how to avoid lazy stereotyping *shrug*, but I'm just guessing. I don't get why people are getting so angry about her setting this project up. It's her free time, it's not your money if you donate.
Either way, the response is just bleh, and our community does have some probelms. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I've never been called a slut for reading a book or going to see a movie.
Sucks, but is true. It doesn't bother me as much as it used to though, all I think is if me gaming pisses off assholes then I should do it more. =P
And I'm aware not all our community is like this- but it's often overlooked and many people even insist it's not a problem any more.
I've watching some of the previous FF videos, and while I'm not 100% convinced the presenter is the ideal candidate for this project, I'm happy that it's being attempted and looking forward to seeing the finished results.
As horrifying as the misogyny is, I understand that these keyboard-chewers come with the territory. Write about feminism in computer games (fighting games in particular) and you'll attract various disparaging comments from the knuckle dragging fraternity. What I don't get is- where does the "Jew" stuff come from? Is it like a side-effect of Godwin's Law, that as the number of haters in a single arena increases, the likelihood of anti-jewish hatespeech approaches 100%?
Well, if you're not just trying to get a reaction you sure as hell better be prepared to back up your claims about how feminism has caused women's lives to get worse somehow. Are you saying we'd all be happier if we were shackled to the kitchen and reduced to baby factories? Because feminism started in a time where women who weren't happy about this were literally treated as mentally ill.
To address one claim you made, more women (more people period) are on anti-depressants than ever before because anti-depressants are more available and more readily prescribed than ever before. If you can link those facts to feminism, be my guest. Until then I'll leave this here:
To expand on my comment, I actually have a bit of a love/hate relationship with feminism, in a way. It's great for my sex life, but I don't enjoy what it's doing to society and women.
And I've already had this argument multiple times, I don't have time for it right now. I do have studies and sources for my claims, I just do not have the energy or the patience to look for them.
And I've already had this argument multiple times, I don't have time for it right now. I do have studies and sources for my claims, I just do not have the energy or the patience to look for them.
Why is it that in every feminism debate on this website the "I have evidence, I promise, I just don't have it with me" people are always on the anti-feminism side?
And I've already had this argument multiple times, I don't have time for it right now. I do have studies and sources for my claims, I just do not have the energy or the patience to look for them.
Why is it that in every feminism debate on this website the "I have evidence, I promise, I just don't have it with me" people are always on the anti-feminism side?
To expand on my comment, I actually have a bit of a love/hate relationship with feminism, in a way. It's great for my sex life, but I don't enjoy what it's doing to society and women.
And I've already had this argument multiple times, I don't have time for it right now. I do have studies and sources for my claims, I just do not have the energy or the patience to look for them.
And I've already had this argument multiple times, I don't have time for it right now. I do have studies and sources for my claims, I just do not have the energy or the patience to look for them.
Why is it that in every feminism debate on this website the "I have evidence, I promise, I just don't have it with me" people are always on the anti-feminism side?
I seriously with that these people could get punished for this, I just realized that my poor grammar made it hard to understand what I meant.
I seriously wish that the misogynistic trolls on the net would get punished, like maybe having their right to comment removed, like they're swearing using improper language and confuse logic with insults.
I think Critical Miss had a comic with this, someone accuses X of possibly being sexist/racist, you should talk about this calmly, you SHOULDN'T resort to actual sexism/racism.
Now someone did make a good statement that they get too aggressive because these are their fantasies and they don't want that removed.
Unfortunately that's not a healthy thing to idealize, wanting the opposite gender to be nothing more than an object of desire?
To turn the situation around how about I play a game where I shoot people with the faces of the people (if they can even be called that) with incredibly violent weaponry, I'd argue I'm not hurting a real person, and I have to vent my anger somehow. except my fantasy dehumanizes a person to nothing more than something to extract pleasure from by causing them to suffer.
I think many here agree that both A: the people on the net were in the wrong.
Problem is a few still think her point was invalid. that's my problem, because while being only a boy who doesn't understand the feminine perspective, I know for a fact that lots of Pop-Culture is targeted at teenage males.
ANd to those boys I'm going to say a few thing to your arguments
-Firstly being sexy and controlling men is NOT empowerment:
I see a few of you think this is true, Well here's a reverse Example, Imagine a Hercules like male, but he's a bully, he intimidates weaker men and threatens to rough them up even after they've given him what he demanded, what's more when someone asks why he does it it's because he can.
That character is unlikable, and yet imagine if he was supposed to be depicted as the archetype of masculinity, Guys like me would be pissed, because it implies all men are violent pricks.
-There's being Sexy and there's Exploitation:
Now in of itself making a character look attractive is a good thing, Link from the Legend of Zelda Series, Anatomy wise he's a young male, with average proportions except for the long ears. if he was a real person he'd look like an average guy if in strange clothing.
Now think of common body types in games if they were real people they'd look like this
Notice the waist, she would require some sort of brace to stand up straight, and that's if she was a normal person, lets not forget she's probably top heavy.
Also I find the blank emotionless face disturbing the emotionally dead eyes, i can't stand it.
Now to make a point, As I said before Link when given features, is designed to make him look appealing but in an average every-man sort of way.
as for the girl, we can clearly see she's had certain traits that are sexually appealing over emphasized to the point that it's not humanly possible, meaning her appearance is deliberately mean to be provocative. My reason for link is this, I don't doubt that many girls who play Zelda think he might in some versions look attractive, however no guy I know has ever had a problem with Links appearance, his appearance appeals to everyone not to a specific grouup (with the dolly girls case a bunch of teenage heterosexual males)
-Making a Female Character a cold heartless B!tch is not a strong female:
Sometimes people go to far and decide that if the Female character is hostile to any man (for extra points make her provocative at the same time), always angry, and never ever showing any signs of weakness or vulnerability, then it surely can't be sexist. which is just plain insulting, No guy is going to like her, no girl is going to like her why? because no one like a mean B!tch
All these problem stem from the same problem, Males who haven;t had a real proper and healthy relationship with a girl, (And no in this instance you mom doesn't count)
Let's face it a guy who is already in a good relationship with a girl, probably doesn't need to have some bizarre fantasy about women, because he has that link with someone of the opposite gender, someone he can share that part of his base instincts.
The biggest problem is that this instance is like a kid who likes a type of sweet tasting food that's bad for him, he keeps wanting to eat it but it just makes him worse, and taking it away from him seems like it's needed.
Now I'm not saying no game or movie or any entertainment should remove all sexuality, that be silly. What we have to remove is the use of pandering to the lowest male instincts to people who don't have the intelligence to realize they are being tricked.
Somehow I feel I'm going to get disagreements, but I will try to stem the tide by saying
if your a girl, ok go ahead, if your a guy, I'm only going to listen if you have something intelligent to say.
The problem with alot of movements is that its the assholes who are the ones that are loud and proud which probably explains(but doesnt excuse) The backlash she got. Usually when for example talking about african violence people are quick to point out(not all africans are bad etc etc) Maybe it would help if the same respect were givin to the average male who doesnt play games as a way to express "latent female dominant fantasies". Perhaps feminists should better acknowledge that we are all not out to get them and then a better understanding will be had.
Otherwise you just come off as someone attacking a guy for being a guy(Ie: having an attraction to a female)
Again this doesnt excuse the virulent hate that both sides seem more than happy to spew but spew they shall.
"Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde"
What on Youtube doesn't? Really, you can't post anything on Youtube without getting either racist, misogynist, or anti-semitic replies. Honestly, this is non-news.
Furthermore, you don't need money to do a Vlog. For accademic stuff, you don't need to pay for IP use (fair use clause), she clearly already has the video equipment if she can make a video to advertise her kickstarter. There are any number of websites where you can post video logs for free. So, I ask you, what the hell does she need $6000 for?
If she's got an interesting point to make and she makes it well, good on her, but given that it costs nothing (except time and the will) to make, if it was that important to her I don't think she'd be asking us to pay her for it beforehand.
To expand on my comment, I actually have a bit of a love/hate relationship with feminism, in a way. It's great for my sex life, but I don't enjoy what it's doing to society and women.
And I've already had this argument multiple times, I don't have time for it right now. I do have studies and sources for my claims, I just do not have the energy or the patience to look for them.
Why is it that in every feminism debate on this website the "I have evidence, I promise, I just don't have it with me" people are always on the anti-feminism side?
And for the record, I am very familiar with the feminism debate and its literature. I think I'm aware of which studies you're referring to, and they're contentious at best.
So once again, until you can back yourself up with actual evidence, forgive me if I continue to ignore your arguments.
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