Kid Rings Up $1700 Xbox Live Bill, Mom Blames Microsoft

[tiamont]

A couple things I want to add. As many have already stated, how did she not notice this? Just because she is working two jobs doesn't mean she has no time what-so-ever. Each job might only give her 20 hours a week. Hell, some people might have 5 jobs but it is a bit useless if each only gives you 8 hours a week. My mom was a single mom that worked two jobs, and good lord that woman knew where every single penny in the house went because she needed it. Obviously she doesn't balance her checkbook with a physical paper trail because that would require going "Okay, Microsoft charge for $10, grocery store was $55, another Microsoft charge for $20" ect. I sure as hell would notice if I had a couple deductions from a place I know I didn't go to. I even just now caught on my online statement that I used my debit card instead of my gas card at the station earlier.

Even if she was stupid for not keeping tabs, I'll agree Microsoft should have precautions for this. It is why I use the point cards and not my debit card. I wasn't aware it keeps your card and am now glad I don't have my card on the Xbox. Yes it is more frustrating so they can take your money, they are a business. But I work in customer service so I can just see the headache people would get if they had to re-enter their card for every single purchase. I get yelled at when I ask for people's ID when they use their debit card on a $3000 purchase. And if they made it so easy as to "hit X to cancel subscription, please put your password to confirm" there would be hundreds of people across the world calling every day because they accidentally canceled their subscription. These are the people that call to ask "When does your 7am to 11am sale start?" And there are thousands of them. You might say 'well that sucks to be them,' but I bet it sucks to be you if you're the one that calls a minute after them and has to wait on hold for 30 minutes while a customer service representative helps them, when you have a legitimate worry like warranty problems.

IF the article is to be believed, then she had no idea that the Xbox would keep her card to be so readily used. And therefore, have no idea that the card information could be used to purchase DLC. A little underhanded on Microsoft, sure, but bad on her for not doing any research. And apparently not understanding how renewals work, as in order to charge you for something again, they would have to KEEP your information. But since she wasn't aware it was saved she didn't "give the kid her card" as a lot of people are saying. The kid probably didn't understand or even think about it. If he didn't understand he was spending money, oh well, that's another topic about what you should teach your kids. I see a lot of people saying "If they implemented a PIN system this wouldn't have happened." For some cases it would be helpful, added security, and maybe make someone think twice for a second. I even agree there should be something like that before you purchase something. But I doubt it would have helped this kid. Here is why: Six months ago a happy 11 year old trots up to mum and goes "Mum, I want to buy this 100 point addon, can I have the PIN?" "Sure honey, it is 0123." And then on the next purchase he'd have the PIN already so wouldn't ask dear old mum, and since he apparently doesn't understand how money works on Xbox Live, he'd enter the PIN again on the next purchase. And on the next one. And again. And 'lo the events unfold beautifully as they did now, except taking slightly longer because he has to enter a PIN. Unless of course he realized that by entering the PIN it was costing more money, but to me it seems if he was going to realize this on his own, he'd realize it the 12th time he hit the ?Buy? button. A good system that would be handy, but would unlikely help in this specific case but would help in others.

In short: The kid should have understood it was costing money, the mom should have noticed this sooner, and Microsoft should think about adding some type of system to help stop this. They are computer people and should, and probably ARE, well aware this could happen. All program designers know that Einstein was right about the universe and human stupidity.

P.S. Holy crap wall of text, I apologize.

 

[Alorxico]

She claimed the youngster started to cry when she explained to him how much money he'd blown through, after which he unplugged his Xbox and said he didn't want it anymore.

What the **** did she say to that boy to not only make him start to cry but no longer want to play video games!?!

When I was 10, my father was laid off and we lived on a tight budget. While helping my mother grocery shop, I accidentally dropped a gallon of milk and the screaming fit my mother had followed by the horrible things she said to me were so terrifying that I refused to eat for two days. No, I'm not joking to make a point, I'm being truthful here. Parents get weird when money is tight and tend to exaggerate things to children because they don't think kids understand.

If my mom went balistic over a gallon of milk, WHAT did this woman say to her son!?

Then again, do I really want to know.

 

[Doctor What]

"When he is in gaming mode he can't be thinking about the money. You can't put all that responsibility on a young boy,"

I can't even begin to describe how wrong this is.

When I'm in driving mode, I can't be thinking about pedestrians. You can't put all that responsibility on me.

 

[SinisterGehe]

Since when parents were no longer responsible over the actions of their children? Was there some new proposition passed somewhere and I happened to miss it? Gosh, I am 2 months away of being adult according to Finnish law and I can't even use my bank account on-line, or see a doctor, get my mandatory pain medication... >Tho I could if my parents wouldn't care for the info they receive from officials.

But yeah, this must be Microsoft's fault, they clearly were not aware that the parents money situation was what it was and her son had no concept of money's value.

I love how they assume all the money Microsoft generates would go directly to Mr. Gates...

 

[Deverfro]

I get that the kids 11 and you can't really blame him for having no concept of money. But if she was willing to put her details in, then maybe she should have told him to ask her before he made a purchase...

And how can she blame Microsoft, its hardly their fault her son is a feeb.

 

[Jules57]

WHO"S AT FAULT.... I'm going to go with no one, both sides have perfectly ligit explanations. Usually I would blame the company but hey I mean ya they should throw spot checks on credit cards but other than that not much they can do. While its unreasonable to think the mother could know about the way the xbox works. I think this was a lesson learned, Microsoft should refund the money and cancel of what have you the add ons. From the sound of it I don't think the kid will want them now due to the guilt.

 

[Johnmcl7]

This is why they also sell the cards with codes in stores, in New Zealand anyway, but I doubt it's just here. A parent can go into a store here, pay $70 and that's a whole years subscription once the code is punched in.

They do have them here and that's how I purchase my content on Live as I prefer it that way as Microsoft don't get my credit card details. It doesn't take much searching to find this out when considering entering CC details.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy this at all. Not only that, but you can lock it so the kids can't access certain things, perhaps when a parent buys a gaming machine for several hundred dollars, they should look through the manual and keep an eye on this investment.

Unfortunately we live in a no-blame culture it seems these days so it's not reasonable to expect a parent to read the manual or actually do anything to check out what they're doing and not their fault they've done it all wrong and not set up the account correctly. If she wasn't sure what she was doing I'm sure there's someone she could have checked with or looked it up online, I have a friend with two kids and whenever she's unsure of something with their console she just asks rather than hand over her credit card details without thinking.

I dislike the way Microsoft hold CC details and make it awkward to cancel but I think the blame lies solely with the mother and son here as there's plenty other systems she could have put her details into and had the son made loads of orders on. Like many others I think it's a joke she's apparently very tight on money and didn't notice large amounts of money coming constantly out of her account, money isn't that tight for me at the moment but I still go through my statements line for line to make sure it's all correct.

 

[hyperdrachen]

Yeah when I put my credit card in on a service, I like to assume nothing can go wrong. I have no time for research, especially when my 11-year old is at the helm.

 

[fanklok]

IIRC when you put CC info into microsoft stuff they don't ask if you want it permanently linked to the account it just assumes you do. So all parties involved are at fault MS for their tricky money trap, her for being a massive dumbass, and the kid for being a crafty little bastard (and rolling an epic bluff check).

 

[Dragonpit]

*sigh* It's fine if she wanted her son to play with friends, but she's the one who didn't set guidelines or keep track of the use of her card. I mean, really. And what could the kid have bought that would need $1700? Even with all the game I have, I don't find myself spending even half that in six months.

 

[ecoho]

Well,I have mixed opinions on this subject. On one hand Microsoft has no idea of whether a kid is playing a system or the card owner (game consoles are not just for kids), on the other hand I've been thinking about this and while I've spent quite a bit on XBL over a long period of time, I'm not entirely sure what you could do to run up a bill like that so quickly. I mean what did he wind up buying?

I'll also say that I think the credit card company bears some responsibility. I say this because credit cards advertise security protections, and I've gotten several calls using my card legitimatly to make purchuses, especially in the past when I ran up a lot of my personal debt (while working, I didn't plan to become disabled)) and spent a lot of money at one time. Truthfully if she wasn't purchusing XBL stuff except for that six month period, I think that by rights the card company should have at least made a couple of calls to ask about these charges. Heck, I got a call for when DCUO verified my card by putting a $1.00 charge through to test it.

You could say that this is a responsibility dodge, but let's be honest, these cards promise customer protection, by their own standards they should have verified this change in purchusing trends at some point. One of the reasons why this exists is in case of someone like a kid using your card without your knowlege, like if your 40 years old and your teenage daughter "borrows" it to make a purchuse at Hot Topic.

Otherwise, it is pretty much her fault for not paying attention. What's more one of the big reasons why they have pre-paid cards for things like points and gold memberships is specifically so parents don't have to put their credit card information into a kid's console. This isn't even an obscure piece of information, and while entering the credit card info she should have noticed the bit about pre-paid cards (to enter the code) if nothing else. Of course it's possible that "mom" is rather dumb herself, or is running a scam. I mean one of the reasons why companies like Microsoft don't give refunds in cases like this is because of people doing things like running up huge bills, and then claiming "my kids did it" and effectively getting all that stuff for free if they provide the refund. Sure, people suffer in legitimate circumstances, but that's the problem, you can never tell in cases like this. I mean a crook in cases like this is always going to insist that they are a victim, and her going to the press (which is why we hear about this) to put pressure on Microsoft seems a little 'iffy' to me.

thank god someone else who thought this through as much as me i totaly agree with you but in truth MS is the least responsible but they realy should have called or email the owner of the card when the bill hit 500. Heres how this should end 1. kid gets thrown in a closet till hes 18 when he will work off the debt 2. the mother should say shes sorry then cut up her dam card. 3. the card company should reimburse them their money. and finaly 4. MS should give them 1 year of free xbox live. there now everyones punished and aware of their stupidity and will never see this happen again

 

[frankie33]

i say make the kid pay for the bill to teach him a lesson on not
to spend anything console or internet related shopping without
asking the bill payers permission in the near future and by canceling
the xbox live account so he can't ever do it again and i strongly advised
parents whose kids buy anything without parents knowlledge should
say to the kids that the allowences that they get at weekends it will
go towards the bill each week until the kids sanction has being paid in full
only one way for kids to learn not to do it ever again .

frankie smales

(frankie smales tv and movie review uk)

 

[RUINER ACTUAL]

If you can't pay for the kids don't fucking have any. Especially don't give them a 360, LIVE, and a debit card. You had to buy the Xbox, obviously. Why didn't you look at parental controls? Why don't people just come out and say, "I fucked up as a parent. My bad. I take responsibility for this." Grow up and take some responsibility for your action or inaction.

 

[godofallu]

I could argue this either way.

Yes the kid should understand money by 11, yes he should know not to steel from his moms credit card, yes he shouldn't have cried like a baby.

Yes the mom clearly doesn't monitor her kids online activities, and she somehow misses her monthly creditcard bills too. Not to mention the emails you get after every purchase. She clearly babys her kid too much, and is too soft.

Yes Microsoft intentionally changes money into points in order to confuse and trick consumers into overspending. Yes the fact that 1 misclick is enough to buy something is bogus. Yes the fact that the system doesn't let you buy the product directly and instead forces you to buy points in chunks is a tool to get people to overspend.

 

[VondeVon]

I wonder if she bought the machine for her kid and then let him set it all up? For some less techy people, they really need to be told - or have it written on the outside of the box in big letters "Parental lock possible! See inside for details!"

And even then, it might not be enough. I'm not saying Microsoft should do more - the fault is the mother's (and the child's) but I do have some sympathy for a woman who may have just not known about the parental controls at all - who may have honestly thought her credit card was a one-time thing for a one-time purchase, like a lot of online stores.

I do wonder how she missed the "MICROSOFT" transactions on her account for so long, though...

 

[Char-Nobyl]

Uh-huh...so hang on a sec. $1739 over the course of six months, eh? Let's crunch those numbers a bit.

Divide it by six, so we get around $289 a month. Divide that by 30 for the rough numbers of days in any given month, and $9.6, which we'll just round to $10 for simplicity's sake.

Someone enlighten me: how did an eleven-year-old find $10 of new, applicable content every day for six months? I can't think of anything except buying piles and piles of avatar crap, and I like to have more faith in mankind than that.

What's more, how did this woman fail to notice her bank statement saying that close to $300 was being paid to Microsoft every month?

 

[Char-Nobyl]

thank god someone else who thought this through as much as me i totaly agree with you but in truth MS is the least responsible but they realy should have called or email the owner of the card when the bill hit 500.

Why? As far as they know, the owner of the console is an adult with access to a debit card. If you run a company and offer a service that relies on microtransactions to make a profit, would you take the time and manpower to call up every customer and ask, "Are you sure you want to keep giving us money?"

Heres how this should end 1. kid gets thrown in a closet till hes 18 when he will work off the debt 2. the mother should say shes sorry then cut up her dam card. 3. the card company should reimburse them their money.

Why is this the bank's fault? Lots of people here seem to think that credit cards are the same thing as debit cards. In short: they're not. Credit cards are things you charge things on and pay for the lot of it at the end of the month. Debit cards are direct links to your bank account. There is no "company" other than the bank, and all they're doing is giving you access to the money you entrusted them with.

Back to the point: why should the bank have to pay for this? They already did, in essence: they were holding the money, and now they're not.

and finaly 4. MS should give them 1 year of free xbox live.

And what sort of message does that give?

there now everyones punished and aware of their stupidity and will never see this happen again

Right...except the parties that needed to be punished already got punished. No one needs to go any further. The kid learned his lesson, and the mother learned not to give a child free control of a debit card.

 

[ecoho]

Snip.

ok first off if it is a debit card why didnt the bank call her at the $500 mark? mine does and they with hold all funds till its cleared with the card owner. Next to back track to MS if you are dealing with hundreds of dollars in micro transactions you need to have a system in place to prevent this sort of thing. The whole 1 year free thing would be a way for MS to save face but not lose any real money; thus it would be a way to keep their head when uniformed media get ahold of this and go on a witch hunt. BTW if the bank allows my card to be charged without my consent (and they can a do call you if an auto charge is done. Well if they are doing their jobs) i sure as hell expect them to refound my dam money. Now the mother was an idiot but in this case all partys are at fault.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

ok first off if it is a debit card why didnt the bank call her at the $500 mark? mine does and they with hold all funds till its cleared with the card owner.

Because it was a large number of microtransactions, and from a source that she had authorized payment for at least once already. If the kid spent $500 in a single transaction, the bank would have paused the transaction for verification, but that's not what happened. An average of $10 a day from a reputable company like Microsoft isn't going to set off alarm bells for most banks.

Next to back track to MS if you are dealing with hundreds of dollars in micro transactions you need to have a system in place to prevent this sort of thing.

Why? There are already safeguards in place, things like email notifications, needing a card in the first place, bank statements, etc. There are any number of barriers in place that the mother either ignored or couldn't be arsed to authorize in the first place. And if it's the latter, she reaped what she sowed.

The whole 1 year free thing would be a way for MS to save face but not lose any real money; thus it would be a way to keep their head when uniformed media get ahold of this and go on a witch hunt.

Uh-huh. Couple things wrong with that:

1) Giving undue compensation is as good as admitting fault, which Microsoft doesn't have.

2) As you might've guessed from this article, no one is going after Microsoft except the mother. There isn't going to be a 'witch hunt' because "Single parent spends money irresponsibly" is about as attention-grabbing a headline as "Black male killed in Detroit."

BTW if the bank allows my card to be charged without my consent (and they can a do call you if an auto charge is done. Well if they are doing their jobs) i sure as hell expect them to refound my dam money.

Oh, it was without her consent? Could have fooled me. I guess her card information was magically entered into the Xbox to authorize the early payments. And I suppose they were "auto charge(s)," if you consider the card being billed automatically when her child bought things with it an "auto charge."

If you give your child a debit card and set him loose in a toy store, don't start whining about how you didn't "authorize" the purchases he made while you weren't looking, especially if none of those purchases can be returned (as is the case with DLC).