Kids Can't Handle Old-School RPGs Anymore

[A-D.]

Holy Necro. I wonder lately, do People on purpose kinda go through the whole Section of forums and dig up the really old Threads to comment in? Especially News which is really out of date by now?

Im all for using the search function instead of opening new threads when something like that exists but..this topic, or "news" is about one and a half years old.

Im just really curious as to why this happens at this point.

 

[IWCAS]

I love rpgs, especially jrpgs. I'd give it a try if I had the chance but some games are just too old for me to stand. I like most of the older FF games I've tried but after awhile I get bored. I'd rather play a more modern rpg.

 

[tmande2nd]

This kind of happened to me last year when I tried to play Baulder's Gate.

I kept saying: What the fuck am I looking at?
I had to grab my old D&D 2nd edition book and spend hours refreshing myself.

If you can pick up and play a game I dont really like it.
I should not have to spend HOURS reading rules just to play a video game.

If I want to do that I will go play a D20 game.

 

[Strazdas]

I often play old games. Had a similar feeling of "What the hell?" when i played fallout for the first time, but in the end i finished it by reading up a bit on it.
The thing is, majority of gamers are not interested in that any more, they just want to launch the game and enjoy it, they dont want to read long storylines. Infact i do prefer games that have voice files for their stories instead of reading them (like morrowind) but i still do read all of it because i jut like the stories. but in a age where books are "waste of time" for majority reading a manual for a game is really not going to work.
for the record, im 22, i got no idea where im "todays generation" or the "old gamers".

there seems to be a thing with old news articles sometimes popping up on the escapist and people just comment not realising the age of the thread.

whooops, guilty as charged. I found this article on "recommended for you" list and didnt notice the date. hope i didnt necro too much.

 

[Aitamen]

Honestly, my thoughts on this are based on the design concepts of the original Ultima, so there's a bit of serendipity there.

There should not be a tutorial in any game for the same reason that you got to shoot things in outer space in the first Ultima: If there's room on the damn disk, you should put more game there. This is proper design, and anything else is unacceptable. I've always felt this way, hearing that the Ultima games I grew up loving started that way codified it a fair bit.

Part of me refuses to believe that out of an entire college class of people going to a class named "History of Gaming" not *one* person actually had any knowledge of older gaming. It blows my mind... though it really does give me a bit of pride to say that I'm not like them, and I still have my hand-drawn grid-paper maps of Ultima 3 and Wizardry to prove it.

And I'm only 22, woo!

 

[Elate]

See, this annoys me quite a bit, when older gamers say I "Just don't get old games", No, I get them. I can play them, I just don't want to, because they're boring, primitive and basic. I COULD play a game entirely in Dos, but it's boring and I would rather read a book.

The funny thing is, I just recently got Legends of Grimrock, a new dungeon crawler game, that is based around the old type of dungeon RPGs, wanna know something? It's fantastic, the atmosphere is immersive, the gameplay is entertaining, the combat is heart pounding and the puzzles really make you think some of them are hard as hell (And I love puzzle games).

The REASON we don't like or as you put it "can't handle" is because the gameplay choices and mechanics are poor, and half the time it feels like you're just battling the game rather than playing it, frankly, that isn't fun. They remind me of "I wanna be the guy" in terms of how they play, you die for completely contrived reasons, or the solution to a puzzle will make no sense at all, and the game just expects you to know.

 

[LadyWolf101103]

I love this article. As an apparently ready-for-a-nursing-home-in-my-30s Technical Writer, I've lived through this sort of shifting mindset in business as well as gaming.

We now avoid printed manuals or training guides simply because the moment you print it, it's out of date. If you upload it to a server and find an error, simply overwrite the original or send it along with the next inevitable patch. Not many will be the wiser (who reads the darn things anyway?). The tools we use are much more sophisticated too. Instead of requiring a Flash Programmer to create a training module, any rube (me included) can create an .swf file with Captivate, Camtasia or Articulate.

Back in my day (as I rattle my cane at you) programmers weren't as easy to come by as they are now, there were limited programming tools and languages, hardware and software space was limited and expensive, and updating a manual was faster and cheaper than changing code before a release date.

Hopefully, those of you who commented about not understanding why anyone would EVER need a manual, actually read this for a glimpse at what it was like in the dark ages... 20 years ago.
*Lady Wolf creaks off into the sunset with her walker; AP, MS and Chicago manuals of style loaded on her back*

 

[GloatingSwine]

I think there's an assumption in modern videogame design that if you're buying a videogame it's because you wanted to spend time playing a videogame, not reading about how to play a videogame.

This is why modern games tend to have things like tutorials which do the job that manuals used to do, but as a part of the actual game. What a novel concept!

 

[DracoSuave]

So, what was the conclusion? What was the point? That games back in the day weren't as accessible to players? That people were more intelligent? More patient? That games were more limited and thus required documentation rather than in-game tutorials?

Or that Ultima IV doesn't live up to todays standards?

Actually Ultima IV (the computer version) is poorly done in that regard even by old standards.

The 'necessity of a manual' isn't refering to the fact the manual is where the tutorial is; the fact is Ultima IV's documentation is TERRIBLE and necessary.

It's terrible because it doesn't tell you how to play, and it's necessary because you cannot cast magic without constantly looking into the manual to see which spell does which.

In order to see a contrast to show how indefensible U4 is, look at the Nintendo version of U4. Despite the smaller cartridge space, it didn't take short cuts like relegating the spell system to the manual: By 'dumbing it down' and having spells (and actions) as menus in game, it made the game acceissible and actually playable in comparison.

The thing to remember is that otherwise, the games are identical in terms of quests, where objects are, what spells do, combat math, etc. The ONLY difference is the 'dumbing down' of the interface actually makes the game better.

Reading the manual still helped, but you didn't need to be constantly thumbing through it just to figure out how to talk to a guard.

 

[Atmos Duality]

This is in part why I prefer the 90s and early 200x's RPGs. It isn't so convoluted that it's impossible to discern just what the hell you're supposed to do, but it isn't so hand-holding and repetitive that it's insulting.

EDIT:

Hopefully, those of you who commented about not understanding why anyone would EVER need a manual, actually read this for a glimpse at what it was like in the dark ages... 20 years ago.
*Lady Wolf creaks off into the sunset with her walker; AP, MS and Chicago manuals of style loaded on her back*

Oh stuff Chicago format! I hated having to do that in tech writing for high school and college.
Though ironically, that was the only technical class I had to use it in; my geology/earth science electives were the classes that used it the most.

 

[Aitamen]

^Given the option, Yeah... CT, PS2-4, and Wizardry 6-8 top my list of preferred RPGs, and Tactics and Disgaea if you wanna throw TRPG/SRPG into the mix... But I'd take the early Ultima games over, say, FFXIII anyday.

@Mariena: The point is that gaming was designed for geeks at the time, and the medium changed as it's popularity rose. it became more user friendly, and progressively less complex, and most people I've met agree that 86~99 were the best years for RPG production, and that before and after those epochs released titles that were amazing in quality and usability were harder to find.

For the record, there's no benefit to *me* for there being a tutorial in a game: it's a waste of space, and I'll probably know how to play the game before I buy it, because... why would I buy something I'm completely ignorant of? Manuals suit my needs much better, especially in games complex enough to need a reference card or the like.

I know there are people who go to a store and look at the boxes and go "This one looks cool, let's get it!" and my brain doesn't know quite what to think of that.

 

[TJM8]

This is cause games don't work the same way. I don't know if you told them "hey guys you need to read the information for the game to make sense" but thats what you should've done. Games now dont just show you what to do, but they also teach you how to play as you play it, they give skills gradually and ease you into the game. In both situations there is immersion. Being eased into the game makes you feel as though you are learning as your character is learning, but being thrown in having to figure out complex abilities right away is also immersive because you feel like you are more in control and things are free reign. I guess a good example of this that most people can relate to is minecraft. Everything is there. Trees stone dirt iron coal. And if you figured it out yourself without someone telling you you really feel like you conquered the game. and the next time you play you just wizz past that . you grab what u need and head underground. you learned. theres no "official manuel" for minecraft.
Yes most games nowadays hand hold the gamer, way too much in my opinion, and the kids in your class are used to that now. its expected. tutorials are almost in every game, or at least as an option. Maybe your students just arent patient enough for the games, I have noticed alot of gamers can't handle bad graphics. my go to example is how my brother (who is older than me) can't hand playing older games within his favorite series (fallout) because the graphics are just too bad. his brain just cant process it and fill in the gaps, its too much work and leaves him feeling disconnected.
I just wouldnt give up on the hope that gamers can appreciate these games or make generalizations bout the young players. we can kick it with the old games man, groovy