Kill Your Darlings

[Ryan Hughes]

Well, to be fair, people act like George RR Martin invented many things. . .

Do not get me wrong, I do like the novels, as a whole, but they are largely inspired by Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Water Margin, two great classics of Chinese literature. In short, he is not as surprising and original as some people make him out to be.

 

[Ukomba]

Also, having read 4 of his books, I didn't really think that he could "shock" me anymore, boy was I wrong--those who have read the book know what I am talking about.

Spoiler: Click at your own peril!

Jon Snow bites the dust

I'd argue it's a bit vague, and, considering certain other things going on, I don't think we can say that's certainly the case until the next book.

That's true, but it's set up to the point that it seems only magic can prevent it...

Spoiler: More spoilers

But there are after death options, undead and wolf possession. He can die and still be in the story ,like a certain female character.

Spoiler

If there's one terrible habit Martin got into since... well, basically since the end of the first book, it's setting up scenarios where it appears certain that a character is dead, and then revealing they're still alive. In contrary to the suspense supposedly created by his willingness to kill off any of the characters, it actually appears more like he's just teasing people with the threat of death and gets on my nerves. Unless a character is killed off explicitly in full view "on screen", so to speak, I'm going to be sitting and waiting for Martin to try and do yet another of his umpteen "gotcha" revelations where he reveals, to absolutely no surprise anymore, that the character he implied was dead was not actually dead.

What I'm saying is that there is so much precedence of Martin doing exactly this kind of thing and the characters surviving that it seems highly unlikely that he'll have killed off Snow.

Spoiler: This is starting to look like a top Secret document with all the spoiler blackouts. Seriously though, HUGE Spoilers.

Those 'oops, not really dead' reveals never got me because they never set up well enough that those characters were in danger. The deaths at that time would also have been a pointless waist of characters and the end of the story line would have been just too abrupt. Snow is different. He's taken a serious wound, he's unlikely to get assistance in time, even if he does get assistance there's no healing magic, and there's no looming story line only he can continue. Bran, on the other hand, wont die until Martin finishes enough of the Weirwood plot line that his death won't feel like a dangling plot thread.

 

[Nuxxy]

If GRRM really want to shock me, have a 'good' character kill Littlefinger without him seeing it coming.

 

[Saviordd1]

I have never seen anyone kill off main characters with the casual indifference of George R. R. Martin. Although not my favorite author, I enjoy his visceral writing style. It's not surprising when one considers the fact that the Martin, a medieval historian, takes great inspiration from the English War of the Roses. Life was cheap in the middle ages--and still is--and lords and legends were killed off just as quickly as they emerged.

Also, having read 4 of his books, I didn't really think that he could "shock" me anymore, boy was I wrong--those who have read the book know what I am talking about.

Spoiler: Click at your own peril!

Jon Snow bites the dust

This is not a confirmed death. Just sayin.

OT: I don't know, the big part is a lot of shows just kill people because they like to kill people. There does come a time when audience apathy kicks in. (The red wedding is getting close for a lot of people. If Tyrion and Danerys die I don't think anyone would watch the show anymore)

 

[Azahul]

Also, having read 4 of his books, I didn't really think that he could "shock" me anymore, boy was I wrong--those who have read the book know what I am talking about.

Spoiler: Click at your own peril!

Jon Snow bites the dust

I'd argue it's a bit vague, and, considering certain other things going on, I don't think we can say that's certainly the case until the next book.

That's true, but it's set up to the point that it seems only magic can prevent it...

Spoiler: More spoilers

But there are after death options, undead and wolf possession. He can die and still be in the story ,like a certain female character.

Spoiler

If there's one terrible habit Martin got into since... well, basically since the end of the first book, it's setting up scenarios where it appears certain that a character is dead, and then revealing they're still alive. In contrary to the suspense supposedly created by his willingness to kill off any of the characters, it actually appears more like he's just teasing people with the threat of death and gets on my nerves. Unless a character is killed off explicitly in full view "on screen", so to speak, I'm going to be sitting and waiting for Martin to try and do yet another of his umpteen "gotcha" revelations where he reveals, to absolutely no surprise anymore, that the character he implied was dead was not actually dead.

What I'm saying is that there is so much precedence of Martin doing exactly this kind of thing and the characters surviving that it seems highly unlikely that he'll have killed off Snow.

Spoiler: This is starting to look like a top Secret document with all the spoiler blackouts. Seriously though, HUGE Spoilers.

Those 'oops, not really dead' reveals never got me because they never set up well enough that those characters were in danger. The deaths at that time would also have been a pointless waist of characters and the end of the story line would have been just too abrupt. Snow is different. He's taken a serious wound, he's unlikely to get assistance in time, even if he does get assistance there's no healing magic, and there's no looming story line only he can continue. Bran, on the other hand, wont die until Martin finishes enough of the Weirwood plot line that his death won't feel like a dangling plot thread.

Spoiler: Classified: For Class 10 Security Clearance Only

The "oops, not really dead" reveals never got me either. Which is why it is now incredibly hard for me to take the threat to John Snow seriously. Besides, I disagree about the absence of a looming story line that only he can continue. There's a solid amount of evidence to support the theory that he is the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, and thus he could even be a potential rider for one of Daenerys's dragons.

Regardless, I'll treat rumours of Jon Snow's death with great skepticism. If Martin didn't want me to do this, he shouldn't have had so many damned fake deaths before. Since the series has had repeated instances of fake skulls/corpses being presented as proof of death, when the characters are still living, it's going to be exceptionally hard to convince me that the man is dead without a chapter in which Jon dies from his own perspective (possibly remembering it after becoming part of Ghost?). All the fake deaths do serious harm to any emotional weight he wants to deliver by killing off a character, which is why I find his habit of doing them so distasteful.

 

[Amaror]

Also, having read 4 of his books, I didn't really think that he could "shock" me anymore, boy was I wrong--those who have read the book know what I am talking about.

Spoiler: Click at your own peril!

Jon Snow bites the dust

I'd argue it's a bit vague, and, considering certain other things going on, I don't think we can say that's certainly the case until the next book.

That's true, but it's set up to the point that it seems only magic can prevent it...

Spoiler: More spoilers

But there are after death options, undead and wolf possession. He can die and still be in the story ,like a certain female character.

I didn't really get that impression

Spoiler: Even more spoiler

He's stabbed multiple times. It's not easy to survive but certainly managable. Considering one character came back after getting their throad slit.
Besides he sees his wound "boiling" and we know Melisandre is near and we know that red priests do know magic, so...
[/spoilers]

 

[Falseprophet]

I have never seen anyone kill off main characters with the casual indifference of George R. R. Martin.

I don't really consider the man who had to write the Red Wedding chapter last because he was too emotionally distraught, then cried over the characters he'd just killed, "casually indifferent".

 

[Mausthemighty]

I have never seen anyone kill off main characters with the casual indifference of George R. R. Martin. Although not my favorite author, I enjoy his visceral writing style. It's not surprising when one considers the fact that the Martin, a medieval historian, takes great inspiration from the English War of the Roses. Life was cheap in the middle ages--and still is--and lords and legends were killed off just as quickly as they emerged.

Also, having read 4 of his books, I didn't really think that he could "shock" me anymore, boy was I wrong--those who have read the book know what I am talking about.

Spoiler: Click at your own peril!

Jon Snow bites the dust

Spoiler: Click at YOUR own peril!

No, he doesn't. At least not for more than 5 minutes.

Spoiler: Click leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering!

I don't think he died. Yes he got a few backstabs and get's a fade out(suggesting death) but that doesn't mean he really died. You can't live without a head, but getting stabbed doesn't mean insta-death

But you'll never know with Georgie!

 

[Headsprouter]

Yeah, this annoyed me at one point in Deadman Wonderland, they go and introduce some really awesome, threatening villains, about to pulverise the protagonist and friends, so they close in, all threatening and formidable...

...only to be killed instantly. So much for the big introduction.

 

[Irridium]

So you stop watching because of good writing?

That's what seems to be the case from what I've seen of the reaction to Game of Throne's red wedding or whatever it was.

 

[Ishal]

He didn't invent death, he just uses it way more than other popular writers seem to. It's in the name of trope subversion. No main character with a +10 morality shield is going to survive in ASOIF if they screw up and do something stupid.

 

[Random berk]

I have never seen anyone kill off main characters with the casual indifference of George R. R. Martin. Although not my favorite author, I enjoy his visceral writing style. It's not surprising when one considers the fact that the Martin, a medieval historian, takes great inspiration from the English War of the Roses. Life was cheap in the middle ages--and still is--and lords and legends were killed off just as quickly as they emerged.

Also, having read 4 of his books, I didn't really think that he could "shock" me anymore, boy was I wrong--those who have read the book know what I am talking about.

Spoiler: Click at your own peril!

Jon Snow bites the dust

Crap! I had just one more book to go and thought I was ahead of you!

 

[LaoJim]

I have never seen anyone kill off main characters with the casual indifference of George R. R. Martin. Although not my favorite author, I enjoy his visceral writing style. It's not surprising when one considers the fact that the Martin, a medieval historian, takes great inspiration from the English War of the Roses. Life was cheap in the middle ages--and still is--and lords and legends were killed off just as quickly as they emerged.

Also, having read 4 of his books, I didn't really think that he could "shock" me anymore, boy was I wrong--those who have read the book know what I am talking about.

Spoiler: Click at your own peril!

Jon Snow bites the dust

Yes but

Spoiler: spoilers

Death's not what it once was.

 

[taciturnCandid]

This is pretty much what happens every few months in homestuck. That comic could be summed up as Everyone Dies: the comic.

Also I did actually quit a few books because a character I liked died. Song of Fire and Ice I just lost interest in.

 

[Ulquiorra4sama]

If anything the Red Wedding made me even more determined to follow the show just to see how the heck this is all going to resolve itself. Although that might be a bit too over-optimistic of me.

Funny how the Red Wedding and the end of Season 3 was what made me want to start reading the books. Haven't caught up with the show yet, but honestly that twist made me not want to wait to see what happens next.

 

[Pyrian]

I have never seen anyone kill off main characters with the casual indifference of George R. R. Martin.

Haven't read much Black Company by Glen Cook, I imagine? Soldier's Live must've been titled ironically.

 

[lucky_sharm]

I hate when people say that half of the cast was killed off when only two major characters were killed.

Spoiler

And to say nothing of the fact that Catelyn was brought back from the dead...

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

-snip-

Spoiler: Click at your own peril, too

Actually, the last we see is Jon Snow being stabbed by his fellow Nights Watch members for the sake of the Nights Watch. There is no definitive proof he is dead yet until GRRM writes the next one. it may sound like wishful thinking, but with the way GRRM is in his writing, don't write the possibility out until more definitive stuff comes to be.

Spoiler

I'd actually say, looking at the way GRRM tends to write, that's it's far more likely Jon is still alive by some description. When an important character dies, GRRM tends not to fuck about. BAM! There, you just saw him/her get brutally murdered right in front of you. When he cuts away at a crucial moment, it's usually because something else happens that he doesn't want shown until later, like with Brienne. Her death was looking fairly certain in A Feast for Crows, but then she shows up again in A Dance With Dragons.

 

[Kargathia]

Also, having read 4 of his books, I didn't really think that he could "shock" me anymore, boy was I wrong--those who have read the book know what I am talking about.

Spoiler: Click at your own peril!

Jon Snow bites the dust

I'd argue it's a bit vague, and, considering certain other things going on, I don't think we can say that's certainly the case until the next book.

That's true, but it's set up to the point that it seems only magic can prevent it...

Spoiler: More spoilers

But there are after death options, undead and wolf possession. He can die and still be in the story ,like a certain female character.

Spoiler

If there's one terrible habit Martin got into since... well, basically since the end of the first book, it's setting up scenarios where it appears certain that a character is dead, and then revealing they're still alive. In contrary to the suspense supposedly created by his willingness to kill off any of the characters, it actually appears more like he's just teasing people with the threat of death and gets on my nerves. Unless a character is killed off explicitly in full view "on screen", so to speak, I'm going to be sitting and waiting for Martin to try and do yet another of his umpteen "gotcha" revelations where he reveals, to absolutely no surprise anymore, that the character he implied was dead was not actually dead.

What I'm saying is that there is so much precedence of Martin doing exactly this kind of thing and the characters surviving that it seems highly unlikely that he'll have killed off Snow.

Spoiler: This is starting to look like a top Secret document with all the spoiler blackouts. Seriously though, HUGE Spoilers.

Those 'oops, not really dead' reveals never got me because they never set up well enough that those characters were in danger. The deaths at that time would also have been a pointless waist of characters and the end of the story line would have been just too abrupt. Snow is different. He's taken a serious wound, he's unlikely to get assistance in time, even if he does get assistance there's no healing magic, and there's no looming story line only he can continue. Bran, on the other hand, wont die until Martin finishes enough of the Weirwood plot line that his death won't feel like a dangling plot thread.

Spoiler: Yes, this really is top secret. I mean: who knows who could be reading this?

So far all of the main characters in GoT dying did so whenever their death was best placed to act as a catalyst for a whole new magnitude of clusterfuck.

Jon's death creates a character and power vacuum at the wall, just when he was pretty much the only one preventing an all-out clash between the wildlings, the watch, and Stannis' retinue - white walkers thrown in for additional southbound shit flavour.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised by a miraculous revive, but one thing is certain: a shitstorm is brewing up there, and it's gonna be big.

 

[PunkRex]

Given that last week was about FREE! I thought she was talking about Attack on Titan for a second there...

I swear if Sasha gets it i'm gonna kick off!

Still, I don't get as mad as I used to when characters die... is that maturity kicking in or is life just slowly beating down?...

I gotta go cry for abit, excuse me...