I guess all it takes to get support from some places is to have a designer from an easy-target franchise to make a comment. Whiplash, hoooo.
Kojima On MGS 5's Quiet: I Meant Sexy, Not Erotic
- Thread starter Karloff
- Start date
WHAT WHAT.........Bayonetta an example of sexuality used well.......and MGS5 hasn't even been released yet what can you judge other than the look. I'm probably wrong but I was getting the vibe that she was the one being electrocuted and tortured in the trailer and maybe they took her clothes. Maybe she escapes that way.
Oh yes, I just remembered. In Bayonetta I used a unique kill move on some big boobed angel thing that tied her up and slammed her down vagina first on a spiked horse where she writhed a bit then died.
Oh yes, I just remembered. In Bayonetta I used a unique kill move on some big boobed angel thing that tied her up and slammed her down vagina first on a spiked horse where she writhed a bit then died.
"Women can't be sexual, look sexual, or dress provoctively unless in proper conext with their husband or significant other"
There's been an invasion of anti-sex neo-victorianism in the gaming commuinity and it's really sad because it further demonstrates how insane the reasoning behind the complaints is... If they're complaining about a game character in the racey getup over the extreme violence then they don't have a proper perspective on fiction.
If people are adult enough to play a violent game, then they're adult enough to deal with a woman who shows skin in it. It's like it's becoming a crime that men might find a fictional character to be sexually appealing.
There's been an invasion of anti-sex neo-victorianism in the gaming commuinity and it's really sad because it further demonstrates how insane the reasoning behind the complaints is... If they're complaining about a game character in the racey getup over the extreme violence then they don't have a proper perspective on fiction.
If people are adult enough to play a violent game, then they're adult enough to deal with a woman who shows skin in it. It's like it's becoming a crime that men might find a fictional character to be sexually appealing.
Um, no. There's been an invasion of people realizing that women shouldn't be treated as sex objects by lonely man children. I have yet to meet a single person, anywhere on the escapist, who has a problem with sex in games. Mass Effect had sex and nudity in spades, and no one batted an eye, because the characters were treated with respect, and they acted like real people. This is different from the newest Metal Gear game, where the creator specifically made characters fanservice in order to attract buyers. He then asked women to dress up as his absurd bikini clad sniper, which is creepy. This "invasion" is very different from "neo-victorianism" or some archaic idea that women need to dressed in a burka and escorted through town by their brothers. This is simply the idea that people in general should be treated with respect. You can claim this is normal for the creator in question, but that doesn't really say much about his character or maturity.Nurb said:
Copy and paste...Fox12 said:
If they're complaining about a game character in the racey getup over the extreme violence then they don't have a proper perspective on fiction.
If people are adult enough to play a violent game, then they're adult enough to deal with a woman who shows skin in it. It's like it's becoming a crime that men might find a fictional character to be sexually appealing.
ITS A VIDEO GAME NOT BASED ON REALITY. Stop the "Oh won't someone think of the pixels" nonsense.
And if a video game MAKES people treat women as objects, then a video game MAKES people murder each other.
Okay, lets say you're right about fictional women not being objectified. I personally disagree, but for the sake of argument we will say you are completely correct. It's still sexist because he specifically created this characters outfit in the hopes that real life women would dress up as her. He then went online and asked all his female fans to dress this way, going as far as to upload picture with the tagline "something like this for instance." This crosses the line into the real world, so even if your statement about fiction were true it would still be sexist. It's objectification, and you can't even claim he doesn't view women this way in real life because he clearly does.Nurb said:
I should clarify. I don't think it's immature to appreciate or accept sex, quite the opposite. It's a normal part of life. However, there's a difference between a character accepting his/her sexuality and a character being sexually exploited for the purpose of appealing to male fans in order to sale more copies of a game. This is made worse by him wanting women to actually dress this way in real life. Being comfortable with sexuality is a sign of maturity, while sexual exploitation is a juveniles understanding of sex. I have no problem with sex in games, but I don't think it should be demeaning. In the same way that making fart noises with your armpit would be considered a juvenile form of humor, I would consider dressing women up a strippers for no discernible reason to be a juvenile way to portray sexuality.wulf3n said:
But what exactly makes this juvenile?Fox12 said:
Why is that worse? I would prefer everyone walk around naked is that even worse?Fox12 said:
Are you honestly trying to say appreciation of sexual exploitation indicates that is their sole understanding of sexuality?Fox12 said:
Who is this demeaning?Fox12 said:
Would it?Fox12 said:
This is kind of repeating my initial point, but what exactly makes something juvenile?
But it's not trying to portray sexuality, it's simply their to appeal to sexual gratification.Fox12 said:
None of those show him asking people to cosplay as ghost. He's trying to make people want to cosplay as ghost, but that's different.Fox12 said:
But... this very article shows that most of those were poorly translated and that he changed the design so that she'd wear more clothing so people would be more comfortable dressing as the character. It's not "I want these girls to dress like this." It's "I don't want fans and the people around them to be uncomfortable."Fox12 said:
The last one is just Kojima's being consistent of his love of ass, both male and female.
And apparently the character he said he'd want to see cosplayed the most is...
If a female character is dressed in an outlandishly sexual way so that the male audience members can get their rocks off then I would consider this juvenile. The character is just there to be eye candy, there's no practical purpose for her to dress that way, especially in a military situation, unless her goal is to seduce every terrorist in the middle east or something. If someone designs a character like that, and then asks women to dress that way, then their pervert.
Whut? I don't see the difference.
"None of those show him asking people to cosplay as ghost. He's trying to make people want to cosplay as ghost, but that's different."Fox12 said:
Whut? I don't see the difference.
All he did was trade erotic for sexy, but I think the basic meaning is still there.Cybylt said:But... this very article shows that most of those were poorly translated and that he changed the design so that she'd wear more clothing so people would be more comfortable dressing as the character. It's not "I want these girls to dress like this." It's "I don't want fans and the people around them to be uncomfortable."Fox12 said:
The last one is just Kojima's being consistent of his love of ass, both male and female.
And apparently the character he said he'd want to see cosplayed the most is...
And that skull thing is bad-ass, I don't blame him.
I understand that's how you feel about it, but what I'm trying to understand is why?Fox12 said:
I'd argue there's possibly more to it, given in the trailer she starts off with what appears to be mascara stains around her eyes.Fox12 said:
edit: Technically she starts off getting tortured, but when they reveal her character she has mascara stains that fade away.
edit edit: And the quote from the voice actress "I don't think I'm allowed to say a lot about this, but, well, Mr. Kojima has his reasons for deciding why Quiet [is] wearing what she's wearing" is pretty ominous
But why does that make them a pervert?Fox12 said:
One's simply making a request, the other is putting actual effort to convince people this is a good thing. Honestly I don't see why either is bad, he's not forcing anyone to dress like that, and is simply saying that's what he likes.Fox12 said:
I say juvenile, but perhaps "unsophisticated" would be a more accurate term. He dresses a character in a uniform that is utterly unsuited for the role their supposed to fill, and the only reason is because he thinks it's more attractive that way. That doesn't strike me as a practical reason to make the decision, but more than that it seems... degrading. Degrading because the character is forced to dress in an upsurd outfit in an upsurd situation just so her fans can drool over her. I personally just find it kind of gross.wulf3n said:
I agree with you, however, that I can't judge the game or the character too harshly because, well, it hasn't been released yet. Until then I can't say much more beyond speculation, so personality wise she may be the most fascinating character in history.
As for asking women to dress that way, even as a request, that does seem sort of pervy. A pervert being someone whose sexual desires or actions fall outside social norms, publicly suggesting that women dress up as bikini snipers falls out of social norms. It could all be a misunderstanding, but the way everything was presented, it really makes it sound like he designed a character he found attractive for the sole purpose of seeing women dress that way. It comes across as fetishistic and strange, though again, it may be a misunderstanding.
I've been debating this with like three different people though, so I think I'm just going to leave it here, and say we can agree to disagree. Lets all agree Anita Sarkeesian is awful, or that terrorism is bad or something so we can all get along again, eh?
