Korra: Beginings - What did you guys think?

[Saltyk]

They were great episodes and really helped establish the universe's origins. A lot of stuff managed to make more sense and I couldn't find any contradictions. I could see how this knowledge would be lost as well...

My only question is how did the SECOND avatar know what their purpose would be? Or had a Cult of the Avatar been established or something during Wan's tenure?

It seemed at that point like Raava was still hanging around as a conscious companion as opposed to the general spiritual force she later faded into. So I'd wager that it was a mix of some of Wan's groupies and Raava herself explaining what in God's name was going on. Plus, maybe the second Avatar's connection with Wan's life was stronger, since there were only two lives to remember; it's possible the second one picked up right where Wan left off.

I was thinking that the second Avatar, as a Air Nomad, may have discovered it on his own. Now, bear with me as I give my theory (which is probably wrong).

Our second Avatar would have had odd dreams of another life. Dreams he could not make sense of. He possibly went to the elders of the Air Nomads seeking advice, but not knowing themselves, they suggested he meditate on these dreams. On his sixteenth birthday he managed to communicate with Wan and Reeva discovering his identity and his duty to the world. This would also nicely establish the tradition of informing the Avatar on his sixteenth birthday.

From there, he would, under guidance of Wan and Reeva, seek out a Water Bending master, then an Earth Bending master and Fire Bending Master. Once he had mastered all four elements, he would work, probably with the guidance of his Air Bending masters and Wan, to unlock and master the Avatar State.

I would honestly love to see a story following the second Avatar. I'd imagine he'd have trouble convincing people of his status, and would probably have to establish the reputation of the Avatar in the world. Even more so than Wan would have tried. Perhaps working to establish the Avatar's role as a person outside of the world and a mediator to the people even more than Wan would have.

From what we see, I don't think Wan knew they would start a cycle or reincarnation until after he died. So, I'd suspect that he wouldn't have established any sort of system for that. Thinking like that, the Second Avatar may have had the single most difficult task to accomplish. That of simply establishing the Avatar as a part of the world's cycle and a person to be trusted AND feared.

 

[Abomination]

-snip-

It does seem more likely that Reeva was still semi-sentient and that Wan had a greater connection to the 2nd Avatar when the 2nd Avatar came into being.

Their story would be one of the most interesting because the world would probably consider them crazy... or perhaps since war was supposedly so common it could lead to the air benders having a very powerful weapon on their side. Maybe the second avatar dies before even mastering all 4 elements.

The Avatar series is a damn great series and deserves to have every Avatar investigated in some way. Nickelodeon has a goldmine of an IP here.

Just keep Shama-lama-ding-dong away from it...

 

[WindKnight]

Spoiler: Also

Also wanna bet that Unalaq is in some way connected to Vaatu like he was the one who broke Vaatu out of his imprisionment or maybe he is possess/ bonded by him in a similar way with Raava is bonded to the Avatar?

Also I am expecting the final battle will be the entire past Avatars are with Korra as they all gang up on Vaatu!!!

Spoiler

I'm geussing either Unalaq or Vaarick is a direct agent or else touched by Vaatu, and maybe the reason people have been acting off and stupidy is chaos induced by his coming return

 

[Cecilo]

To those discussing the first benders comment. We aren't really sure how the first benders came to be, the lion turtles seemed to grant people the basic techniques and how to use the bending they were given, but it is entirely possible that their children didn't have the innate ability to use the bending, and because their parents just knew, they had to learn from someone else.

Alternatively, they had to learn how to actually bend from the creatures, as we saw with Wan, his fire bending was crude, basically just "Shoot to kill stuff". But once he learned from the Dragons, he was like the current fire benders, able to redirect fire, disperse it, use it defensively, after the dragon he was a true fire bender, not just "Someone swinging a weapon around wildly." So while the creatures didn't GIVE them the bending skills, they did TEACH them how to use them to their full potential.

 

[Abomination]

I thought it was obvious... the bending was given to people by the turtles who in turn passed it on to their children because they didn't give bending back. Not every child would have bending - simlar to not even all of Aang's children have bending despite their father being the Avatar and their mother being a waterbending master.

Over time people would learn how to bend "better" by training themselves with it. That's why the tribes have 4 distinct martial arts styles.

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

As for your Lion Turtle dilemma, it did not seem like they had authority over Raava at all to me. She was in a weak position, not to mention she was actually weaker physically/spiritually/whatever term is appropriate here and the Lion Turtle made a judgment that she had to follow out of obligation for the safety of the world. At worst, they might be on par with each other in terms of wisdom or authority over matters or authority or wisdom over one another, if you ask me anyway.

I'm probably misinterpreting the lore, only because Avatar might be breaking away from the status quo of typical mythology. It's just... the spirit of light and peace that exists only to endlessly fight the spirit of darkness and chaos sounds a lot stronger than all the other spirits. It certainly sounds like they have more authority over the lion turtles, whose only power besides their colossal size is the ability to grant bending.

It doesn't sit right with me because I'm not that familiar with it, a lion turtle commanded the immortal spirit of light and darkness to stay with Wan. Makes me think Raava doesn't have much authority over the spirit and physical world, and for being one of the two pillar spirits in the lore, it's just weird.

 

[FPLOON]

I thought it was actually a pretty good two episodes.

It does quite literally contradict everything we are told in Avatar the Last Airbender about how human got bending powers, but it was a goo enough of a retcon that I am willing to put the other stories behind as folklore/lost history in a pleasant manner.

Actually, I didn't think it was a retcon when it comes to the bending. The turtles gave Wan the power and the animals (like the dragon in the episode) taught him how to use it. It did leave something out though. Since the turtles said noone would receive bending powers from them again, it still has to be explained how the single-element benders happened.

Maybe most of the earlier Avatars after Wan were master fornicators... *pauses* I'll see myself out...

OT: I liked this two-parter's approach to the origin story of the first Avatar... (Wow... Wan's such an friendly powerhog! LOL!) The parallels were obvious and could be spoiler-ish (if they use the "history repeats itself" climax), but whatever... I still enjoyed it.

Lately, these two episodes and even the previous episode have all been the "don't like this new season, fandom? Well, get a load of this!" episodes... I find that funny to me... (Or maybe it's just me... *pauses* I'll see myself out...)

 

[FPLOON]

And no, I'm not just saying that because Wan was Aladdin, if Aladdin could breathe fire.

So, I wasn't the only one singing "One Jump Ahead" during those obvious moments of Aladdin-ness in the beginning of the episode? Or during his journey across the lands when I was singing "A Whole New World" "unintentionally"?

 

[Saltyk]

-snip-

It does seem more likely that Reeva was still semi-sentient and that Wan had a greater connection to the 2nd Avatar when the 2nd Avatar came into being.

Their story would be one of the most interesting because the world would probably consider them crazy... or perhaps since war was supposedly so common it could lead to the air benders having a very powerful weapon on their side. Maybe the second avatar dies before even mastering all 4 elements.

The Avatar series is a damn great series and deserves to have every Avatar investigated in some way. Nickelodeon has a goldmine of an IP here.

Just keep Shama-lama-ding-dong away from it...

This is true. It's probably one of the fullest universes out there right now. With plenty of room for comedy, tragedy, action, adventure, and even political intrigue. You could set nearly any type of story in the universe and it could work.

And there are so many stories they could tell. The first several Avatars would probably have some of the toughest journeys. And even some of the known Avatars could be interesting to explore, like Kyoshi and Yangchen. And, of course, future Avatars.

And I could imagine how the Second Avatar going to the Water Tribe and asking for a Water Bending master would go.

"I need a Water Bending master."
"But you're an Air Bender..."
"Yes, but you see, I'm the Avatar."
"The what?"
"The Avatar. The 'Bridge between the human and Spirit World'. Able to master all four elements."
"Sure, you are. Look, I don't have time for this. Shouldn't your people have kept you safe where you can't harm yourself or others?"

 

[klaynexas3]

For those talking about the "retcon" of the original benders, it actually helps out a lot more with the story of the first season of Legend of Korra. The reason why is because if people learned from animals in the wild, that meant that anyone could potentially learn to bend, all they had to do was practice extremely hard. But, with the Lion Turtle origins, this does mean that it truly has to be either given from a spirit, or from genetics, which is why non-benders could never learn to be benders unless they ran in to a Lion Turtle, or maybe even the Avatar, as Aang was given the ability to remove bending, and therefore could have the ability to give it also.

Anyway, this episode does give the series a little more gravity than it was originally going to have(considering it is the literal end of the world), so I kind of like that. I also don't like it due to liking the character driven part about it, and while I know they can do both, it'd still be nice to be mainly character driven, and not mostly plot driven.

 

[Drago-Morph]

As for your Lion Turtle dilemma, it did not seem like they had authority over Raava at all to me. She was in a weak position, not to mention she was actually weaker physically/spiritually/whatever term is appropriate here and the Lion Turtle made a judgment that she had to follow out of obligation for the safety of the world. At worst, they might be on par with each other in terms of wisdom or authority over matters or authority or wisdom over one another, if you ask me anyway.

I'm probably misinterpreting the lore, only because Avatar might be breaking away from the status quo of typical mythology. It's just... the spirit of light and peace that exists only to endlessly fight the spirit of darkness and chaos sounds a lot stronger than all the other spirits. It certainly sounds like they have more authority over the lion turtles, whose only power besides their colossal size is the ability to grant bending.

It doesn't sit right with me because I'm not that familiar with it, a lion turtle commanded the immortal spirit of light and darkness to stay with Wan. Makes me think Raava doesn't have much authority over the spirit and physical world, and for being one of the two pillar spirits in the lore, it's just weird.

It makes more sense when you realize that the elements are crazy important. Raava and Vaatu control the light/darkness and peace/chaos in the world, but the world itself is comprised of the elements. So essentially, without the elements, there'd be no reason for those two pillar spirits to exist; which is why the Lion Turtles are so important. They're the spirits that represent the world itself.

 

[HalfTangible]

I thought it was actually a pretty good two episodes.

It does quite literally contradict everything we are told in Avatar the Last Airbender about how human got bending powers, but it was a goo enough of a retcon that I am willing to put the other stories behind as folklore/lost history in a pleasant manner.

Maybe I'm forgetting something, but I don't see the contradiction. Humans used to bend energy, but eventually stopped (presumably before Wan came along) Bending was given to them later by the Lion-turtle-cities. =/ What exactly did it contradict?

 

[soren7550]

I thought it was ok. Granted, I watched it online, and the quality of the video was ok at best, so my opinion is skewed. Wan's end was surprising however.

 

[KazeAizen]

I thought it was actually a pretty good two episodes.

It does quite literally contradict everything we are told in Avatar the Last Airbender about how human got bending powers, but it was a goo enough of a retcon that I am willing to put the other stories behind as folklore/lost history in a pleasant manner.

Actually, I didn't think it was a retcon when it comes to the bending. The turtles gave Wan the power and the animals (like the dragon in the episode) taught him how to use it. It did leave something out though. Since the turtles said noone would receive bending powers from them again, it still has to be explained how the single-element benders happened.

All in all, loved both episodes. And again, you can see things coming in full circle. Wan was tricked to release Vaatu the same way Korra was tricked by her uncle to open the southern portal so that the Harmonic Convergence can take place.

Actually it did explain. Just subtly. When Wan's village decided to leave the Lion Turtle's protection you see them all receive the power from the turtle as they are walking off. So since they now have it it is passed down via birth.

 

[Yuuki]

Ha, I knew it! The more the show gets away from the trio and focuses on side-characters/backstories, the better it gets.

Kinda ironic.

 

[jamail77]

I'm probably misinterpreting the lore, only because Avatar might be breaking away from the status quo of typical mythology. It's just... the spirit of light and peace that exists only to endlessly fight the spirit of darkness and chaos sounds a lot stronger than all the other spirits. It certainly sounds like they have more authority over the lion turtles, whose only power besides their colossal size is the ability to grant bending.

It doesn't sit right with me because I'm not that familiar with it, a lion turtle commanded the immortal spirit of light and darkness to stay with Wan. Makes me think Raava doesn't have much authority over the spirit and physical world, and for being one of the two pillar spirits in the lore, it's just weird.

Raava angrily asked why she should hold the power of airbending for Wan and help him master it when he was ready. It was not something she was automatically agreeing to. I think it was more the atmosphere of the scene that bothered you than what was going on. The atmosphere of desperation and minor submissiveness might make you extrapolate that Raava is not in as high of a position as she really is. Like I said, to me, it just seemed like she was too weakened from Vaatu's rising strength to bother trying harder to do something on her own or disagree.

I don't think the Lion Turtles' only power is granting bending. They were all energybending to give bending and it seemed like they could use that same elemental bending, hence why they could grant it. I mean the Air Lion Turtle was hovering in the sky. I know you probably didn't mean it that literally, I just thought I'd say this anyway.

Also, it's interesting you say that it breaks away from typical mythology. Much of mythology involves many spirits, gods, or ethereal beings who are not equal to each other and try to get the upper hand over another whether for good reasons or bad, sometimes behind their agressors' backs and sometimes known by the aggressors (when trying to convince something for example). So, while Zeus should be at the very top Ares might try to challenge him by feeding heavily on human conflict and suffering in war, which has the power to rival Zeus (I got this from the Wonder Woman DC Animated Universe Original movie; I don't know how close that is to that specific actual mythology). Regardless how close I am to the truth on that, mythology is definitely not as black and white or modernly logical as popular culture or bad mythology school classes might make it appear. There's also a lot of mythological stories that involve Gods far pettier and foolish than humans; heck, humans make sacrifices and appease them to avoid being wiped out because the Gods feel like doing it on a whim or because they're bored or because they're not worshiped enough or for some other lousy reason. Then there's the stories of Gods utterly dumbfounded at the strength of humans even arguing it can rival their own when collectively used. So, some mythology has shown before the sort of scenarios you're describing as bothersome. Let's just say I agree with this guy:

It makes more sense when you realize that the elements are crazy important. Raava and Vaatu control the light/darkness and peace/chaos in the world, but the world itself is comprised of the elements. So essentially, without the elements, there'd be no reason for those two pillar spirits to exist; which is why the Lion Turtles are so important. They're the spirits that represent the world itself.

 

[Drummodino]

It almost felt like you were watching a different show at times, but finding out all the lore and history surrounding the origins of the Avatar was great.

The art style was very cool (especially the bending).

Hopefully now Korra has cooled off a bit and can start to act sensibly. I actually don't have much of a problem with how she's acted so far, but it's about time that she wises up to the situation and starts acting more like the Avatar. By connecting with Wan and Raava, hopefully she can develop her spiritual side now.

And she better or she'll be fucked when she has to fight Vaatu and Unalaq. I want to know how exactly Unalaq knew that Korra could open the spirit portal (and free Vaatu, or at least weaken his prison).

I'm very excited for the rest of the season now!

 

[Jynthor]

Definitely my favourite Korra episodes yet. Beautiful art style and interesting characters.

 

[Waxmeneer]

Actually, I didn't think it was a retcon when it comes to the bending.

I know others have already said this, but it doesn't contradict anything.

It actually does retcon it.

We were told that humans first learned bending via the flying bison, the dragons, the moon, and the mole things. However, we learn in beginning that the first benders got their powers from the lion turtles.

Now, while the humans may have learned to master thier elements by watching the animals, that doesn't change the fact that how they first got bending has changed.

Furthermore, the lion turtle in the original series said that before peopl started bending elements, they energybent, and yet, in beginnings, we see ZERO energybenders.

Another retcon.

Actually, that's not a retcon at all. Let's look at what the lion turtle said to aang.

'In the era before the Avatar, WE bent not the elements, but the energy within ourselves. To bend another's energy, your own spirit must be unbendable, or you will be corrupted and destroyed.'

And that's what they did and are still doing. The lion turtles (which he was talking about, not the humans) are using energybending to give the villagers that live on them the power of the element, which the villagers then develop by learning bending (e.g: the art of using the element, instead of just the possession of the element) from the moon/badger/dragons/whatever.

It all fits rather neatly if you think about it.

 

[books of war 13]

It was amazing the fight at the end was just so tense, all the characters were interesting and cool and it asked genuinely interesting questions about society.

I just have one question. Why wasn't the rest of Korra season 2 like this? Besides beginnings all the other episodes have had relatively weak characters (relatively) and the only redeeming feature was the comedy. I'm starting to think they just spent all their time on those 2 episodes. It's a bad sign if the best episodes of a series is the ones where all the main characters are pushed to the side and we have new ones.