KOTOR's Gameplay Sucks

BreakfastMan

Scandinavian Jawbreaker
Jul 22, 2010
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Asmodeus said:
BreakfastMan said:
Idk man, everything was so simplified and easy in KotOR, I could literally breeze though the combat (on hard) while being half asleep.
I have no damn idea how you would go about doing that, especially considering the difficulty of a number of fights in that game. You probably just rolled up a solly-guardian. Everything is piss-easy then.
And yea, if you were resting all the time and then complaining about how it was too easy, you def weren't 'doing it right'.
I was not complaining it was "too easy". Those are your words, not mine.
 

Milanezi

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Mar 2, 2009
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I enjoyed it. But I'd prefer a more action oriented gameplay. In my opinion the gameplay has little to do with RPG, it's the TAKING A ROLE and character development (such as heavy decision making, character creation, etc.) that sums up a good RPG. Star Wars KOTOR 1&2 made me feel like I had taken a role of my choosing and that I was making genuine choices, so even if I didn't like the gameplay much I didn't feel repelled by it.
Recently I got to playing it again and, well, recently the gameplay pushed me away, Neverwinter Nights did the same, and I'm also having problems playing Baldur's Gate EE... But in all those cases I have only one word: patience I lost my patience... Hulk smashes Hulk destroys (sith smile) lol
 

T'Generalissimo

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Nov 9, 2008
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I would argue with you about the story making up for it (or even being good at all), but I absolutely agree that KOTOR's combat is garbage. I actually did have some fun figuring out optimal builds and such (the flurry vs. power attack vs. crtical strike debate isn't actually as simple as a lot of people seem to think it is) but the game itself is basically the same fight several hundred times.
 

Talaris

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Sep 6, 2010
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As much as I love KOTOR (though I will most likely get burned at the stake for saying KOTOR2 is the better game), the gameplay strategies never changed much. In the final fight against Kreia, I just spammed Force Storm which is unblockable, and Force healed/medpacked a few times. From there it's really just a race to not get killed first.
 

WoahDan

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Sep 7, 2011
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Two things:

1. You're assuming that the speech choices are not part of gamplay,why? You have as much agency over them as you do combat. I would say that KOTOR's gameplay is pretty good, its combat gameplay is quite poor though.

2. So? Story trumping gameplay in RPG's is not exactly news, go play PLanescape if you dont believe me, this isnt really contoversial at all.
 

Blackdoom

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Sep 11, 2008
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I remember that the game became laughably easy for me when I got Force Storm or whatever it was called. I would just walk into the area cast that and loot all of the corpses. Rinse repeat and beat the game.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Yeah, I agree. Come to think of it, damn near all Bioware games have pretty crappy and/or boring gameplay. Well, crappy and boring to me, anyway. Only one of their games that was actually enjoyable to play was MDK2.

And it's on sale for $3 on GoG!

http://www.gog.com/gamecard/mdk_2
 

SageRuffin

M-f-ing Jedi Master
Dec 19, 2009
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Sixcess said:
Does anyone actually play Bioware games for the actual gameplay?
I like Jade Empire for the gameplay and narrative. That makes me special, right?

Right?? :'(
 

SageRuffin

M-f-ing Jedi Master
Dec 19, 2009
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Irridium said:
Yeah, I agree. Come to think of it, damn near all Bioware games have pretty crappy and/or boring gameplay. Only one of their games that was actually enjoyable to play was MDK2.
Wow... way to go me for being one of the many who forgot they co-developed that game.

Gameplay was kinda clunky, but then again I had the Dreamcast version so...
 

Nihlus2

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Feb 8, 2011
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Since it was an rpg, I did not really think much about the combat mechanics, as long as it did not subtract from the actual flow of the story or limited the main mechanics of the game. Which was the multiple conversation and choice system - it was fine in my book.

Bioware has never been known for their excelling combat mechanics. I still cringe a bit over Mass Effect's AI at times, or the lack of response in Dragon Age. Though for what it tried to emulate in Kotor, it suited the style just find. Simplistic? Quite, but for its time, it was still more deep than most of the stuff I tried. Action based hack and slash is fine, but it was nice with some variety, even if that alternative was much more static and simplistic.

You can't really decypher the colours from one another if there's only one present.

Besides. It is listed as a pure "Role-playing Game", not an "Action role-playing third person game", you get what is listed on the cover, I get the impression you expected something else :p

That said though; I will admit that the combat mechanics in the gameplay are really simplistic, and haven't aged well, that is true - ergo, bad as you stated yourself. But, for what it is, I still find it enjoyable as it literally tells you before you start up the game. "If you came here for awesome combat mechanics, that is not the focus of the game, it is the immersion, choice and roleplay, enjoy or see ya". What it set out to do, was give entertainment through a very interactive adventure - that was the challenge, that was the focus.

So even though I tend to agree with you, I feel like you're bashing it for things it never even was proud of or cared much about to begin with.

Then again, at the end of the day, I sincerely doubt this thread was even made for any sense of "care" or real gripe with the mechanics, but I do love to throw a tiny bit of fuel on the fire from time to time to keep the flames going.
 
Oct 2, 2012
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I liked the combat :(
It was simple, interesting to watch, and absolutely infuriating when I missed or didn't do as much damage as I would have wanted!

And I liked being overpowered in those games I'm a super jedi/sith and the heart of the force (in 1) or the possible death of it (in 2) and I should feel that way!

Plus I loved using blasters, screw sabers.... Blasters for life.
 

SonOfVoorhees

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Aug 3, 2011
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Game play might not be the best but at least it was fun to play through. All games don't have to have a deep and complex fighting system to make them playable. What it lacked in some areas it excelled in others. Hopefully they will make a 3rd on at some point and improve on the gameplay mechanics.
 

srm79

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Jan 31, 2010
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I can't disagree with many of the criticisms leveled at KotoR in terms of gameplay. It was clunky and confusing at first to someone who was drawn in as a Star Wars fan, but having never played many RPG's outside the Final Fantasy series, and who had never played a table top game more complex than "Space Crusade" when I was a kid.

The thing is, it quickly grabbed me by the collar, pulled me in and refused to let go until Malak was defeated and the galaxy saved! To this day, it is one of my all time favourite games and it was the story that did that. As I've discovered with subsequent Bioware titles, and as has been mentioned already, you don't really play a Bioware game for the gameplay. They do know how to pen a cracking good yarn though.

Cue incoming "MASS EFFECT 3 ENDING SUXZ0RZZ!!!!!!ONE!!!" barrage...which I don't entirely agree with either, but that's risking a bit of thread derailment so 'nuff said!
 

Milanezi

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Mar 2, 2009
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Asmodeus said:
Milanezi said:
I enjoyed it. But I'd prefer a more action oriented gameplay. In my opinion the gameplay has little to do with RPG, it's the TAKING A ROLE and character development (such as heavy decision making, character creation, etc.) that sums up a good RPG. Star Wars KOTOR 1&2 made me feel like I had taken a role of my choosing and that I was making genuine choices, so even if I didn't like the gameplay much I didn't feel repelled by it.
Recently I got to playing it again and, well, recently the gameplay pushed me away, Neverwinter Nights did the same, and I'm also having problems playing Baldur's Gate EE... But in all those cases I have only one word: patience I lost my patience... Hulk smashes Hulk destroys (sith smile) lol
God, another "me plays a role' RPGer. In most RPGs, you do spend alot of time in combat, so yea, it would be nice if the gameplay was good.

If I didn't care at all about combat/gameplay, I'd play an adventure game. If you don't care about gameplay/combat, why would you care about all this character building and such when most all of it is combat related anyway. If you're playing an RPG with a lot of non combat related abilities and oppurtunities to use them in a fun and meaningful way, then I can understand. But there's not too many of those games around.
You're perceiving creation as the distribution of points (well I distribute points in God of War to better fit my fighting style...), but i mean in the same way that the real me, as well as the real you, build and create our character, constantly through our actions and consequences. Games life Fallout, Baldur's Gate and even KOTOR, allowed me to raise my character like that, sometimes the impacts are really small, sometimes they are huge, and most of the times if you analise them deeply they are a lie (but that's what playing a role is all about).

You got something right though, adventure IS my favorite genre, however we only get shitty games nowadays with small exceptions. And even THEN all they deliver is a nice story, but even a FPS can deliver a nice story, what it can't deliver is the ROLE playing, the impact of, for instance, killing an NPC in Fallout 3 and getting all side quests that would involve that guy canceled. I went through the whole Deus Ex without killing a single target (but the bosses), okay, it's no true RPG, but it's an amalgamation of many games and the RPG element is big there, especially near the end.

Obviously, if whatever my character's been created BY ME for doesn't please me, than it becomes evident that either I or the game have a problem:
a) I'm retarded and enjoy creating character's who will spend the whole game doing something I'll hate. Then it's my fault. Example: playing Dungeons & Dragons as a half-orc healer, I hate everything here, I would NEVER make a character like that, it's subjective though, but it's just not my style.
b) The game presents an option to create a character who's really good at dialogue (the sort of stuff I like the most), but then throws an army of enemies at me and never presents the opportunity for me to use my abilities. In my opinion, the game shouldn't have made that an option to begin with then.
c) Last, but not least. I choose, say, a barbarian, but the game's poorly made, my actions have no consequence, the hack and slash is poor by every standard. Well then, the game failed because the gameplay as whole is broken, no matter what character you create, your experience will suck.
I both "b" and "c", I believe the game is fucked up. I believe that every game should be fun to what it intends to do, and it shouldn't intrude in other fields (like those games that try to mix ten genres into one) unless it succeeds in everyone. If it has a stealthy path to be taken it can't throw a very hard "must be killed by weapons" last boss (yes, Deus Ex, I love you, but you did that, punished everyone who chose to go stealth). But that doesn't apply to RPG only, it applies to every genre.

Anyway, what I was saying was that, as a RPG, Kotor, in my opinion, did not feel broken, the essence of RPG is playing a ROLE (of impact I dare say), it can be action oriented or not, and the RPG might even NOT present a non-violent path, it's okay as long as the action hits the mark (after all, it will be, necessarily where the fun lies). I felt like all alternative Kotor gave me were valid, my Jedi was indeed action oriented, with some hacking skills and good "persuasion" skill, and I enjoyed the action BACK THEN. Nowadays I no longer have the patience to to pause and release and prepare the fight, it's how I feel now, in fact, that means that as much as I care MOSTLY about the "moral creation" of my character, the action IS important to me (in Kotor at least) and nowadays it's enough that even though everything else still works fine, the action now falls short.

You got me wrong friend, gameplay is ALWAYS important, I know I said "gameplay has little to do with RPG", but what I meant to say is "the key factor is the ROLE playing". Gameplay is present in every game, if it doesn't work you don't have a game, you have a book or a movie wanna be that is also rendered fatally incomplete, it's a technical element that must work in balance with everything else, BUT some games can be more easily wounded by a bad gameplay, games like Call of Duty, that rely more on the technical interaction than the story interaction. It's hard to explain, but RPGs have a connection to the player that goes beyond gameplay per se, I'd say, it's making you feel like YOU and your character are one and the same, no matter the impact your actions are causing or not.
 

IronMit

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Jul 24, 2012
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I never got to play kotor 1, but i played 30 hours of kotor 2.
All the little outcomes and decisions are pretty cool but the actual gameplay aspect started to get annoying;

The difficulty curve jumped through the roof when that first assassin robot attacked me, then a few minutes later I had to fight 3 of them! They were standing still and I aimed so many lightsaber swings and they all missed. How hard can it be to hit a robot that is standing skill. I'm sure they could of used the D20 system better.

My build wasn't perfect because I didn't research before hand that dexterity is useless with lightsabers unless I have to specific upgrade. (when did lightsabers get heavy that I need strength?) I'm not moaning about difficulty just logic;i played skyrim on master, fallout new vegas on hardcore & halfway through dark souls at the moment so I don't think I have a problem hard games aslong as there is a reason. I don't want to find out 8 hours into the game every stat input is entirely wrong and I can't even land a hit on a gun that is stuck to the ground.

I wanted to go the stealth root. So had cloak upgrading stats. It was so frustrating to use. I planted a mine infront of someone then backed off....uncloak and attack with my team mates...and the guy will stand still or my men would set it off

I then edited the save file..gave myself a stat boost in 3 areas...so i can be invisible and actually hit a lightsaber swing. Then the game got boring

Yeah i know i'm missing the point of the game but I don't care. I loved mass effect 1. might give dragon age origins a go
 
Sep 14, 2009
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SonOfVoorhees said:
Game play might not be the best but at least it was fun to play through. All games don't have to have a deep and complex fighting system to make them playable. What it lacked in some areas it excelled in others. Hopefully they will make a 3rd on at some point and improve on the gameplay mechanics.
agree with this. it "worked", and if i remember right i think there are some "hardcore hard of all hardcoreness bro mode" mods out there that make each fight a bloody quicksave/load match to figure out how to beat them.

and as mentioned by previous people, the actual combat didn't bother me, getting to play an rpg and customize myself to kingdom come in an enthralling storyline is what has gotten me to play the game 30+ times.