Lack of JRPGs entirely predictable.

[DigitalAtlas]

So, I got into a discussion the other day and would love some input on it. Maybe even some fact checking. So, let's sum this up as quickly as possible!:

JRPGs nearly disappearing this generation is an entirely predictable event, in hindsight, especially in the west. The JRPG has always been a niche genre, it was just a big enough niche no one ever took notice. That is, until games went mainstream. Then you'd have that awkward talk with your friends who just bought Black about Final Fantasy XII and DOS ABS the next day in school.

Argument: JRPG's didn't get less popular at all. The medium itself grew by the millions and the JRPG failed at attracting new fans.

Agree? Disagree? I'm wrong entirely? Let's talk!

EDIT: And yes, I know of FFVII and how little of a niche title it is. Exception to the rule? Most definitely. It's weird how many people say that was their first JRPG. I'm blaming magazine hype, well done commercials (if it had any), and random purchases and universal praise for that one.

 

[hazabaza1]

JRPGs nearly disappearing this generation

AHAHHAHAHAHHA
HAHAHAHAH
HAHAH
HA

You're funny.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

JRPGs nearly disappearing this generation

AHAHHAHAHAHHA
HAHAHAHAH
HAHAH
HA

You're funny.

Go look at the flood of JRPGs on PS2, kk? I can name about ten this gen. Even fewer are any good.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

I hope you see the obvious oxymoron present in the phrase big niche genre. Now excuse me while I go eat my jumbo shrimp, ride my mini-van home, and have myself a long nap.

 

[hazabaza1]

JRPGs nearly disappearing this generation

AHAHHAHAHAHHA
HAHAHAHAH
HAHAH
HA

You're funny.

Go look at the flood of JRPGs on PS2, kk? I can name about ten this gen. Even fewer are any good.

Keep in mind that the PS2's lifespan is over now, while current gen consoles are still going. On top of that, PS2 had massive 3rd party support, so it had a lot of games in most genres.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

I hope you see the obvious oxymoron present in the phrase big niche genre. Now excuse me while I go eat my jumbo shrimp, ride my mini-van home, and have myself a long nap.

Uggh... Missing the point....

Anyway, a niche can be any size. It's what it is relative to is what makes it a niche by the definition you're using and, ya know, not the dictionary's.

Translation: It's always been the saaaaame demographic and primary audience. It just didn't grow when the industry did.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

JRPGs nearly disappearing this generation

AHAHHAHAHAHHA
HAHAHAHAH
HAHAH
HA

You're funny.

Go look at the flood of JRPGs on PS2, kk? I can name about ten this gen. Even fewer are any good.

Keep in mind that the PS2's lifespan is over now, while current gen consoles are still going. On top of that, PS2 had massive 3rd party support, so it had a lot of games in most genres.

Yes, they're going on for a whole 'nuther year! I see four Final Fantasies on the horizon, a Chrono Trigger remake, Wild Arms 6, and another Breath of Fire.

...Or we can be realistic and realize the Xbox 360 and PS3 both thrive mostly off of third party support and that JRPGs barely exist on either console.

But I'll humor you and count the quality titles:

PS3- Folklore (I'm being reeeeeaaaallllllllly generous), Valkyria Chronicles, Tales of Graces F. (SO MANY GAMES!)

Xbox 360- Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, and Tales of Vesperia (WHOA!)

Both: Star Ocean: The Last Hope, Eternal Sonata, and FFXIII and FFXIII-2.

I'm over-whelmed by the amount of JRPGs. Aren't you?

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

I hope you see the obvious oxymoron present in the phrase big niche genre. Now excuse me while I go eat my jumbo shrimp, ride my mini-van home, and have myself a long nap.

Uggh... Missing the point....

Anyway, a niche can be any size. It's what it is relative to is what makes it a niche by the definition you're using and, ya know, not the dictionary's.

Translation: It's always been the saaaaame demographic and primary audience. It just didn't grow when the industry did.

Except I only started playing JRPGs as a teenager. I have a friend who's first Final Fantasy was 13 (which sold excellently by the way). The genre is capable of achieving mainstream success in the west, it just needs to actually be advertised on the same level that comparably large western games are, which really isn't happening right now as Japanese publishers and developers are quite a bit smaller.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

I hope you see the obvious oxymoron present in the phrase big niche genre. Now excuse me while I go eat my jumbo shrimp, ride my mini-van home, and have myself a long nap.

Uggh... Missing the point....

Anyway, a niche can be any size. It's what it is relative to is what makes it a niche by the definition you're using and, ya know, not the dictionary's.

Translation: It's always been the saaaaame demographic and primary audience. It just didn't grow when the industry did.

Except I only started playing JRPGs as a teenager. I have a friend who's first Final Fantasy was 13 (which sold excellently by the way). The genre is capable of achieving mainstream success in the west, it just needs to actually be advertised on the same level that comparably large western games are, which really isn't happening right now as Japanese publishers and developers are quite a bit smaller.

>JP publishers smaller

Capcom is gigantc. Square Enix could own half of the world. Nintendo is HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE. And Nexon, the Korea based free-ware MMO studio, has enough money to buy EA.

When talking about Japan and the Western market, refer to Keiji Inafune. To sum it up: they're coasting off of old success and not adapting. Like Guns N' Roses.

The fact is, a JRPG is never going to sell on the same level as a game like Uncharted, Halo, or Gears. It really is a niche genre with a smaller demographic. Why do you think we had to fight to get three Wii games over here?

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

I hadn't actually noticed any kind of critical decline in jrpgs this gen.

There are tons on the DS and PSP, and I'm sure there will be tons on the Vita and the 3DS, I don't think they are declining, they are just moving.
As someone who is apparently part of your large jrpg niche, I don't feel starved for games.

What I haven't seen this gen is a lot of cute mascot oriented platformers. Besides Ratchet and Clank, and a few series that refuse to die.

 

[Kahunaburger]

But I'll humor you and count the quality titles:

PS3- Folklore (I'm being reeeeeaaaallllllllly generous), Valkyria Chronicles, Tales of Graces F. (SO MANY GAMES!)

Xbox 360- Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, and Tales of Vesperia (WHOA!)

Both: Star Ocean: The Last Hope, Eternal Sonata, and FFXIII and FFXIII-2.

I'm over-whelmed by the amount of JRPGs. Aren't you?

You may have heard of it. Also Monster Hunter series, DISGAEA 4, and Ni No Kuni, for the PS3. That's off the top of my head, I don't own a PS3, and I generally don't play JRPGs. Someone who actually does could probably give you a giant list, as could 10 seconds on google.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

I hadn't actually noticed any kind of critical decline in jrpgs this gen.

There are tons on the DS and PSP, and I'm sure there will be tons on the Vita and the 3DS, I don't think they are declining, they are just moving.
As someone who is apparently part of your large jrpg niche, I don't feel starved for games.

What I haven't seen this gen is a lot of cute mascot oriented platformers. Besides Ratchet and Clank, and a few series that refuse to die.

You. You can stay and talk.

While there are tons on PSP, they're mostly remakes. DS has a lot but it's not the same as big console releases like what the PS2 and PS1 had. It would take half a life time to count all the RPGs from the fifth and sixth generation consoles.

After exploring elder consoles and truly exploring the genre outside of "Hey gaiz,I bought FFVII on the PSN! KAWAIIRIGHT?!?!?!?," I honestly felt ripped off this generation. Honestly, go to vsrecommendedgameswiki and just look at all the RPGs on both the PS1 and PS2. Now remember the Saturn, Dreamcast, Gamecube, and even original Xbox had a handful or two of JRPGs. We shouldn't feel starved. No, we should feel like we've been surviving our last seven years on blades of grass and dew and then someone came and dangled a piece of fried chicken in front of us with Xenoblade.

But I'll humor you and count the quality titles:

PS3- Folklore (I'm being reeeeeaaaallllllllly generous), Valkyria Chronicles, Tales of Graces F. (SO MANY GAMES!)

Xbox 360- Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, and Tales of Vesperia (WHOA!)

Both: Star Ocean: The Last Hope, Eternal Sonata, and FFXIII and FFXIII-2.

I'm over-whelmed by the amount of JRPGs. Aren't you?

You may have heard of it. Also Monster Hunter series, DISGAEA 4, and Ni No Kuni, for the PS3. That's off the top of my head, I don't own a PS3, and I generally don't play JRPGs. Someone who actually does could probably give you a giant list, as could 10 seconds on google.

>Monster Hunter
>Only on Wii, a system not mentioned here

>Dark Souls

LOL You think Dark Souls is a JRPG... Good one. Dark Souls is a game made by Japanese developers yes, but filled with nothing but Western themes and elements from Western games. The devs have been quoted saying it's more of an action game, any way.

>Digaea 4

I said quality titles.

>Ni No Kuni

..Did you really list a JP-only game?

You can't stay and talk.

EDIT: I wouldn't bust out the "you may have heard of Dark Souls" joke too often, btw. It didn't exactly sell elegantly enough to support the cocky remark.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

I hope you see the obvious oxymoron present in the phrase big niche genre. Now excuse me while I go eat my jumbo shrimp, ride my mini-van home, and have myself a long nap.

Uggh... Missing the point....

Anyway, a niche can be any size. It's what it is relative to is what makes it a niche by the definition you're using and, ya know, not the dictionary's.

Translation: It's always been the saaaaame demographic and primary audience. It just didn't grow when the industry did.

Except I only started playing JRPGs as a teenager. I have a friend who's first Final Fantasy was 13 (which sold excellently by the way). The genre is capable of achieving mainstream success in the west, it just needs to actually be advertised on the same level that comparably large western games are, which really isn't happening right now as Japanese publishers and developers are quite a bit smaller.

>JP publishers smaller

Capcom is gigantc. Square Enix could own half of the world. Nintendo is HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE. And Nexon, the Korea based free-ware MMO studio, has enough money to buy EA.

When talking about Japan and the Western market, refer to Keiji Inafune. To sum it up: they're coasting off of old success and not adapting. Like Guns N' Roses.

The fact is, a JRPG is never going to sell on the same level as a game like Uncharted, Halo, or Gears. It really is a niche genre with a smaller demographic. Why do you think we had to fight to get three Wii games over here?

Of those publishers you mentioned only Nintendo is larger than Activision or EA, with Capcom being a fraction of their size, but that doesn't change the realities of game development in Japan. They are given less money to make games that they are pressured into making absurdly graphically powerful with a smaller team and have to build a new engine from scratch. This is why these games are not being made much anymore, it just isn't economically feasible given the current system of making these games. As for Keiji, he's a moron. New ideas come up all the time in all parts of the industry, including Japan, and I have no idea what this has to do with your argument that JRPGs are failing because of a lack of an audience. As for why we had to fight so hard, Nintendo of America is made of morons. Seriously, those guys are fucking idiots. It has nothing to do with a lack of an audience.

 

[Kahunaburger]

LOL You think Dark Souls is a JRPG... Good one.

Oh, no, don't tell me you're one of the people who takes Extra Credits seriously on RPGs (or in general).

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

>Dark Souls

LOL You think Dark Souls is a JRPG... Good one. Dark Souls is a game made by Japanese developers yes, but filled with nothing but Western themes and elements from Western games. The devs have been quoted saying it's more of an action game, any way.

I'd make the argument that JRPGs aren't actually a distinct genre from WRPGs. They were both brought about from the same roots (DnD and early games based on it), both incorporate very similar gameplay styles, both are rooted in the concept of roleplaying. Really, there is little that actually separates them beyond perception.

 

[LilithSlave]

AHAHHAHAHAHHA
HAHAHAHAH
HAHAH
HA

You're funny.

They're not?

I wish they weren't. And I hate how people use their lack of popularity this generation, against them. With things like "Japan needs to stop making jRPGs ever again, Westerners don't want that anime crap." But I can't deny they're right that the genre has become less popular or plentiful just to spite them. Believe me, I'd like to pretend otherwise. I really would. Furthermore, Japanese style RPG numbers are starting to be replaced by Japanese developers trying to make Western RPGs.

Here, let's us the limited, but still best database for video gaming in the internet I know of thus far, to help me show this and source my claim.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps3/list-71
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps3/list-73
http://www.gamefaqs.com/xbox360/list-71
http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/list-71
http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/list-48
This generation of consoles.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/list-71
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/list-73
http://www.gamefaqs.com/xbox/list-71
http://www.gamefaqs.com/gamecube/list-71
http://www.gamefaqs.com/gamecube/list-48
Last generation of consoles.

The PlayStation 2 has more than twice as many jRPGs as the PlayStation 3. And well more than all of the consoles this generation put together. Most of the "Action RPGs" from the PlayStation 3 are wRPGs. While most of the Action RPGs on the PlayStation 2 are jRPGs.

Sure, the XBOX and Gamecube of last generation may not have had much. But I can see a clear difference in number between them. The lion's share each generation come from Sony. The XBOX number of jRPGs has gone up a little bit. But the Nintendo number of jRPGs has stayed pretty much the same. Both just having a little over a dozen real jRPGs.

 

[LilithSlave]

Oh, no, don't tell me you're one of the people who takes Extra Credits seriously on RPGs (or in general).

You and I agree on a lot. But not here. I'm with Extra Credits on this one, that while "jRPG" might not be the best term. jRPGs and wRPGs seem to be two distinct genres.

But at least just referring them all as "RPGs" would be less segregation. And the RPG industry and community is pretty segregation and a bitter area right now. As fights between jRPG and wRPG folks are one of the great video game flamewars of our time. Sadly, my end, the jRPG end, seems to be losing. Publishers and video game publications are siding with the wRPG folks.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

Of those publishers you mentioned only Nintendo is larger than Activision or EA, with Capcom being a fraction of their size, but that doesn't change the realities of game development in Japan. They are given less money to make games that they are pressured into making absurdly graphically powerful with a smaller team and have to build a new engine from scratch. This is why these games are not being made much anymore, it just isn't economically feasible given the current system of making these games. As for Keiji, he's a moron. New ideas come up all the time in all parts of the industry, including Japan, and I have no idea what this has to do with your argument that JRPGs are failing because of a lack of an audience. As for why we had to fight so hard, Nintendo of America is made of morons. Seriously, those guys are fucking idiots. It has nothing to do with a lack of an audience.

You. You can stay too.

>Keiji Inafune a moron

I'm coming off as civil as a guy with a Mega Man avatar can here when I say: Trust me, I've done a lot of studying into eastern development practices. They're pretty.... terrible. The only people in Japan, who aren't owned by Nintendo, that come up with really cool and new ideas are the guys over at Platinum Games. You are right about some practices however, they are given far less money, especially games publishers like Atlus and XSEED grab. Capcom is the exception generally having rather large budgets only to not use it to the fullest extent.

Back to JRPGs now, NoA isn't as bad as Jim Sterling made them out to be. I know it's shocking, but they actually try a lot of things. In fact, they wanted a Zelda HD collection for the 25th anniversary of the franchise. I know there were even charts showing how well games sold, but Nintendo hasn't given a flying eff about sales since ever. What NoA saw, was a lot of poor localization complaints (especially towards Muramasa, NiGHTS, and Arc Rise Fantasia)and was trying to avoid that by not sullying their brand. It was actually intelligent NOT to bring the games over right away. But it shouldn't have had to go as far as it did.

Still, most of those games localized on Wii? 200,000 units is not at all a lot in this industry anymore. It's, in fact, reason to close shop.

 

[Kahunaburger]

This argument against Dark Souls being a JRPG is nothing but blatant moving of the goal posts.

Although that basically summarizes this guy's style in a nutshell

His point is that JRPGs are nearly disappearing (if you ignore half of the platforms out there and 95% of the JRPGs released on the platforms you do pay attention to for basically arbitrary reasons.)

...dude, I just realized something. OP, are you Karutomaru?