Lack of JRPGs entirely predictable.

[HardkorSB]

So, I got into a discussion the other day and would love some input on it. Maybe even some fact checking. So, let's sum this up as quickly as possible!:

JRPGs nearly disappearing this generation is an entirely predictable event, in hindsight, especially in the west. The JRPG has always been a niche genre, it was just a big enough niche no one ever took notice. That is, until games went mainstream. Then you'd have that awkward talk with your friends who just bought Black about Final Fantasy XII and DOS ABS the next day in school.

Argument: JRPG's didn't get less popular at all. The medium itself grew by the millions and the JRPG failed at attracting new fans.

Agree? Disagree? I'm wrong entirely? Let's talk!

EDIT: And yes, I know of FFVII and how little of a niche title it is. Exception to the rule? Most definitely. It's weird how many people say that was their first JRPG. I'm blaming magazine hype, well done commercials (if it had any), and random purchases and universal praise for that one.

Look at this chart of Japan's top selling games in 2011:

http://www.vgchartz.com/yearly/2011/Japan/

Do you see how many JRPG's are there? Just because most of them don't get published outside of Japan doesn't mean there are any less of them.

 

[Scow2]

>Dark Souls

LOL You think Dark Souls is a JRPG... Good one. Dark Souls is a game made by Japanese developers yes, but filled with nothing but Western themes and elements from Western games. The devs have been quoted saying it's more of an action game, any way.

I'd make the argument that JRPGs aren't actually a distinct genre from WRPGs. They were both brought about from the same roots (DnD and early games based on it), both incorporate very similar gameplay styles, both are rooted in the concept of roleplaying. Really, there is little that actually separates them beyond perception.

Aye, I can attest to this.

If Dark Souls is a Western RPG, then Baldur's Gate(1&2), Dragon Age(1&2 Again), Planescape: Torment, Knights of the Old Republic(1&2), and Mass Effect (1,2,&3) are all JRPGs.

dark/demon soul would probably be an action game along the lines of devil may cry or god of war than rpg. it is a game that focuses on reflexes rather than thinking. does it have rpg elements? sure, but nearly every game has RPG elements in it.

although, it is labeled as an action rpg, so there goes that argument out of the window. still wierd that game is labeled a rpg when its mechanics are nearly the same as devil may cry, an action game. in fact DMC is more like a rpg than demon soul.

Actually, Dark/Demon Souls is heavily focused on Thinking. You just need the reflexes as well.

 

[Ryotknife]

dark/demon soul would probably be an action game along the lines of devil may cry or god of war than rpg. it is a game that focuses on reflexes rather than thinking. does it have rpg elements? sure, but nearly every game has RPG elements in it.

although, it is labeled as an action rpg, so there goes that argument out of the window. still wierd that game is labeled a rpg when its mechanics are nearly the same as devil may cry, an action game. in fact DMC is more like a rpg than demon soul.

Actually dark souls has a lot of RPG elements.

Yeah the combat is actiony but there are tons of stats (about 9 i think). each stat has a lot to do with damage of your weapons and every weapon has a stat requirement. You also have a weight and inventory system. You can upgrade your weapons from +1 to +15 or along many of the weapons branching upgrade paths. There's a stat for large heavy weapons a stat for small light weapons a stat for HP, stamina, the amount of spells you can hold, there's a stat for your normal magicky sorceries, and there's a stat for your priestly miracles.

In fact the only thing seperating dark souls from a pure RPG is involved combat.

or story
or characters
or ability to play as an individual in a world (a la skyrim or fallout).

havent played dark souls, so maybe its different. but in demon souls i had a block ability, strong attack, weak attack, and parry. after 10 hours of playing i still had those same abilities and no new ones.

 

[TaintedSaint]

Dark souls is a jrpg only because it was made in japan. The term JRpg and Wrpg is more of a genre classification then about the location of where it was made. So in my opinion even though it was made in japan it is still a westen style rpg.
And the reason why jrpgs are not as popular anymore because there is little choice in jrpgs. Some people like some role playing in their RPGs not an interactive movie with a bunch of stats *Cough Final Fantasy *cough

 

[OrpheusTelos]

. Some people like some role playing in their RPGs

Lol. Role playing in a video game. Good one.

 

[Burst6]

or story
or characters
or ability to play as an individual in a world (a la skyrim or fallout).

havent played dark souls, so maybe its different. but in demon souls i had a block ability, strong attack, weak attack, and parry. after 10 hours of playing i still had those same abilities and no new ones.

The story is there, it's just less obvious. It's minimalistic but it's still pretty interesting. It's one of those theorycrafting types.

The characters are pretty much the same. They don't really say much about themselves outright, and everything you find out about them usually comes from item descriptions and hidden dialogue from other characters, but you'll get the basic idea of most of them.

and i don't get the third one. what do you mean play as an individual in a world? I'm pretty sure you're an individual in dark souls playing in a world.


Oh and in skyrim after 10 hours of playing i still have the normal attacks and 4 directional power attacks. Yeah i get new magic but so does dark souls.

If i start the game with a longsword and i want a strength build eventually I'll be using a giant cleaver that attacks differently. Oh and you get more attacks in dark souls than in demon souls

strong attack, weak attack, special attack (A front kick for most weapons, a backflip slash for scimitars, and a backwards dodging attack for rapiers) and jump attack.

And every weapons in dark souls has a unique strong attack.

 

[Ryotknife]

or story
or characters
or ability to play as an individual in a world (a la skyrim or fallout).

havent played dark souls, so maybe its different. but in demon souls i had a block ability, strong attack, weak attack, and parry. after 10 hours of playing i still had those same abilities and no new ones.

The story is there, it's just less obvious. It's minimalistic but it's still pretty interesting. It's one of those theorycrafting types.

The characters are pretty much the same. They don't really say much about themselves outright, and everything you find out about them usually comes from item descriptions and hidden dialogue from other characters, but you'll get the basic idea of most of them.

and i don't get the third one. what do you mean play as an individual in a world? I'm pretty sure you're an individual in dark souls playing in a world.


Oh and in skyrim after 10 hours of playing i still have the normal attacks and 4 directional power attacks. Yeah i get new magic but so does dark souls.

If i start the game with a longsword and i want a strength build eventually I'll be using a giant cleaver that attacks differently. Oh and you get more attacks in dark souls than in demon souls

strong attack, weak attack, special attack (A front kick for most weapons, a backflip slash for scimitars, and a backwards dodging attack for rapiers) and jump attack.

And every weapons in dark souls has a unique strong attack.

what i meant by the third comment was that in skyrim or fallout, you are dumped into an expansive world and can do whatever you want. you can mess around, do the main storyline, explore, etc. you can actually role play. cant do that at all in dark souls.

dark souls is nowhere close to a rpg. platformers have closer to rpgs than demon souls. devil may cry and god of war is closer to a rpg. dark souls is the very defintion of an action game. a game that relies on reaction time, has zero story or character story, and whose combat remains the exact same from the moment you start till the end. it is a very challenging game, however in my opinion it is also a very boring game, especially since 90+% of the combat that i did revolved around block and attack.

and there is nothing wrong with that. just not my cup of tea.

if dark souls is a rpg, then every game is a rpg.

oh, and in skyrim im constantly switching between 2x swords for regular melee, sword and shield, archery, 2x daggers for sneak assassinations, and spells. the combat in vastly more varied than dark/demon souls.

 

[Burst6]

what i meant by the third comment was that in skyrim or fallout, you are dumped into an expansive world and can do whatever you want. you can mess around, do the main storyline, explore, etc. you can actually role play. cant do that at all in dark souls.

dark souls is nowhere close to a rpg. platformers have closer to rpgs than demon souls. devil may cry and god of war is closer to a rpg. dark souls is the very defintion of an action game. a game that relies on reaction time, has zero story or character story, and whose combat remains the exact same from the moment you start till the end. it is a very challenging game, however in my opinion it is also a very boring game, especially since 90+% of the combat that i did revolved around block and attack.

and there is nothing wrong with that. just not my cup of tea.

if dark souls is a rpg, then every game is a rpg.

oh, and in skyrim im constantly switching between 2x swords for regular melee, sword and shield, archery, 2x daggers for sneak assassinations, and spells. the combat in vastly more varied than dark/demon souls.

You're dumped in an expansive world in dark souls (It's all open world). It's not as expansive as skyrim but its not linear either. You create your character by yourself and you actively influence the lives of other characters in the game by your choice. Yeah it's not as expansive as skyrim but it's there and just because it's smaller doesn't mean its nonexistent.

And i repeat, dark souls has a story. A pretty interesting one as well. Its just out of the way. I like the story in dark souls a lot more than skyrim too. To me it felt like neither dark souls or skyrim tried very hard with the story, instead focusing on combat and exploration respectively, but for the effort dark souls pulled it off better. Maybe it's because the story just has an air of mystery and the atmosphere helps it, and maybe the fact that i had to look for it sweetened it for me, but i definitely enjoyed the dark souls story more.


And the combat in skyrim remains the same from start to finish too. Any perks you get can be matched by the stat growth in dark souls in terms of RPGness. If you pick 2-handed weapons in skyrim in the end you're doing pretty much the same thing you started with.

And from that last paragraph I'm guessing you haven't played too much of the souls series.
skyrim weapons.
1-handed, 2-handed, dual wielding, shields, bows, and the 6 spell casting schools.
dark souls weapons.
18 categories of melee/ranged weapons(each can be held in 1 or two hands), 4 categories of shields(that can be used as weapons too), and 3 categories of spell casting weapons (for each of the 3 spell schools)

Personally i keep a primary weapon, an off hand (a shield normally, a parrying dagger if I'm feeling brave), a secondary weapon (a dagger/rapier for backstabs, a bow/greatbow/crossbow for range, spellcasting tool for magic), and a secondary off hand(usually a spellcasting tool for enchanting weapons).

personally i can't believe you actually played the souls series. I could accept a lot of criticisms against dark souls (Like the ending isn't fleshed out enough, sometimes its just way too unfair, PVP is really annoying if you try to start playing it exclusively, etc..), and i know that video game genres are vague and very poorly defined in general, but saying that devil may cry is more of an RPG than dark souls is just wrong.

 

[dimensional]

I was going to contribute but I get the feeling doing so would be rather pointless when people cant even agree on what defines a JRPG or WRPG in the first place.

Maybe we should define what an RPG is first in relation to videogames no actually dont bother I dont want to have that discussion again.

So I suppose like these variables whether you think they are disappearing is all down to perception.

 

[GoaThief]

I own 18 360 games, all of them are JRPGs.

OK

Divinity II

Is a European (Belgian) wRPG.