Lack of JRPGs entirely predictable.

[malestrithe]

Even though I consider anyone that needs to respond to every single post to not have much of an argument (why else would they try to combat everything) I feel happy to prove you wrong on this one.

I own 18 360 games, all of them are JRPGs. In addition to the eight good ones, Tales of Vesperia, Infinite Undiscovery, The Last Remnant, Enchanted Arms, Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey, Final Fantasy 13 and Blue Dragon, I also have, Record of Agarest War, Argarest War Zero, Phantasy Star Universe, Divinity II, Resonance of Fate, Spectral Forces 3, Culdcept Saga, Final Fantasy 13-2, and Star Ocean: the Last Hope.

My Ps3 collection is a little more diverse, but for JRPGs, there is Last Rebellion, Valkyria Chronicles, Cross Edge, Ateliar Rorona, Ateliar Totori, Hyperdimension Neptunia, White Knight Chronicles, White Knight Chronicles 2, Disgaea 3, Disgaea 4, Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Tales of Graces F, Rune Factory, and about 10 more being released by the end of the year.

Well, because the Wii is off the table for some reason, I am not going to bother writing down the 40 JRPGs I own on that system. Nor Will I include the 35 DS and 25 PSP games either.

I could go on, but the point is that while not as popular as AAA titles, they are still doing quite well amongst its niche market. There is certainly more of them than Western RPGs available.

Extra Credit's description of Western and Japanese role-playing game confuses the issue even more. They really mean sandbox RPG and story driven RPG. Where they are developed makes them Western or Japanese.

 

[VulpesAqua]

>Dark Souls

LOL You think Dark Souls is a JRPG... Good one. Dark Souls is a game made by Japanese developers yes, but filled with nothing but Western themes and elements from Western games. The devs have been quoted saying it's more of an action game, any way.

Bull-fucking-shit.

This argument against Dark Souls being a JRPG is nothing but blatant moving of the goal posts.

A JRPG is defined as an RPG that is made in Japan. Dark Souls is that. Therefore, it is a Japanese RPG, or JRPG!

The fact that it has western themes doesn't change shit. You know Bioware, that veritable pillar of WRPG games? They made Jade Empire, an RPG set in mythological China. By your logic, Jade Empire is more of a JRPG than it is a WRPG, because it deals with an Eastern setting, Eastern myths and Eastern ideas.

Except that Jade Empire plays like a Western RPG, as does Dark Souls, even were it not to include the Westernized Fantasy mythos it still plays like a Western RPG, with a heavy emphasis on customization, exploration, combat, and stats. All things that are missing from JRPGs.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

JRPGs haven't decreased, but they haven't grown either. The number of releases getting localized has definitely dropped compared to the PS2 era, but over in Japan, they still sell like hotcakes.

The big problem is that the JRPG hasn't grown the same way that Western development has. At one time, Japan dominated the games industry, and in a way, they still hold a lion's share of all released games. However, in the late 90s early 2000s, the Western market exploded, with PC gaming still going strong, and the Xbox being the a huge contender as a western developed console.

The Western market continues to grow exponentially, while the Japanese market becomes more and more secluded.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

JRPGs nearly disappearing this generation

AHAHHAHAHAHHA
HAHAHAHAH
HAHAH
HA

You're funny.

Go look at the flood of JRPGs on PS2, kk? I can name about ten this gen. Even fewer are any good.

Keep in mind that the PS2's lifespan is over now, while current gen consoles are still going. On top of that, PS2 had massive 3rd party support, so it had a lot of games in most genres.

Yes, they're going on for a whole 'nuther year! I see four Final Fantasies on the horizon, a Chrono Trigger remake, Wild Arms 6, and another Breath of Fire.

...Or we can be realistic and realize the Xbox 360 and PS3 both thrive mostly off of third party support and that JRPGs barely exist on either console.

But I'll humor you and count the quality titles:

PS3- Folklore (I'm being reeeeeaaaallllllllly generous), Valkyria Chronicles, Tales of Graces F. (SO MANY GAMES!)

Xbox 360- Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, and Tales of Vesperia (WHOA!)

Both: Star Ocean: The Last Hope, Eternal Sonata, and FFXIII and FFXIII-2.

I'm over-whelmed by the amount of JRPGs. Aren't you?

While I'm here, I'll add a couple more to your list.

motherfucking Xenoblade. Thats kind of a big omission.

White Knight Chronicles 1 and 2, Nier (awesome game, check it out!), Demon's/Dark Souls (Not JRPGs in the traditional sense, but they are Japanese RPGs ;P ), Disgaea 3 and 4. We've also got Ni no Kuni and The Last Story on the horizon.

Also, keep in mind that a lot of great JRPGs came out on handhelds this gen.

I'd agree that we see fewer, but I'm not sure I agree with the rest of your argument. The way I see it, we just don't see as many RPGs in general these days, and the ones we do get are either a) enormous hits, or b) completely obscure. I do think that we'll see JRPGs come back in a big way somewhere down the road.

EDIT: Forgot Resonance of Fate! That game was pretty sweet.

 

[Epona]

I hadn't actually noticed any kind of critical decline in jrpgs this gen.

There are tons on the DS and PSP, and I'm sure there will be tons on the Vita and the 3DS, I don't think they are declining, they are just moving.
As someone who is apparently part of your large jrpg niche, I don't feel starved for games.

What I haven't seen this gen is a lot of cute mascot oriented platformers. Besides Ratchet and Clank, and a few series that refuse to die.

Sure you noticed the decline, you had to move from the PS2 to handhelds. How the hell could you not notice?

 

[Ryotknife]

But I'll humor you and count the quality titles:

PS3- Folklore (I'm being reeeeeaaaallllllllly generous), Valkyria Chronicles, Tales of Graces F. (SO MANY GAMES!)

Xbox 360- Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, and Tales of Vesperia (WHOA!)

Both: Star Ocean: The Last Hope, Eternal Sonata, and FFXIII and FFXIII-2.

I'm over-whelmed by the amount of JRPGs. Aren't you?

You may have heard of it. Also Monster Hunter series, DISGAEA 4, and Ni No Kuni, for the PS3. That's off the top of my head, I don't own a PS3, and I generally don't play JRPGs. Someone who actually does could probably give you a giant list, as could 10 seconds on google.

dark/demon soul would probably be an action game along the lines of devil may cry or god of war than rpg. it is a game that focuses on reflexes rather than thinking. does it have rpg elements? sure, but nearly every game has RPG elements in it.

although, it is labeled as an action rpg, so there goes that argument out of the window. still wierd that game is labeled a rpg when its mechanics are nearly the same as devil may cry, an action game. in fact DMC is more like a rpg than demon soul.

 

[neverarine]

your right ive seen less of them... not surprising since the storys have been the same for 10 years now...

 

[verdant monkai]

So, I got into a discussion the other day and would love some input on it. Maybe even some fact checking. So, let's sum this up as quickly as possible!:

JRPGs nearly disappearing this generation is an entirely predictable event, in hindsight, especially in the west. The JRPG has always been a niche genre, it was just a big enough niche no one ever took notice. That is, until games went mainstream. Then you'd have that awkward talk with your friends who just bought Black about Final Fantasy XII and DOS ABS the next day in school.

Argument: JRPG's didn't get less popular at all. The medium itself grew by the millions and the JRPG failed at attracting new fans.

Agree? Disagree? I'm wrong entirely? Let's talk!

EDIT: And yes, I know of FFVII and how little of a niche title it is. Exception to the rule? Most definitely. It's weird how many people say that was their first JRPG. I'm blaming magazine hype, well done commercials (if it had any), and random purchases and universal praise for that one.

I agree with you mate there is japanese stuff out at the moment but most of them are not Rpg's. I dont really count the most recent final fantasy's as rpg's (I know they technically are but not in the sense something like dragon age is).
You are also very right about the ps2-current gen consoles rpg ratio. I can name loads of wonderful ps2 jrpg's but very few on the current consoles, and the ones I can are not as good as most of the ps2 stuff.
Although I own an xbox, and xbox dosent get half the amount of Japanese stuff the ps3 does. But I think your argument is valid and I am disappointed in those who are rudley dismissing it.

 

[Burst6]

dark/demon soul would probably be an action game along the lines of devil may cry or god of war than rpg. it is a game that focuses on reflexes rather than thinking. does it have rpg elements? sure, but nearly every game has RPG elements in it.

although, it is labeled as an action rpg, so there goes that argument out of the window. still wierd that game is labeled a rpg when its mechanics are nearly the same as devil may cry, an action game. in fact DMC is more like a rpg than demon soul.

Actually dark souls has a lot of RPG elements.

Yeah the combat is actiony but there are tons of stats (about 9 i think). each stat has a lot to do with damage of your weapons and every weapon has a stat requirement. You also have a weight and inventory system. You can upgrade your weapons from +1 to +15 or along many of the weapons branching upgrade paths. There's a stat for large heavy weapons a stat for small light weapons a stat for HP, stamina, the amount of spells you can hold, there's a stat for your normal magicky sorceries, and there's a stat for your priestly miracles.

In fact the only thing seperating dark souls from a pure RPG is involved combat.

 

[Condiments]

An earlier poster had the right answer. The cost of production for videogames has exceeded the ability for many niche audiences to sustain certain genre's development. This applies not only to JRPGs(I'd argue RPGs in general), but adventure games, platformers, and an assortment of other more niche genres. There ARE JRPGs being made still, but not on the scale or quality we've come to expect over the years.

I'm just waiting for Atlus to release their latest Shin Megami Tensei game. That will keep my JRPG tendencies satisfied for some time to come.

 

[HardkorSB]

So, I got into a discussion the other day and would love some input on it. Maybe even some fact checking. So, let's sum this up as quickly as possible!:

JRPGs nearly disappearing this generation is an entirely predictable event, in hindsight, especially in the west. The JRPG has always been a niche genre, it was just a big enough niche no one ever took notice. That is, until games went mainstream. Then you'd have that awkward talk with your friends who just bought Black about Final Fantasy XII and DOS ABS the next day in school.

Argument: JRPG's didn't get less popular at all. The medium itself grew by the millions and the JRPG failed at attracting new fans.

Agree? Disagree? I'm wrong entirely? Let's talk!

EDIT: And yes, I know of FFVII and how little of a niche title it is. Exception to the rule? Most definitely. It's weird how many people say that was their first JRPG. I'm blaming magazine hype, well done commercials (if it had any), and random purchases and universal praise for that one.

Look at this chart of Japan's top selling games in 2011:

http://www.vgchartz.com/yearly/2011/Japan/

Do you see how many JRPG's are there? Just because most of them don't get published outside of Japan doesn't mean there are any less of them.

 

[Scow2]

>Dark Souls

LOL You think Dark Souls is a JRPG... Good one. Dark Souls is a game made by Japanese developers yes, but filled with nothing but Western themes and elements from Western games. The devs have been quoted saying it's more of an action game, any way.

I'd make the argument that JRPGs aren't actually a distinct genre from WRPGs. They were both brought about from the same roots (DnD and early games based on it), both incorporate very similar gameplay styles, both are rooted in the concept of roleplaying. Really, there is little that actually separates them beyond perception.

Aye, I can attest to this.

If Dark Souls is a Western RPG, then Baldur's Gate(1&2), Dragon Age(1&2 Again), Planescape: Torment, Knights of the Old Republic(1&2), and Mass Effect (1,2,&3) are all JRPGs.

dark/demon soul would probably be an action game along the lines of devil may cry or god of war than rpg. it is a game that focuses on reflexes rather than thinking. does it have rpg elements? sure, but nearly every game has RPG elements in it.

although, it is labeled as an action rpg, so there goes that argument out of the window. still wierd that game is labeled a rpg when its mechanics are nearly the same as devil may cry, an action game. in fact DMC is more like a rpg than demon soul.

Actually, Dark/Demon Souls is heavily focused on Thinking. You just need the reflexes as well.

 

[Ryotknife]

dark/demon soul would probably be an action game along the lines of devil may cry or god of war than rpg. it is a game that focuses on reflexes rather than thinking. does it have rpg elements? sure, but nearly every game has RPG elements in it.

although, it is labeled as an action rpg, so there goes that argument out of the window. still wierd that game is labeled a rpg when its mechanics are nearly the same as devil may cry, an action game. in fact DMC is more like a rpg than demon soul.

Actually dark souls has a lot of RPG elements.

Yeah the combat is actiony but there are tons of stats (about 9 i think). each stat has a lot to do with damage of your weapons and every weapon has a stat requirement. You also have a weight and inventory system. You can upgrade your weapons from +1 to +15 or along many of the weapons branching upgrade paths. There's a stat for large heavy weapons a stat for small light weapons a stat for HP, stamina, the amount of spells you can hold, there's a stat for your normal magicky sorceries, and there's a stat for your priestly miracles.

In fact the only thing seperating dark souls from a pure RPG is involved combat.

or story
or characters
or ability to play as an individual in a world (a la skyrim or fallout).

havent played dark souls, so maybe its different. but in demon souls i had a block ability, strong attack, weak attack, and parry. after 10 hours of playing i still had those same abilities and no new ones.

 

[TaintedSaint]

Dark souls is a jrpg only because it was made in japan. The term JRpg and Wrpg is more of a genre classification then about the location of where it was made. So in my opinion even though it was made in japan it is still a westen style rpg.
And the reason why jrpgs are not as popular anymore because there is little choice in jrpgs. Some people like some role playing in their RPGs not an interactive movie with a bunch of stats *Cough Final Fantasy *cough

 

[OrpheusTelos]

. Some people like some role playing in their RPGs

Lol. Role playing in a video game. Good one.

 

[Burst6]

or story
or characters
or ability to play as an individual in a world (a la skyrim or fallout).

havent played dark souls, so maybe its different. but in demon souls i had a block ability, strong attack, weak attack, and parry. after 10 hours of playing i still had those same abilities and no new ones.

The story is there, it's just less obvious. It's minimalistic but it's still pretty interesting. It's one of those theorycrafting types.

The characters are pretty much the same. They don't really say much about themselves outright, and everything you find out about them usually comes from item descriptions and hidden dialogue from other characters, but you'll get the basic idea of most of them.

and i don't get the third one. what do you mean play as an individual in a world? I'm pretty sure you're an individual in dark souls playing in a world.


Oh and in skyrim after 10 hours of playing i still have the normal attacks and 4 directional power attacks. Yeah i get new magic but so does dark souls.

If i start the game with a longsword and i want a strength build eventually I'll be using a giant cleaver that attacks differently. Oh and you get more attacks in dark souls than in demon souls

strong attack, weak attack, special attack (A front kick for most weapons, a backflip slash for scimitars, and a backwards dodging attack for rapiers) and jump attack.

And every weapons in dark souls has a unique strong attack.

 

[Ryotknife]

or story
or characters
or ability to play as an individual in a world (a la skyrim or fallout).

havent played dark souls, so maybe its different. but in demon souls i had a block ability, strong attack, weak attack, and parry. after 10 hours of playing i still had those same abilities and no new ones.

The story is there, it's just less obvious. It's minimalistic but it's still pretty interesting. It's one of those theorycrafting types.

The characters are pretty much the same. They don't really say much about themselves outright, and everything you find out about them usually comes from item descriptions and hidden dialogue from other characters, but you'll get the basic idea of most of them.

and i don't get the third one. what do you mean play as an individual in a world? I'm pretty sure you're an individual in dark souls playing in a world.


Oh and in skyrim after 10 hours of playing i still have the normal attacks and 4 directional power attacks. Yeah i get new magic but so does dark souls.

If i start the game with a longsword and i want a strength build eventually I'll be using a giant cleaver that attacks differently. Oh and you get more attacks in dark souls than in demon souls

strong attack, weak attack, special attack (A front kick for most weapons, a backflip slash for scimitars, and a backwards dodging attack for rapiers) and jump attack.

And every weapons in dark souls has a unique strong attack.

what i meant by the third comment was that in skyrim or fallout, you are dumped into an expansive world and can do whatever you want. you can mess around, do the main storyline, explore, etc. you can actually role play. cant do that at all in dark souls.

dark souls is nowhere close to a rpg. platformers have closer to rpgs than demon souls. devil may cry and god of war is closer to a rpg. dark souls is the very defintion of an action game. a game that relies on reaction time, has zero story or character story, and whose combat remains the exact same from the moment you start till the end. it is a very challenging game, however in my opinion it is also a very boring game, especially since 90+% of the combat that i did revolved around block and attack.

and there is nothing wrong with that. just not my cup of tea.

if dark souls is a rpg, then every game is a rpg.

oh, and in skyrim im constantly switching between 2x swords for regular melee, sword and shield, archery, 2x daggers for sneak assassinations, and spells. the combat in vastly more varied than dark/demon souls.

 

[Burst6]

what i meant by the third comment was that in skyrim or fallout, you are dumped into an expansive world and can do whatever you want. you can mess around, do the main storyline, explore, etc. you can actually role play. cant do that at all in dark souls.

dark souls is nowhere close to a rpg. platformers have closer to rpgs than demon souls. devil may cry and god of war is closer to a rpg. dark souls is the very defintion of an action game. a game that relies on reaction time, has zero story or character story, and whose combat remains the exact same from the moment you start till the end. it is a very challenging game, however in my opinion it is also a very boring game, especially since 90+% of the combat that i did revolved around block and attack.

and there is nothing wrong with that. just not my cup of tea.

if dark souls is a rpg, then every game is a rpg.

oh, and in skyrim im constantly switching between 2x swords for regular melee, sword and shield, archery, 2x daggers for sneak assassinations, and spells. the combat in vastly more varied than dark/demon souls.

You're dumped in an expansive world in dark souls (It's all open world). It's not as expansive as skyrim but its not linear either. You create your character by yourself and you actively influence the lives of other characters in the game by your choice. Yeah it's not as expansive as skyrim but it's there and just because it's smaller doesn't mean its nonexistent.

And i repeat, dark souls has a story. A pretty interesting one as well. Its just out of the way. I like the story in dark souls a lot more than skyrim too. To me it felt like neither dark souls or skyrim tried very hard with the story, instead focusing on combat and exploration respectively, but for the effort dark souls pulled it off better. Maybe it's because the story just has an air of mystery and the atmosphere helps it, and maybe the fact that i had to look for it sweetened it for me, but i definitely enjoyed the dark souls story more.


And the combat in skyrim remains the same from start to finish too. Any perks you get can be matched by the stat growth in dark souls in terms of RPGness. If you pick 2-handed weapons in skyrim in the end you're doing pretty much the same thing you started with.

And from that last paragraph I'm guessing you haven't played too much of the souls series.
skyrim weapons.
1-handed, 2-handed, dual wielding, shields, bows, and the 6 spell casting schools.
dark souls weapons.
18 categories of melee/ranged weapons(each can be held in 1 or two hands), 4 categories of shields(that can be used as weapons too), and 3 categories of spell casting weapons (for each of the 3 spell schools)

Personally i keep a primary weapon, an off hand (a shield normally, a parrying dagger if I'm feeling brave), a secondary weapon (a dagger/rapier for backstabs, a bow/greatbow/crossbow for range, spellcasting tool for magic), and a secondary off hand(usually a spellcasting tool for enchanting weapons).

personally i can't believe you actually played the souls series. I could accept a lot of criticisms against dark souls (Like the ending isn't fleshed out enough, sometimes its just way too unfair, PVP is really annoying if you try to start playing it exclusively, etc..), and i know that video game genres are vague and very poorly defined in general, but saying that devil may cry is more of an RPG than dark souls is just wrong.

 

[dimensional]

I was going to contribute but I get the feeling doing so would be rather pointless when people cant even agree on what defines a JRPG or WRPG in the first place.

Maybe we should define what an RPG is first in relation to videogames no actually dont bother I dont want to have that discussion again.

So I suppose like these variables whether you think they are disappearing is all down to perception.

 

[GoaThief]

I own 18 360 games, all of them are JRPGs.

OK

Divinity II

Is a European (Belgian) wRPG.