Yeah sure, I just don't know any female gamers irl (although I know plenty over the net), trying to use facebook to make some more friends with similar interests in my area though.Calibanbutcher said:
Ladies, how about you?
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Why would an accurate representation of upper body strength matter in a videogame? The suspension of disbelief isn't a new thing, and I doubt many gamers are going to excitedly exclaim that their character driving a sword through someone's chest is unrealistic because they're female.
There are also still too few games with independent female leads. WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT'S A GENERALISATION GRAH
There are also still too few games with independent female leads. WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT'S A GENERALISATION GRAH
I'm playing Dishonoured quite happily atm and despite his muscular hands it's much easier to live vicariously through Corvo than it is through Geralt. The Witcher seems to be extremely third person ie the player is discouraged to think of themselves as the main character and I think that's what it put some lasses off.
jehk said:
Yes, it's not the same thing: one is the decision of a storyteller, the other is natural. But that still doesn't mean it's sexist per se. Just... no. If that's your standard for sexism, then any story that includes some kind of group that is exclusive to one gender is sexist to you. That would probably include... a lot of stories.
Aren't the witchers some kind of order? Would you also call a fantasy game with a men-only knight order is sexist? Because, you know, that's just what these order historically were?
CloudAtlas said:
I'd say it was a dodgy choice to decide to have a men only faction just on histories sake alone. I mean surely that's just perpetuating mistakes of the past.
If a writer tells me that he has magic and monsters in his fantasy and then adds sexism because 'That's what it was like in medieval times' I'm going to raise an eyebrow.
This is a good article on the subject
http://www.themarysue.com/sexism-in-historical-fantasy/
and if you must include sexism this is a good article on doing it right.
http://www.themarysue.com/but-alas-she-is-a-woman-how-dishonored-uses-gender-roles-to-tell-a-story/
Excerpt from the second
'There are many other examples, but those were the two that made me realize that Dishonored is fully aware of how the women within it are treated. It knows how unfair that treatment is. It knows how unhappy these women are. When I played this game, I did not get the sense that gender discrimination was included simply because it?s habitual or historically accurate (more on that in a moment). Dishonored is, first and foremost, a story about corruption. Everywhere you turn, you see how broken Dunwall is.
For me it doesn't really matter. If I can't play as a female character in a game, that's cool! Now if I have a choice, single or multiplayer, I usually pick female unless I like a male character better. In say, Gears of War, I'll usually play as Baird in multiplayer, and Anya or Sam if I truly want to.
As a male, I find the sex and/or gender of the protagonist(s) irrelevant. Mirror's Edge, one of my favorite games of all time, does not feature a playable male protagonist. See also, Portal.
I remember my little brother had finally convinced me to play brink and being pissed that there was so many options to change you outfit but not your gender. I guess if a game has interesting characters and plot I don't really care but if it has a playable girl character I'll definitely be more inclined to buy it, it just kinda peeves me off whenever you have so many options to change you character but you still can't play as a girl.
And what happens when this fantasy universe isn't meant to be this jolly old place where everyone is born into equal opportunity?
If you have read Game of Thrones / A Song of Ice and Fire, do you honestly think characters like Cersei would be the same if they didn't have to continually fight against their societies' own forms of sexism?
Great job of missing the point entirely. The point I'm making here is that having one group be able to do something that another group can't isn't sexist on its' face because real life has all kinds of examples, one of them being child birth. It doesn't matter that the distinction of who gives birth to children is one that occurs in reality, someone writing a book is more than free to make up something to remove this difference. Your argument that Witchers are fantasy is worthless. Not only that it basically removes the possibility of stories where society is structured in different ways because of one group or another has an ability that another group does not have. Assuming of course that one further concludes that sexism or being sexist is something that should not exist.jehk said:
You can't do stories where women come to dominate combat positions because they can use some technology or other ability that men cannot, you can't have stories where society becomes even more segmented than our own because various groups have differing abilities.
Read my whole postAPersonHere said:
There is a way to do things right as I pointed out.
Also a society where men and women are equal does not have to be 'jolly' Look at Skyrim it's hardly jolly is it and yet men and woman are pretty much equal in that game.
Having a medieval themed game should not automatically mean sexism and if it does it shouldn't condone it.
I think they are suggesting that just because medieval times had sexism a fantasy world with a medieval look to it doesn't have to.Tenmar said:
I mean if it has dragons and magic why the hell is sexism the realism you need.
Fantasy is fantasy there aren't really any constraints on it. I disagree that this means sexism isn't allowed but when an author makes a choice to make women oppressed and then condone it I don't think I would be very impressed personally.
There are ways to do it right, like in dishonoured.
What does that fact have to do with your argument logically meaning that statements about child birth being specific to one gender as opposed to another are sexist in nature in the context of fiction? You've already stated that if women cannot be Witchers it is sexist. Whether the stories condone sexism or not is totally irrelevant because the source material would still be sexist according to you. Stop trying to have it both ways. You've said in one breath that a setting where a woman cannot do what a man can is sexist, you cannot then turn around and say well that is only true if the setting condones the situation.jehk said:
I can see what you mean. Listening to the women in the Golden Cat was disturbing. I do wonder about something like The Witcher, given the way that society is set up are Geralt's sexual escapades sexist since Witcher's like him do present women with the opportunity to have and enjoy sex without having to deal with things like child birth or disease? Are the escapades the problem or is it something else about Geralt?Moonlight Butterfly said:
I would absolutely never not play a game simply because the main character is a female. I judge games on their ability to deliver a story and immerse me, not what sex I play as.
If I told my friends that I didn't play Tomb Raider because Lara is a woman, I would be ashamed.
The same goes for books and all other forms of media. Hell, as fun as it is to play as yourself in an RPG, it's often just as fun to play as what you aren't. Isn't that exactly what games and movies and books and such are for?
If I told my friends that I didn't play Tomb Raider because Lara is a woman, I would be ashamed.
The same goes for books and all other forms of media. Hell, as fun as it is to play as yourself in an RPG, it's often just as fun to play as what you aren't. Isn't that exactly what games and movies and books and such are for?
How am I imposing anything on artists?Tenmar said:
They're free to create any sexist material they want. Likewise, I'm free to call it sexist. That doesn't necessary make the artist sexist.Tenmar said:
Let me say it again. I don't think sexism shouldn't exist in fiction. Is the double negative confusing you? I don't see any disagreement.