LBP being attacked

[cleverlymadeup]

Are you saying that if my Shadow Moses Island, a fucking tribute to the Metal Gear Franchise, gets deleted you will feel no sympathy towards my contribution and effort into making the damn thing!?!? (I spent 2 hours trying to make it look like it snows!)

How DARE you! Hell, I'll show you what I have done right now![/*****]

actually not really, it sux yes but you didn't have to publish it in the first place

look at it this way

i spend hours thinking of a creative way to steal your ps3 and i finally do, you spent good money on your ps3 and take it back, i now complain how unfair it is that you took your ps3 back from me

should i be sympathized with for doing something illegal? no and it's the same thing as spending hours making a level knowing full well that they told you "don't steal copyrights". the only difference is what's being stolen

I perfectly understand the copyright view on it, but alot of the levels that are hits are based off of some copyrighted material (SAW, Silent Hill, MGS, Mario, Sonic, Final Fantasy (music also) the list goes on) and it would definately be a shame if those really good levels be deleted because of some copyright dispute.

i'm guessing a lot of the levels will be deleted then.

honestly they should spend time making SIMILAR levels that have a basic feel to it rather than 100% copy that has been shown time and time again to be taken down for copyright infringement and then act all shocked by it

 

[axia777]

Am I the only one who expected this to happen all along?

No, you were not. I expected it as well.

So people will have to come up with their own original content? Oh shit, heaven forbid the thought.

 

[The_Deleted]

Would a level design not work like Music copyright whereby as long as it's a direct copy, eg: change on note in the scale / riff, that the composer can get away with it?

 

[TsunamiWombat]

The dream takes a SECOND dent...

 

[Codeman90]

So wait a minute. Making a flash movie (something you might see on newgrounds etc.) with popular characters is legal but making a level with them in LBP isn't?

This absoloutley ridiculous. Sounds like the company that developed this game are overly paranoid fools who are giving gamers the illusion of freedom.

 

[Altorin]

there was one game that was deleted just because of its name

"Failure To Launch"

it had NOTHING to do with the crappy movie Failure to Launch, but it was deleted anyway.

 

[Kermi]

So wait a minute. Making a flash movie (something you might see on newgrounds etc.) with popular characters is legal but making a level with them in LBP isn't?

Uh, videos get pulled from Newgrounds by request because of their copyrighted content all the time. It's up to the owner of the IP to pursue it - Sony is moderating the LBP levels of their own accord just to keep out of trouble - something the administrators of Newgrounds could do as well, if they chose to.

Chances are in most cases the mimicked content wouldn't draw attention, but Sony aren't going to take any chances by openly permitting it, either.

 

[Jumplion]

In Soviet Big Planet, Sony deletes your hard work.

Lol-er-skates?

 

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

Would it not be possible to say that LBP versions of other game levels are a parody [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/parody], and thus be protected under something like the Fair Use Doctrine [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use] in the US?

I'm not a legal buff, and I certainly don't claim expertise on all parody laws out there, just a thought though.

Edit: Ninja'd by saccharin. That's what I get for getting links.

YOU WIN THIS ROUND!

Didn't Themis Media (I think the guys who own escapist) lay down the legal banhammer on that guy who made a parody of ZP and used some images of ZP vids. to make that "informative" video about Gamestop? I believe it was called "Zero Originality".

 

[ward.]

Where exactly are they deleted from?

 

[Amnestic]

Would it not be possible to say that LBP versions of other game levels are a parody [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/parody], and thus be protected under something like the Fair Use Doctrine [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use] in the US?

I'm not a legal buff, and I certainly don't claim expertise on all parody laws out there, just a thought though.

Edit: Ninja'd by saccharin. That's what I get for getting links.

YOU WIN THIS ROUND!

Didn't Themis Media (I think the guys who own escapist) lay down the legal banhammer on that guy who made a parody of ZP and used some images of ZP vids. to make that "informative" video about Gamestop? I believe it was called "Zero Originality".

And as a parody work the Zero Originality guy might have been able to challenge it legally. Again, I'm not a lawyer but it's quite possible. Legal fees however, from what I've been told, are not cheap these days. Probably easier to just get the stuff removed and cut his losses.

 

[Codeman90]

So wait a minute. Making a flash movie (something you might see on newgrounds etc.) with popular characters is legal but making a level with them in LBP isn't?

Uh, videos get pulled from Newgrounds by request because of their copyrighted content all the time. It's up to the owner of the IP to pursue it - Sony is moderating the LBP levels of their own accord just to keep out of trouble - something the administrators of Newgrounds could do as well, if they chose to.

Chances are in most cases the mimicked content wouldn't draw attention, but Sony aren't going to take any chances by openly permitting it, either.

Huh. Did not know that. Well anyway I still think its ridiculous to promise the freedom to make whatever you want and then add the "aslongasweagreewithitandyoufollowtherules" clause

 

[qbert4ever]

Since I don't have a PS3 or this game, you'll have to excuse me if my post is retarded.

I was just wondering, if you make a level for yourself, and maybe some friends, that happens to be a recreation of, say, the first level from Super Mario Bros. Why is this a problem? You're not stealing the game, you're not making giant letters saying "Mario sucks", and you're not keeping people from buying the game. In fact, I could argue that my tribute is showing bits of this game I love so much I chose to spend hours making it to people who may have never even heard of it, and it might even make them want to buy the real game.

So I ask again, if I'm not stealing anything, and I'm not saying anything bad about the original product, and I'm in fact saying how awesome this original product is that I spent X number of hours making the damn thing, why is this bad?

 

[Amnestic]

Since I don't have a PS3 or this game, you'll have to excuse me if my post is retarded.

I was just wondering, if you make a level for yourself, and maybe some friends, that happens to be a recreation of, say, the first level from Super Mario Bros. Why is this a problem? You're not stealing the game, you're not making giant letters saying "Mario sucks", and you're not keeping people from buying the game. In fact, I could argue that my tribute is showing bits of this game I love so much I chose to spend hours making it to people who may have never even heard of it, and it might even make them want to buy the real game.

So I ask again, if I'm not stealing anything, and I'm not saying anything bad about the original product, and I'm in fact saying how awesome this original product is that I spent X number of hours making the damn thing, why is this bad?

Copyright Infringement/IP theft would basically sum up why. I'm still backing the idea of Parody/free use laws though.

 

[qbert4ever]

post

Copyright Infringement/IP theft would basically sum up why. I'm still backing the idea of Parody/free use laws though.

Since I have no idea, why is it that it's legel to put up reviews, photos, and Youtube vids of a game, but as soon as you make a tribute level in another game, even if it's just for you and a few other people if they want it, the dev's start throwing a *****-fit? Are there really people that sit in fifty-story buildings that say to themselves "this kid made a mario level that is so much better then the actual game we need to delete it lest people decide to forsake our product"? What do they gain from this other then bad press?

It's a very fine line between protecting your product and pissing off your customers so much as to not buy from you anymore, and LBP seems to be shifting to the wrong side. If anything, I would think that studios wouldn't want to follow EA's example.

 

[bue519]

Wow first it gets delayed because of few words in a song, and now this ..... THERE IS NO GOD

 

[guyy]

Well this is stupid. When are companies going to figure out that having players make mods and maps based on their products is basically free advertising?

Not to mention the fact that "moderating," the way they use it, is a perfect example of Newspeak. "If a level is found to be in violation of the EULA it will be moderated," that is, it will be deleted permanently. Since when does "moderate" mean "destroy"?

 

[Wargamer]

Right, as soon as I get home I'm making a backup copy of Unbeatable Sackzuke (a parody on Unbeatable Banzuke, even though Sackzuke Brian is a really bad imitation, and the level is more like a Ninja Warrior assault course...).

Part of me thinks that Sony, and the "Internet Laws" in general, need a slap and an introduction to reality. LittleBigPlanet is essentially a Modding tool that pretends to be a game. That's not a criticism. However, since it's all about player made content, it is bound to have Hangar Syndrome. For those who don't know, since DOOM came out it has been a common tradition for Modders to recreate Hangar (level 1 of Doom 1) for other FPS titles as a tribute to the game.

LittleBigPlanet has the same thing all over it. Look at the levels I, and others, have created: Unbeatable Sackzuke, Sackman Ninja Warrior, Sackman Gladiators, Sackman Wipeout - we aren't trying to steal copyright, we're making a tribute to something we enjoy.

So tell me, how does creating "Metal Sack Solid: Sacks of the Patriots" cut into Hideo Kojima's profits? It doesn't. LBP is a very different game. If anything, it'll encourage people to go out and find the real deal; just playing the Single Player of LBP reminded me how much I loved the Sonic and Mario games of my childhood.

That's what LBP tributes are all about - taking an idea, making it cute and cuddly, and making everyone think "wow, I'd forgotten how much I liked what this level is making tribute to."

The law in this area needs to wake up and smell the Modding tools. The law recognises that fan-art is not illegal so long as you don't sell it for profit (although I think you can if you sell the "original" drawing...), and fan-fiction is not illegal so long as you don't publish it for profit. However, in both instances, you're free to distribute your work for free (there's god knows how many sites dedicated to this). For some reason, however, it isn't 'art' when you use a modding tool.

I can't help but wonder; did City of Heroes / Villains ban everyone who even REMOTELY resembed a Marvel or DC character? How many Judge Dredds and Jack Sparrows got their accounts black-marked and taken away from them?

 

[Dramatic Flare]

Hmm....
You know, people could always make levels themed on other things that are beyond copyright, like, I dunno, Dracula? LOTR (Don't start me on this argument again) ?
There's plenty of material besides video games that is perfectly legal to rip off of.
In the meantime, back to fiddling around at my friend's house with something fun.

 

[Wargamer]

This isn't about "ripping off", Ninjablu.

Anyway, how is using LoTR any better than using Mario, or Metal Gear Solid? LoTR is still the intellectual property of the Tolkien family, and is still used, or has been used in recent years, for films, games and various other media. LoTR is alive, kicking, and Closed Source. How is it any different?

My answer to that, for those who care, is that it's been ripped off so many times that ripping off LoTR is a genre in itself. Warhammer rips off LoTR, and expands it into something that, most of the time, passes as unique. Warcraft is a knock-off of Warhammer, and thus inherits much of the LoTR styling. Hell, most fantasy is stealing from LoTR is some way or another; LoTR is so iconic it is no longer part of the genre, it IS the genre, and thus it leads to tricky copyright situations. Honestly, how long do you think a case would stand up in court if the LoTR right-holders sued Games Workshop because they depict Elves as "ancient, ageless creatures from a former Age, who are fair of face, graceful in movement and at one with nature." Yeah, that describes at least one race from virtually every Fantasy setting since LoTR was published (note, since). Case gets thrown out. Next up; Cthulu vs Tentacle Hentai Online's schoolgirl-raping monster...

I think this all boils down to the simple idea that, despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary, lawmakers don't think games exist. LoTR is "cultural", so you can rip it off with impunity. The collective works of Shakespeare are the foundation of our written language, and thus are fair game. What lawyers and judges have not accepted is that OUR culture is Super Mario, Metroid and Master Chief. 'All Your Base' is no-longer the property of whoever translated Zero Wing. We live in a digital age, and that means that we will take our memes and express them in new ways. Authors gave tribute to Tolkien by turning his fantasy into the template for all Fantasy. Film-makers and Animators gave tribute to Star Wars by producing the likes of Space Balls or Blue Harvest. The law needs to understand that videogames, and the internet in general, is the next medium for our and future generations to express ourselves. We're living in a Digital age, with a Victorian legal system.