League of Legends World Championship 2015
- Thread starter Fat Hippo
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It's mostly like Veigar was overshadowed until the last few patches. His biggest problems weren't so much his low mobility(though it was a factor of why he wasn't picked much except into assassins as a pocket pick), so much as his E getting nerfed hard after he became a somewhat dominant pocket pick support last year and they changed it from an instant appearance to delayed and his W no longer being reliable because of it still having a cast time and the E delay, meaning that you had to W-E(aoe meteor - cage) instead of E-W, despite it being the MOST important skill to be able to kill someone. Then they fixed up his E delay a bit, but he was still forgotten about because of Ahri being one of the safest mids(like seriously, I hate her so much I will always ban her, she turns mid into an ungankable lane, and you can't always depend on your laner), Viktor being able to clear a wave with just one upgrade, Azir's incredible range, etc.Fat_Hippo said:
Then his W had the cast time taken off of it, the AP items were revamped with buy routes being changed a bit and made cheaper, and his double Q buff turned from that ability that let you bully laners(or at least trade with) that also gave you a hundred extra ap, give or take, to his actual bread and butter spell that now gives anywhere between 250 and 800 ap(dependent on if you're actually good with him or not) each game. Basically he was buffed to a viable point, and then items that he has a good synergy with were made easier to obtain. So in a way, he was just overbuffed(though he still suffers from now being a farm focused laner and alot of picks can out-roam him because they can clear waves quickly while he ramps up, but at least he still has his cage that lets him counter roam if they take too long)
Either have stories? Really?Skin said:
I think you might have that in reverse. Dota 2's major patches almost always lead to dramatic change ups in the meta, often stirring up entire team dynamics. League's meta tends to stay pretty static, only ever really taking a big hit when a new, OP hero is added. (though it tends to settled down pretty quickly)
I take it you've never tried spectating a tourney match while listening to the TI Noob stream. They often explain at length what things are and what heroes do during any given event or shake up in a match.Fat_Hippo said:
The Frankfurt Major is coming up fairly soon, Valve's 2nd in their new four-official-tourneys-a-year schedule, and it should give you the chance to listen to the Noob stream. I highly recommend it as it's both humorous and informative.
Dat $6,000,000 dunk....Paragon Fury said:
That was a pretty fun Day 3 for the tournament...got to see an Anivia mid pick, so here's hoping we get to see more seldom-played champs. I'm still holding out for my main man, Karthus. :3
That or I'd like to see a Katarina or Akali just for the lolz.
Or for even bigger lolz: MIDDLESTICKS!
A man can dream, can he not? A man can dream...
That or I'd like to see a Katarina or Akali just for the lolz.
Or for even bigger lolz: MIDDLESTICKS!
A man can dream, can he not? A man can dream...
Everything I know about DotA 2, I learned from watching this helpful and informative video:Vigormortis said:
Well more or less we are trying to say the same thing. League has way more patches but it remains similar (which from my guess was because it was minor changes and players ability to adapt) whereas Dota has the ocassional huge patch where it turns into a different game. This makes League superior in my opinion, not only from a competitive aspect, but from a casual aspect, having to relearn fundamental things is a massive annoyance and I just don't have that patience, especially when I know they are going to change it again 6 mths down the road.Vigormortis said:
And yes, sports do have storylines
@Redryhno: Thanks for the explanation, I hadn't really paid attention to the changes being made to Veigar since I never played him. I wonder if we will see more of him this Worlds.
I actually do more spectating than playing these days anyway, so the champions who aren't in the meta tend to fall out of my field of view.
EDIT: So I just watched...
Now I can't judge this definitively, since there are many games I haven't watched, but I'm starting to think Darius might be overrated. He doesn't necessarily crush his lane, especially in a lane swap scenario, and he's not as useful in late-game teamfights as other toplane champions. Maybe I'm getting the wrong impression, and I just haven't seen him played to his full potential yet though. Also, we don't get to see the stats for total damage dealt by specific champions, so it's hard to know how effective they actually were.
I actually do more spectating than playing these days anyway, so the champions who aren't in the meta tend to fall out of my field of view.
Hmm, maybe I should give that a shot. If it doesn't overlap with World anyway, I can only watch so much per day before it burns me out.Vigormortis said:
EDIT: So I just watched...
BLEEERRRGHHH What a lousy throw from Fnatic. They lost to a team that got demolished by Cloud9, that just shouldn't happen. I mean, it's nice to see that Fnatic didn't lose because they really got outplayed by AHQ, but they messed those late-game teamfights up so hard it was almost painful to watch. I assume they will take down Cloud9 later today however.
Now I can't judge this definitively, since there are many games I haven't watched, but I'm starting to think Darius might be overrated. He doesn't necessarily crush his lane, especially in a lane swap scenario, and he's not as useful in late-game teamfights as other toplane champions. Maybe I'm getting the wrong impression, and I just haven't seen him played to his full potential yet though. Also, we don't get to see the stats for total damage dealt by specific champions, so it's hard to know how effective they actually were.
I expected Cloud 9 to do well after their run through the gauntlet, they always do well when it matters, and Hai is still one of the greatest strategic players on Earth
I was also predicting LGD to win the tournament, but they seem to be crashing and burning. Other than that, it's a great tournament so far, definitely the best since Season 2.
OH SNAP, LGD just drafted Brand support and Nunu Jungle vs TSM, I've never seen as many crazy non-meta picks in a tournament. This is superb.
EDIT: Well, that game certainly didn't disappoint. Oodles of fun, I heartily recommend it.
EDIT: Well, that game certainly didn't disappoint. Oodles of fun, I heartily recommend it.
Yeah, I'm definitely getting what I wished for with lots of non-meta picks. Anivia mid is my favorite thus far.Fat_Hippo said:
Wasn't LGD supposed to be #1 in China? Starting out 0-3 really makes one rethink that. Seriously, they specifically picked a kite-heavy team to counter the Mord and yet they refused to kite. And whadda you know? If you just walk right up into a fight with TWO juggernauts you're going to get your face stomped in.
One thing's for sure: I highly doubt anyone's getting Championship Riven.
The game I'm looking forward to most today is C9 vs FNatic. C9 has shown up both times now, showing that they're not a complete joke and waste of a world's slot by displaying how they've improved quite a bit since even their Gauntlet run. After that last game, FNatic is showing some weakness, I'm interested to see if C9 can capitalize on that.
One thing's for sure: I highly doubt anyone's getting Championship Riven.
The game I'm looking forward to most today is C9 vs FNatic. C9 has shown up both times now, showing that they're not a complete joke and waste of a world's slot by displaying how they've improved quite a bit since even their Gauntlet run. After that last game, FNatic is showing some weakness, I'm interested to see if C9 can capitalize on that.
RJ 17 said:Wasn't LGD supposed to be #1 in China? Starting out 0-3 really makes one rethink that. Seriously, they specifically picked a kite-heavy team to counter the Mord and yet they refused to kite. And whadda you know? If you just walk right up into a fight with TWO juggernauts you're going to get your face stomped in.
One thing's for sure: I highly doubt anyone's getting Championship Riven.
The game I'm looking forward to most today is C9 vs FNatic. C9 has shown up both times now, showing that they're not a complete joke and waste of a world's slot by displaying how they've improved quite a bit since even their Gauntlet run. After that last game, FNatic is showing some weakness, I'm interested to see if C9 can capitalize on that.
Yeah, LGD's utter failure is the biggest upset so far. I didn't watch much LPL so I can't judge it very well myself, but this is just so weird. People were treating them as a favorite to reach the finals, and now this? Maybe they just can't handle the pressure, not everyone has xPeke levels of experience.
I'm also anticipating the C9 vs Fnatic match-up, though since I'm rooting for Fnatic it makes me a bit nervous. I really think they are the superior team, but their blunders vs AHQ show that they can make fatal mistakes. The question is whether C9 will be able to capitalize on these mistakes in the actually fairly impressive manner that AHQ did when they beat Fnatic.
I'm also anticipating the C9 vs Fnatic match-up, though since I'm rooting for Fnatic it makes me a bit nervous. I really think they are the superior team, but their blunders vs AHQ show that they can make fatal mistakes. The question is whether C9 will be able to capitalize on these mistakes in the actually fairly impressive manner that AHQ did when they beat Fnatic.
I'm behind in the games as I've come to prefer watching them on a youtube channel rather than watching them live (the channel I'm going to gets them up incredibly fast) since I can get better quality by watching a "replay" rather than watching it streaming.Fat_Hippo said:
It's funny...if C9 lost I would have been here saying "Why the fuck is everyone obsessed with first picking Darius?!" But as C9 pulls out the win with a massive Darius Penta, I'll shut my mouth on that note. God damn, C9 has - for three games in a row now - slapped all the doubters right in their mouths and firmly proved that them making it to worlds was not some sort of fluke. I'll admit that after what I saw of them during the summer I thought they were a joke of a team that had a tendency to choke. But after that first game I could tell that they had really improved. Don't know what they did to suddenly get this good, but I think it's officially safe to say that they're actually a strong contender in this tournament.
Gotta admit, I thought FNatic had it in the bag just by the draft with their team built around setting up the Yasuo combo...a combo which C9 took to the face a number of times throughout that game. But all that matters is whose Nexus blows up, and at the end of the day C9 pulls it out with the first Penta of the tournament.
Gotta admit, I thought FNatic had it in the bag just by the draft with their team built around setting up the Yasuo combo...a combo which C9 took to the face a number of times throughout that game. But all that matters is whose Nexus blows up, and at the end of the day C9 pulls it out with the first Penta of the tournament.
RJ 17 said:
Goddamnit. I didn't see why the Darius was such a big deal either, as I've expressed above, but those dunks can just be fucking insane. I see it now. And yeah, this is NOT the C9 we've been seeing in the NA LCS. Jesus Christ. I've still got some hopes that Fnatic makes it out of their group, and if not...just WHAT!?
I usually watch the replays on the "LoL LCS VODs KazaGamez" on Youtube, they're faster with the uploads than Riot is, lol.
Mmm, I'm not sure I agree.Skin said:
The big patches in Dota 2 not only keep the game (and its meta) fresh, they keep the professional players on their toes. They make the game just as much about tactics, strategy, planning, and adaptability as it is about pure skill. Going into any given tournament it's less 'oh look they're using the [****] tactic again' and more 'oh! I've never seen that before!'
And realistically, these big changes have little impact at the casual level. Most of the changes, while seemingly big on the meta, generally mean little for your average pub match. They rarely even effect ranked matches. You really only see massive changes to the meta having dramatic effects on games once you hit MMRs over at least 5K.
I mean, one of the biggest changes in the recent patch was the reduction of TP scrolls from 100 gold to 75. This could have a big effect at the pro level, but for your average casual match? Well...it's rare for people to even buy a damn TP scroll, let alone worry about how much one costs, so....
So yeah, for me the big switch-ups to the meta that Dota 2 sees with its big patches make its pro-scene more interesting to follow. That is not to say that LoL's scene is 'boring', by any stretch.
Speaking of which: Go Cloud9. They are tearing it up this tourney.
I guess, but only in regards to the trials of the players. LoL and Dota 2 have character bios, not really meaningful narratives.
Oh gods, I'm....I'm so sorry. You poor thing. Here, have an ice cream and try to put it all behind you.RJ 17 said:
I've fallen out of love with the competitive scene of Dota and the game in general. There seems to have been a massive attitude shift since maybe Dota 2 and especially for the last 2 years where people think having shifting meta's and massive changes make the game better and more interesting, whereas before, in WC3 Dota, patches were done with extreme care, meticulous changes done so that maybe one day that pipe dream of balance could be achieved (this is where the praise for Icefrog initially came from, his attention to detail and his care for the game. Nowadays, you can literally just do whatever and eventually a meta will form out of it. It is very obvious that Valve are calling the shots when it comes to balancing. They have already taken the Dota player market and now aim for the LoL market, so things like high kills, lots of ganking, comebacks are emphasized to the detrament of the game. Had I originally come from LoL, I could see how Dota could be a breath of fresh air, but having been with Dota, I have literally experienced the game turn into -em.Vigormortis said:
Teamplay is not as refined in Dota as it is in LoL because of the random elements and the less static lanes. Dota prioritizes ability to adapt ingame much more than any type of grand strategy or tactical decisions. Maybe 1 in 1000 games will you see a team pick a specialized lineup with a goal in mind (like an all in push lineup in a non-push meta). In LoL, laning, rotations, objective control, scaling, etc all seem to be important factors, but in Dota it isn't like that, at least not anymore since the death of 4p1, rat dota, etc.
I mean pros in Dota do not even seem able to adapt or think for themselves at all. Time and time again have we seen OP heroes or strategies go untouched by the "pros" and they only seem to pick it up when another team does it first or they see it in a pub game (which is basically how all of the metas become established - high level pub games). Not only does this make it boring because you end up seeing the same heroes over and over again, but it has a negative impact on the balance of the game.
Oh well, enough about Dota 2. Really excited to see how the rest of the games play out. Honestly, I think C9 might just drop 3 in a row now. LGD are currently the laughing stock of the world but I really think EDG can go the distance for the chinese, KOO also looked incredibly strong today.
Man... LGD... man...
I predicted them winning Worlds coming into this. I still think they can come back strong next wee, and that if they do they have a shot at the finals, but man, what a disappointing week, considering they really wrecked in LPL. It doesn't help that their pick/ban is absolutely horrible. Why on God's green earth would you ban Elise over Morde?
Cloud 9 I really thought would come out strong, but I thought Fnatic were unbeatable in this group before this tournament started. A loss for them became more plausible after seeing how strong Cloud 9 was, but still, that was a great match.
Meanwhile FW were my favorite for Group A and they get defeated by Pain. I have more respect for the Wildcards than most people, but that's still disappointing after seeing how well they did yesterday. I have no idea how CLG are gonna do for the rest of that group. But I feel like they're going to win just because I don't expect them to.
It's been a great worlds so far, I'm really excited for next week's matches. I hope a non-Korean team wins. Please, just don't let another Korean win happen...
I predicted them winning Worlds coming into this. I still think they can come back strong next wee, and that if they do they have a shot at the finals, but man, what a disappointing week, considering they really wrecked in LPL. It doesn't help that their pick/ban is absolutely horrible. Why on God's green earth would you ban Elise over Morde?
Cloud 9 I really thought would come out strong, but I thought Fnatic were unbeatable in this group before this tournament started. A loss for them became more plausible after seeing how strong Cloud 9 was, but still, that was a great match.
Meanwhile FW were my favorite for Group A and they get defeated by Pain. I have more respect for the Wildcards than most people, but that's still disappointing after seeing how well they did yesterday. I have no idea how CLG are gonna do for the rest of that group. But I feel like they're going to win just because I don't expect them to.
It's been a great worlds so far, I'm really excited for next week's matches. I hope a non-Korean team wins. Please, just don't let another Korean win happen...
TSM is, once again, completely doomed because while they're great in Bo5 series, they basically lose the first game they play against any given team.
