Less Crime in U.S. Thanks to Videogames

nuba km

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carpenter20m said:
RandomMab says it true: http://xkcd.com/552/

Also: I can't see how this is good news. It's not like it says that games draw people away from violence because they can make them more tolerant or they can release their anger through them. It says that young people don't turn to crime because they don't have time and do nothing to refute the studies showing that people become more violent through games: "Oh, yes, these studies might or might not be true, but it doesn't matter because people don't have the time to commit crimes".

Can't you see what's wrong with this? If you don't have the time to commit crimes, it means that you don't have the time to do other things as well, some of which are beneficial: go out, make friends, socialize, volunteer, whatever.

The fact that games take away your time is an argument against games, not for them. Playing games should be seen as a leisurely activity, running in parallel with other aspects of our lives.

In any case, that's how I see it. Am I the only one who doesn't see this as good news?
I see a misunderstand what they are saying, games don't take away time to do murder/other crimes but rather fill in the spare time were young kids/teenagers would spend out and about doing nothing and getting into trouble.

It is not saying people are stop doing things they have do or should do but rather that they will their leisure time with video games not going out getting drunk, I mean in my class the people who play video games come into school after the weekend well rested while the 'cool' kids come into school with a hang over except the ones who spend that time on CoD.

Also I would be more pleased if stuff like this would suggest that games help with improved productivity, or build a strong work ethic, but I can settle with helping reduce crime.
 

cerebus23

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TheAceTheOne said:
cerebus23 said:
TheAceTheOne said:
Greg Tito said:
...Conservatives and hate-mongerers...
Woah. Developed opinion, XD

Like I said, my beliefs don't fall into a particular category. If I had to pick, I'd say "Libertarian, leaning slightly in the direction of conservative." I only commented on the conservatives thing because nobody deserves to have generalizations made about them or their beliefs. Woulda done the same thing if I was left leaning, politically. Props for putting your opinion out there. Perhaps we should take this to the "Religion and Politics" thread if we're intending to continue this discussion. I don't want to end up hijacking this thread, XD
Well yea liberterain is today's independent voter of the past it is a catch all for people that do not like the direction our government is going, but that is a wide wide wide crossection of people that do not like this or that about government, when the liberterian movement was smaller it was at the very lest more focused with a platform, now they cannot even get one passed all the people flooding in to fill up the ranks in protest of the repubs and dems.

The american people in general have shown a willingness to elect independants and well it has a mixed track record, one the main parties do not like outsiders and will bend over backwards to obstruct them every chance they can. So we get the people have had enough elect an indy parties freeze them out its back to a dem or repub next go.

BUt for a 3rd party no matter what it is to really effect washington in some way you need the best of the best candidates and you need sweeping decisive victories, so they have that popular support to turn into political capitol, and hope it keeps you propped up and moving to get things passed.

I still break people down into left and right, the core base of the lib party is definately extreme right, but so dilluded now that i just think right somewhere.

Beyond that yea i do not like seeing cheap shots taken either especially when the left is fully involved in this stuff also, nor is simply saying conservative or democrat and implying that they are lock step loonies, when the moderate middle of either party is by far and wide the biggest chunk of the electorate, and then the fringe elements of either side as just better funded and have the right publicists to go get on news.

If pinned down i would probably say conservative for me however but i might have to qualify that a bit after since conservative today is so messed up.
 

TheAceTheOne

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cerebus23 said:
TheAceTheOne said:
cerebus23 said:
TheAceTheOne said:
Greg Tito said:
...Conservatives and hate-mongerers...
Woah. Developed opinion, XD

Like I said, my beliefs don't fall into a particular category. If I had to pick, I'd say "Libertarian, leaning slightly in the direction of conservative." I only commented on the conservatives thing because nobody deserves to have generalizations made about them or their beliefs. Woulda done the same thing if I was left leaning, politically. Props for putting your opinion out there. Perhaps we should take this to the "Religion and Politics" thread if we're intending to continue this discussion. I don't want to end up hijacking this thread, XD
...Beyond that yea i do not like seeing cheap shots taken either especially when the left is fully involved in this stuff also...
Could be seen as a cheap shot, no disrespect intended. I usually try to refrain from talking politics. I just don't like seeing generalizations made about anyone. I'm "neutral good" like that.

Aw, hell. Quote arrangement fail. Sorry. Too busy to fix it at this very moment, so please forgive me.
 

blackdwarf

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SirBryghtside said:
Heh, that Critical Miss comic comes to mind...

Scientist 1: Video games are linked to an increase violent behaviours!

Gamers: ARG HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT IT'S CORRELATION NOT CAUSE AND YOU'RE ALSO FAT!

Scientist 2: Video games are linked to a decrease in violent behaviours!

Gamers: HOORAY FINALLY SOME RESPECT LOOK AT ALL THIS SCIENCE!

yep, i also thought about that.

but it is true, when some researgh is proclaiming something that you agree with, then sudden its is a good researgh, but when its the oppisite its BS.

personally i don't believe that games cause violence, but i also don't believe it's the oppisite.
 

badgersprite

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Sep 22, 2009
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Jumplion said:
SirBryghtside said:
Heh, that Critical Miss comic comes to mind...

Scientist 1: Video games are linked to an increase violent behaviours!

Gamers: ARG HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT IT'S CORRELATION NOT CAUSE AND YOU'RE ALSO FAT!

Scientist 2: Video games are linked to a decrease in violent behaviours!

Gamers: HOORAY FINALLY SOME RESPECT LOOK AT ALL THIS SCIENCE!
You mean this one [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/8903-Critical-Miss-Gamer-Science], which I am ever so grateful that it was made. Perfectly illustrates the incredibly biased tendencies of gamers who like to think that they aren't biased.
To be fair, though, what do you expect on a website devoted to gaming populated by people who think games are good? I mean, would you expect a news and entertainment site devoted to gay people to make posts about how homosexuality is a sin, and to unbiasedly evaluate and agree with people who say it can be "cured"? No, I'm pretty sure most people would react badly to any study or article that suggested things like that.

Everyone is biased. No one likes to be told they're terrible and they suck and what they're doing is wrong. Everyone is pretty damn sure that they're right, or else they wouldn't do the things they do. Show me a person without any biases and I'll show you a corpse.

Moreover, it doesn't make much sense to expect objective journalism from what are quite obviously editorials. The modern news environment involves commentary (even bad commentary) just as much as it does dry reporting. You might think that's a terrible thing, but, if so, I can't help but think that a gaming website isn't really the place to start that crusade. I don't go expecting objective journalism from people whose entire job is to give their personal opinions on pieces of entertainment.
 

SilentHunter7

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...what I'm taking away from this article is that video games are making people too introverted to leave the house, and makes for less people on the street.

I'm not so sure that's a good thing.
 

TheAceTheOne

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randomfox said:
TheAceTheOne said:
Greg Tito said:
...Conservatives and hate-mongerers...
I dislike the bias against conservatives there. No offense, but that almost turned me off the article, seeing that I'm kind of conservative myself (usually, though, I call my beliefs "my beliefs" rather than conservative, since I wouldn't join a party that would have me as a member.) Being a conservative doesn't mean you hate videogames. Hell, I don't support any restrictions on them. (Ahem, I'll stop now, before this turns into a rant.)
He said conservatives, and hate mongerers. As in they are two separate entities. If he was lumping them together he would have said "conservative hate mongerers"...
I never said that he lumped them together. Hate-mongerers on either side are wrong. Hell, hate-mongering entirely is wrong. I'm not insecure either, and I resent that accusation. I pointed out the "conservatives" bit because it was the very first word of the bloody article besides the title and I felt it was a bit unfair to throw the blame onto just conservatives. I won't deny that conservatives have given the "ban violent video games" speeches before. But it seemed particularly unfair that there would be little, if any, mention of the other sides of the political spectrum and their involvement on the same argument.

My objection wasn't to him lumping the groups together. It was that there was some noticeable bias in the first line of the article which turned me off of the article a little, and my opinion that it was a little unfair.

Stop being so insecure when you know for a fact the majority of the dip shits who string up video games as the 21st century witch hunt are conservatives.
I don't appreciate being called insecure: That's a personal attack and was completely unjustified, in my opinion.

Where did you pull up the "the majority of the dip shits who string up video games as the 21st century witch hunt are conservatives" thing from? I'll concede that point if you can give me accurate, supported facts with examples. We're not talking just a few names, here. I want definitive proof. Just saying "Jack Thompson and Fox News" would be too easy a way out and I will not accept that as a valid argument. That's right, guy, I'm calling you out.

You outta be wasting your time being ashamed of the people giving conservatives a bad name, not the people who are acknowledging facts.
I'd like to point out the fact that several liberals have called several conservatives racist without any evidence, then called out the facts. I don't want a political flame war here, mate. Again, about "acknowledging facts", I'd like you to provide something in the way of that, like I said above.

No disrespect was intended by me, TheAceTheOne, to anyone involved. If you wanna talk politics further, message me, since I don't want to keep hijacking this thread. Thank you, have a nice day.
 

Yankeedoodles

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People have been trying to explain the plummeting crime rates of the 1990s and 2000s for quite a while now. It's hard to believe nowadays that people in the 1980s expected the ridiculously high violent crime rates of the that decade to just skyrocket in the next decade rather than fall like they did. Ever wonder why they used so much hairspray in the 80s? Cheap projectile deflector for the head!

Anyway, I had an interesting Criminal History professor who's been studying the phenomenon and if I remember correctly he believed that the falling crime rates were basically the result of faith. Faith in government and society and in institutions like the courts and police to treat people fairly and truly represent the people as a whole rather than just a privileged group. Things really got violent in this country in the 1960s. A lot of really important and fairly earthshattering changes had taken place in the 50s and 60s but a lot of people were frustrated by those changes or frustrated at the slow pace of change or just altogether frustrated and feeling isolated from the larger society. Supposedly this generalized feeling of disillusionment (and the crack-cocaine crisis of the 80s) and the resulting fear of the other helped lead to the big upswing in violence during the next few decades. If he's right maybe the drop in crime is the result of US having having built a society which we can have faith in and can live in without fearing our fellow man (as much). Or it could be video games. Who knows?
 

GeorgW

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Aug 27, 2010
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The world would be a better place if the people in charge hung out at the Escapist.
But I don't get the hate about the California law, isn't the whole point of a ratings board to keep bad stuff from minors? I get it, it's the parent's problem, but it's still not the end of the world.
As for the study, it's great to have the next time Fox News gets a brain haemorrhage, but I feel like it has about the same validity as all the opposing studies, which is to say iffy.
 

Crazy_Man_42

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I had a feeling this was true ever since I started playing videogames all those years back. Even did a little presentation about videogames and had a slide about the pros and cons of gaming and on it I talked about videogames preventing crime because it kept kids off the street which means they wouldn't get into drugs and crime.

It's good to know that I was right about it
 
Jun 23, 2008
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Greg Tito said:
...Conservatives and hate-mongerers...
TheAceTheOne said:
I dislike the bias against conservatives there.
This is one topic about which I am personally too bitter, considering liberal is regarded so derisive that contemporary Democrats prefer the word Progressive, which really refers to less-extremist (that is, moderate) Republicans. This generation gladly accepts the derision of liberals and liberalism, yet is angered by conservatism being criticized for how they're represented in the (conservative) media?

Let us see. Conservatives stereotypically:
~ Want to breach the wall of separation, introducing specifically Christian values into legislation and policy and public departments, such as schools. They often insist America was founded on Christian values, pointing to theism, and then insisting freedom of religion only refers to Judeo-Christian faiths.
~ Want to further reduce the rights and equality of women, especially regarding control of their role in reproduction. Conservatives deride women who seek abortions for unwanted pregnancies, yet also seek to cut access to birth control and assistance or benefits for single mothers, insisting that it was (generally, i.e. always) the woman's fault for getting knocked up in the first place. (Implying, also, that parenting is a punishment for the sin of sex.)
~ Want to restore racial segregation, since people of color in their communities offend them, especially when they appear en mass at their country clubs as members (rather than polite, uniformed employees).
~ Want to regulate sex, since the idea of people having sex outside of wedlock offends their delicate sensibilities.
~ Don't like fringe groups, whether or not they do actual harm to the community at large, such as Gays, gamers, Goths, atheists, rockers, Neopagans, fringe Christian denominations, rare ethnic groups, fans of questionable fiction and the disabled. And seek to deny these fringe groups rights equal to those enjoyed by the mainstream.
~ Believe that the bullying and harassment of such fringe groups, including children, is acceptable and should be encouraged.
~ Want to surpress scientific knowledge when in confict with specific religious scriptures (namely the Old and New testaments) in cases when a conclusion is offensive (e.g. that frequent incidents of homosexual behavior is, in fact, naturally found throughout observable zoology).
~ Believe in foreign policy that includes bullying other nations for their natural resources (specifically, oil), and that American interests and ideological concerns should supercede just war policy.
~ Believe war crimes are acceptable when committed by American forces on inconsequential peoples, or civilians associated with the enemy (e.g. the looting and rapine of terrorist families).
~ Believe in torture of suspected terrorists without due process.
~ Believe that it is acceptable for extraordinary rendition to claim the occasional innocent victim if, occasionally, useful intelligence saves lives somewhere else. (Statistics are unavailable regarding either, let alone a ratio of the two figures.)
~ Believe in denying assistance to the destitute, disabled, the out-of-work and the oppressed. Assistance that the Geneva Convention states are human rights due every man, woman and child on Earth.
~ Believe in trickle-down theory and faith based initiatives as a means to benefit the impoverished, regardless of the actual returns of either policy, id est, how much really trickles to those at the bottom (in contrast to what is hoarded at the top).

So, TheAceTheOne, I'd say, if you, as a conservative, agree with any one of the above positions, then you deserve to be derided and associated with hate-mongering, and if you don't believe in any of them, then you may not be conservative enough to deserve the label.

To give you the benefit of the doubt, if you don't agree with any of the above positions, then I'm curious what you do believe, that would cause you to identify yourself as conservative. While many people are philosophically conservative [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservativism], this is often contrary to the platforms of local conservative parties.

In the meantime, when Fox News conservatives stop being douchebags, and when I can be liberal without being thought of as an alfalfa-sprout-eating pot-smoking welfare-abusing America-hating communist hippie[footnote]Actually, I'm a raging liberal in this era only because my representatives shifted to the right of me. I was moderate-conservative in the early '90s. I was for gay marriage before it was trendy (because it is fair and right) and am also for fair gun ownership. But it also sickens me how much my peers and I have to USCCB [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_(sociology)] as unquestioning minions of the Holy See). This is the case despite that the majority of Christians and Christian denominations are actually moderate-to-liberal, and usually able to be polite in an online forum. The trend towards these negative stereotypes has been occasionally voiced before, but little has been done to affect change.[/footnote]

238U
 

TheAceTheOne

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Uriel-238 said:
Greg Tito said:
...Conservatives and hate-mongerers...
TheAceTheOne said:
I dislike the bias against conservatives there.
This is one topic about which I am personally too bitter, considering liberal is regarded so derisive that contemporary Democrats prefer the word Progressive, which really refers to less-extremist (that is, moderate) Republicans. This generation gladly accepts the derision of liberals and liberalism, yet is angered by conservatism being criticized for how they're represented in the (conservative) media?

Let us see. Conservatives stereotypically:
~ Want to breach the wall of separation, introducing specifically Christian values into legislation and policy and public departments, such as schools. They often insist America was founded on Christian values, pointing to theism, and then insisting freedom of religion only refers to Judeo-Christian faiths.
~ Want to further reduce the rights and equality of women, especially regarding control of their role in reproduction. Conservatives deride women who seek abortions for unwanted pregnancies, yet also seek to cut access to birth control and assistance or benefits for single mothers, insisting that it was (generally, i.e. always) the woman's fault for getting knocked up in the first place. (Implying, also, that parenting is a punishment for the sin of sex.)
~ Want to restore racial segregation, since people of color in their communities offend them, especially when they appear en mass at their country clubs as members (rather than polite, uniformed employees).
~ Want to regulate sex, since the idea of people having sex outside of wedlock offends their delicate sensibilities.
~ Don't like fringe groups, whether or not they do actual harm to the community at large, such as Gays, gamers, Goths, atheists, rockers, Neopagans, fringe Christian denominations, rare ethnic groups, fans of questionable fiction and the disabled. And seek to deny these fringe groups rights equal to those enjoyed by the mainstream.
~ Believe that the bullying and harassment of such fringe groups, including children, is acceptable and should be encouraged.
~ Want to surpress scientific knowledge when in confict with specific religious scriptures (namely the Old and New testaments) in cases when a conclusion is offensive (e.g. that frequent incidents of homosexual behavior is, in fact, naturally found throughout observable zoology).
~ Believe in foreign policy that includes bullying other nations for their natural resources (specifically, oil), and that American interests and ideological concerns should supercede just war policy.
~ Believe war crimes are acceptable when committed by American forces on inconsequential peoples, or civilians associated with the enemy (e.g. the looting and rapine of terrorist families).
~ Believe in torture of suspected terrorists without due process.
~ Believe that it is acceptable for extraordinary rendition to claim the occasional innocent victim if, occasionally, useful intelligence saves lives somewhere else. (Statistics are unavailable regarding either, let alone a ratio of the two figures.)
~ Believe in denying assistance to the destitute, disabled, the out-of-work and the oppressed. Assistance that the Geneva Convention states are human rights due every man, woman and child on Earth.
~ Believe in trickle-down theory and faith based initiatives as a means to benefit the impoverished, regardless of the actual returns of either policy, id est, how much really trickles to those at the bottom (in contrast to what is hoarded at the top).

So, TheAceTheOne, I'd say, if you, as a conservative, agree with any one of the above positions, then you deserve to be derided and associated with hate-mongering, and if you don't believe in any of them, then you may not be conservative enough to deserve the label.

To give you the benefit of the doubt, if you don't agree with any of the above positions, then I'm curious what you do believe, that would cause you to identify yourself as conservative. While many people are philosophically conservative [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservativism], this is often contrary to the platforms of local conservative parties.

In the meantime, when Fox News conservatives stop being douchebags, and when I can be liberal without being thought of as an alfalfa-sprout-eating pot-smoking welfare-abusing America-hating communist hippie[footnote]Actually, I'm a raging liberal in this era only because my representatives shifted to the right of me. I was moderate-conservative in the early '90s. I was for gay marriage before it was trendy (because it is fair and right) and am also for fair gun ownership. But it also sickens me how much my peers and I have to USCCB [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_(sociology)] as unquestioning minions of the Holy See). This is the case despite that the majority of Christians and Christian denominations are actually moderate-to-liberal, and usually able to be polite in an online forum. The trend towards these negative stereotypes has been occasionally voiced before, but little has been done to affect change.[/footnote]

238U
I'm more economically conservative, I'd say (more small business support and whatnot. My dad does own a small business after all). I kind of believe in my own stuff, and I really don't care what anyone does as long as they let me do my own thing.as the above. I really, frankly, honestly don't give a damn what anyone does with themselves. If you live off welfare, good for you. If you work, good for you. If you want an abortion and get one, great, it's your body, it's your choice. If you don't believe in it, then great, that's your choice. The entire list you listed off... I am not going to reply with a counter. The reason is that I'd be taking 7+ pages to do so, haha. Not sure if this gave any answering to your question, so message me if there's anything you're hazy about. It looks like hijacking this thread wasn't quite thoroughly avoided.
 

eriktheguy

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This is not evidence that videogames don't cause violence. This paper was written by an economist, not a psychologist. This alone is not enough to dismiss his claims. However, he goes on to criticize the work of psychologists claiming that their studies do not show increased aggression over the long term (not true), and the paper does not appear to have been published in a peer reviewed journal(it is currently only listed as a working paper, this should be a red flag). Moreover, he completely fails to cite major literature sources that disagree with him, such as this massive meta-analytic study across many universities which demonstrates a causal, long-term connection between video games and increased aggression.
http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/faculty/caa/abstracts/2010-2014/10ASISBSRS.pdf

I should add that the author is not claiming videogames don't increase violence, but instead that they don't increase violent crime. This is different from the discussion scientists usually have, as there are many factors contributing to violent crime that are very hard to follow, and showing that videogames do or do not increase incidence of violent crime is very difficult.

While I disagree with bans/restrictions on videogame sales, it dismays me that we as gamer are so illogical when cornered with evidence we don't like. The article I posted is an example of critically tested, causal, long-term increased aggressive behavior, CAUSED by videogames. We need to understand that this increase in aggression is small and doesn't warrant restrictions on our art more so than any other medium, but we also have to start taking real science seriously, or no one will be willing to take us seriously.

Greg Tito, I hope you understand that the justices would be doing the right thing to ignore this article. This is a working paper that has not yet passed peer review. When citing a scientific article in your stories, it is probably best to mention that they are not peer reviewed. If they aren't, it's probably best to add a qualifier to the title of your article, such as "Less Crime in US Thanks to Videogames, Study Claims". This protects your credibility and helps prevent accidentally misleading readers.
 

Fearzone

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Dec 3, 2008
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There is less crime in the United States than a few decades ago. People will find all kinds of bogus way to tie less crime into whatever thing they support. One study tied fewer crimes into better legality of women getting abortions, and that even made it to Scientific America. Well I guess that was mentioned in the article but I read that a few years back.

Just because videogames have a way of being on the wrong end of bogus studies, doesn't make doing the reverse ok.
 

That One Six

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Dec 14, 2008
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This week the study says video games prevent violence, next week video games cause 99.9% of all murders in the world (the other .1% being the germ that 99.9% cleaners don't kill). It's been a circle for as long as I can remember.