Less Crime in U.S. Thanks to Videogames
- Thread starter Greg Tito
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Yes, it is ONLY VIDEO GAMES! Huzzah!
I'm guessing that the chances are video games have only had a moderate effect on this, or perhaps just minor.
There have to have been far more changes in society, education, and the general morality of the populace other than, "People are playing more video games."
I'm guessing that the chances are video games have only had a moderate effect on this, or perhaps just minor.
There have to have been far more changes in society, education, and the general morality of the populace other than, "People are playing more video games."
sorry guys but to me this seems like just a faulty statement as the opposite, this seems to exclude any kind of social reforms or any kind of education that the kids may have gotten that has changed, maybe kids are just more informed than they were 20 years ago.
i think its a big step to say that a hobby has single handedly changed criminal behavior. to me it seems as unrealistic as postulating that a hobby can elicit violence and criminal behavior from sane individuals.
although the argument apparently makes sense that kids are to busy to murder because they are gaming, however does this mean that if there is a power outage there will be a million murders? it seems ludicrous, and naive to believe that are so impressionable that they are incapable of making their own decisions... hell our legal system would be useless if that was true.
i think its a big step to say that a hobby has single handedly changed criminal behavior. to me it seems as unrealistic as postulating that a hobby can elicit violence and criminal behavior from sane individuals.
although the argument apparently makes sense that kids are to busy to murder because they are gaming, however does this mean that if there is a power outage there will be a million murders? it seems ludicrous, and naive to believe that are so impressionable that they are incapable of making their own decisions... hell our legal system would be useless if that was true.
i know this probably is not the forum to debate gun politics, but the US has one of the absolute highest rates of gun violence if not the highest... especially when compared to European countries. would't it make sense to ban them for two reasons.RelexCryo said:
1: making it as hard as possible for a criminal to get them, admittedly a weak reason i know
2: alot of gun violence is perpetrated in the heat of the moment, i.e a violent argument or some other conflict, where emotions are involved, and because of this people are capable of killing each other because of a heightened emotional state and the ease of getting a gun and shooting someone. making it harder for people to kille each other is a no brainer in my opinion, sure there will still be murder, but it will only be committed by people who have had to meticulously plan their crimes.
either a gun ban or raising the cost of bullets to the extreme, like 5000 dollars for one bullet.
I also believe it's over 6000 years old... and flat (I kid.)eriktheguy said:It's scary how much this reminds me of trying to convince people that the Earth is older than 6000 yrs.rhizhim said:im sorry but this just reminds me of this:
OT: As much as I would like to break out the champagne and rolling out my vinyl records of Kool and the Gang, I also think it might be a bit too early to start celebrating. Hopefully this will give us some sort of leg to stand on as the video game industry tries to mature.
Huh. I came to this realization many years ago. Sad that so many "experts" can't. If people are inside playing games with their friends instead of out being vandals and worse, there you go.
Common sense is awesome.
Common sense is awesome.
Funny, my parents always told me to get outside and play on the streets like my friend.
My friend is now on probation and his teenage girlfriend is pregnant.
On the other hand I am now morbidly obese.
Why is that sad? It's sad that a young woman are left forced to raise a child by themselves without the means to give them a proper upbringing.
Anyhoo, the conservatives are going to hate this. Crime is their favourite issue and there is evidence both abortion and video games have helped stemmed it? Not Nancy Reagan's "jsut say no" campaign? also:
-The Obama effect
-Lead in petrol (liberals fought much more for clean air acts)
EDIT: can conservatives take credit for crack supply fall with the republican led "war on drugs"?
On the other hand, liberals have a lot to be pissed about when they hear these measures apparently reduced crime rate:
-tougher sentences meaning more criminals were behind bars
-Baby Boomers (hippies) got too old to get into trouble
-More pro-active policing
-proliferation of camera phones and CCTV, (though maybe both liberals and conservatives are equally paranoid of Big Brother)
My friend is now on probation and his teenage girlfriend is pregnant.
On the other hand I am now morbidly obese.
Greg Tito said:
Why is that sad? It's sad that a young woman are left forced to raise a child by themselves without the means to give them a proper upbringing.
Anyhoo, the conservatives are going to hate this. Crime is their favourite issue and there is evidence both abortion and video games have helped stemmed it? Not Nancy Reagan's "jsut say no" campaign? also:
-The Obama effect
-Lead in petrol (liberals fought much more for clean air acts)
EDIT: can conservatives take credit for crack supply fall with the republican led "war on drugs"?
On the other hand, liberals have a lot to be pissed about when they hear these measures apparently reduced crime rate:
-tougher sentences meaning more criminals were behind bars
-Baby Boomers (hippies) got too old to get into trouble
-More pro-active policing
-proliferation of camera phones and CCTV, (though maybe both liberals and conservatives are equally paranoid of Big Brother)
Swizterland has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. They hand out assault rifles to the vast majority of male citizens. America has high crime because of horrible living/social conditions, a survey conducted by the U.N. found that some parts of the U.S. are as horrible as a third world country.O maestre said:
Preventing citizens from carrying guns has consistently resulted in more crime in the U.S., while allowing us to carry guns has consistently resulted in less. Most people are not going to murder each other, period. The vast majority of gun murders in the United States is committed by career criminals, not normal people in a sudden fit of rage.
Well, it's still implying causation from a correlation (a big no-no), but at least their correlation is correct (as opposed to all the people blaming the imaginary increase of crime on video games).
sigh we shouldn't even try to debate this we are not going to see eye to eye no matter how many facts we sling at each other...RelexCryo said:
in regards to switzerland check out their gun politics. the swiss are pretty much unique within europe, their internal politics have not changed in roughly 150 years they still uphold a citzens militia rather than a professional military... this also means that the populace is constantly in "training", the weapons they are given are not simple consumer items but rather objects that reflect their duty to their society, and the martial culture that has existed for centuries, in other words they are given the weapons for the specific purpose of being able mobelize and defend their country at a moments notice, their education of firearms is institutionalized. they grow up around guns in a completely different way. all this can hardly be compared to american gun culture, or any other country's firearm politics.
also the countries attitude to the rest of europe is somewhat participatory but in no way bound by any formal commitment. when i was thinking of europe i was thinking about the EU im sorry for not being clearer.
you are absolutely right that it is a question of societal structure, it is for that very reason that i believe guns can only exacerbate these issues, especially when weapons are not given proper reverence. gun ownership should be followed up with education and a license, to at least instil some sense of responsibility, kind of like a drivers license. gun violence is almost always fatal, and if not then it is crippling, and it is incredibly easy to perpetrate.
people kill people but guns make it way too easy...
Coincidence does not imply causation, people. This is the same phrase ignored by the regular press to demonize gaming, only this time the crime rate is down.
There are other correlating data suggesting why crime in the US actually fell, for example the legalization of abortion, the Three Strikes Law, reduced exposure to lead (now that's just getting silly)... but the phrase still applies, again.
This shows how the gaming press is no different than the regular one with the methods used. The study shown here (and the way it's misquoted) has no more credibility than another suggesting video games cause psychological disorders.
RELEVANT [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/8903-Critical-Miss-Gamer-Science]
Also, ninja'd hard D:
There are other correlating data suggesting why crime in the US actually fell, for example the legalization of abortion, the Three Strikes Law, reduced exposure to lead (now that's just getting silly)... but the phrase still applies, again.
This shows how the gaming press is no different than the regular one with the methods used. The study shown here (and the way it's misquoted) has no more credibility than another suggesting video games cause psychological disorders.
RELEVANT [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/8903-Critical-Miss-Gamer-Science]
Also, ninja'd hard D:
It's a reasonable theory, and some work ahs gone to proving it :Crimson_Dragoon said:
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1804959
The fundamental mechanism of this theory is sound, that violent criminality is less of pure product of aggression and more a product of opportunity with certain demographics.
The studies relating aggression with violent video games are also without context, is it ONLY violent video games that do this?
I'd also like to see what other consumable media inspires aggression in a similar way that certain video games do. Does a rant from Glen Beck make the viewer more aggressive? Is the crowd at a sporting event made more aggressive by the state of the game, I mean just look at how many riots have succeeded big sporting events, most notably in Vancouver. Though that would be a case of both aggression AND opportunity: large crowds, group identity, etc.
you know as soon as i find out micheal atkinsins address i will personnaly print this out then shove it in his face then laugh.
PS. if anybody has already locted the former atterney gerneral please let me know
PS. if anybody has already locted the former atterney gerneral please let me know
It makes sense, how often do riot police have to be deployed at LAN parties? And how often are riot police needed at sports games? Vancouver?
And don't all these street gangs dress in faux sports clothing? Just recently sports team rivalries escalated to the point of mail bombs being delivered.
I love my brother, but he plays a lot of sport and he is a dick.
All the studies linking video games to "aggression" have been of the most spurious kind and no evidence of aggression that is a detriment to society, like violent crime. Like play a violent video game then more likely to honk a horn louder in a player-vs-player game, what relevance is that to domestic abuse, gang wars and armed robbery? Where is the evidence it has a chronic degenerative effect?
It's bullshit because it's without relevance. The Milgram experiment famously showed that authority can drive people to do REALLY violent things, torture people - as far as they know - until they DIE! Yet as a society we continue to reinforce values of respecting/obeying authority while media on right and left pontificate about how how "hey, maybe video games are all to blame for crime" they didn't have them when I was a kid (when crime rates were higher but seemed lower because they were kids who didn't know what was going on).
THAT is the "bullshit" we call that that comic misrepresents as an anti-science perspective.
It's not the studies themselves nor the provable scientific results where the objection is. It is the spurious conclusion from those results trying to apply them to the real worth through a prejudiced perspective of "video games different, bad".
And don't all these street gangs dress in faux sports clothing? Just recently sports team rivalries escalated to the point of mail bombs being delivered.
I love my brother, but he plays a lot of sport and he is a dick.
rhizhim said:im sorry but this just reminds me of this:
It's relevant for how creationist will also use "science" to support their belief, only apply it is such a narrow way it is irrelevant to real world applications. Like applying laws of entropy to "disprove" the possibility of aspects of evolution.eriktheguy said:
All the studies linking video games to "aggression" have been of the most spurious kind and no evidence of aggression that is a detriment to society, like violent crime. Like play a violent video game then more likely to honk a horn louder in a player-vs-player game, what relevance is that to domestic abuse, gang wars and armed robbery? Where is the evidence it has a chronic degenerative effect?
It's bullshit because it's without relevance. The Milgram experiment famously showed that authority can drive people to do REALLY violent things, torture people - as far as they know - until they DIE! Yet as a society we continue to reinforce values of respecting/obeying authority while media on right and left pontificate about how how "hey, maybe video games are all to blame for crime" they didn't have them when I was a kid (when crime rates were higher but seemed lower because they were kids who didn't know what was going on).
THAT is the "bullshit" we call that that comic misrepresents as an anti-science perspective.
It's not the studies themselves nor the provable scientific results where the objection is. It is the spurious conclusion from those results trying to apply them to the real worth through a prejudiced perspective of "video games different, bad".
Huxley's Brave New World depicts a world with virtually no crime - the mere cost is an infantile, sedentary, non-intellectual, terrorized population. One question as our world becomes increasingly totalitarian is how many readers of The Escapist want it that way, making it all the easier for them to enjoy their precious video games.
Well what we want is our art form to be unfairly censored. And if they are blamed for violent crime then they most likely will be.briankoontz said:
Video games don't make an "infantile, sedentary, non-intellectual, terrorized population" any more than a bridge club or building model airplanes do. It's an engaging and stimulating pastime both emotionally and intellectually and IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY does it count as government terrorisation of the population. And NO BODY here or anywhere want it that way.
The "Brave New World" comparison is utterly irrelevant.
Why is it so hard for people to accept the role that poverty and the illegal drug trade has in violent crime? Of unemployment and social deprivation? Alcoholism and drug-dependency? The formation of street gangs? The well accepted factors of chronic crime are almost mutually exclusive from owning and playing video games.
People in the U.S. generally need a liscence to carry a gun. Moreover, there are so many guns floating around the criminal underworld at this time, that it would take decades to disarm them, even if a full nationwide ban on handguns was enacted. This is assuming that criminal gangs don't just smuggle in handguns manafactured illegally explicitly for blackmarket sale, and there are many organizations which do this. Marijuana, cocaine, and liquor when it was outlawed, were/are all widely availabe, despite nationwide bans.O maestre said:
The end result is that criminals generally have guns despite the law, if the sentence for murder does not deter them then no additional criminal penalties will, and since police are not psychic, they cannot know who is and who is not carrying a gun.
Ultimately, all these factors combbined create a scenario where letting citizens carry guns generally creates less crime.
i concede to your point things have gotten beyond control of the government, and cannot be stabilized without having to violate the personal freedom of the citizens. however i hope you agree that the gun culture in the US is not... healthy? people should learn to respect guns as the instruments of death that they are, perhaps copying the swiss model to some extent and institutionalizing gun ownership, to some degree, perhaps adapting it to serve the martial culture that already exists within the US.RelexCryo said:
however naive it may be, my hope is that one day, being in possession of a weapon will be enough to judicially separate the guilty from the innocent, or rather more precisely differentiate between meticulous and malicious criminals,and what could be excused as accidental criminals.
make no mistake i am in no way for leniency, in fact i really think that the current range of sentences are no where near punitive enough. once the crime is committed you deserve everything you get, accidental or not. but i believe that if the country was to hypothetically start over, with a firearms ban in place, it would be a lot easier to exercise justice. as well as fewer needless deaths.