Lessons to teach men with absent fathers

[JoJo]

Snip

Hm. certainly interesting. Not sure if I agree with it 100% but it's interesting.

Do you have any sources about that extra developmental stage?

I don't have the OG sources since I learned most of that between a workplace lecture and a university library book, don't really have time now but I'll see if I can dig anything up online tomorrow after work.

 

[Jamieson 90]

As a male Teaching Assistant who works in a school which is predominantly dominated by female staff, I can tell you that the boys definitely do look up to the men and that we have a huge influence on how they behave. Like it or loath it, that's just the way it is.

They copy you in ways you wouldn't even think of.

How you stand, how you talk, how you use your voice.
How you treat girls/women.
What sort of jobs you do i.e. lifting heavy things instead of a female member of staff etc.
They watch and see how good you are at reacting under pressure, whether you can figure things out or use directions etc; how decisive you are.

Basically anything you can think of they'll copy it.

Things are changing of course, but there are a lot of old ideas about men and women that still persist, and it's my belief that there are certain subjects or things that are better dealt with by a man, at least where boys are concerned.

For example:
A boy's first shave.
Learning about puberty & the dreaded 'talk', although to be fair I imagine talks about periods and the like come better from women where girls are concerned too, because let's face it, there are some subjects we feel more comfortable discussing with people of the same sex.

 

[Someone Depressing]

I grew up without a dad, but he was sort of a useless sack of shit, and I was surrounded by capable, strong, independent women who didn't need no men for most of my life. I haven't joined a gang, killed anyone (at least, I don't think so) and haven't committed any mass bank fraud lately.

In my community, girls without mothers was always a bigger problem than those lazy bastards not paying the damn childcare (MEN. Damn 'em to heck) as teachers and adults would always worry that they would end up picking abusive boyfriends or would lack the confidence to assert themselves and would instead be victimised by sexists or whatever.

Looking back on it, it seems silly, as the girls without mothers - or parental figures at all, really - all grew up fine.

 

[Reasonable Atheist]

At this stage boys imitate the men around them to learn how to be a man, .

and what does it mean to actually be a man?

It can mean anything, look at this thread and you'll find more than fifty definitions here alone. This is why it's crucial for boys to have a positive male influence who can teach them to be a responsible man, one who isn't violent towards their spouses or children and is generally decent. That picture of masculinity is one you want them to learn, rather than say a swaggering 'Jack the Lad' who's never done a honest day's work in his life and only thinks about getting laid easy.

Now, clearly some people never get a good role-model and still make it, others have a great start and fall by the wayside for various reasons. It's about shifting in the odds in the kid's direction, nothing is foolproof, you have to do your best and hope it works.

Look, this is something that's been bugging me for the entire thread and it's the reason I think it's going downhill...why does a man need to have a male role model? It really does seem to be pushing that old mindset that the only way a family can function properly is with a traditional nuclear family, one dad, one mom. Kids raised by lesbian couples and single mothers seem to turn out all right. I'm just confused, why does a male need a male role model?

Then again I probably shouldn't talk because every time someone tells me to "be a man" I feel the urge to tell them to go fuck themselves with a cactus. Man only means one of two things to me. A male who has reached adulthood and emotional maturity, and a person who identifies as the male gender. That's all it means to me. Everything else just seems...kind of pointless. People keep saying "men have to be X" "Men have to be Y" and it just baffles me. Why do we have to march in gridlock? Why can't we just be who we are? I get that some people really need role models in life, especially in media, but really the overall implication I'm getting from this thread is that people really need someone specifically male in their day to day life. Which just kind of baffles me.

I just don't get it.

Men and women typically behave differently, sure there are exceptions to every rule and perhaps you fall into one of those. That does not change the fact that men and women are different. When someone says "be a man" they typically mean (I think) Stick up for yourself, Do not let people push around those you care for, Do not shy away from conflict if it is about something that matters to you, and be willing to bite the bullet and do some serious suffering it it leads to something positive for you and yours.

This is not to say that women could not also benefit from this same advice, its just some things that are traditionally attributed to a masculine attitude, and it seems to me from my life experience (with some exceptions of course) that this generally holds true.

 

[mecegirl]

Personally I think both genders need positive male and female role models just so they can get a jump start on learning how to become well adjusted person, and to learn what well adjusted people look like. Those role models don't have to be the biological mother and father, but hopefully they exist. It could be a teacher, coach or neighbor. It certainly has helped me dodge some bullets in my personal life. Of course I have a smaller group of friends because of my tenancy to not get close to certain people, but all my friends are good ones. I also can't say that I have any enemies. But every once and a while I'll hear about some drama caused by a person that I've flagged as trouble and feel a lot better about who I keep close.

 

[cleric of the order]

Look, this is something that's been bugging me for the entire thread and it's the reason I think it's going downhill...

From what I saw, the thread kinda started on the wrong foot. no need for modesty.

why does a man need to have a male role model?

Some of us do, why not.
Why have any role models, people you admire at all, it just muddies the essence of yourself.
Sometimes i think, deep down some dudes just need to know it's alright to be a dude, sometimes the weight of the fathers sin's weight heavy on a few guys.
Others are quiet over gender roles like you and need a bit of a hand, I've felt that a good father figure helps the idea of what is a man go down quite smoothly, cuts out the over simplified bullshit people spout about what is a man. Helps people learn to balance who they are with what society expects, their duties and their responsibilities.
If I didn't have a couple good father figures I would have been worse off.
At the very least, this I suppose as a thread is more about working out emotional baggage/sharing experiences and just helping others get through this shit. not sure if that was the OPs intention but why care.
There's more jungian unconscious shit i could get into but that's a bit... weird.

It really does seem to be pushing that old mindset that the only way a family can function properly is with a traditional nuclear family, one dad, one mom.

Not always, it just means people like to have men in their lives, ones they can look up to and respect.

Kids raised by lesbian couples and single mothers seem to turn out all right.

There is always a butch and a feminine no? even then that's an interesting study.

I'm just confused, why does a male need a male role model?

Why have any role models at all? I was thinking the best and fastest way to destroy gender roles is to have kids raised by a gender neutral machine.
It might piss off harry harlow though, he fucked up so many monkeys to warn us of this.

Then again I probably shouldn't talk because every time someone tells me to "be a man" I feel the urge to tell them to go fuck themselves with a cactus.

Context sensitive man, there is a big difference between some backwoods ol' racist tellin' yah that and anyone else telling you to keep a stiff upper lip. Also who the hell tells you that, seriously?

Man only means one of two things to me. A male who has reached adulthood and emotional maturity, and a person who identifies as the male gender. That's all it means to me. Everything else just seems...kind of pointless.

I should point out that, that is not true for every human being. Some hold high regard the ideals of manhood and womanhood and the responsibilities and duties therein, and they are perfectly reasonable, kind and good human beings. it's the enforcing your beliefs on someone that is the act of .... merciful evil, or cruel good. catch my meaning?

People keep saying "men have to be X" "Men have to be Y" and it just baffles me. Why do we have to march in gridlock? Why can't we just be who we are?

I always liked the quote from bone about dragons, we told everyone that they were a lie, people would have to find out for themselves. It's about transcendence, understanding these roles and making due with what you have and functioning with it.
I could "be myself" as much as i wanted but life needs conflict, it grows around it and through it and these knots, warps boils and everything are what help define us. We are only truly ourselves at our worse and best. And we can only find ourselves after a long dark night of the soul.
(existentialism fo life.)

I get that some people really need role models in life, especially in media, but really the overall implication I'm getting from this thread is that people really need someone specifically male in their day to day life.

dude te point of this thread was to give advise to people that have either had no fathers or bad fathers.
which will bring me to this

Which just kind of baffles me.

I just don't get it.

Well imagine having never knowing you biological parents. then remove half of that, obviously some people would like to know about their father and the culture/experiences they've had.
The father is 1/2 of your linage and behind you stands ranks upon ranks of ancestors, cultures, ideas and so forth that you are lacking.
I really wish my dad was clean and sober enough to tell me about Jamaica or my cousins in India. Whom i know very little about.
And while he is far better now in his later years I bet a lot of others he also want to know hat there is some link to there past, want to mitigate the damage some what.
Just a thought

 

[Erttheking]

Personally I think both genders need positive male and female role models just so they can get a jump start on learning how to become well adjusted person, and to learn what well adjusted people look like. Those role models don't have to be the biological mother and father, but hopefully they exist. It could be a teacher, coach or neighbor. It certainly has helped me dodge some bullets in my personal life. Of course I have a smaller group of friends because of my tenancy to not get close to certain people, but all my friends are good ones. I also can't say that I have any enemies. But every once and a while I'll hear about some drama caused by a person that I've flagged as trouble and feel a lot better about who I keep close.

Hm...this actually makes sense when approached from this angle.

I suppose I could've stood to learn something from this thread if I hadn't been so hot headed...oh boy, me and my temper getting the better of me again.

 

[VanQ]

Jesus, I haven't ever actually heard of any guy actually doing that in real life. Nobody deserves that. Nobody.

oh come off it.

depends on the poetry and context.

my entire nation spent last Sunday doing that (at least notionally/partially)...

Calm down. I mean I've never heard of a guy read poetry to try to 'woo' a girl. The thought of how awkward that must be is scary. I have nothing against poetry otherwise.

 

[VanTesla]

If you grow up without a father or a abusive father you should always know you are not at fault for his actions. What I mean is for any that have grown up without or have been abuse sometimes think or are even told by bad people that they are somehow part of the problem. Never should you be told or feel that your father is X because of you for that is an excuse and lie that can eat away at your very soul/mind if you let it fester.

I was fortunate to have a good mother and supportive family on her side if that was not the case I could have become something I hate or be dead, but sadly many around the world don't have even that. Their struggle is much harder and if they find no positive support they are more likely to join the wrong kind of people or possibly commit harm to ones own self. Those that have no father, mother, and family should never have to feel that they are not loved and never feel they are worthless or a mistake. Your battle is great to overcome the absence of be it a father, mother, family, and your reward to overcoming these hurdles is the knowledge that you are loved and worth more than any one that has done wrong to their own blood if you never do so to repeat their failures as a father, mother, and etc.

So in all you are never truly alone in your struggle when growing up without one or more parents and you do have support even if it may not be easy to see or to find depending on where you live and your situation, but you are none the less still never truly alone in your struggles and thus your are loved.

 

[Armadox]

I'd been considering this topic thoroughly as for what was the most important lessons I found out when I left home early, and it's this....

You're going to live or die by your own hands, and it's going to be bloody, and it's going to hurt and it's going to keep you down. And you're going to fight harder then every man or woman you see, because no matter where you are you're going to always see others succeeding where you didn't. And you know what? It's all on you. You didn't win the prize, you don't get the stable home, you're going to have to fend for you.

You're going to have to take the fight to the world, and you're going to have to outsmart it. And it's brains that win this game, kid. Brains. You can be the strongest back in the pack, but you'll always be a mule if you never think about where you're going. Used up and spat out and worn down. General labor is good for a laugh and a fist full of bills at the start, but don't make it a habit.

But first right here and now? You're going to have to have a plan. It doesn't have to be long term, it doesn't have to be grand, but whatever you plan to be in the future. You got to start being it now. You're going to have to look inside yourself to that little furnace and find what you're passionate about. What sparks you. Then you fuel that until it burns up everything else and all you're left with is the drive to make that yours.

But that step up you need to even start? That first step to being someone? That's on you to figure out. You want a job, a home, a car? Know the right people or have the right skills, but pick which one you want to follow now and quickly, because it's a very cold world and it's not going to wait for you to decide for long. Because it's going to seem like everyone else got the chance to have mom and dad pull them up that first step, and you... you didn't. You want something? Skills or people. It's the only way, and those who see that first wins.

Don't expect help, but from my experience the world'll throw you a bone now and then, and there are good people who'll slip into your life that you got to know you can call on when the time is right. Things start hurting less after the first few years. You'll callous after being knocked down long enough.

If you're lucky you'll learn to temper that anger that you've built up, and you're going to build it up. Everyone finds themselves raging at the world when things don't go their way, but it's important to know when you're able to stop fighting. When things start falling into place, and you start to make sense of it all, and the parties and the friends start to fall away as you leave school and enter real adult life. You learn to temper that anger into something useful. Into a trade or a profession. To take all those skills and hone them and don't stop. Anger will be the drive that will see you at the start, but don't build a shrine to it and end up just as bad as the things you came from.

Because one day, one day you'll meet someone who'll sooth you. Heh, one day you're going to find someone who's going to be there to help you and work with you (that's with you, not for you or you for them. You want to make ends meet, make them met in the middle), and one day you might have a kid yourself. And you're going to want to do right by making the world less brutal for him or her if you can.

Hell... In the end, it's all about making the beating your kids get less then the one you're about to get. And you're about to get one nasty beating.

That's the lesson at the end of it all is; Life is going to be hard, and you're job is to make it less hard for someone else.



Oh, and learn to bloody cook. Doesn't matter how good it is, you learn to bloody damn well cook. A pot of chili frozen into sandwich bags will last you a week (two if you can get your hands on a stew or crock pot early), and be a hell of a lot more filling then it's equivalent price in ramen. Nothing will save your ass more, or please your partner more then to come home and cook a meal once in a while.

captcha: Goody Toe Shoes. Not even close captcha.. Not even close.

 

[wulf3n]

Please show me where he said choosing to follow them means they're overly attached.

It's in the first post I quoted.

Hint: He never specified what behavior qualified as overly attached. You're assuming it.

True, it was an inference based on the tone. I'd be happy to be corrected by erttheking if that's not what he intended.

No. The first sentence merely says about society being too attached to roles. That's it. It says nothing about individuals wanting to be these roles.

Which says those who choose said roles are contributing to the excess by its very nature.

The two sentences are from two different posts and different contexts.

Different posts, yes. Different contexts, no.

Your claim is flimsy at best.

flimsy is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Loonyyy]

And now you can sit right back down. I'm also a bloke. Wanna see my fucking wifebeater? Hell, I'm another child of divorce. You wanna condescend me some more. Right back down.

It don't change the fact that it started off sexist, and in the subsequent posts, got more so. And it's not just because of women. It is sexist towards women when you start talking about lack of a father figure and prostitution etc, but that wasn't what I was concerned with. It's sexist towards men, so pipe down.

This shit about lack of a father and gangs. As I said, the main problem I have with it is that it's asking for this stupid "blokey" exchange. Which is absolute fucking hogwash. To be a good man, you need to be a good person, and a man, whatever form that takes. And that can involve listening to anyone and everyone. There. Fucking done. You don't need anything extra to be a good man. As I said, kids need a stable, loving environment. It doesn't matter who their parents are, it matters that they have a safe environment where they are supported(And of course, kids with same-gendered parents are even more marginalized by this. Oh well, guess they'll never fill that father shaped hole. News flash, that hole is put there when they rip a parent out. It ain't a feature). Hell, you can't even get right that being attracted to women has nothing to do with being a man. What about gay men, or asexual men? What about men who are attracted to men? What about men who aren't domineering assholes, and can stand listening to what women think about their romantic partners? That's what happens when you come at it from this traditionalist, essentialist, retrograde view. You get it all wrong. It doesn't help that your advice there is also sexist hogwash. Although this time you are just shitting on women, so I guess, as one bloke to another, I guess we can give you a pass.

We'll go bond over a shared appreciation of a male activity. How about gay sex. That tends to have fewer women in it. (Sarcasm for those lacking in subtlety).

So what you're saying is that people in gangs are incapable of being good people? What a bigger load of hogwash.

Of course that's a load of hogwash. That's because it's something I didn't say.

Gangs are not solely evil things,

Good that I didn't talk about the nature of gangs.

I remember listening to a former gang member come to my school as a kid talking about how it helped him before he left it behind him and that everyone should have the experience of having a support group, peers, superiors, friends, and second family all rolled into one that you can find anytime you need them and for it not to be in any way involved with school.

I'm sure that it was. That's nothing to do with ANYTHING I said. It's an interesting anectdote, and would make a great post, directed at someone who actually said what you thought I said.

There's a load of sexist drivel spewed on this site day-in, day-out(towards both men and women whether you believe it or not).

Yeah. The OP for instance. Which I slammed. And the response I recieved. Which I slammed. And my biggest problem with those, believe it or not, is not how it affects women, but men. So shove it. READ MY POSTS.

Is it really so hard to ask that ONCE a topic that's specifically about sons and father-figures(read the op and not just the title people that keep trying to make this into an attack on non-traditional families.) not devolve into the sexism debate?

I can't roll my eyes enough. I included my own advice. With the caveat that I don't think there's much you need to be a good man that you don't need to be a good PERSON. And I included advice on that. I also quoted someone else's advice.

OT, Gaming, Featured Content, News Room, R&P, hell, even the ADVICE FORUM. I'd bet something around 70% of the topics turn into sexism debates and it really needs to stop. And it is nearly always the same people that start it.

Oh please, I know what you get up to. Don't make vague insinuations about me. The OP said things that deserved recognition and response. Just because you're happy with deliberately ignoring things doesn't mean the rest of us are, and I'm not going to stop thinking or saying what I mean just because it offends you.

Is it really that hard to ask that people calm down and let it exist

I didn't say it shouldn't exist. Need I remind you that I gave my own advice, and also recommended someone else's?

the same as any "recommend me an anime" thread that happen at least once a week.(seeing as I've seen people here complain that it's a sexist medium simply for the fact that it is produced in Japan, don't ask me to explain it, I don't understand it either.)

Good thing I didn't say that, and have never said that, and also read, and enjoy, and utilize those threads.

Apparently it is.

Such melodrama. Very wow. 0/10 for concept. 8/10 for delivery. If I had the casting power, I'd try to get you an audition with a soap. Alas, I do not, so I'll ask that you read my damn posts before quoting me.

 

[Loonyyy]

We'll go bond over a shared appreciation of a male activity. How about gay sex. That tends to have fewer women in it. (Sarcasm for those lacking in subtlety).

It's not all that far off from many activities in history, but I feel that'll be lost on such posters. The likes of the Sacred Band of Thebes and male initiations in New Guinea of boys performing oral sex on grown men to consume their semen and thus absorb their manliness all revolve around the balance of masculinity staving off effeminacy while being completely homosexual, with plenty of other more minor activities laced through warrior and military cultural being homoerotic.

It's what I find ultimately funny about the modern gay movement and their innate prejudice that gay = effeminate. It always makes me giggle when they look on Ancient Greece as a hallmark of gay tolerance when their whole focus on being as manly as possible to the point where they felt the less time spent around women the better, lest it soften them.

Bring a pack of them in a time travel machine and you'd find them being disgusted as much as the anti-homosexual movement today, only for tolerating such effeminacy and would no doubt look on whole culture, hetero and homo as being "queer and sissy".

I'm decidedly unimpressed when advice about being a man ignores that sex with women is nothing to do with that, and romantic pairing with women even less. And that all these traditional chauvinists who care so much about men don't spare an ounce of a thought for the most vulnerable men, whilst complaining that I am the one censoring their precious jocky circle-jerk.

And the perception that gay people are effiminate is television and confirmation bias. That's not to say that there aren't these people, or a lot of them, that's to say that it's a convenient stereotype. There's a lot more people attracted to the same sex around you than you think, it's just that not all the men are effeminate sassy accessories to women, and not all the women are overweight shaven headed flannel-wearers. If that's what you look for, that's what you'll find. Hence my use of the term "bloke".

-snip-

I'm convinced that in the puerile mess of this thread, your continuing involvement is pretty awesome, and your advice is worth 20 of the conservative knee-jerk mens men, toxic crap that's being suggested. I'd quote a whole bunch of your posts to say how much I agree with things you've said, but that would be clogging up the forum and super creepy. Good on you.

Men's advice: Don't listen to anyone who wants to tell you how to be a man, or some essential guidance you need. They probably don't have it. (And ironically, that includes me).

 

[the December King]

I guess, all things being equal, I'd suggest trying to be understanding, grateful and patient with the parent that stayed. Try to see the burden that they have taken on, raising a child without a partner, and try to make it bearable for them.

 

[Ilovechocolatemilk]

I'll make this post based on my own experiences and from what I've observed in some of my friends who grew up without fathers. The biggest thing to learn is respect for authority. A lot of guys I know who grow up without fathers have an inherent distrust of authority. I think it's because many of us grew up without seeing what a good, respectable authority figure looks like. This WILL hold you back when you are trying to go to college, get a job, etc.

Another thing is dating. Personally, I grew up in a family where my sisters and even my mom would say a lot of things that would get under my skin. Sometimes, they weren't even intending it, like when they would speak candidly about what kind of men they found ugly. They also excluded me from everything, which is probably why I grew up playing video games. Similarly, my friends who grew up with single mothers either seemed to be deeply insecure or overbearingly macho, another sign of insecurity.

The women I know who grew up without fathers tend to be less stable. Not all of them, but more often than not. Even in my own family, my older sister is extremely mature and well-adjusted while my younger sister could not find a stable boyfriend for a long time. She'd hop from guy to guy every month, not knowing if she loved them or not. Some girls I've known, especially the ones who dressed in a weird way or who dyed their hair a weird color, behaved in much the same way. They'd go from guy to guy, always being unhappy, never knowing what they want.

Take these observations as you will. I know there are people who are claiming that this thread is misogynistic, but statistics (and logic) show that kids who grow up in single parent households are less upwardly mobile than kids who grow up in two parent households. I don't have the statistics on-hand, but the vast, vast majority of college students, especially in ivy leagues, come from two parent households. It is the most homogenizing factor, above race, economic class, and gender.

 

[Queen Michael]

If you grow up without a father or a abusive father

I didn't grow up without an abusive father. I very much wish I had, though.

Also, one thing my dad never got around to teaching me is this: Always eat yellow snow unless you're completely certain it's not beer. Otherwise you might miss free beer.

 

[rosac]

EDIT: Well this thread took one hell of a unexpected turn...

I expected this thread to go mad, but not as quickly as this!

Both my parents are together, so I'm not realllly sure what to say about this, other than that I know my father was (and still is!) a huge influence on me.

 

[Ilovechocolatemilk]

-snip-

I agree with most of this, but not all. A lot of people I know from single parent households have a lot of piss and vinegar in them that they carry with them into young adulthood. Anger and resentment is not something to be embraced. Sure, it helps you in the short run get over the motivation hump, but in the long run, it burns out your friendships and eventually burns you out or turns you into a bitter person.

Hate to sound all new-age hippy, but the world isn't against you and believing that can actually hurt your prospects. I mean, fuck, I failed out of school and dropped off the radar for a while to do some minimum waging, and it was all because I thought the world was against me. I nursed my self-pity and it fueled my anger. It's no way to live life.

I do agree with your whole making life better for your kids though.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Please show me where he said choosing to follow them means they're overly attached.

It's in the first post I quoted.

Hint: He never specified what behavior qualified as overly attached. You're assuming it.

True, it was an inference based on the tone. I'd be happy to be corrected by erttheking if that's not what he intended.

In other words it is NOT in the first post you quoted since it was something you assumed.


Also an inference based on *tone* on the internet? You've got to be kidding me.

Why not try one based on context. Like, say, that his issue is with society pushing gender roles on people since that is often something people complain about and thete are notable examples of people who would try to spread them to kids in this thread. But naaah lets base it off 'tone' that'll mostly be an assumption in and of itself. An assumption based on an assumption has *got* to be even better

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

I can't comment personally, I had my father around and thankfully he was a great guy. I also lived in a non-traditional family (in the 80s/90s a female breadwinner and a male menial job (waiter/bartender/cook) was "non-traditional"). Yeah, read into how I phrased that all you want, I don't mind I just want to express how I grew up with a whole different pair of perspective goggles than most people.

However, apparently I have a high power of perception/observation and noticed a lot of traits of my age-group kids (especially males) and how they acted in respect to their family dynamics. Growing up in a small town, you generally get to know almost everyone around you eventually unless you never venture outside your home. So seeing kids outside of school at the grocery store with their parent(s) or lack thereof, being out and about on your own in later years and venturing to different neighborhoods in a small area... well you pretty much get to know other families whether you really want to or not if you're like me and can't turn off the informational sponge that is your brain picking through sensory inputs and putting them together.

Of my observations, I can say that a fair amount of the troubled male kids I knew either had shitty fathers or totally absentee fathers. But not all. Some were less outwardly troubled and didn't exhibit violent tendencies like the first group, but were inwardly tortured in some way (self-esteem issues). See I had concentration issues and in the 80s US Elementary educational system that basically equated to some form of ADD and thus you had a learning disability. So you get stuck in ESE (special education) classes with a jumble of kids with "issues". So I got to meet just about every archetype of male-without-a-father.

As I said some were troublesome little shits (which ended up growing into criminally troublesome punks and adults, pretty well terminally so), some were horribly trashed emotionally. Some because of an overcompensating mother, alcoholic mother, mother who didn't give two shits or had abusive boyfriends, or a combination of all previous things. Also pretty much any of the previous could be genderswapped for a missing mother and still have had similar results, again from experienced observation. There were a few, a small few, who turned out decent, at least from what I know. But from what I could tell, missing a parent definitely affects a child somehow. The problem is one can't tell how it will affect the kid because one has to also factor in the dynamic of the parent left behind to care for the kid. How are they as people? Do they have familial aid in raising the kid or are they completely alone? Is the parent left behind dealing with their own issues of self-esteem, addiction? Basically what the pressures the kid faces at home are what end up molding the kid as they grow up.

Yes there is a bit of self-determination added in, but from my own perspective of personal issues, self-determination is tough when one has to deal with the mind rebelling against forward progress of the self. I'm not saying children don't have any agency on how they grow up or to determine what kind of person they will become, but parents and homelife are often the default setting kids see growing up as how to face the world, even if the home default is known by the kid to be wrong, the adult analog of said child can still end up defaulting to the setting they grew up seeing. It takes a lot of will and determination to go against what one grows up around, not everyone has that.

So my advice to anyone who grows up sans any parent? Don't ever be too proud to admit that you need help or to accept it if it is given. Honestly thats one of the biggest issues I've seen from people who grew up in one-parent households. Other than that, if your homelife as a kid was shit, let it go and move on with your present life. If that isn't an easy task (and trust me it isn't) don't be afraid or too proud to seek help doing so. Other than that? Not a damn thing.

I do want to note that I did see some kids grow up sans a parent and turn out fine, maybe they were slow starters but they turned out to be ultimately good folks. So nothing is universal, no set of circumstances locks a future in stone.

*shrug* Thats all I have to say about that.