Let's Stop Pretending E3 Is A Professional Event

[Darkness665]

Good read Dennis.

Kuchera did a piece for Penny Arcade Report that, no doubt you already saw, that explained the reality to us non-journalists. Your's is a good addition.

I am constantly amazed at how bad the actual industry is. There are so many wonderful things out there, including shooters and Miracle of Sound's Shooter Guy, it makes me think this is a direct result of suits and marketing think. Booth babes seem to be a constant where ever marketing types interact with the public. I recall them from auto shows, electronic industry shows and from coverage of arms shows as well.

Hmm, maybe it isn't JUST the gaming industry after all.

 

[ResonanceSD]

"http://kotaku.com/5916237/e3-makes-me-really-appreciate-the-pax-ban-on-booth-babes"

E3 Makes Me Really Appreciate the PAX Ban on Booth Babes


It's a great read, in case you missed it.

 

[Yopaz]

Your only concern here seemed to be about booth babes. Why that should make it any less professional than a motor show which is known for the same marketing technique I can't even begin to grasp. I am equally interested in the new Mustang as I am in the preview of an upcoming game, but I still don't see booth babes as the worst thing ever. It's good marketing, it's solid, it works. I don't see why the gaming industry is unprofessional when the car industry is almost expected to do it.

My concern when it comes to the if the game industry is acting professional or not is more about how they act when they are hosting their shows. They might think they are doing a role where they actually have some quality acting, but I doubt even they are convinced. They have even prepared "natural" conversations where the reactions they are supposed to have are missed by miles. They are either overacting or underacting. Both are terrible. EA deserves some praise for presenting their sports games along with actual names in sports and I actually thought their show was among the better ones, even though few of the games actually spiked my interest.

The game industry is trying to build its reputation by using the clichés of other industries. Had they actually done a good job I wouldn't have held it against them.

 

[Yopaz]

I agree with your point, but did we have to make that guy a poster boy for this whole situation? I don't know anything about him, but I can guarantee that the small amount of confidence this guy had is now destroyed forever.
Good point, the culture definitely needs to change, but let's not use bullying to make it happen.

The man and woman kissing in the V-J Day picture probably didn't intend to be creating an iconic image that would ring throughout the remainder of American history, but some pictures speak a thousand words and that's why we look at them.

The picture of that kid brazenly snapping a shot of those booth babes so perfectly represents why it's silly to call E3 an "industry event." GDC is an industry event. The D.I.C.E. Summit is an industry event. Neither of those events are going to generate a picture of a kid brazenly snapping a photo of two booth babes because to the best of my knowledge and experience there ARE no booth babes. That's part of what makes it pretty clear that they are "industry events" attended by professionals.

Had I spent the entirety of the column berating the kid in that picture, I would have to cop to a charge of bullying. As it stands, I think you've used the word inappropriately at best, and at worst the charge can be seen as trying to create sympathy for someone engaged in blatantly sexist activity which I have no issue pointing out.

Pro tip: if someone calls you out for doing something and you don't think you did anything wrong, you don't feel bad when someone calls you out for it. Should that kid become aware of this conversation and feel ashamed for being caught in that picture, and never ogles a woman like that so obviously again, I can't say I'm going to feel badly about it. There's a place for that sort of thing, and it's called a strip club.

You honestly don't see anything wrong with spreading a picture of a kid who's obviously a little awkward as it is around? Now we can see from the picture that he most likely doesn't have a way with women. I will guess he's shy and maybe introverted. He enjoys the booth babes and is there any reason he shouldn't?

Now this entire article is about how terrible it is that the gaming industry uses booth babes and how stupid it is to believe that we are interested it. Posting this picture wont make him become a better person. If he finds out or anyone he knows finds out it will probably make him more introverted.

Now what is the problem with people like this guy. It gives gamers a bad name... Really, if anyone is so insecure about their gaming hobby that they feel they need to humiliate any gamer who "gives gamers a bad reputation" then I don't know what to say. I like games and I know there are people out there who aren't like me at all. There are Atheists out there with different opinions than me and that are so intolerant that I want to punch them. I am still an Atheist and I have no need to humiliate anyone who "gives Atheists a bad name". I am secure and confident in my opinions, thus I can live with people sharing them and at the same time being awkward about it. I am also fairly certain that the picture was shared without his consent.

Still think there's nothing wrong with sharing that picture?

 

[Alexnader]

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You honestly don't see anything wrong with spreading a picture of a kid who's obviously a little awkward as it is around? Now we can see from the picture that he most likely doesn't have a way with women. I will guess he's shy and maybe introverted. He enjoys the booth babes and is there any reason he shouldn't?

Now this entire article is about how terrible it is that the gaming industry uses booth babes and how stupid it is to believe that we are interested it. Posting this picture wont make him become a better person. If he finds out or anyone he knows finds out it will probably make him more introverted.

Now what is the problem with people like this guy. It gives gamers a bad name... Really, if anyone is so insecure about their gaming hobby that they feel they need to humiliate any gamer who "gives gamers a bad reputation" then I don't know what to say. I like games and I know there are people out there who aren't like me at all. There are Atheists out there with different opinions than me and that are so intolerant that I want to punch them. I am still an Atheist and I have no need to humiliate anyone who "gives Atheists a bad name". I am secure and confident in my opinions, thus I can live with people sharing them and at the same time being awkward about it. I am also fairly certain that the picture was shared without his consent.

Still think there's nothing wrong with sharing that picture?

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if Dennis was a little insecure about gaming, I certainly am. It's only recently that gaming isn't universally perceived by the mass media as something for reclusive shut ins and nerds.

I never got the vibe that the author was targeting that person who took the photo, that image just happens to represent what having booth babes at E3 does do the credibility of "mature gamers". It's not a matter of "this guy gives gaming a bad name", it's that E3 is giving gaming a bad name by creating scenarios like this in the first place.

That picture has hit twitter, it's hit reddit (front page or r/gaming which means views above 10,000), it's out there. Using it one more time in an article on the escapist does not constitute bullying. Yeah, it sucks to be that guy, however that's how the internet works now. Annoying facebook girl didn't want to be annoying facebook girl but here we are.

 

[getoffmycloud]

There is nothing wrong with booth babes at all and video games aren't the only thing that seems to have them for the sex sells thing. Just look at motorsport, every major motorsport event in the world has grid girls, every car show has booth babes handing out promotional materials, I even went to one motor show where you could drive the cars and the people organising that were all barely covered women and nobody really cared it just doesn't matter at all this is just another example of gamers trying to act mature and missing the point completely.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Getting paid to stand in one spot because you happen to posses the physical traits currently deemed attractive by the culture around you? I'd take that any day over, like, actually working. Even for a shit wage. Sign me up for being eye candy! Maybe I can go to strip club after and let people throw their hard earned wages at me for showing a little bit of skin tissue.

 

[Dogstile]

gratuitous boobs in Far Cry 3

Wasn't it only like a two second clip?

OT: Booth babes piss me off purely because I know they're marketed directly at me like they assume all I want to do is gawk and drool over them which is quite frankly, offensive (Never thought i'd argue that offensive is bad, huh, funny that).

Aside from that I don't even think its that effective, as when saints row was being promoted I went straight past the catgirls and went straight to the dude dressed as genki for a picture. Its a bit more memorable than "Look guys, I got a picture with girl 139!".

 

[VoidWanderer]

Poor guy. That was probably the first time he had the opportunity to take pictures of women without risking arrest.

With his tongue literally in his cheek, I figured he is trying to keep a firm grip on his phone.

 

[BeerTent]

Here's your poster!! Hope you like it, Dennis!

 

[Yopaz]

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You honestly don't see anything wrong with spreading a picture of a kid who's obviously a little awkward as it is around? Now we can see from the picture that he most likely doesn't have a way with women. I will guess he's shy and maybe introverted. He enjoys the booth babes and is there any reason he shouldn't?

Now this entire article is about how terrible it is that the gaming industry uses booth babes and how stupid it is to believe that we are interested it. Posting this picture wont make him become a better person. If he finds out or anyone he knows finds out it will probably make him more introverted.

Now what is the problem with people like this guy. It gives gamers a bad name... Really, if anyone is so insecure about their gaming hobby that they feel they need to humiliate any gamer who "gives gamers a bad reputation" then I don't know what to say. I like games and I know there are people out there who aren't like me at all. There are Atheists out there with different opinions than me and that are so intolerant that I want to punch them. I am still an Atheist and I have no need to humiliate anyone who "gives Atheists a bad name". I am secure and confident in my opinions, thus I can live with people sharing them and at the same time being awkward about it. I am also fairly certain that the picture was shared without his consent.

Still think there's nothing wrong with sharing that picture?

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if Dennis was a little insecure about gaming, I certainly am. It's only recently that gaming isn't universally perceived by the mass media as something for reclusive shut ins and nerds.

I never got the vibe that the author was targeting that person who took the photo, that image just happens to represent what having booth babes at E3 does do the credibility of "mature gamers". It's not a matter of "this guy gives gaming a bad name", it's that E3 is giving gaming a bad name by creating scenarios like this in the first place.

That picture has hit twitter, it's hit reddit (front page or r/gaming which means views above 10,000), it's out there. Using it one more time in an article on the escapist does not constitute bullying. Yeah, it sucks to be that guy, however that's how the internet works now. Annoying facebook girl didn't want to be annoying facebook girl but here we are.

Well, he's insecure about his hobby because of the way some people think of him because of this. Is a bully who bullies smaller kids less of a bully just because he does it because he's insecure because his parents are getting a divorce? Is he any less a bully because he picks on a kid who already got problems of his own?

Now you think this article isn't about the the picture of the guy taking a picture. That makes me wonder if we read the same article or not. It pretty much says how terrible the booth babes make and that we're better than the guy in the picture. The article even encourages people to make a meme from it.

So he's embarrassed over his hobby because people make the connection from that awkward guy to people like him. Now that awkward guy is awkward and probably a little introverted. He seemingly got problems in social situations. Then this glorious writer makes an article where he ridicules him more than he's already been. This is a guy who pretends to be mature and shows us that gamers aren't interested in booth babes. We are more interested in bullying people who hurts our reputation. He even encourages us all to bully those who give us a bad reputation. While he may be taking a swing at the stereotype at gamers and interest in scantily clad women he increases the stereotype of gamers being bullies and this does our reputation no good. I would more willing to be grouped with the guy drooling over the hot chicks than the guy attacking the awkward kid.

Oh, but it's not so bad because it's already hit Twitter and Reddit! That clearly makes it OK to violate someone's rights. It is in fact illegal to use someone's picture without their consent and just because "everyone else did it" that stays the same. This also increases the number of people who sees it. I never ever go near Twitter and rarely Reddit.

So to sum up your views from what I can see from what you're posting:
It's more mature to bully someone than to gawk at women.
It's OK to bully someone if they make you feel insecure about yourself.
It's OK to bully someone because that's how the internet works.
It's OK to use someone's picture without their consent because that's how the internet works.

 

[Danzavare]

That reminds me of my last convention. I was with my little brother and both of us were extremely excited to see the Child of Eden Kinect area free. He ran up to it and I followed. We were immediately drawn by the pretty colours and the previews we saw of the game. He started playing and two booth babes tried to explain it to him but couldn't quite get their head around the game. I explained it (I read enough to know) to my brother and them. One of the two started telling me that they were only introduced to the game (and by the sounds of it, gaming) that morning and were just told to stand around all day.

It's awkward. I was interested in and drawn to the game, as was my brother, yet here were two ladies in short tight shorts and shirts clearly in a very uncomfortable place. They don't know gaming and if they did, I'm sure that's not the costumes they'd wear to the convention. I don't gawk (I have manners) and I don't feel uncomfortable around women (Pretty females aren't a rarity) but I couldn't help but feel embarrassed for being part of a place where that kind of shallow pandering is the 'appropriate' way of drawing people. In the normal world we would've spoken like people and I would've thought nothing of it, in the perverse world of the convention, she was bait and I felt like a creep just for being a male gamer.

I'm not a sexually repressed desperate tween and I take offense to being treated as such. I felt sorry for the woman and wished her luck dealing with the rest of the day. By the end of the day I refused to buy from stalls/booths that used women like that (Scoffing at one particular jerk who had his 'friend' in a succubus outfit, she did not look very happy either).

I find it absolutely mindboggling to see all the recent hate for booth babes. They're just doing their job, goddamn. :/

I, for one, thoroughly enjoy ogling a nice set of boobies whilst checking out the latest games.

As for "a place and time for such things", do you also think it should be forbidden for women to dress skimpily just because they WANT to? 'Cause lord forbid if the little kids see them~!

Are you being sarcastic or do you honestly mean to imply that women desire to put on skimpy outfits, stand all day in a hot crowded room and be ogled by less than desirable men? (To put it politely) Dammit man, most mobile phones have internet connectivity, if you're that desperate for breasts google search them. If that's not good enough, commit and go to a strip club.

I don't think anyone has a problem with the booth babes as people, it's the shameless way they're used, what that says about the people who go to conventions and the discomfort caused by the mix of the two.

So yes, there are much better and more appropriate times and places for these things.

 

[Danzavare]

Are you being sarcastic or do you honestly mean to imply that women desire to put on skimpy outfits, stand all day in a hot crowded room and be ogled by less than desirable men? (To put it politely) Dammit man, most mobile phones have internet connectivity, if you're that desperate for breasts google search them. If that's not good enough, commit and go to a strip club.

I don't think anyone has a problem with the booth babes as people, it's the shameless way they're used, what that says about the people who go to conventions and the discomfort caused by the mix of the two.

So yes, there are much better and more appropriate times and places for these things.

I'm not saying that all women want to do that, but there are certainly plenty of highly attractive women who have no problem using their looks to earn their money. Just because you haven't met them personally, does not mean they do not exist.

Hell, look at the crapton of women on the internet who are part-time camgirls just to earn a little extra cash.

But there's a difference between wanting money and wanting to do the act. I can imagine people willing to do the job (After all, booth babes do exist) but I can hardly imagine many genuinely enjoying the job. I just don't think we'd be destroying any dream jobs by removing booth babes.

 

[Draconalis]

Mang, did you see the A on dem chicks? Hawyt.

Edit:

There's a place for that sort of thing, and it's called a strip club.

A lot of game devs need to read this line.

I'd play that game.

Edit x2:

So... my original comment was meant to be tongue in cheek... but I noticed something and I feel I should get serious.

There are three chicks in the above picture.

 

[ResonanceSD]

I find it absolutely mindboggling to see all the recent hate for booth babes. They're just doing their job, goddamn. :/

I, for one, thoroughly enjoy ogling a nice set of boobies whilst checking out the latest games.

As for "a place and time for such things", do you also think it should be forbidden for women to dress skimpily just because they WANT to? 'Cause lord forbid if the little kids see them~!

That's not the primary concern of the article, and you're just being ridiculous in trying to make it so.

Is the industry's main aim here to say "sure! women can be a part of gaming too! now stand there, wear your fetish outfit and look pretty"? Because that's sure what it looks like.

So how do you find MW3 by the way?

 

[Mr.Pandah]

But there's a difference between wanting money and wanting to do the act. I can imagine people willing to do the job (After all, booth babes do exist) but I can hardly imagine many genuinely enjoying the job. I just don't think we'd be destroying any dream jobs by removing booth babes.

If it was purely for the money, there's most-likely tons of other jobs that require good looks and probably aren't quite as centre-of-attention as being a booth babe.
My point is that many of these women know that they're attractive and can make a nice couple of bucks flaunting what they have. They've made the concious decision to parade around as eyecandy. More power to them for being confident, to be honest. Lord knows I'd be too much of a pussy.

^^ Haha I agree with everything you've said so far.

I agree with your point, but did we have to make that guy a poster boy for this whole situation? I don't know anything about him, but I can guarantee that the small amount of confidence this guy had is now destroyed forever.
Good point, the culture definitely needs to change, but let's not use bullying to make it happen.

The man and woman kissing in the V-J Day picture probably didn't intend to be creating an iconic image that would ring throughout the remainder of American history, but some pictures speak a thousand words and that's why we look at them.

The picture of that kid brazenly snapping a shot of those booth babes so perfectly represents why it's silly to call E3 an "industry event." GDC is an industry event. The D.I.C.E. Summit is an industry event. Neither of those events are going to generate a picture of a kid brazenly snapping a photo of two booth babes because to the best of my knowledge and experience there ARE no booth babes. That's part of what makes it pretty clear that they are "industry events" attended by professionals.

Had I spent the entirety of the column berating the kid in that picture, I would have to cop to a charge of bullying. As it stands, I think you've used the word inappropriately at best, and at worst the charge can be seen as trying to create sympathy for someone engaged in blatantly sexist activity which I have no issue pointing out.

Pro tip: if someone calls you out for doing something and you don't think you did anything wrong, you don't feel bad when someone calls you out for it. Should that kid become aware of this conversation and feel ashamed for being caught in that picture, and never ogles a woman like that so obviously again, I can't say I'm going to feel badly about it. There's a place for that sort of thing, and it's called a strip club.

You honestly don't see anything wrong with spreading a picture of a kid who's obviously a little awkward as it is around? Now we can see from the picture that he most likely doesn't have a way with women. I will guess he's shy and maybe introverted. He enjoys the booth babes and is there any reason he shouldn't?

Now this entire article is about how terrible it is that the gaming industry uses booth babes and how stupid it is to believe that we are interested it. Posting this picture wont make him become a better person. If he finds out or anyone he knows finds out it will probably make him more introverted.

Now what is the problem with people like this guy. It gives gamers a bad name... Really, if anyone is so insecure about their gaming hobby that they feel they need to humiliate any gamer who "gives gamers a bad reputation" then I don't know what to say. I like games and I know there are people out there who aren't like me at all. There are Atheists out there with different opinions than me and that are so intolerant that I want to punch them. I am still an Atheist and I have no need to humiliate anyone who "gives Atheists a bad name". I am secure and confident in my opinions, thus I can live with people sharing them and at the same time being awkward about it. I am also fairly certain that the picture was shared without his consent.

Still think there's nothing wrong with sharing that picture?

And I also agree with yours. Poor guy, I'd be in the same spot given the chance. Whose taking pictures of other people taking pictures anyways? INCEPTION.

 

[Danzavare]

But there's a difference between wanting money and wanting to do the act. I can imagine people willing to do the job (After all, booth babes do exist) but I can hardly imagine many genuinely enjoying the job. I just don't think we'd be destroying any dream jobs by removing booth babes.

If it was purely for the money, there's most-likely tons of other jobs that require good looks and probably aren't quite as centre-of-attention as being a booth babe.
My point is that many of these women know that they're attractive and can make a nice couple of bucks flaunting what they have. They've made the concious decision to parade around as eyecandy. More power to them for being confident, to be honest. Lord knows I'd be too much of a pussy.

Eh, assuming it pays well enough most people would probably suffer for a few days to earn some good bucks. In any case, my point is that by removing these jobs I really don't think we're depriving anyone so your initial argument doesn't justify keeping booth babes. Having them there does more bad than good.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Wait what ... did you just say that an event that lets the public in is an industry event?

E3 isn't about either games OR booth babes. It's about ... wait for it ... waiting in line for hours for some half-baked speeches.

 

[Dennis Scimeca]

Still think there's nothing wrong with sharing that picture?

Yes.

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if Dennis was a little insecure about gaming, I certainly am.

Not at all, nor should you be. I honestly believe we're approaching a point where it's more weird not to know about or play games than it is to play them.

Concern about the perception of gaming is about whether or not we have diverse representation among our developers. It's about whether or not we encourage creatives to join the industry and expand the boundaries of our art because they understand video games are a legitimate medium. It's about what people *who aren't gamers* think about games, because some of them are people we want on our side, and alienating them is stupid.

I was at a conference yesterday where I heard from someone in the White House who works on video game policy. That position exists *because* video games have been accepted as a legitimate medium by the administration. That's a good thing. Hence my concern about perpetuating incorrect assumptions about who we are. Those incorrect assumptions are what prevented people from getting interested in video games for decades.

Here's your poster!! Hope you like it, Dennis!

I'm not *entirely* sure I understand the joke, but I laughed out loud in the lounge at the conference I was attending yesterday when I saw that.

 

[Yopaz]

Still think there's nothing wrong with sharing that picture?

Yes.

So nothing wrong with bullying someone who hasn't done anything to you? Nothing wrong with violating a law (yes there are laws against this) about sharing this without his consent?

Thanks for the moral lesson. Now I know that bullying awkward people on the internet is cool and that laws aren't valid on the internet.

Although one last question. If you're not insecure about you4r hobby, why do you have the need to humiliate someone like this? You pretend to be better than him, but you're acting like a bully here. If that's your impression of being mature then I wish you luck with that stance.