Let's talk about Anime!

[Casual Shinji]

I don't understand Japanese. For example I watch Ghibli movies (and Disney or Dreamworks or so on) in my native Finnish.

Which is why there's subtitles. And you can obviously read english so...

Not that this means you should therefor watch it with (english) subtitles, but seeing as this is a possiblity within your reach but you choose not go for it, it means you do care what language it is dubbed in. Just as other people might care for it NOT to be dubbed. But people do certainly care.

Also, if the majority cast ain't Japanese or don't take place in Japan, like say in Gunsmith Cats (mids 90s Chicago), Hellsing (England), or Berserk (Western Fantasy setting) it makes even less since. I highly doubt a majority of non-Japanese people want to hear the entire population of Chicago speak Japanese.

I've heard this complaint before, but I assume those very same people that make it have no problem with anime that takes place in Japan being dubbed in English eventhough it makes little sense as well. That and the whole slew of American and British (period) movies that take place in non-english speaking countries where everyone inexplicably speaks english. Whether or not it makes sense only seems to be an issue when it's the other way around.

 

[BrawlMan]

I bought Hellsing Ultimate, FLCL, FLCL: Progressive, and FLCL: Alternative earlier today at my local Best Buy. I've seen them all before except for Alternative. I might watch that tonight,

 

[BrawlMan]

I don't understand Japanese. For example I watch Ghibli movies (and Disney or Dreamworks or so on) in my native Finnish.

Which is why there's subtitles. And you can obviously read english so...

Not that this means you should therefor watch it with (english) subtitles, but seeing as this is a possiblity within your reach but you choose not go for it, it means you do care what language it is dubbed in. Just as other people might care for it NOT to be dubbed. But people do certainly care.

Also, if the majority cast ain't Japanese or don't take place in Japan, like say in Gunsmith Cats (mids 90s Chicago), Hellsing (England), or Berserk (Western Fantasy setting) it makes even less since. I highly doubt a majority of non-Japanese people want to hear the entire population of Chicago speak Japanese.

I've heard this complaint before, but I assume those very same people that make it have no problem with anime that takes place in Japan being dubbed in English eventhough it makes little sense as well. That and the whole slew of American and British (period) movies that take place in non-english speaking countries where everyone inexplicably speaks english. Whether or not it makes sense only seems to be an issue when it's the other way around.

While you have some points it's just a complaint that irks me from sub-only fans. Most sub-only fans don't bother to study or learn Japanese, outside a few phrases and words here and there. Yet, they get mad for someone daring to watch a dub of a show. It's stupid elitism, and petty. They seem to forget that are plenty of dubs better than their Japanese counterparts. The only time I watch a sub if it's the old Fist of the Northstar show, sometimes Jojo if want to here the ORAs or MUDAs, or if a anime's dub is so atrocious and bad, sub is the only option. Otherwise, I prefer dubs all the way,yet I can get that across without insulting other or acting like a know-it-all.

 

[SupahEwok]

I watched a review of Beastars and it just might be that one in a million anime I'll actually want to watch. When the English dub comes out, that is. inb4 "Japanese better", cartoons aren't real people (or beast-people in this case) nobody cares what language you dub them in

Well, you obviously care since you're waiting for the english dub.

I don't understand Japanese. For example I watch Ghibli movies (and Disney or Dreamworks or so on) in my native Finnish.

I don't understand Japanese either but I wouldn't watch anime in English or my native Spanish (which invariably means having to pick between the horrible Mexican dub or the douby horrible Spain!Spanish dub). This isn't an anime "thing" either, I just think dubbing in general takes away from the original thing. To each their own but the "nobody cares what language you dub them in" is dead wrong.

I don't get how it takes away from the original. If you're reliant on subtitles, you've lost complexity in translation anyway. Until you've watched hundreds of hours of anime and pieced together certain words and phrases with their translation, you're not going to be able to understand the subtlety and inflection of tone which modify the intended meaning of particular words anyway.

 

[SupahEwok]

I haven't watched any new anime in a year, but I've recently been recommended Space Battleship Yamato and will try to dig that up to watch with spring break.

 

[McElroy]

I don't understand Japanese either but I wouldn't watch anime in English or my native Spanish (which invariably means having to pick between the horrible Mexican dub or the douby horrible Spain!Spanish dub). This isn't an anime "thing" either, I just think dubbing in general takes away from the original thing. To each their own but the "nobody cares what language you dub them in" is dead wrong.

It's already dubbed.

Dubbed over the original audio, mein herr.

I don't understand Japanese. For example I watch Ghibli movies (and Disney or Dreamworks or so on) in my native Finnish.

Which is why there's subtitles. And you can obviously read english so...

Not that this means you should therefor watch it with (english) subtitles, but seeing as this is a possiblity within your reach but you choose not go for it, it means you do care what language it is dubbed in. Just as other people might care for it NOT to be dubbed. But people do certainly care.

Animated media is almost always (yes, I know performances can be mo-capped) dubbed no matter what. Both the original and the other dubs are based on a screenplay. Sure, the original might have the best direction, but how would I know if I'm just reading it!

Also a fun fact to demonstrate why the language can indeed not matter at all: Ofra Haza voiced her character in a song in the Prince of Egypt in 18 different dubs (including Finnish without having the foggiest about what the words meant).

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I watched a review of Beastars and it just might be that one in a million anime I'll actually want to watch. When the English dub comes out, that is. inb4 "Japanese better", cartoons aren't real people (or beast-people in this case) nobody cares what language you dub them in

Well, you obviously care since you're waiting for the english dub.

I don't understand Japanese. For example I watch Ghibli movies (and Disney or Dreamworks or so on) in my native Finnish.

I don't understand Japanese either but I wouldn't watch anime in English or my native Spanish (which invariably means having to pick between the horrible Mexican dub or the douby horrible Spain!Spanish dub). This isn't an anime "thing" either, I just think dubbing in general takes away from the original thing. To each their own but the "nobody cares what language you dub them in" is dead wrong.

I don't get how it takes away from the original. If you're reliant on subtitles, you've lost complexity in translation anyway. Until you've watched hundreds of hours of anime and pieced together certain words and phrases with their translation, you're not going to be able to understand the subtlety and inflection of tone which modify the intended meaning of particular words anyway.

In my experience more gets lost in translation because the dub alters the original thing, whereas subtitles go along with it. I'd rather hear the pitch, tone and timbre of the original voices too. Hearing a clearly Japanese cartoon in English or Spanish just takes me away from it. The Spanish dub cartoons in a lifeless, droning monotone that doesn't even attempt to capture the emotion of the character. And the Americans tend to overcompensate to the point everyone sounds like a tryhard (ie. Spike Spiegel).

 

[BrawlMan]

I finished FLCL: Alternative and it's definitely better than Progressive. Most of the cast were forgettable, and the main character in the latter I found uninteresting. Alternative has a better cast of characters with personality. The 4 main girls are more interesting than Hidomi from Progressive. Haruko is actually nicer in Alternative than she was in the original and second series. This might scream character derailment if you never saw Progressive, but it's clear Alternative takes place after both series.

Spoiler: Progressive Spoilers

She split herself in two making a good half and evil half. She later tried forcibly get rid of her good half by eating her, which didn't work. And at the end of Progressive, the good half comes back and continues to follow Haruko wherever she travels. Alternative implies Haruko absorbed her good half, non-violently this time, and fights for more altruistic reason. Which makes since, she's been doing the same thing for years, and the result have always been the same.

She's a legit good guy now, but she still has her crazy and jerk moments. Kari Walgreen still got it and turns in a wonderful performance.

I think they should stop now, as their not much left that can be done with the FLCL franchise. The original is still the best, but Alternative is a great follow up. Especially compared to Progressive if we're talking anime sequels.

 

[Satinavian]

I don't get how it takes away from the original. If you're reliant on subtitles, you've lost complexity in translation anyway. Until you've watched hundreds of hours of anime and pieced together certain words and phrases with their translation, you're not going to be able to understand the subtlety and inflection of tone which modify the intended meaning of particular words anyway.

But eventually you do pick up certain things that usually are lost in translation.

One example would be honorifics. They always contain information about character relationship that are hard to translate while staying that short. And occasionally the appropriateness of a certain honorific is the topic of the discussion or people change honorifics and other comment it etc. That is always a mess when translated. Not that dubs have it easier here, but when you here the characters use the honorifics is way easier to get what actually happens.

Not that i would always choose subs for that reason. I tend to choose subs because those are more readily available but enjoy both. The main benefit of dubs is that you can pay more attention to the animation.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

And the Americans tend to overcompensate to the point everyone sounds like a tryhard (ie. Spike Spiegel).

 

[SckizoBoy]

Smartest statement in the thread, and sub-only anime fans still have not learned from this. This not the old days where bad or mediocre dubbing were almost the norm. The West has been getting nothing but great dubs since 2009/2010. Not to mentioned in the 90s and early 2000s, there are plenty of good, great, or excellent dubs that already exists. Also, if the majority cast ain't Japanese or don't take place in Japan, like say in Gunsmith Cats (mids 90s Chicago), Hellsing (England), or Berserk (Western Fantasy setting) it makes even less since. I highly doubt a majority of non-Japanese people want to hear the entire population of Chicago speak Japanese. Shit like this why I refused to join the anime club in my first year of college. The club was made up of people who looked down on others for not watching anime in their "original" language. A majority of the people in the club were white, and two, none of them ever bothered to study Japanese last I checked, so they're being pretenders if anything really. Sub-only fans tend forget there are some anime where the English dub came first. Vampire Hunter D Bloodlust is a good example. The FLCL sequels also premiered in America first too before a release in Japan.

I'm English, so this colours my opinion somewhat. I also understand Japanese well enough to watch some series without subtitles. Back in the days of crap English-language dubs, I watched subs, and whenever they came through in English because I didn't understand the Japanese, it'd be in a British accent. So popular release dubs were tremendously jarring because my default for the dialogue in English is an RP/Estuary British accent. This is purely personal preference, but still one of the governing reasons why subs are more popular in the UK than dubs. Ill logic borne from non-Japanese characters speaking Japanese or foreigners speaking surprisingly fluent with inexplicable accents are a point of theatricality for me (e.g. the bombast of the Emperor in Code Geass for just the line 'All Hail Britannia') so I enjoy that for what it is and drop if it gets egregious.

I will say, though, that Vampire Hunter D Bloodlust was one I gladly watched the original English audio for before the Japanese dub (actually, never seen it in Japanese) because of how understated the acting was.

 

[SckizoBoy]

OT: Ishuzoku Reviewers anyone?! -.-

 

[Casual Shinji]

And the Americans tend to overcompensate to the point everyone sounds like a tryhard (ie. Spike Spiegel).

No, he's totally right. Dubbed Spike you can hear the effort in him trying to sound cool, original Spike simply is cool because he sounds lazy and tired most of the time.

OT: Ishuzoku Reviewers anyone?! -.-

You mean the one that has the two loli characters use a dildo on eachother? Yeah, that was uh... eesh Japan.

 

[Saint of M]

Marathoning original Naruto at the moment, got the Sauske retrieval ark.

Some parts haven't aged as well, but still overall good. I am going head first into filler hell though.

 

[BrawlMan]

And the Americans tend to overcompensate to the point everyone sounds like a tryhard (ie. Spike Spiegel).

No, he's totally right. Dubbed Spike you can hear the effort in him trying to sound cool, original Spike simply is cool because he sounds lazy and tired most of the time.

OT: Ishuzoku Reviewers anyone?! -.-

You mean the one that has the two loli characters use a dildo on eachother? Yeah, that was uh... eesh Japan.

I watched a review of Beastars and it just might be that one in a million anime I'll actually want to watch. When the English dub comes out, that is. inb4 "Japanese better", cartoons aren't real people (or beast-people in this case) nobody cares what language you dub them in

Well, you obviously care since you're waiting for the english dub.

I don't understand Japanese. For example I watch Ghibli movies (and Disney or Dreamworks or so on) in my native Finnish.

I don't understand Japanese either but I wouldn't watch anime in English or my native Spanish (which invariably means having to pick between the horrible Mexican dub or the douby horrible Spain!Spanish dub). This isn't an anime "thing" either, I just think dubbing in general takes away from the original thing. To each their own but the "nobody cares what language you dub them in" is dead wrong.

I don't get how it takes away from the original. If you're reliant on subtitles, you've lost complexity in translation anyway. Until you've watched hundreds of hours of anime and pieced together certain words and phrases with their translation, you're not going to be able to understand the subtlety and inflection of tone which modify the intended meaning of particular words anyway.

In my experience more gets lost in translation because the dub alters the original thing, whereas subtitles go along with it. I'd rather hear the pitch, tone and timbre of the original voices too. Hearing a clearly Japanese cartoon in English or Spanish just takes me away from it. The Spanish dub cartoons in a lifeless, droning monotone that doesn't even attempt to capture the emotion of the character. And the Americans tend to overcompensate to the point everyone sounds like a tryhard (ie. Spike Spiegel).

As for Ishuzoku Reviewers, Japan's has already done far worse than that. Whether it be hentai or erotic games. All things considered, IR is tame by comparison. I'm surprised Funimation tried to localize it. This is not Shinometa Funimation! What were you thinking?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I watched a review of Beastars and it just might be that one in a million anime I'll actually want to watch. When the English dub comes out, that is. inb4 "Japanese better", cartoons aren't real people (or beast-people in this case) nobody cares what language you dub them in

Well, you obviously care since you're waiting for the english dub.

I don't understand Japanese. For example I watch Ghibli movies (and Disney or Dreamworks or so on) in my native Finnish.

I don't understand Japanese either but I wouldn't watch anime in English or my native Spanish (which invariably means having to pick between the horrible Mexican dub or the douby horrible Spain!Spanish dub). This isn't an anime "thing" either, I just think dubbing in general takes away from the original thing. To each their own but the "nobody cares what language you dub them in" is dead wrong.

I don't get how it takes away from the original. If you're reliant on subtitles, you've lost complexity in translation anyway. Until you've watched hundreds of hours of anime and pieced together certain words and phrases with their translation, you're not going to be able to understand the subtlety and inflection of tone which modify the intended meaning of particular words anyway.

In my experience more gets lost in translation because the dub alters the original thing, whereas subtitles go along with it. I'd rather hear the pitch, tone and timbre of the original voices too. Hearing a clearly Japanese cartoon in English or Spanish just takes me away from it. The Spanish dub cartoons in a lifeless, droning monotone that doesn't even attempt to capture the emotion of the character. And the Americans tend to overcompensate to the point everyone sounds like a tryhard (ie. Spike Spiegel).

Thank you debate team.
Dubbing defaces the product and is the most intrusive of either option. For every abridgement it also creates a barrier because it's putting somebody else's comprehension between what the director made and what I'm watching. I'd rather have subtitles to go along with the picture. Maybe there's no more reason to trust the translation of subs than that of a dub, but with subs at least you get the original unadulterated thing to go along.

 

[BrawlMan]

I watched a review of Beastars and it just might be that one in a million anime I'll actually want to watch. When the English dub comes out, that is. inb4 "Japanese better", cartoons aren't real people (or beast-people in this case) nobody cares what language you dub them in

Well, you obviously care since you're waiting for the english dub.

I don't understand Japanese. For example I watch Ghibli movies (and Disney or Dreamworks or so on) in my native Finnish.

I don't understand Japanese either but I wouldn't watch anime in English or my native Spanish (which invariably means having to pick between the horrible Mexican dub or the douby horrible Spain!Spanish dub). This isn't an anime "thing" either, I just think dubbing in general takes away from the original thing. To each their own but the "nobody cares what language you dub them in" is dead wrong.

I don't get how it takes away from the original. If you're reliant on subtitles, you've lost complexity in translation anyway. Until you've watched hundreds of hours of anime and pieced together certain words and phrases with their translation, you're not going to be able to understand the subtlety and inflection of tone which modify the intended meaning of particular words anyway.

In my experience more gets lost in translation because the dub alters the original thing, whereas subtitles go along with it. I'd rather hear the pitch, tone and timbre of the original voices too. Hearing a clearly Japanese cartoon in English or Spanish just takes me away from it. The Spanish dub cartoons in a lifeless, droning monotone that doesn't even attempt to capture the emotion of the character. And the Americans tend to overcompensate to the point everyone sounds like a tryhard (ie. Spike Spiegel).

Thank you debate team.
Dubbing defaces the product and is the most intrusive of either option. For every abridgement it also creates a barrier because it's putting somebody else's comprehension between what the director made and what I'm watching. I'd rather have subtitles to go along with the picture. Maybe there's no more reason to trust the translation of subs than that of a dub, but with subs at least you get the original unadulterated thing to go along.

I've heard that argument a million times and it's mostly bullcrap. Unless the setting it's in ancient Japan, modern Japan, future Japan, or a fantasy Asian setting. Or unless you're planning on learning the language. Who the hell cares? You have a minor point about this with dubs back in the day. But in most cases,it's a non-issue that's exaggerated nowadays.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SuperlativeDubbing/EnglishDubsAnimeManga

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I watched a review of Beastars and it just might be that one in a million anime I'll actually want to watch. When the English dub comes out, that is. inb4 "Japanese better", cartoons aren't real people (or beast-people in this case) nobody cares what language you dub them in

Well, you obviously care since you're waiting for the english dub.

I don't understand Japanese. For example I watch Ghibli movies (and Disney or Dreamworks or so on) in my native Finnish.

I don't understand Japanese either but I wouldn't watch anime in English or my native Spanish (which invariably means having to pick between the horrible Mexican dub or the douby horrible Spain!Spanish dub). This isn't an anime "thing" either, I just think dubbing in general takes away from the original thing. To each their own but the "nobody cares what language you dub them in" is dead wrong.

I don't get how it takes away from the original. If you're reliant on subtitles, you've lost complexity in translation anyway. Until you've watched hundreds of hours of anime and pieced together certain words and phrases with their translation, you're not going to be able to understand the subtlety and inflection of tone which modify the intended meaning of particular words anyway.

In my experience more gets lost in translation because the dub alters the original thing, whereas subtitles go along with it. I'd rather hear the pitch, tone and timbre of the original voices too. Hearing a clearly Japanese cartoon in English or Spanish just takes me away from it. The Spanish dub cartoons in a lifeless, droning monotone that doesn't even attempt to capture the emotion of the character. And the Americans tend to overcompensate to the point everyone sounds like a tryhard (ie. Spike Spiegel).

Thank you debate team.
Dubbing defaces the product and is the most intrusive of either option. For every abridgement it also creates a barrier because it's putting somebody else's comprehension between what the director made and what I'm watching. I'd rather have subtitles to go along with the picture. Maybe there's no more reason to trust the translation of subs than that of a dub, but with subs at least you get the original unadulterated thing to go along.

I've heard that argument a million times and it's mostly bullcrap. Unless the setting it's in ancient Japan, modern Japan, future Japan, or a fantasy Asian setting. Or unless you're planning on learning the language. Who the hell cares? You have a minor point about this with dubs back in the day. But in most cases,it's a non-issue that's exaggerated nowadays.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SuperlativeDubbing/EnglishDubsAnimeManga

You know I wanna keep answering because I have conviction behind my opinion but all you do is say "bullshit", and there're only so many ways I can rephrase the points you're not addressing. This isn't about Japan or Japanese culture: I wanna be able to hear what the director (from whatever country) made, not the version somebody else painted over. That's my preference, for the reasons I think I've made fairly clear.

 

[BrawlMan]

I watched a review of Beastars and it just might be that one in a million anime I'll actually want to watch. When the English dub comes out, that is. inb4 "Japanese better", cartoons aren't real people (or beast-people in this case) nobody cares what language you dub them in

Well, you obviously care since you're waiting for the english dub.

I don't understand Japanese. For example I watch Ghibli movies (and Disney or Dreamworks or so on) in my native Finnish.

I don't understand Japanese either but I wouldn't watch anime in English or my native Spanish (which invariably means having to pick between the horrible Mexican dub or the douby horrible Spain!Spanish dub). This isn't an anime "thing" either, I just think dubbing in general takes away from the original thing. To each their own but the "nobody cares what language you dub them in" is dead wrong.

I don't get how it takes away from the original. If you're reliant on subtitles, you've lost complexity in translation anyway. Until you've watched hundreds of hours of anime and pieced together certain words and phrases with their translation, you're not going to be able to understand the subtlety and inflection of tone which modify the intended meaning of particular words anyway.

In my experience more gets lost in translation because the dub alters the original thing, whereas subtitles go along with it. I'd rather hear the pitch, tone and timbre of the original voices too. Hearing a clearly Japanese cartoon in English or Spanish just takes me away from it. The Spanish dub cartoons in a lifeless, droning monotone that doesn't even attempt to capture the emotion of the character. And the Americans tend to overcompensate to the point everyone sounds like a tryhard (ie. Spike Spiegel).

Thank you debate team.
Dubbing defaces the product and is the most intrusive of either option. For every abridgement it also creates a barrier because it's putting somebody else's comprehension between what the director made and what I'm watching. I'd rather have subtitles to go along with the picture. Maybe there's no more reason to trust the translation of subs than that of a dub, but with subs at least you get the original unadulterated thing to go along.

I've heard that argument a million times and it's mostly bullcrap. Unless the setting it's in ancient Japan, modern Japan, future Japan, or a fantasy Asian setting. Or unless you're planning on learning the language. Who the hell cares? You have a minor point about this with dubs back in the day. But in most cases,it's a non-issue that's exaggerated nowadays.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SuperlativeDubbing/EnglishDubsAnimeManga

You know I wanna keep answering because I have conviction behind my opinion but all you do is say "bullshit", and there're only so many ways I can rephrase the points you're not addressing. This isn't about Japan or Japanese culture: I wanna be able to hear what the director (from whatever country) made, not the version somebody else painted over. That's my preference, for the reasons I think I've made fairly clear.

I understand, get it, and respect it. As for me and most others, the dubs usually get the directors/creators intentions across nowadays. Your view is a bit too simplistic and basing it mostly off of bad localization/dubs from the 90s and early 2000s. Also, whatever a director's intentions are does not make the anime itself actually good regardless which version your watching. If the anime was bad, put together poorly to begin with, or drops in quality later on, there is not much either versions can salvage. Bennett can attest to that.

 

[Zeraki]

Aaaaand the thread almost immediately devolved into a sub vs. dub debate that will go absolutely nowhere but in circles... yay.

As for Anime I've been watching recently...

I've started watching 'My Hero Academia' for the first time. Enjoying it so far, most of the characters are likable and I love that there's just a kid who has a bird head and in this world that's just normal so nobody brings it up. Between this show and Demon Slayer this is the first time I've cared about a Shounen series since the early days of Bleach.

I'm thinking of rewatching Log Horizon again soon since it's been announced that the third season is finally coming. Now if only we could get a third season of Spice & Wolf.