The Gentleman said:
Okay, if you've played DotA, you've probably been in the following situation:
One guy on the a team chooses one of a handful of characters (Riki or Sniper are the most common, but I've seen others), levels quickly to 6 with a few easy kills, and then at a speed almost double the other characters and butchers the opponents, allowing them to grab some of the top items and giving their allies way more room to level, which exacerbates the problem. By the 15 minute mark, it's essentially a slaughter where one team is just running from any confrontation because one character can take on all five. It results in terribly unbalanced games and miserable play experience for one team while the other side is almost boring. I've been both on the giving and receiving side of this. It doesn't require skill at all.
So I think that DotA 2 could use some changes to deal with balancing:
1) Get rid of gold loss on death. I understand why this is here, but it exacerbates the problem by essentially preventing those who need items the most from needing them and allowing those who kill them to get the top items better. And when some of the base items cost 3300g, it is really frustrating to have to re-earn 1000g because the other asshole smacked you at 3200g.
2) Towers should deal percentage damage to heros, rather than set damage. You should not be able to solo a tower at any level. Creeps and/or other heroes should be required in order to take down a tower. At 16, a Juggernaut can solo a tower just with standard attacks and dropping a healing tome. This is a serious balancing problem as it essentially prevents the defensive stance of "tower hugging." This also combines with the next possible change.
3) Tower target priority. Currently, the tower will target whichever hostile creep or hero is closest and continue until it is dead. What this means is that melee heroes are at a distinct disadvantage in tower fights as they are closer, have to travel farther in order to approach and retreat from the tower, and have fewer alternative targets for the tower before they have to retreat. Conversely, towers don't change targets until they are dead or out of range, which means a hero just needs to make sure its not close to the tower during a target change and can still go after a straggler hero. What they should do is have target priorities in the following order: target hostile of friendly hero > hostile creeps > hostile hero. This combined with percentage damage would give lower level characters more of a fighting chance against higher level characters.
4) Larger killzone for spawns points. You should not be able to spawn camp in this game. Period. Make the map larger and set the spawn points farther back if you need to.
5) Consider an experience curve. The 1-25 level scale makes for a much more interesting experience in DotA 2 than LoLs 1-18, especially when you can divert a level into a straight up base state boost. That said, it also means that when there is a level gap, it is often much more dramatic (it is not uncommon for there to be a 12-level gap between characters), so I propose scaling experience gains based on the mean level of the other team rather than a set concrete number. You can still murder characters who are substantially lower level than you, but lower level characters can level faster and higher level characters can level slower making games more competitive and engaging.
6) Reexamine some ultimates and consider modifying the more abused ones. Let's get this out of the way: some ultimates are way too imbalanced. Reki's perma-stealth can be gained in one second of non-combat at level 3. Sniper has a maximum 20-second cooldown on an ultimate that has the range of almost a third of the map. I'm not saying you have to nerf their effects, but in terms of balance, some things need to change. Reki's stealth could be upped to 3 seconds and a minimum away from his last attack. Sniper's assassinate cooldown should probably double. These are the two that I most remember.
So this is what I think DotA 2 needs to make the game more balanced. Yes, some of this is straight up taking stuff from LoL, but DotA and LoL are essentially the same game to begin with with different heroes, tile sets, and marginal features. Embrace the similarities (because feature copyrights are much harder to fight in court than others).
So what do you think would help the game get more balanced? Are there any characters you think are "broken" and do you see how they could be fixed?
Hi there, I run the DotA 2 Escapist group and I have played over 2000 hours of DotA 2. I'm here to tell you why you are wrong.
1) Get rid of gold loss on death. I understand why this is here, but it exacerbates the problem by essentially preventing those who need items the most from needing them and allowing those who kill them to get the top items better. And when some of the base items cost 3300g, it is really frustrating to have to re-earn 1000g because the other asshole smacked you at 3200g.
Clearly you do
not understand the problem, not even close.
I skimmed your post and I understand you want to swap out a lot of DotA's mechanics to be more like League of Legends, this is one of them.
What you want is essentially the game to come to the conclusion of "Who can finish first before the better picks come online"
preventing those who need items the most from needing them
Do you know what is preventing you from getting the items?
Yourself.
allowing those who kill them to get the top items better
No, if you die then you're giving them the gold.
it is really frustrating to have to re-earn 1000g because the other asshole smacked you at 3200g
Play safer, stop dying.
Buy Wards
Do you understand how reliable and unreliable gold works? Do you even recognize it as a mechanic of DotA?
Probably not.
2) Towers should deal percentage damage to heros, rather than set damage. You should not be able to solo a tower at any level. Creeps and/or other heroes should be required in order to take down a tower. At 16, a Juggernaut can solo a tower just with standard attacks and dropping a healing tome. This is a serious balancing problem as it essentially prevents the defensive stance of "tower hugging." This also combines with the next possible change.
Horseshit.
You cannot solo a tower at level one, it just doesn't happen unless you have figured out some way to get around back door protection and keep your hero alive at level one, I want to see it.
At 16, a Juggernaut can solo a tower just with standard attacks and dropping a healing tome
This is a serious balancing problem as it essentially prevents the defensive stance of "tower hugging."
Are you fucking serious?
The healing ward is a one shot object, if you're hitting Juggernaut and not the ward he puts down in a team fight, you're doing it wrong.
Clearly, you have zero clue how this whole thing works.
At level 16 a Jugg could easily have a Desolator which adds a -armour debuff to the tower which stacks, is this a balance issue too or are you just chiming off about how people in the mid game can use their damage items to beat a tower down.
Towers are
NOT meant to be this catch all safety net that saves you at all points of the game like in League, towers stop early aggression and that is it.
You have to earn your keep.
4) Larger killzone for spawns points. You should not be able to spawn camp in this game. Period. Make the map larger and set the spawn points farther back if you need to.
This I would agree with but if there was a system in place then it would be abused, most likely. (People forcing enemies into the fountain or using it to defend a base without punishment)
The idea is good on paper, bad in practice.
5) Consider an experience curve. The 1-25 level scale makes for a much more interesting experience in DotA 2 than LoLs 1-18, especially when you can divert a level into a straight up base state boost. That said, it also means that when there is a level gap, it is often much more dramatic (it is not uncommon for there to be a 12-level gap between characters), so I propose scaling experience gains based on the mean level of the other team rather than a set concrete number. You can still murder characters who are substantially lower level than you, but lower level characters can level faster and higher level characters can level slower making games more competitive and engaging.
If you want scaling levels, go play an Elder Scrolls game.
Not only do you want to keep your gold you lose because you fucked up and died but you want to rip off the advantage somebody earned because "it's unfair".
They are better than you, they beat. This is how contests, you don't get a medal for just competing.
6) Reexamine some ultimates and consider modifying the more abused ones. Let's get this out of the way: some ultimates are way too imbalanced. Reki's perma-stealth can be gained in one second of non-combat at level 3. Sniper has a maximum 20-second cooldown on an ultimate that has the range of almost a third of the map. I'm not saying you have to nerf their effects, but in terms of balance, some things need to change. Reki's stealth could be upped to 3 seconds and a minimum away from his last attack. Sniper's assassinate cooldown should probably double. These are the two that I most remember.
So this is what I think DotA 2 needs to make the game more balanced. Yes, some of this is straight up taking stuff from LoL, but DotA and LoL are essentially the same game to begin with with different heroes, tile sets, and marginal features. Embrace the similarities (because feature copyrights are much harder to fight in court than others).
So what do you think would help the game get more balanced? Are there any characters you think are "broken" and do you see how they could be fixed?
Or stop sucking.
None of those ultimates are overpowered at all, Riki is a bad pick unless you want to counter Anti-mage.
If you lane against Riki you should be watching for him hitting level 6 and having sentry wards ready to place down in your lane so you can see him at all times.
What do you think is going to happen if you try to lane against someone without detection? Do you pick Spirit Breaker and charge him when you see him hit a creep and attempt to gank him without dust on you?
Sniper can be countered because of his incredibly poor mana pool as an Agi hero, considering he is building damage items and not int items he never will be able to spam it like you make it out he can.
Heres a clue, get a BKB or a Pipe of Insight and completely and utterly ignore it when you run up on him and beat him into the ground.
Nothing you mentioned is even broken.
You think Riki's stealth is bad, have you even LOOKED at Slark's?
Don't try to start a balance discussion when you do not understand how the game works.
If you want to learn, join the Escapists user group.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/DotA-2
The Wykydtron said:
I was just throwing any RNG people I could think of at the time, Legion Commander is another although she doesn't quite rely on hers as hard when compared to everyone else. Also doesn't Bloodseeker's ult base on distance travelled? I've immediately died from blinking away with Antimage before so wouldn't teleporting back to base just instantly kill me from the thousands of units instantly moved?
DOTA mechanics. Up there with the mysteries of the universe.
You only get hurt by BloodSeekers ult if you move, the rule is set by a certain distance over time.
If the affected unit moves more than 1300 distance in 0.25 seconds, it will not receive any damage
Teleporting will save you completely, always carry one when facing Blood Seeker. His force staff (if he builds one) will not cancel your channel so do not panic.
Only pray when he has a Basher.