Demon's Souls and Diablo II are the perfect ways of telling a story. Not intrusive, not obvious, with more emphasis on filling in the blanks with your imagination. Never is control taken away (ahem..MGS), and the story is all the more effective because of it.
Lets talk about games and the lack of good stories
- Thread starter 4RM3D
- Start date
Diablo II had a story? I couldn't resist saying it. Anyhow, I have played Diablo II and I have been thinking really hard about the story, but I can't recall anything impressive. It's kill demon A, move to next area, kill demon B, move to next area, etc, etc. The CGI movies were pretty good though. I (still) like Diablo II, but not for its story. I do know there is a lot of background story involved (which are told in books -IRL-), but I just don't see it in the game. It's fine to fill in a few blanks, but not the whole majority of the game.synulia said:
Sorry, I just don't see it...
No I didn't mean that at all, you haven't placed the blame on any genre which is good, I was just saying people in general, cause it's a common thing4RM3D said:
4RM3D said:
I actually agree with you. It doesn't feel at all like a Final Fantasy game. I loved the game but it wasn't Final Fantasy, I've always felt it would get much better reception if it was just called something else entirely.
Again, I love ToV for most of the reasons you do, it also has one incredible story and Yuri Lowell is one of my favourite characters around... What Yuri did made him even better a character in my eyes. Though like I said, the situation is what has disappointed me. I felt not only was the impact not there in the scene but I felt that the gameplay ruined the situation. It's all about co-joining the story and the gameplay. I brought up FFXIII for that reason actually.4RM3D said:
It gets a lot of criticism for its linearity but I think it needs to be linear for the story to work. Without that linearity, if you were free to explore like Tales of Vesperia the urgency would just disappear, the feel of being hunted, persectued. If FFXIII was anything like an original FF game, the atmosphere would die because of it and the story would suffer.
I'm thinking that we should find a way for traditional story-based games like JRPGs or games like Metal Gear to stay interactive or give the story impact without going to the depths of free choice but without it being a quick time event ridden nightmare. It's just that one part in Tales of Vesperia that lets it down for me, while a defining moment for one of my favourite characters, the lack of impact in those scenes, make all the difference between game of the decade and a great or even amazing game.
I'm being a bit nitpicky but I feel it really lets the game down and it's something almost all story heavy games do.
My point in this lengthened post is that, Tales of Vesperia has an amazing story with great, loveable characters, but it falls short because they haven't joined the game and the story. FFXIII has an amazing story with some great characters that really evolve, some of the best character growth I've seen in a game and it all falls short because the the game and the story are kept seperate. MGS4 is an incredible end to an incredible series that again falls short because it has long segments of cutscene and codec calls that are seperate from the gameplay. We need developers to fix this so that gaming can really meet its potential.
I really like TF2's story. It's there if you want to read the comics & updates and the dialogue between characters. If your the kind of person who doesn't care for that it's not forced on you.
Left 4 Dead too with the story being the world which you progress though. I hate when people say L4D doesn't have a story. I tell them they aren't looking.
Left 4 Dead too with the story being the world which you progress though. I hate when people say L4D doesn't have a story. I tell them they aren't looking.
Most definitely. But games are dumbed down for the masses in order to sell better. So stories being spoon fed also. Which isn't necessarily bad, but you are not stimulated to delve deeper into the story. That is, if there is something at all to dig in.G-Force said:
One of the best RPG games of all time, Planescape: Torment, does this pretty well. There is a basic story foundation and for the rest of the story you really need to delve into the word and start looking for it.
There we have a completely different problem. For shooters MP is easier to make than SP. But they usually still make both (CoD, Battlefield). But the SP just ends up crappy and everyone goes to the MP. This has a whole different underlying problem. But it will end with SP being removed from the game completely. On the flip side every now and then SP-only shooters emerge. Because they don't have MP, they really need to focus on SP in order to sell. Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a good example.TestECull said:
I agree about Silent Hill 2. Also, if games are art, then Shadow of the Colossus takes the cake. The (suggestive) story of SotC is in the little details. It works well in this game.Revolutionaryloser said:
But I have to disagree on Modern Warfare 1. MW had issues which prevented the story from reaching its full potential. Still, there where a few interesting moments though... the death scene was pretty cool.
Each form of story telling has it's strong points, games like Bioshock or Bastion are great for keeping the game play going but both rely on heavy use of monologues, which is probably the laziest form of story telling, cut scenes stop the game play but allow for a lot of options in telling the story.
Not to argue against your point, but when a story makes no sense, it can also mean that the story just has plot holes or discrepancies that don't add up. Then again, it can also be like you have described.Shark Wrangler said:
Ah yes, when you start calling that a story (which I am not saying isn't) then we have to broaden the definition of what a story is in video games. Maybe we should, maybe I should. Let me mediate on this.Revolutionaryloser said:
that first twist was incredible, it changed the whole experience immediately. It put a unique spin on the linear story model, it was awesome and not stupid in any way, it was very well thought out.Otaku World Order said:
I did like delta alot too though
Truth. However, IMO it would have been even more impressive if the game changed the way it was structured onceDarkmantle said:
Jack gets un-conditioned.
It stays more or less as linear as it was, which is a disappointment IMO.
I dunno, I have to disagree. I don't think Mass Effect would be hailed as a "dime a dozen" sci fi movie. The dialog is far better written than most sci fi movies that get released these days. You seem to think it's badly written; gonna have to completely disagree on that one. But that's not surprising as I felt Avatar was one of the most poorly written movies of the past decade. Groundbreaking in visual effects, to be sure, but a simply atrocious script. And I usually like James Cameron's writing. So, we clearly have different tastes.
I actually don't mind how well a story is integrated into the game. I had no issue with the Command and Conquer model of story, for example, where you would do a mission and then view a cutscene. As long as those scenes were well written and made me feel like I was actually accomplishing something in the gameplay then it worked for me. I think the bigger problem these days is in the quality of the writing itself. It really doesn't seem valued by the people who make games. Not nearly as much as things like graphics, anyway.
I actually don't mind how well a story is integrated into the game. I had no issue with the Command and Conquer model of story, for example, where you would do a mission and then view a cutscene. As long as those scenes were well written and made me feel like I was actually accomplishing something in the gameplay then it worked for me. I think the bigger problem these days is in the quality of the writing itself. It really doesn't seem valued by the people who make games. Not nearly as much as things like graphics, anyway.