Let's talk about The Witcher

endtherapture

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The Witcher seems a really divise series of games, however for my, it is one of my most favourite games. These threads always generate a lot of discussion value and debate so let's so have a threadd.

The Witcher 1.

Wow. What a game. This is the game a lot of people have problems with. It's got a lot of problems for sure, such as the somewhat crass sex cards in the first game (still nowhere near sexism) and the weird murder mystery subplot and dodgy voice acting and strange combat. But I think it's positive points outweighed it's negative points.

However the game for me was incredibly immersive, so much more so than Skyrim or Morrowind or basically any other RPG I've played since Baldur's Gate. For one, the crafting system was amazing. I really like the alchemy system with the different reagents and using alcohols has bases actually got me immersed in the world. I was engaging with the crafting system for once, and the day/night routines were also immersive.

The combat was...okay. It was incredibly weird but it translated to you how important the timing of a Witcher's strikes were, and it kept you more invested in the game that a standard auto-attack story would've been.

Then there's the world and the sound track. Oh my god, this was the best. The world was beautiful for such an old game on an old engine, and the music really added to the atmosphere and made you feel like you were living in a true dark fantasy world.

The story wasn't amazing but it was paced really well, and was really long and expansive which is great. I like how the story progresses through all 3 games as it makes it feel like an epic adventure.

The Witcher 2.

The Witcher 2 improved a lot on the first game. It got rid of the sex cards and significantly improved the combat, as well as improving the environment and adding better characters and a more cinematic and involved plot. The branching story was really good too.

Sadly it got rid of the alchemy system :( It improved it obviously, with more swords, weapons and armour, but I just didn't engage with crafting as much which was a shame. It wasn't quite as immersive as the first Witcher game, but the cinematics and better story with more relatable characters made up for it.

What are your thoughts?
 

BloatedGuppy

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I played both the first and second Witcher games. First game I got about...oh...50% of the way into it and I just couldn't take it any more. It wasn't the sex cards (although those were pretty embarrassing), and it wasn't the dodgy combat, it was just a little of everything. A kind of cumulative jankiness that just made playing the game more of a chore than a pleasure. I also didn't find it remotely "immersive", the game was always cramming its shitty controls or terrible acting or needlessly byzantine systems design in your face as a way of reminding you "THIS IS JUST A GAME".

Second game was worlds improved. Lots of people ***** about the cursing and the sex, but the cursing and the sex is just background noise. I appreciated the game's politics, grey-grey morality and refusal to hold the player's hand and gentle them into events with pounds of exposition. I also liked that Geralt was present for events, but not constantly drive them. The player as the Epic Hero At The Center of All Things storytelling mechanism has gotten profoundly stale.
 

Morgoth780

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Witcher 1: Definitely one of my favorite RPGs. I agree with you on the combat, but once I was used to it, it was relatively enjoyable. And I suppose one of the nice things about it was how it acted in the lategame. Sure, in the late game (at least on normal difficulty) I was basically able to destroy all of my enemies extremely easily, but the combat still took "skill" (for lack of a better word) since I couldn't just spam the attack button. Which is sort of what Witcher 2 became on Dark mode.

Overall, I think it's hard not to recommend someone play the Witcher 1 unless you know they'll get upset by the sex cards, or just dislike RPGs. But other than what I said about the combat system, I really don't have much to add. Although I will say some of the textures were really jarring - I don't know if it was just my PC, but some textures were relatively decent while some (primarily some character textures) just looked like absolute crap.

Witcher 2: To be honest I think this game was a step back. I think that partially might be because of the ending upsetting me (I was expecting another 2 chapters like the first game), but there are definitely things I dislike. While the combat was in some ways improved, I disliked how much I was dependent on rolling at the beginning (I might have been doing things wrong though). Also, I wasn't a huge fan of the UI. The UI for the Witcher 1 was great in my opinion, but then in Witcher 2 it was really a step back in terms of item sorting, as well as just general accessibility since it went full screen. Also I very much share your thoughts on the alchemy system. I overall preferred how alchemy and meditating in general worked in the first game, as well as how you could drink potions at any time. Still I very much enjoyed the Witcher 2 and I'm very excited for the Witcher 3.
 

TheGamerElite33

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Witcher 1 combat was terrible but second improve to that department thus making it better game.
I like open world approach in witcher 3.
 

Auberon

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I'm very much stuck on the first proper hub, that little village at the riverbed - afraid of failing to fully complete the game. I should, considering I preordered Wild Hunt to support CDPR already.
 

Gizmo1990

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Loved them both and I can't wait for the next. As much as I need to upgrade my PC hardware for other, more important reasons, I would be lying if I said that The Witcher 3 was not what motivated me to do it.
 

EquestrianGeneral

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I really, REALLY wanted to love the Witcher series. On paper, it has everything that I would want in an RPG; a well-crafted world and a story that reacts to your choices, a strategic combat system, an in-depth and important crafting system, etc.

I couldn't get through more than 5 hours of the Witcher 1, which really disappointed me. I can't even really figure out why--nothing about the game was particularly bad, but I just got extremely bogged-down and bored (and I'm not the kind of guy to get bored easily).

I got through about 10 hours of the Witcher 2, which is an improvement, but not by much. A lot of it felt better, but it still felt really "off" for a modern RPG.

I hope that the Witcher 3 can change my mind, because I really want to fully support CDPR and love at least one of the Witcher games.
 

MysticSlayer

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I loved the first game, or at least the Enhanced Edition. It had plenty of problems, sure, but it really drew me into the world, the story, and the characters. I felt that it had a perfect balance between its darker and lighter themes for a dark fantasy game, being clearly of the more cynical outlook of the world without forgetting that there is a lot to appreciate in it as well. It's probably the only dark fantasy game I've seen do it right, as most others tend to get too caught up in the darker themes and/or any break from those themes feels horribly forced. The game also did a great job of making it feel like we were a Witcher exploring a hostile yet beautiful world. And while the combat and voice acting were often horrible, I never felt that they truly took away from the experience, and their approach to combat even did more to emphasize the world, which is really what I appreciated about the game in the end.

Unfortunately, The Witcher 2 really wasn't up to par. While the structure of the intro (i.e. letting us play through it in a non-chronological order) was interesting, it was absolutely horrible. It was clear that the charm of the original was gone and that the game was so firmly entrenched in its darker themes that it had the dark fantasy problem of just being too cynical, and any attempts at humor just fell flat and felt forced. The combat, despite its greater potential, was a complete drag, possibly even more than the first game's mechanically-inferior combat. The politics were interesting, but most of it was little different than what we had already seen in the first game, and understanding the rules of politics that the first game introduced us to made the plot overly predictable. Roche and Iorveth were the only two interesting new characters, and the world just no longer was enjoyable to explore. It felt way too small and restrictive compared to the one in the first game. I would say that the only real strength of this game was what it revealed to us about The Wild Hunt and in setting up an interesting scenario with Nilfgaard.

With that said about The Witcher 2 did right, I'm actually still excited for The Witcher 3. I don't really expect it to solve many of the problems that the first two games had. The combat still looks like it will be a low point and what little I've read about it makes it seem like its presentation of women will be just as bad as the first two. Still, it looks like CDPR has learned a lot from The Witcher 2 and in where they improved on the original and where they should have left stuff from the original alone. The world looks far more open and conducive to exploration than the second game's world was, and that will certainly be a huge plus. I doubt I'll pay full price for it, considering I'm still worried about it being a disappointment like The Witcher 2, but I still plan on picking it up sooner or later.
 

sageoftruth

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Well, plenty has been said already. The games definitely got me immersed in the world. After finishing the second one, I started reading the books that inspired the games, simply because I wanted more of the interesting world Andrzej Sapkowski created. He's a pretty charming author. His books have a surreal humor to them, and I liked his unique approach to the done-to-death Tolkien fantasy genre.

I noticed some people had trouble figuring out exactly what drove them away from finishing 1. I can definitely list a few things. The game seemed to commit a bunch of sins that may have been excusable when the game was released, but are hard to ignore now. The sin I remember best was all the Fed-Ex missions, especially in the murder mystery. While the world itself was extremely interesting, it was impossible to go through that without constantly thinking, "Ok! I talked to this guy. Who am I supposed to talk to next to make the plot move forward?" It was especially jarring when the mission was to talk to someone, and then leave and talk to them again the following day. At times like that, I would have recommended an optional automatic time-skip, instead of making me run around town looking for a place where I could meditate until the next day.

It was also a bit immersion-breaking the way NPCs were programmed to always say the same line before you were to select what to say to them, leading to lines like, "What would you like to know?" (answer) "Oh, (exposition, exposition)... What would you like to know?"

I definitely liked the improvement in the monster-hunting missions in the second one, where it basically improved from "Bring me X dead monster drops" to "find a clever way to keep the monsters from coming back". I also thought the action in the second one was great for an RPG, but a bit exploitable. I easily defeated the final boss in one continuous combo by using Ard to knock him off balance whenever he was about to block my next attack (I had about 6 vigor, so I got lots of attacks off before needing to recharge). One thing that could definitely use improvement in the second one was Geralt's buddies, Dandilion, Roche, Zoltan and Triss as NPCs. They had a lot to say in each world when you spoke to them, but you could hear it all at the beginning of the chapter, and it never updated. It was kind of disappointing when a major event happened and I found that none of the main NPCs had anything new to say about it.

Regarding the 3rd one, I'm hopeful that the open world isn't too detrimental to the story. The story and the characters were some of the main things that made all the previous two games' problems so easy to overlook. I saw some footage and the combat has definitely improved. Anyway, as I said in an earlier post, if the reviews don't drive me away, I'll be happy to pay full price for it.
 

sageoftruth

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TopazFusion said:
I really couldn't get into game 1. I just didn't feel engaged enough.
I really felt no motivation to find the "Witcher's Secrets" that had supposedly been stolen from him.

I messed up that stupid investigation quest in chapter 2 TWICE. I had to play it 3 times in total. It really didn't give the player much to go on, or much direction.

Game 2 was a HUGE improvement. Better combat, better characters, better graphics, more interesting, more engaging.
endtherapture said:
Then there's the world and the sound track. Oh my god, this was the best. The world was beautiful for such an old game on an old engine, and the music really added to the atmosphere and made you feel like you were living in a true dark fantasy world.
I only really liked one track from the first game. This one:

I loved the tavern music from the fourth chapter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyG_mnBS6zg
 

Able Seacat

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I just saw the witcher 2 for a fiver on xbox and was deciding whether to get it or not. Feels weird to start with sequel though.
 

Arina Love

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I just don't like W-RPGs where you don't make your character. Couldn't get in to both games, i guess dragon age spoiled me.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Able Seacat said:
I just saw the witcher 2 for a fiver on xbox and was deciding whether to get it or not. Feels weird to start with sequel though.
There's a video on youtube that gets you caught up on the plot (such as it is) in about five minutes.
 

ryessknight

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Never played witcher 1 , its pc only and even if i did buy pc games my crap pc couldnt run it, but i loved witcher 2 on 360. I really wish that they went through with the 360 port of 1 though cause it sounds interesting. Really looking forward too 3 on ps4.
 

Amaror

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Oh Witcher 1 was amazing. It certainly can be a bit hard to get through, exspecially the third chapter is a bit jarring, since you're in the same environment you allready spent hours in the second chapter. But so much is just so good. I really liked the quest personally. The detective quest was really fun and unique. I also really liked the party Geralt visits were you can decide who you bring as a friend. It's just nice and fun and just so personal, i love it.
I do think THe Witcher 2 did a lot of things better. Not quite as memorable quests, but still good ones and the presentation improved a lot.
 

JoJoDelight

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Able Seacat said:
I just saw the witcher 2 for a fiver on xbox and was deciding whether to get it or not. Feels weird to start with sequel though.
For that price you should get it and not regret it. Though as someone has said there are some short videos on youtube which give a brief outline of the previous plot/backstory.
 

bartholen_v1legacy

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I have the first 2 games on Steam after seeing tons of praise for both and buying them for basically nothing. I played the first one for about 6 hours, and haven't touched it since. Neither did I ever install the second one, because I'd like to see how the choices I make in the first impact the second one. But I doubt I'll ever finish even the first one. I never got what the deal was supposed to be with the story, I felt like I was just doing some random ass stuff with no connection to one another. The combat was unsatisfying and awkward, and jesus christ the names of every single fucking thing just confused me to hell and back. Geralt felt like a nonentity of a character (to be fair, that's how he felt in the books too), and there was just nothing to hold my interest.
 

Piorn

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oh man I loved coming into a new area, grabbing missions, and then investigating, gathering clues and interrogating people. Just having the freedom to stroll around, gather plants and figure stuff out as you please was great.

Can't wait to dust off my old savegame for W3.
 

Bara_no_Hime

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endtherapture said:
The Witcher
What are your thoughts?
Honestly? As much as I enjoyed the gameplay in he Witcher 1, after reading the novels, the plot comes off as bad fanfiction. It's a mishmash of plot elements from various parts of the novels and short stories, and it makes a lot less sense in the context of the universe once you know the story from the novels.

Also, the Witcher 1 completely fucked up Triss by giving her Yennifer's personality. I'm guessing they originally planned to have Yen in the game and switched at the last minute once they figured out the plot for the series as a whole. Still, they utterly trash Triss, which I find unforgivable.

Also - where the fuck is Ciri?! (yes, I know, probably in the Witcher 3)

I liked the Witcher 2 far better from a plot point of view. It fit better with the novels (mostly) and did a better job of feeling like a story in the world of the Witcher rather than a story ripped off from other Witcher stories.

It still felt like fanfiction, but like Good Fanfiction. Which, to be fair, is exactly what it is.

Also - WHERE THE FUCK IS CIRI?! (yes, I know, see above)

Thus I eagerly await the Witcher 3.

Oh... one last point. I won't argue the sexism of the cards here. I already did so in my Witcher LP on this site [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.404351-An-Impromptu-Witcher-Lets-Play-now-with-the-Witcher-2#16746275].

Enjoy shameless plug!
 

TheGamerElite33

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Arina Love said:
I just don't like W-RPGs where you don't make your character. Couldn't get in to both games, i guess dragon age spoiled me.
but unlike dragon age. witcher is badass manly game. i mean geralt of rivia is cool and badass. best RPG character ever.