Letting go.

[Flutterguy]

!!!

Right, sometimes they're just in a bad mood. Sometimes it's just bad timing. I should keep that in mind.

No one has mentioned bad education before. Are there studies of this that I can read about?

I don't know of any studies that have literally said it, but it's not hard to see. Kids with fathers sporting shoulder to shoulder swastika tattoos don't tend to grow up as progressive members of society. We are all just victims of our own experiences, hoping to pass on what we learned, but no one cares to listen until they find out themselves.

Just try to enjoy yourself as best you can in the situation you're in.

 

[PsychicTaco115]

Everyone can make a small difference in their own way so I wouldnt worry TOO much about the grand scheme of things

 

[Buckshaft]

I agree here. I can translate Skarp Dig, or however it goes.

Around here, we have a phrase. "Take yourself off it, you bloody banter merchant." more universally, it means, "Get your head out of your own ass"

From what you've said so far you seem to live in a nice place. It's like the culture takes care of the problem. I never thought about that before. I could simply move away from the problem.

I do NOT live in a nice place. I'm from the six occupied counties, and no matter who you are, someone is always out to get you, for your religion, mostly.

 

[mip0]

I agree here. I can translate Skarp Dig, or however it goes.

Around here, we have a phrase. "Take yourself off it, you bloody banter merchant." more universally, it means, "Get your head out of your own ass"

From what you've said so far you seem to live in a nice place. It's like the culture takes care of the problem. I never thought about that before. I could simply move away from the problem.

I do NOT live in a nice place. I'm from the six occupied counties, and no matter who you are, someone is always out to get you, for your religion, mostly.

From what you've said so far you do not seem to live in a nice place. I'm sorry.
Is it getting worse or getting better? Do you think the problems will be solved in your life-time?

 

[Buckshaft]

From what you've said so far you do not seem to live in a nice place. I'm sorry.
Is it getting worse or getting better? Do you think the problems will be solved in your life-time?

Course it's not. It was getting better, now it's getting worse again. And it won't be solved, it won't ever. As the songs say, it's been going on for 800 Years.

 

[Coruptin]

If it really does seem like I'm asking why people do not support me being an actual cartoon villain, then I'm curious . I often have trouble making myself understood and it would be interesting to read about your interpretation of the original question.

I think there is an issue of communication. English isn't your first language nor neither is it mine.
In your original post it seemed like you were saying that you do not care how horrible you act, but you also say that you do not understand why people judge you for being a horrible person who does not care how horrible he is. It seems like you are asking why people shame you for being a horrible person. So I thought, surely only someone cartoonishly unpleasant could not comprehend that when you are an asshole to other people, other people are going to react accordingly and treat you likewise. Now, there are few people, true angels and saints amongst men, who will always respond with patience and compassion, but to expect everyday gamer Billy bob Jones to always give you the benefit of the doubt and return vitriol and disrespect with unfettered trust and good will is ludicrous.

 

[mip0]

If it really does seem like I'm asking why people do not support me being an actual cartoon villain, then I'm curious . I often have trouble making myself understood and it would be interesting to read about your interpretation of the original question.

I think there is an issue of communication. English isn't your first language nor neither is it mine.
In your original post it seemed like you were saying that you do not care how horrible you act, but you also say that you do not understand why people judge you for being a horrible person who does not care how horrible he is. It seems like you are asking why people shame you for being a horrible person. So I thought, surely only someone cartoonishly unpleasant could not comprehend that when you are an asshole to other people, other people are going to react accordingly and treat you likewise. Now, there are few people, true angels and saints amongst men, who will always respond with patience and compassion, but to expect everyday gamer Billy bob Jones to always give you the benefit of the doubt and return vitriol and disrespect with unfettered trust and good will is ludicrous.

First: I like the way you write. Very enjoyable. "everyday gamer Billy bob Jones" x)

Now, this is more like what I was trying to say:
I understand why they shame me but I don't understand why I feel ashamed. I thought I didn't care anymore.

geeky_demon provided an answer in psychological terms. Mossberg Shotty answered it too. I've added both answers to the original post.

 

[mip0]

From what you've said so far you do not seem to live in a nice place. I'm sorry.
Is it getting worse or getting better? Do you think the problems will be solved in your life-time?

Course it's not. It was getting better, now it's getting worse again. And it won't be solved, it won't ever. As the songs say, it's been going on for 800 Years.

I'm sorry for being so ignorant. It doesn't feel like me asking more questions would be of any help to you, because you've probably already asked yourself those questions. Also, I don't have any experience of being in the kind of situation that you seem to be describing.

 

[DerangedHobo]

I was wondering if I should let go of reality. If I should stop caring about the world around me because of the expectations, the pressure. Funny how I should find the answers at the escapist. It sounds like a place full of people who do not resist letting go. Of course, it should also be a place with people who have thought a lot about the subject of letting go (and holding on). Maybe I'm being over-dramatic. I don't care, I'm just typing what I feel like typing. If I edit this again, then it will not be to make things less dramatic, but to remove these last three sentences, in which I explain myself.

But once you acknowledge that this is all a joke (a pretty bad one at that) and you let go of everything, what do you have left? I'd advise not doing that, if you completely and utterly cease to give a fuck about everything then life ceases to become anything at all, if that makes sense.

 

[Coruptin]

Now, this is more like what I was trying to say:
I understand why they shame me but I don't understand why I feel ashamed. I thought I didn't care anymore.

geeky_demon provided an answer in psychological terms. Mossberg Shotty answered it too. I've added both answers to the original post.

Ah, I see
That is understandable. Then perhaps the simplest answer is the solution. You do care. It would be nearly impossible for a high functioning human adult to be truly apathetic to the scrutiny of others. We are proud. We have chosen to present ourselves as we do. It is only normal to care immensely though we may not vocalise it.

I have a brother, he likes to loudly tell anyone who criticizes him that he does not care, but he does care. I have known him all of his life and know him to be a most sensitive individual. He probably believes that it is weakness to openly express ones sensitivity, but I believe this notion only leads to miscommunication and frustration. Perhaps this is not you. Perhaps there may be a chemical imbalance or some minor brain injury or under development that creates this dissonance where you believe one thing but feel another, but if you do see openly airing your passion and sensitivity as a weakness, I can tell you it is not. When you feel ashamed by a person tell them so, maybe tell them why you do not appreciate their words or looks, if you feel you may have hurt them somehow ask if you had and ask for forgiveness, and do not bottle your frustrations if the situation does not require it, as it may in a work environment.

 

[mip0]

I was wondering if I should let go of reality. If I should stop caring about the world around me because of the expectations, the pressure. Funny how I should find the answers at the escapist. It sounds like a place full of people who do not resist letting go. Of course, it should also be a place with people who have thought a lot about the subject of letting go (and holding on). Maybe I'm being over-dramatic. I don't care, I'm just typing what I feel like typing. If I edit this again, then it will not be to make things less dramatic, but to remove these last three sentences, in which I explain myself.

But once you acknowledge that this is all a joke (a pretty bad one at that) and you let go of everything, what do you have left? I'd advise not doing that, if you completely and utterly cease to give a fuck about everything then life ceases to become anything at all, if that makes sense.

Thanks for your reply!

At first I was going to say something like: "What do I have left? Well, I can still laugh. There's music, movies, games and I might even have a few friends left who have also chosen to let go."
But maybe you're speaking about that state of zero energy? When we can't do anything but lie on the floor and look into the wall, until our shoulders start hurting and we slowly roll over on our backs and look at the ceiling instead. I've been there actually. I was just sitting at my computer with a large cup of water and a big bag of sugar. When I didn't even have the energy to listen to music, watch movies or play games, I just slid down onto the floor, lying there as I described earlier. This was some time after a period of rolling around in my bed, asking "Why?" and "What is this?". Laughing a lot and crying a bit. (I guess I can't expect others to talk about their experiences if I'm too afraid to talk about mine.)
Have you been there? If you have, did you learn from your mistakes? I sure didn't. It feels like I'll be there in less than a year.
How does one prevent it? Does it help to have another human around? Someone who wants to do stuff, someone with opinions? Probably someone who grew up with on elder siblings. (Although, they'll probably realize quite quickly that it's better just to leave.)

Also, this one time I was listening to some guy on the radio. He was talking about his life. His experiences, his thoughts, his questions, his conclusions. At one point he said something like: "I don't fear anxiety. I like the sweet pain." It really made me wonder. Some of us like what many call "misery", don't we? It might even be essential for our society to function. For some people to get what they want, others have to compromise or give up completely. If they don't kill themselves, they'll eventually grow accustomed to their situation. Can we grow accustomed to any situation, if only we stay in that situation long enough? (So the question is really: Is there always a time "long enough"?) It might even say so in some book about the biochemistry of humans (or whatever): Regardless of the situation, endorphin WILL leak out eventually, and we'll find ourselves smiling.

I'm sorry for asking so much at the same time. Of course, I'm not expecting you to answer everything. I'll be glad if you answer anything.

 

[mip0]

Now, this is more like what I was trying to say:
I understand why they shame me but I don't understand why I feel ashamed. I thought I didn't care anymore.

geeky_demon provided an answer in psychological terms. Mossberg Shotty answered it too. I've added both answers to the original post.

Ah, I see
That is understandable. Then perhaps the simplest answer is the solution. You do care. It would be nearly impossible for a high functioning human adult to be truly apathetic to the scrutiny of others. We are proud. We have chosen to present ourselves as we do. It is only normal to care immensely though we may not vocalise it.

I have a brother, he likes to loudly tell anyone who criticizes him that he does not care, but he does care. I have known him all of his life and know him to be a most sensitive individual. He probably believes that it is weakness to openly express ones sensitivity, but I believe this notion only leads to miscommunication and frustration. Perhaps this is not you. Perhaps there may be a chemical imbalance or some minor brain injury or under development that creates this dissonance where you believe one thing but feel another, but if you do see openly airing your passion and sensitivity as a weakness, I can tell you it is not. When you feel ashamed by a person tell them so, maybe tell them why you do not appreciate their words or looks, if you feel you may have hurt them somehow ask if you had and ask for forgiveness, and do not bottle your frustrations if the situation does not require it, as it may in a work environment.

Yes, I guess I do care.

I do recognize your brothers behavior. It just sounds like another attempt at ending the criticism. He may not believe that he can live up to the expectations, so instead he tries to shut off his feelings, or at least convince people that he has shut off his feelings so that they'll stop criticizing him because there's no use. Also, the following could seriously happen:
1. Your brother does something considered wrong.
2. His parents (or similar) criticizes him.
3. Your brother decides to better himself: I will do A in the future!
4. Someone that he isn't too fond of comes along and says: You should do A in the future!
5. Your brother thinks: Now if I do A, this asshole will think that I'm doing it just because he told me to. I'll do B if I want to! They'll criticize me again but I just wont care! (<- There it is!) (As you say, we are proud.)

But maybe you already know this. It's more about what to feel proud about, right? That we shouldn't have to keep it to ourselves just to keep our pride intact. It shouldn't only have to be "Your brother THINKS(...)" in point 5 above.

Also, do you have any advice for when it does happen in a work environment?

 

[Fox12]

If I remember correctly, narcissism is a problem in this community. Therefore, I want to warn whoever's reading that I will (continue to) speak about myself. I do think many will be able to relate and perhaps gain something from discussing the topic that I am about to present.

If you feel ashamed about the things you do, then your mind is trying to tell you something. You're missing something in your life that is keeping you from being fulfilled, even if you don't realize it. For this reason alone, you should take steps to improve your situation.

 

[DerangedHobo]

At first I was going to say something like: "What do I have left? Well, I can still laugh. There's music, movies, games and I might even have a few friends left who have also chosen to let go."

But once you acknowledge that life is one big act of futility, one collective piss in the wind how can you enjoy it? Things like self improvement, work, education become irrational acts which is just killing time until you die. Hedonism seems like the only answer or solution but then life boils down to trying to get your next fix of drugs so you feel better. That's what it seems like to me at least.

Have you been there? If you have, did you learn from your mistakes? How does one prevent it?

I've been there and I probably still am there, regarding preventing it I'd say find better distractions if you can't rationaize. I can't say I've learnt from my mistakes but I can say that having people around helps.

It might even be essential for our society to function. For some people to get what they want, others have to compromise or give up completely

I don't know if I'm taking this quote out of context but it's pretty obvious that our society is built off of the misery of others. Capitalism alone has 5 year olds digging in a ditch in africa for minerals and people in sweat shops mass producing clothes. The way I see it we're the lucky losers, born high enough that we aren't in sweat shops but low enough that we're just cogs in the machine.

Can we grow accustomed to any situation, if only we stay in that situation long enough?

I'd say it depends on the person but yeah, humans are a resiliant bunch and they can probably survive most horrific situations.

 

[Coruptin]

Also, do you have any advice for when it does happen in a work environment?

im afraid in a work environment this is a very lose lose situation. you could bring it up to human resources management, but this is problematic if the person you have grievances towards is someone of a higher position than you. not to mention, as a man, someone making you uncomfortable with their looks would not be a very high priority 'to solve' item. if human resources does do something about it you might be socially ostracized by some for your perceived betrayal.

the best solution might be to confide in a friend just so you might be able to vocalise your complaints and have someone listen. someone you can be loud and obnoxious with together, the type of person you can tell to fuck off and they'll reply fuck right off back at you and be laughing together afterwards.

 

[Atrocious Joystick]

I don´t understand OP, this whole thread makes me confused. Sort of like I´m having a stroke, I read all the words but the meaning just escapes me. From what I gather you think you are a douche or a lazy good for nothing and you want to continue being this and "letting go" of something (life?) but you still feel shame when people call you out on your douchebaggery. Am I in the ballpark?

Have you tried getting a grip, start giving a fuck and stop being a douche? Not giving a fuck isn´t cool once you stop being a teen. You´re going to live for lot longer than however old you are now and you probably want those years to be spent doing something other than eating chips on the couch while playing video games. You´re not special, don´t act like these things that all normal people do is too good for you because eventually you are going to want them. Skärp dig.

 

[mip0]

I don´t understand OP, this whole thread makes me confused. Sort of like I´m having a stroke, I read all the words but the meaning just escapes me. From what I gather you think you are a douche or a lazy good for nothing and you want to continue being this and "letting go" of something (life?) but you still feel shame when people call you out on your douchebaggery. Am I in the ballpark?

Have you tried getting a grip, start giving a fuck and stop being a douche? Not giving a fuck isn´t cool once you stop being a teen. You´re going to live for lot longer than however old you are now and you probably want those years to be spent doing something other than eating chips on the couch while playing video games. You´re not special, don´t act like these things that all normal people do is too good for you because eventually you are going to want them. Skärp dig.

The ballpark is not very well defined. Sometimes when I read someones' post I notice how much they seem to know about the subject and so I take the opportunity to ask about something related. I'm sorry. I just like to talk about these things and I can't be arsed to create another thread.

Yes I tried getting a grip once. I gave all my fucks about something that I thought was very important. I tried to be a good person. I just didn't last very long. I wore comfortable clothes and ate good food, but other than that I tried to be completely absent. I gave up completely after about two and a half years. I didn't tell anyone about my cause because they would have thought that I was crazy. That made it easier for me to give up; I began to tell myself that it was crazy. I started thinking all ideas were crazy. Life is too complicated so we are crazy as soon as we think we know something.

"eventually you are going to want them"
I hope you're right. I'm still waiting. I figure that, once that desire comes I'll start giving a fuck again.

"Skärp dig."
Thank you!

 

[mip0]

At first I was going to say something like: "What do I have left? Well, I can still laugh. There's music, movies, games and I might even have a few friends left who have also chosen to let go."

But once you acknowledge that life is one big act of futility, one collective piss in the wind how can you enjoy it? Things like self improvement, work, education become irrational acts which is just killing time until you die. Hedonism seems like the only answer or solution but then life boils down to trying to get your next fix of drugs so you feel better. That's what it seems like to me at least.

Yes, hedonism... Is it possible to live as a hedonist for, say, 30 years without resorting to drugs? Are ordinary hedonistic activities enough to satisfy one's needs for such a long time? (Take "ordinary" to mean legal.)

Can raising children be a hedonistic activity? Can it be satisfying to someone who has realized that there is, ultimately, no point in anything? I read a bit about hedonism on Wikipedia. In the section about the "ultra-hedonist" school called the Cyrenaic school, it says: "They did, however, recognize the value of social obligation, and that pleasure could be gained from altruism[citation needed].". (Altruism is the opposite of egoism.)

Perhaps this is the best thing that could happen: We take some drug that's just amazing (I've heard there are many drugs that are amazing the first time you take them) and when we're at the absolute peak, someone takes a gun and shots us in the head from behind.

Have you been there? If you have, did you learn from your mistakes? How does one prevent it?

I've been there and I probably still am there, regarding preventing it I'd say find better distractions if you can't rationalize. I can't say I've learnt from my mistakes but I can say that having people around helps.

(...)if you don't spend time talking to other people, you will go psychotic(...)
Here: http://everything2.com/title/Humans+are+pack+animals

It's connected to this:

(...)
Once ego takes over and you no longer trust any opinion other than your own, then you've not the perspective to know whether you're right or wrong. You can't see yourself from an outsider's perspective, no matter how smart you are.
(...)

I have to agree. For a very long time I've only rarely been talking to people. When I do say something to someone I don't know whether they'll smile or punch me in response. We get a better idea of what's right and wrong the more people we talk to. It's just like how a statistical mean value is considered better if it has been computed from a larger amount of samples. Of course, these samples have to be random. In the same way, it must be important that there is a great diversity among the people we talk to.

It might even be essential for our society to function. For some people to get what they want, others have to compromise or give up completely

I don't know if I'm taking this quote out of context but it's pretty obvious that our society is built off of the misery of others. Capitalism alone has 5 year olds digging in a ditch in africa for minerals and people in sweat shops mass producing clothes.

Well, it's a tiny bit out of context. It's connected to the last question. I know some people live in misery for the benefit of others, but is it really misery or have they grown accustomed to it? Is it essential to our society that they DO grow accustomed to it? Otherwise they'd be constantly revolting, I guess. Also, you kind of answered this question when you answered the last one:

Can we grow accustomed to any situation, if only we stay in that situation long enough?

I'd say it depends on the person but yeah, humans are a resiliant bunch and they can probably survive most horrific situations.

The way I see it we're the lucky losers, born high enough that we aren't in sweat shops but low enough that we're just cogs in the machine.

Those who are born higher than us and aren't cogs in the machine, do they really have it better than us? Imagine that this is the second life we live and that we have only forgotten about the previous life we lived. Imagine that this previous life took place at the same point in history as this one. Imagine that in this previous life, we were part of the "lucky winners", born so high that we weren't even cogs in the machine. Now, imagine that when we die this time, we regain our memories of our previous lives, so that we remember both lives simultaneously. Lastly, imagine that we must choose to re-live one of these two lives. Would it be an easy choice?

I enjoyed reading your reply and I wouldn't hesitate to read your next reply. Thank you!

 

[DerangedHobo]

Yes, hedonism... Is it possible to live as a hedonist for, say, 30 years without resorting to drugs? Are ordinary hedonistic activities enough to satisfy one's needs for such a long time? (Take "ordinary" to mean legal.)

Well when I said "drug" I wasn't referring to just taking external drugs, I was mainly talking about those pleasureable activities realeasing a natural drug and by extension equating that lifestyle to that of a junkie's. And I'd say there is enough shit to do in the world to satisfy you but like I said before, your enjoyment still boils down to drugs in one form or another.

Can raising children be a hedonistic activity? Can it be satisfying to someone who has realized that there is, ultimately, no point in anything? I read a bit about hedonism on Wikipedia. In the section about the "ultra-hedonist" school called the Cyrenaic school, it says: "They did, however, recognize the value of social obligation, and that pleasure could be gained from altruism[citation needed].". (Altruism is the opposite of egoism.)

I think there is a level of ego in having a kid, a level of pride and "this is my legacy" type shit. It's my opinion that having a kid is a pretty fucked up thing to do, bringing sentient life into a pretty shit world where it doesn't need to be. That being said, I can think of nothing more fucked up than acknowledging that life is pointless and a piss in the wind and then creating more life for shits and giggles. That's pretty fucked, in fact that's fucked on every level.

Perhaps this is the best thing that could happen: We take some drug that's just amazing (I've heard there are many drugs that are amazing the first time you take them) and when we're at the absolute peak, someone takes a gun and shots us in the head from behind.

Not to sound edgy or anything but I'd say the best thing that could of happened was not being born in the first place. People's heads are filled with all sorts of disney type bullshit about love and legacy and people figuring life out when it's all a blatant lie made by people who don't have the slightest clue why we're here or what life is all about.

I have to agree. For a very long time I've only rarely been talking to people. When I do say something to someone I don't know whether they'll smile or punch me in response. We get a better idea of what's right and wrong the more people we talk to. It's just like how a statistical mean value is considered better if it has been computed from a larger amount of samples. Of course, these samples have to be random. In the same way, it must be important that there is a great diversity among the people we talk to.

I have no social skills to speak of so I don't talk to people much outside of internet discussions so I know where you're coming from. I have to agree that being in an environment with diversity whether it be ideology, sexuality, ethnicity etc. is a good thing and I think the internet has helped in this immensely.

Those who are born higher than us and aren't cogs in the machine, do they really have it better than us?

They have a higher standard of living and quality of life and they can actually impact society as an individual. Not that it matters anyway, a cog in the machine and the operator are both equally worthless and there's no taking your wealth or achievements with you.

Imagine that this is the second life we live and that we have only forgotten about the previous life we lived. Imagine that this previous life took place at the same point in history as this one. Imagine that in this previous life, we were part of the "lucky winners", born so high that we weren't even cogs in the machine. Now, imagine that when we die this time, we regain our memories of our previous lives, so that we remember both lives simultaneously. Lastly, imagine that we must choose to re-live one of these two lives. Would it be an easy choice?

I don't think it would be an easy choice but that isn't because of the standard of living/quality of life difference, it's because of the people in their lives. Objectively speaking, yes, people born into wealth at the top rungs of society have it better. Granted money can't buy happiness or love but it's one hell of a head start.