LGBT in Video Games

[Aprilgold]

*Snip*

All very well argued. While I maintain my reservations regarding the casual use of words with particularly problematic connotations, I'm certainly aware of the importance of context.
The trap of context is that context is so incredibly easy to misconstrue, as well.
In short, I've certainly been known to say "that's so gay" in a joking fashion. But when I have, I've said it in the company of people I know will comprehend the underlying intention and sincerity (or rather, lack thereof) of that comment.

What I'm trying to say is that while I don't think people should spend their waking hours constantly fearing to cause somebody else offense (hey, sometimes offense can be a catalyst of substantial discourse and betterment), I do think it's worth considering how one might cause needless offense, brought upon by something said or done without forethought.
I realise that is an argument of relative value as well, but I can't think of a much better way to put it.

...but no, no it wasn't my intention to claim authority on linguistics. Although I certainly see how I might've come off that way!
I have a tendency of getting overly didactic. Sorry about that.

Yaay, another post I can say that was 100% worth my time and was completely awesome.

 

[chadachada123]

*Snip*

All very well argued. While I maintain my reservations regarding the casual use of words with particularly problematic connotations, I'm certainly aware of the importance of context.
The trap of context is that context is so incredibly easy to misconstrue, as well.
In short, I've certainly been known to say "that's so gay" in a joking fashion. But when I have, I've said it in the company of people I know will comprehend the underlying intention and sincerity (or rather, lack thereof) of that comment.

What I'm trying to say is that while I don't think people should spend their waking hours constantly fearing to cause somebody else offense (hey, sometimes offense can be a catalyst of substantial discourse and betterment), I do think it's worth considering how one might cause needless offense, brought upon by something said or done without forethought.
I realise that is an argument of relative value as well, but I can't think of a much better way to put it.

...but no, no it wasn't my intention to claim authority on linguistics. Although I certainly see how I might've come off that way!
I have a tendency of getting overly didactic. Sorry about that.

Haha, we all can get a little...excited or wordy at times. You held yourself well, and I must say, thanks for this discussion!

I didn't think about the "needlessness" of offense, and, I suppose, you're totally right. We shouldn't go out of our way to say words that could be taken negatively without necessity, and I should have distinguished between this type of common courtesy and the other case of constantly fearing to cause offense, hah.

 

[Dethenger]

I'm pretty sure one of the characters in Catherine is a transsexual. They hint at it, anyway, you wouldn't be able to tell otherwise; they never make a big deal out of it, other than cracking jokes at one of their friends who doesn't know and is attracted to her.

 

[Xixikal]

Well if you're a guy, yea. Women have a biology different than the male, mentally and physically which is more conducive to bisexuality.

This is all coming from anecdotal evidence, but growing up in high school, when I'd hit up parties, girls would make out with each other and explore each other in the name of booze and glory for all the pleased men watching. No one ever thought twice about it. The girls liked kissing each other, the boys liked watching, but at no point did I ever turn to one of my buddies and ask him if he wanted to go at it. The thought never crossed my mind, and I'm almost certain not theirs.

Guys and girls just think differently, and that's okay. I just think we have to be honest with ourselves and accept who we are, and bisexuality just seems like a no-no for a guy. That's not to say experimentation is out of the question, of course not. Do what you need to do to learn about yourself, but the male road only travels two ways.

Girls will kiss each other because it's socially more acceptable and because they believe it will gain them attention. So really, you're promoting a double standard.

I understand that women and men think differently, but we're all human and, as such, we are all affected by the culture we live in. You probably didn't consider the possibility of making out with your man-friends because homosexual behaviour in males is conditioned against in western culture. And that is exactly the kind of thing that makes it hard for homosexuals, bisexuals and transgendered individuals to express themselves without fear of condemnation.

In the end, it is really your opinion that bisexuality in males doesn't exist - which is fine, because we're all entitled to an opinion. However, I believe it is wrong that you claim with biased certainty to know the feelings and thoughts of others, especially when you have no relation to them in terms of your own sexual preference.

 

[Kyoufuu]

I have never understood the need for the L in LGBT. Doesn't the L fall under the G?

 

[chaosyoshimage]

Take Dumbledore as an example, did it help his character in the slightest bit that J.K. Rowling explained that he was gay? Of course it didn't damage his character, but didn't add anything neither. It just...didn't do anything.

Well, it did add a little bit as I felt it implied that him and Grindelwald were more than just friends (I think J.K. Rowling implied that as well), therefore adding quite a bit more weight to his past.

 

[Yopaz]

I honestly don't care as long as it doesn't make the character annoying. It adds nothing nor does it ruin anything. It's just meaningless in my opinion.

 

[The Gnome King]

I understand the Kinsian scale pretty well, and for the most part it makes sense to me. That being said I just think that guys in particular can't really exist in the middle, it doesn't make sense given the male psychology. We're too aggressive and assertive with our base instincts to allow for any kind of flexibility with our primal needs and urges.

Wow. Stereotypes and misguided assumptions abound; I don't even know where to start. You honestly think men can't be attracted to both men and women?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/23/health/23bisexual.html

The latest research would indicate that you're wrong. Of course, as a bisexual male that has been having sex with men and women on a regular basis for over a decade (and who is completely comfortable with being attracted to both men and women) I don't need a study to verify that I do, in fact, exist. Fancy that.

That being said, I feel like I am coming off as some redneck homophobe.

At least you're self-aware in that department.

Bisexuality and Transgendered people... well they don't seem to have much of a grasp on their own life. If you can't even come to terms with what you want in life, especially at its most primal, then I cannot see a healthy mental condition.

I can't really speak for transgendered people, but as a bisexual I can tell you that I'm quite comfortable with what I want in life. Even if you aren't.

 

[Kyoufuu]

I have never understood the need for the L in LGBT. Doesn't the L fall under the G?

I never understood how gay meant lesbian or homosexual instead of happy, or why fag doesn't mean a cigarette anymore.

This is exactly what I am questioning. Why differentiate between the two?

 

[MPerce]

I'm perfectly fine with gay people. I've yet to hear a compelling argument as to what's so bad about homosexuality.
The gaming community as a whole seems pretty cool with it to me, except for the 12 year olds in COD and Halo.

 

[klausaidon]

Wow, I'm amazed at how this thread took off! I think I have enough opinion's to write a book! Thanks everyone!

 

[Therumancer]

Id like to see more gay/lesbian/transgender chars in games, I mean I'm a straight male every day of my life, sometimes I like to see things from different angles, besides, I find lesbians adorable, not in a condescending way or anything, I mean I just would much rather see a romantic story about 2 women instead of a man and a woman, sex is optional.

The only game I know of with a transgender char is Neir and I heard they really toned that down for the american release... although I'm not sure if she was a transgender or just had both sexes.

There kindasorta is Poison from Final Fight, released in 1989, she was originally a girl but then Capcom sat back and thought that hitting a girl is kinda back, so depending on which regional release you're playing she's either a pre-op or post-op transgender (and yes, that has even more unfortunate implications). But I think that by now she's been quietly retconned into being a full female again as by now punching girls no longer is an issue in gaming.

That said, I agree with the sentiment that gaming could use more LBGT characters, and just have that be an ~aspect~ of their character and not the focal point, well, unless it fits in the story.

There already are a few characters like that, such as Eagle from the very first Street Fighter and Capcom vs. SNK 2, who is gay. Funcom's The Longest Journey also features about three non-straight character and not a big deal is made about that point. So if you do some digging around you can find plenty of LBGT characters, but very few of them have been in games that topped the charts and even less have been main characters.

Actually the situation about Poison's gender has been answered:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_(Final_Fight)

The creator has stated that in the JAPANESE version Poison is a crossdressing man, with his junk tucked in. In the North American version, Poison is a post-op transexual, having been a man at one time but is now functionally female due to surgery.

This confusion is one of the reasons why Poison has not appeared in many games, since they would have to write it a bit differantly based on region due to how they wrote it in previous games.

Given the character's interest in Cody, Poison is apparently gay (as opposed to a straight crossdresser) in the Japanese version.

Either way this is a LGBT character, since it hits one of those designations either way.

 

[Therumancer]

Take Dumbledore as an example, did it help his character in the slightest bit that J.K. Rowling explained that he was gay? Of course it didn't damage his character, but didn't add anything neither. It just...didn't do anything.

Well, it did add a little bit as I felt it implied that him and Grindelwald were more than just friends (I think J.K. Rowling implied that as well), therefore adding quite a bit more weight to his past.

Well sort of, J.K. Rowling was basically trolling. A lot has been said about this.

As far as I've been able to piece together Harry Potter was under fire for a long time for promoting satanism/witchcraft, and for apparently veiled homosexual content. If you can dig you can find all kinds of stuff from weirdos dissecting it on one or both of these points. To be honest most of it is stupid, but I have to admit once or twice someone reported an innuendo or whatever that could have been something if you were really looking for it, but really you'd have to read the books with a level of witch hunting homophobia that even I, hardly this site's most politically correct or tolerant poster on this subject do not possess since I didn't get any of this on my readings.

When J.K. Rowling was finishing up her books and had made more money than she could ever spend, and was in a fairly risk-free position, she intentionally wrote the Grindlewald thing to get attention because oddly Dumbledore was pretty much the one character who virtually never got accused of being some kind of bizzare gay innuendo. She actually had no intention for him to be gay, but was messing with a certain group of people.

When first asked if Dumbledore was gay (since it's not overt in the books) her initial answer was "If any of my characters was gay it would probably be Dumbledore", which is an indirectly denial. Later due to all the people pestering her, and because she knew it would get a lot of goats, she declared Dumbledore gay, meaning that yes... all those witchhunters can now say there is homosexuality in there, but it doesn't matter since it's already one of the most successful series of all time, and she's so rich what people think doesn't matter. Besides it let's the LGBT community have their piece of the universe also so they can't
claim to have been neglected.

Arguably Dumbledore was not gay when the books were written and published, but was declared gay retroactively.

One thing to understand about this is that J.K. Rowling started writing these for her kids when they were pretty young, they got more involved as they grew up a bit. Obviously homosexuality and political statements were not part of the plan, since by all accounts she never expected them to get this popular when she created the characters (though she was rich and famous by the end). It's certainly true that when Dumbledore was first created the plan was not to have him as Harry's gay headmaster and adoptive father figure.

I personally tend to think the most accurate way to see Dumbledore is pretty much "he's gay if you want him to be", which is pretty much what I take JK Rowling's attitude as given her various statements. She started out pretty much saying "no" and then changed it to "yes" because she kept getting pestered from the way it seemed to me.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

I don't give a fuck. People can be attracted to whatever, none of my business.

 

[Pegghead]

Got no problem with folks who are LGB or T, as for games that feature them I understand one of the Persona titles features both a trans-man and homosexual male.

 

[Takolin]

As a gay man, I'm not opposed to the idea of more LGBT characters in games, but I'm not going to make a big deal if they aren't there because more often than not, the orientation of a character does nothing for story. You could build a case for RPGs or games with RPG elements, and some of those games are setting an example that it's "OK to be gay".

I personally haven't played a game yet where I thought: "Ooooh this game would be so much better if character X was gay rather than straight."

 

[shurikenshado4]

True man. Just don't advertise and you're fine. I still tolerate LBGT thou

 

[sora91111]

I have no problems at all. Your sexual orientation is just one aspect of someone's life and odds are it doesn't define you, though it may affect what you do or what you like. That's my opinion, though I wander why that would even come up during a multiplayer atmosphere?

 

[Twilight_guy]

I don't judge people based on sexual preference. It's one part of a larger whole and all.

The general attitude of the gaming community however, is negative.

 

[Vuljatar]

I really just don't care one way or the other. But if you are going to put LGBT characters in games, they must not be flaming stereotypes, and they must not turn the game (or even part of the game) into a Very Special Episode about tolerance or somesuch nonsense.

They should be regular people, the same as anyone else, only a male character has a boyfriend instead of a girlfriend for example.