LGBT issues in the western world.

[Vault101]

Do you think that it perhaps because being homosexual is not something thats ( always/clearly) visible, whereas being trans is much more visible?

I think theres still a vewry strong "eww weird" factor (because they do somtimes undergoe procedures that induce a change in the body) as I said before most people understand gay people more or less

but most people you ask wouldn't understand what it means to be trans (and probably mix it up with transvestite) not to mention getting it mixed up with homosexuality [footnote/]not a trans person, only what I've heard[/footnote]

[quote/]
Sexuality is kinda something that confuses me, and probably I'm going to receive a lot of flak for this, but there does seems to be gay ( sexuality ) and gay ( culture ), and these are not the same thing, sure there may be an overlap, but not everyone who is gay is 'scene' and I'm sure not everyone who is 'scene' is gay. For my own part I'm attracted to humans... thats about as far as I can narrow it, 'bi' doesn't even come close. ow does Bisexual cover a pre-op FtM having a relationship with a Drag-Queen?[/quote]

I imagine culture comes from not only the need to group due to persecution...but also simply wanting to be around other similar people and find dates and such...theres also other by products (like aparently house music got big in gay bars) I'm not sure how aparant that is now

there is the stereotype of straight women going to gay bars to escape douches....this may or may not be seen favorably particually if they are acting rowdy...its a ticky subject

 

[SadisticFire]

[
Wait, you seriously have to get diagnosed for a mental illness before you can get a sex change in the UK? REALLY?! Wow, that's fucked up. That would never fly in the US (I don't think). Not because we're any less bigoted, but because we put A LOT of stock in personal autonomy. Life liberty, etc. etc.

To be fair gender dystopia is a mental defect. Not that it's wrong, but it's maladaptive. You're in the wrong sex, and need to be the other. It should be approved by a professional(An unbiased one!) before you should get a sex change, because so many people often go through sex changes, realize that they weren't actually suffering from gender dystopia, and change back lose even more money or stuck something they didn't want to be. Or worse, suffer injuries or deaths. It's important to have it be available, but it's equally important to have confirmation. It's a big choice after all.

On different point of your post, my trans friend is having difficulties with her transition, but that's mostly because she lives in the heart of Texas, which isn't a huge surprise.

On topic: My father gives me a lot of shit because i'm starting to appear more feminine as time goes on, telling me it's weird and i shouldn't do it, as well as give me shit when ever I let my friends paint my nails. Not that I could really do much about it, he does so much for me so I figure I might as well let him have his way for a few more years before I move out.

On an off topic: What's with chrome thinking dystopia, maladaptive not thinking they're words.

EDIT: Forgot to add a bit more about the area I actually live in. Northern Oregon, pretty accepting of trans/gay as you'd imagine beyond my father, apparently. My school makes 0 fuss about it from what I've seen. Granted I wouldn't know too well, since I avoid the major social cliques, but I haven't been given shit for how I look or what I do and neither have my friends.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

You gave two reasons

1) That is how kids are made

Irrelevant. Does not make variants abnormal.

It is very relevant. Reproduction is an *essential* part of life. Darwin's theory of evolution, where he describes "natural selection" is perfectly demonstrated by homosexuals of any species. It is an evolutionary dead end. The genes stop with the homosexual individual since they cannot reproduce. Homosexuals are "naturally selected" to go extinct within a single lifetime and their genes don't get passed on.

2) That is how nature works

Nature does not say anywhere "Homosexuality is abnormal".

Insistence on the importance of reproduction and survival are personal values. Nature is impartial.

I haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about.

Circular logic. You assume it is a variation from the only norm to prove it is abnormal. To assume heterosexuality is the only norm is to assume your conclusion.

Heterosexuality is the norm, as evidenced by the fact that 95-98% of the species are heterosexual.

If everyone were male we'd all go extinct too. Your argument is BS.

Yes, if everyone were male we'd go extinct. What does that prove? It says nothing about anything I said.

And red hair is uncommon. Does not make it unnatural. So third argument down.

You what? You're comparing hair colour, which has no impact on reproductive ability, to homosexuality? You haven't argued anything. Third argument down! God, you're an amazing debater. You declare something invalid, and BAM, that's it.

You can think whatever you will, but ultimately homosexuality is a variation, a mutation, a twist on the norm and nature. That doesn't imply that there's anything wrong with homosexuality, just that it isn't normal. Think it's normal all you want, 95-98% of the entire species must be abnormal then!

 

[Jesterscup]

You gave two reasons

1) That is how kids are made

Irrelevant. Does not make variants abnormal.

It is very relevant. Reproduction is an *essential* part of life. Darwin's theory of evolution, where he describes "natural selection" is perfectly demonstrated by homosexuals of any species. It is an evolutionary dead end. The genes stop with the homosexual individual since they cannot reproduce. Homosexuals are "naturally selected" to go extinct within a single lifetime and their genes don't get passed on.

2) That is how nature works

Nature does not say anywhere "Homosexuality is abnormal".

Insistence on the importance of reproduction and survival are personal values. Nature is impartial.

I haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about.

Circular logic. You assume it is a variation from the only norm to prove it is abnormal. To assume heterosexuality is the only norm is to assume your conclusion.

Heterosexuality is the norm, as evidenced by the fact that 95-98% of the species are heterosexual.

If everyone were male we'd all go extinct too. Your argument is BS.

Yes, if everyone were male we'd go extinct. What does that prove? It says nothing about anything I said.

And red hair is uncommon. Does not make it unnatural. So third argument down.

You what? You're comparing hair colour, which has no impact on reproductive ability, to homosexuality? You haven't argued anything. Third argument down! God, you're an amazing debater. You declare something invalid, and BAM, that's it.

You can think whatever you will, but ultimately homosexuality is a variation, a mutation, a twist on the norm and nature. That doesn't imply that there's anything wrong with homosexuality, just that it isn't normal. Think it's normal all you want, 95-98% of the entire species must be abnormal then!

You know, I know other people like you, generally I call them homophobes ( of transphobes, or whatever based on the current subject its homophobe ).

"you're abnormal, not natural, but it's ok for me to say it because SCIENCE!!!!!

I mean "there is nothing wrong with it, it's just not normal"?

So firstly, actually the % figure is higher, but thats beside the point

Secondly were it a genetic trait the "gay gene" would've died out a long long time ago, but its still here, if it's a mutation then it's one that keeps reappearing. In fact by this argument it can be argued that the trait must be SO important to the human species for it to keep reoccurring. Studies have also shown Homosexuality in several mammal species, so it's not a human only thing. and if x percent of a species being homosexual is repeated over and over again then it is normal.
Are you actually a sexual biologist, or can you point to scientific studies? Because if not you're being homophobic.

Thirdly, you took a reasonable, interesting and fun conversation totally off-topic so you could say your piece about homosexuality.

Now before you try and tell me it's not, let me point out to you I receive this sort of pseudo-scientific based abuse on a regular basis. the fact you can try and twist your hatred into a way that you feel makes it acceptable, does not make it acceptable.

 

[Lieju]

I'm Finnish, and it really depends on where you live.
I know several gay/trans people who have been driven out of their home and even though I'm pretty lucky I've still been bullied over it and people act offended if I don't tell them immediately I'm not heterosexual.
And I get the kind of 'You just need to find the right man to heal you' comments, and I've been attacked over it.

It's worse for transpeople though I'd say many people don't differentiate between gay and trans, considering how often I've been told that I 'want to be a man' or 'have the mind of a man' or whatever.

I am generally open about being attracted to women, if it comes up, but not about my gender identity, which can be mostly described as "?????woman I guess?".
I do just lie about it actually, and tell people I am a woman.

I'd just prefer people didn't make a big deal about it, but people do (because I'm not feminine and have been confused to a man at times), often rudely, and I have no interest trying to explain things I'm not even sure myself about to some random arseholes.

Why do people care about my sex/gender that much? Why do random people on the street feel the need to loudly speculate on my sexual organs or ask me such questions??

I'm okay with it with kids, but what does it matter to people?