Lies they teach you in HIstory class

[Therumancer]

Snip snip snip

In theory an American Citizen can be kicked off his land by the goverment and forcibly relocated for reasons of resources/public works/and now apparently economic development.

(I'm sorry I tend to get pretty vague when I explain things I have forgotten the examples or certain facts of)

The thing I left out of the snip :

Can an American citizen
have is house set on fire and his company forcefully overtaken by the government if he went to jury duty on a fixed trial and refused to take the bribe and eventually stop the verdict from being what the government wanted?
By law I mean

I know you know what I'm talking about but I hope this makes my statement a little clearer

What?

That question seems fairly insane to me.

Yes, there has always been govermental corruption, and I'm sure at some point it's touched on Native American issues like it has on anything else.

Without knowing the other side of what your talking about it's hard to really form an opinion. However if someone is claiming that the above happened, typically you need to listen to what the other guys are saying, and then the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Just because someone peeved with the goverment or the way things turned out claims something does not nessicarly make those claims 100% true. People (especially those with an axe to grind for whatever reason) will at least load things in their own favor.

To answer the question literally though, outside of the arena of American indians we did do some very similar things a long time ago. See there were these guys we referred to as "Whigs" after the American Revolution. Simply put they were British crown royalists. To say that we were brutal in disposing of them would be an understatement, and the rules we had established in things like the Constitution didn't apply.

They wouldn't bother to have bribed a jury member or burn down their house to coerce them though. They just would have threatened to label them a whig sympathizer and put them on trial next.

-

Also when you hear some of these stories about govermental corruption (like what you describe above) you need to use a degree of common sense. Honestly if the goverment and community and arrayed against someone like that, then it wouldn't need to resort to tactics like burning down a house or whatever.

If things are that loaded to begin with, they could always contrieve some reason to just yank the person from the Jury (there are more protections preventing the goverment from loading juries today than there were back in the old days, and even still there can be political contreversy over things like the OJ Simpson or Rodney King trial when it comes to the goverment wanting to force a certain verdict to prevent an outcry... both cases were criticized for tampering being a possibility despite the protections).

See, you might offer the guy bribe money, but if he doesn't take it, you just say that the guy was compromised (maybe stick a forged letter or newspaper where-ever he is in the jury), boot him, and replace him. Sure he might scream and yell about it, but it's not like he's not going to make noise if you burn his bloody house down. If they have the support to burn down the house to begin with it means there were better ways to go about it.

In general I tend to call 'BS' in many cases when accusations of corruption are too flamboyant or obvious. Anyone in a position to exploit the system needs to at least maintain pretensions of legitimacy.

 

[Blood_Lined]

Here's another.
World War one didn't end until 1919.
which also throws out the 'fact' that 1919 was supposed to be the only year when there wasn't a war :|

Yea, I think I remember something about that. Also,in the US we claim that WWII started in 1941 when Europe puts the date at 1939,while Hitler gained power even before that.

Have you been to a history class? 41 was when the US joined the war, not when it started. It started in 39 when Britain declared war on Germany after they invaded Poland. Hitler gaining power was not the beginning of WW2, he was elected long before (31 but I could easily be wrong about that)

I actually heard the reverse, I thought that Germany invaded Poland in 1939 and then declared war on Britain.

did you watch family guy season 7 episode 4. becouse i think that's where you got that information from...not an insult by the way

No offense taken, but I don't watch Family Guy as an FYI. This was something I heard from history class, hence the topic.

 

[Highlandheadbanger]

I am trying to compile a list of lies or misinformation they teach you in History class. So far this doesn't even apply to current events which would make this list far more interesting. Do you have any you think you want to add or any rebuttals. Also note for those in other countries, this is written from an American perspective.
Lie #1
Communism and Fascism are opposites. The truth is they are both totalitarian governments run by dictators who oppose individuality. In fact the Nazis were the National Socialist German Worker'S Party.
Lie #2
Europe was better under Stalin than Hitler. The fact is Stalin was responsible for more deaths in Europe than Hitler was.
Lie #3
Inflation is a natural process of the Economy. The truth is inflation can be avoided or at the very least minimized if the Government didn't continue to over mint money and if we actually had money that was backed by something.

Actuallty mate, as a History/Political Science Double Major I feel a need to nick in and correct a few common mistakes and misconceptions regarding the Historical Record.

#1: Communism and Facism aren't the same. In fact, they cannot even be classified the same way because they are totally different structures: an economic and political system. Facism is a form of government. Communism is a form of economic policy. The Soviet Union existed as an Oligarchy and later a Despotism (I'll discuss this in a minute) while enforcing a strict Communist economy. There are such things as Communist Democracies, Communist Republics, and Communist Theocracies, but (like Jello and Band-Aids) people associate the product with the best known brand name: Communist Dictatorships.

#2: This one cannot be cleared up so easily as the first or third because you're establishing a qualitative inconstant as fact. This is really just a matter of opinion based upon what I'm assuming to be the personal prejudices of a(I'm just guessing here)a Caucasian, Yank male. Part of this thought of the Soviets being better then the Nazis may derive from the fact that the Soviets helped carry the Allies through World War 2, but I believe part of it may stem from the rationalization behind the killings. While Stalin's killings mostly derive from political reasons and more prominently from his acute paranoia (he had the psychiatrist who diagnosed him murdered as a conspirator against him), Hitler's derived from a drive for eugenics, committing genocide rationalized as the destruction of inferior humans and humanoid creatures.

#3: Since we established that you're probably a Yank (not anything wrong with that lad, I live in Atlanta now), we base this upon the United States fiscal policies and systems of your country. There was a time when we were on both the gold and silver standards, the value of the dollar went up and down based upon the success of the mining industry and the discorvery of mineral deposits. Now the currency is backed by nothing more then trust in the soundness of the banks and the economy. The issue of printing money is more complex an issue then simply doing or not doing it good/evil, it's an issue of power. Whether the debtor or debtee, the rich or the poor are served in either increasing or reducing the currency circulated. I could spend hours explaining the intricacies of the issue, but frankly I find economics understandable, but monotonous, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[PatientGrasshopper]

Lincoln really didn't give two shits about slavery, really.

My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.

It's is fairly important to note that without Russian intervention in World War II, holding up resources in the East weakened other areas. Misinformation feed to Nazi Germany also helped free up resources along the French coast for D-Day, by suggesting landings would be happening in alternate locations.

Exactly, calling Lincoln the great emancipator is a misnomer, he did it for political purposes.

Democracy is a form of Capitalism...and Fascism is Socialist with some Capitalistic elements.

What? This makes no sense. Democracy is a form of selecting the people who are given government power and Capitalism is an economic system; Fascism is an ideology where the the purpose of the workers is to serve the state and Socialism is an ideology where the purpose of the state is to serve the workers.

At least gold is measurable whereas the Government printed money has nothing to say how much it is worth.

Government printed money has basically the same thing as gold to say what it is worth: the value placed on it by the free market.

Democracy is a form of Capitalism, Communism is a form of Socialism, and Fascism is Socialist with some Capitalistic elements.

Democracy is how goverment is selected, Capitalism is an economic system. You can have Capitalist dictaorships, for example, Dubai. You need to do your homework.

I was tought in school that the Great Irish Famine, in the middle of the 19th century, which wiped more than half the population of Ireland, was basically Britian's fault.

yea the Irish blame everything on Britain, a natural disaster, Briatain did it.

No--the Irish blame the British for (1) creating the conditions that allowed for a natural disaster by economically exploiting the Irish to the point where there was no diversity in their food source which made them vulnerable to a disaster in the first place and then (2) mismanaging the disaster response since, you know--the British government was in control of Ireland.

Alright, in my effort to simplify the political spectrum I made the blunder I have been trying to avoid, making it 1 dimensional. So yes you are correct about economic systems vs. political systems.

Yes gold is only worth what we say it is but it works on a natural upply and demand ystems, where as our money does not.

Regardless of to whom it is held, it does not say "no God in government", it says "Government will not establish or control a church".

EDIT: Fixed quote markup.

Right--and part of not establishing or controlling a church is keeping God out of government to the extent that allowing God in government establishes or controls a church.

However you should not prohibit someone from taking about their religion, there should be prayers in public school, just not sanctioned by the school, they should allow it for the kids who want to.

 

[Ham Blitz]

Most of those facts were told to me in AP US History and AP European History. The only one told differently was the communism one. The true idea of communism that was never achieved was different from fascism, though the attempts made by coutries have done attempts that end up being more towards fascist, though claiming to be communism.

 

[Carl The Manicorn]

here's one from my mom.

The Founding Fathers actually all didn't sign the Declaration of Independence all at the same time. They all stopped in at different times through out the year to sign it.

 

[PatientGrasshopper]

Honestly, the biggest lie most people seem to be getting told these days is about the American school system. Around 75% of people posting in this thread start with "I heard that in American schools..."

People need to stop talking about things they don't know anything about.

I went to American school both public and private, I would say when I went to private the lies were less prevalent but still around. It i because of the textbooks more than the teachers generally.

I am trying to compile a list of lies or misinformation they teach you in History class. So far this doesn't even apply to current events which would make this list far more interesting. Do you have any you think you want to add or any rebuttals. Also note for those in other countries, this is written from an American perspective.
Lie #1
Communism and Fascism are opposites. The truth is they are both totalitarian governments run by dictators who oppose individuality. In fact the Nazis were the National Socialist German Worker'S Party.
Lie #2
Europe was better under Stalin than Hitler. The fact is Stalin was responsible for more deaths in Europe than Hitler was.
Lie #3
Inflation is a natural process of the Economy. The truth is inflation can be avoided or at the very least minimized if the Government didn't continue to over mint money and if we actually had money that was backed by something.
Lie #4
The civil war was fought primarily over slavery. The fact is, although slavery was on issue,the main one was state's rights vs. Federal power. If the main focus was slavery than states like Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri would have joined the South, they had slaves and were Northern states, and additionally the Emancipation Proclamation didn't apply to them.

to the OP:

1) That is largely a semantical argument. The political spectrum isnt some linear plot, but goes much deeper. Stalinism (which is not Marxism) had some things in common with the Nazi regime (all power to a centralized dictator [something Marx, Trotsky, and the Menesheviks [all communists] opposed]), and in many ways they were polar opposites (economic planning and distribution, relations to business interests [after all, capitalists had a pretty favourable relationship with fascists until they invaded Poland]). Even 2d or 3d political spectrums can be vague or unsatisfactory. It is a cheap (and usually ineffective) trick to try and say "there are two political positions! Everyone that doesnt agree with me is a fascist!"

2) Yes, Stalin killed more people, but you've missed the point. The thing about Hitler was why and how he was killing people. I'm not defending Stalin, he was a bloody murderer who killed millions and created an oppressive regime of tyranny. But Stalin wasn't out to create a master race, or erradicate minorities (who were still treated badly in the USSR, but never anywhere near as bad as Nazi Germany). If you are trying to argue about mere numbers of deaths, someone might as well make the argument that letting Hitler win would have been preferable to fighting him, as fewer lives would be lost than in the war.
Also, Stalin had more time. Deaths divided by years in power, Hitler gets the trophy again.

3) There is a bit of a problem in that we are past the age in which something like gold (which has trivial value anyway, it doesnt exactly provide high utility [except to scientists for electrical devices, but face it, this isnt the source of its value]) can be readily used to back currency - because there isnt very much of it on this planet, and it is already almost all concentrated in the hands of the people that you think you are taking a stand against by insisting on a gold standard (US/Chinese government, and billionaires).
But I do agree, that the US inadvertantly stumbled on a form of monetary imperialism back in the 1970's when they became the world reserve currency, and have been exporting worthless paper in exchange for the rest of the worlds precious natural resources (plus causing environmental destruction with their wasteful use of resources [suburban sprawl, 99% of US consumption becomes trash in 6 months]), but this is simply an argument against the American way of life (as well as the concentration of wealth, which is beyond ridiculous and unfair in the US).


4) Yes, the civil war was about States rights. The STATES RIGHTS TO OWN SLAVES! You buffoon. You racist buffoon. The South was getting uppity because they feared that the federal government would roll in and rewrite their laws to abolish slavery, so they demanded that they were able to be in charge of their own laws, and make decisions about abolition on their own. Yes it was about slavery: pick up a South Carolina newspaper circa 1861 and see what it says (try the library)! They even state, bluntly, that they are protecting their right to own slaves, time and again, and only in recent years bigots with the confederate flag on their bumper have tried to change this to 'states rights' in some sort of redneck historical revisionism, devoid of facts.

Agreed, the political spectrum i far more complex than people seem to realize, and for the record I never said communism and Fascism were the same, I said they were more alike than different. I ill also give you that there has never been a truly Communist country, but all those that have claimed to be dictatorships that have similarities to fascism.

Ye both men were bloodthirsty dictators, I was pointing out the misconception that people seem to think that when the Nazis were gone everything was going to be alright now that the soviets were taking care of things.

As far as gold goes you hit the nail on the head, it is the very fact that there isn't much of it that make it valuable, whereas our current monetary system juts also the government to print more money whenever they feel like it,driving u p inflation.

Yes, slavery was an issue, it wasn't the only issue though, but it i the only one they teach you about in school. The fact is though the Union cared more about winning the war than ending slavery.

snip

#1 They were essentially similar in practice, which I think e agree on.
#2 I wouldn't cal either man a good guy, we just think of Stalin as a hero since he fought on our side.
#3 I will agree, yes economic does have some ripples now and then, and yes there are more issues than over minting, that was just one major example.
#4 Yes, the civil war had several issues, slavery was not the sole one, I think you were getting at it when you said it started out as states rights but the slavery issue became more prominent, but I am saying the Union was very political about how they did the war, trying to appease.


Also, as an added note, years ago when I still used dictionaries in book form I looked up Fascism and it aid something to the effect of a system run by fascists, so I looked up fascist and it said roughly, someone who believe in fascism, so for a while I never got a straight answer on what Fascism was.

Lie #3
Inflation is a natural process of the Economy. The truth is inflation can be avoided or at the very least minimized if the Government didn't continue to over mint money and if we actually had money that was backed by something.

I know this one is incorrect, Inflation happens automatically when the cost of living goes up, economic growth, changes in supply, and so on, there is too many conditions that causes it and it almost inevitable.

What he is trying to say is lets say on a gold or silver standard were we dont print money like we have been if there is only so much money and that stays the same then prices wont go up as much because people wont be able to afford it

Regardless, you'll still have inflation as long as we deal with money. The only way to not have an inflation, is to not have currency what so ever.

Yes slight inflation but nothing like what e do have.

Japans sneak attack at pearl harbour, the US govt had already cracked the Japanese embassies code, and new what the ambassador was going to deliver a declaration of war, on the day of an attack, so Roosevelt had him stood up in the waiting room out side his office for 6 hours!! until confirmation of the attack came thru, he then railled against their cowardly undeclared attack.

The US government aint the only one that with heald information either, Churchill kept what he knew under his big round hat.

Also, all of these 'lies' are made clear in an AP US History course, which everyone should be forced to take.

In the US I'm assuming lol, tbh it really shouldnt be required since people should learn to research it themselves, rather than being hand fed it.

Agreed, I look this shit up myself, why can't everyone else...and not everyone has the brains to take AP US History...hence it being a AP CLASS!!!

There are different type of intelligence, the type they test you on in school generally is just one type.

How about this, to add something to the discussion rather than just ragging on the OP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
(Narrated by Viggo Mortenson!)

That was interesting

That Plymouth Plantation was the first colony. Even if we ignore Jamestown, there is still St. Augustine (1565). But it belonged to the Spanish, so it deserves no mention at all.

Exactly.

1 no they are different communism cant work without democracy and fascism elects a ruler and they rule for life and the National Socialist German WorkerS Party was just a name there was a German communist party which he killed a million members of during his rise to power and his platform was part made up of elect me so the communists won't rule

2 also even though hitler was evil he revolutionised Germany into a superpower from being a poor army less nation

3 it can be a natural effect like with oil when it started going down it cost more to grow and ship stuff making things more expensive

4 it was a big factor the south was made on cheap slave labor if they lost them they would lose a LOT of money

5 ill add one slaves weren't gotten by whites they were gotten by blacks back then Africa was mainly tribes fighting each other when they attacked they took slaves when whites came they sold the extras to them

The thing about the blacks getting the slaves, yes this is true I do remember a brief mention of it in my History class but nothing more than that.

Lie #3
Inflation is a natural process of the Economy. The truth is inflation can be avoided or at the very least minimized if the Government didn't continue to over mint money and if we actually had money that was backed by something.

There are several different sources of inflation, that's not entirely true.

For example, say an resource needed to produce a certain good becomes rarer - it becomes more expensive, making the final good more expensive.

Another example is if a major company decides to increase its prices to increase its own profit margins - other companies will naturally follow the price rise.

There are literally hundreds of different sources of inflation, and most of them have nothing to do with the value of money at all, rather they are to do with the price of things money is used for.

If a certain good becomes more rare than the price of that good will increase but it doesn't necessarily effect all other prices.
If major companies increase their prices, another company could come along and ell things for cheaper and so more people would buy from them instead.

Here's one for you. Japan had been trying to surrender for months before the US dropped the A-bomb on them. It's believed that it was a power play to show Stalin that the US was the big boy in the yard.

I have heard this, fairly recently actually, even if that weren't the case though I have a real problem with the dropping of the bombs.

Communism and Fascism are nothing alike. Fascism takes his name from a roman symbol meaning rule and unity (planks held together with an axe at the fromnt) and what they want is to conquer and rule as they are greater than other races and deserve the power. Communism however is about the unity of people (similar) but here the rule goes to the average people,the workers and villages,and everything belongs to the government,unlike in fascist countries where the political and military men rule,and people can have wealth. The goal of fascist is to conquer and rule,the goal of commies is to live peacefully without foreign influence.

Romans were led by dictators,and they conquered and the known world,civilised it and made it a much better place for all,and we still take inspiration from them,so a dictator is not always bad.

Id say Stalin is as bad as Hitler,he killed 20 milion of his own people,while Hitler killed foreigners,but Hitler did crazy experiments and annihilated nations so they are about the same.

I agree,Inflation can and should be stopped but hey money makes the world go round.

We dont cover american history in our country that much,as we cover most of the worlds history,but i agree it wasent just about slavery

Sure there can be benevolent dictators, but it is always dangerous because since they have absolute power, it i hard to stop them if they become corrupt. There is a saying power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
It's not so much about who as worse as it is about acknowledging that they were both tyrants.

 

[JC175]

Lie #3
Inflation is a natural process of the Economy. The truth is inflation can be avoided or at the very least minimized if the Government didn't continue to over mint money and if we actually had money that was backed by something.

There are several different sources of inflation, that's not entirely true.

For example, say an resource needed to produce a certain good becomes rarer - it becomes more expensive, making the final good more expensive.

Another example is if a major company decides to increase its prices to increase its own profit margins - other companies will naturally follow the price rise.

There are literally hundreds of different sources of inflation, and most of them have nothing to do with the value of money at all, rather they are to do with the price of things money is used for.

If a certain good becomes more rare than the price of that good will increase but it doesn't necessarily effect all other prices.
If major companies increase their prices, another company could come along and ell things for cheaper and so more people would buy from them instead.

Not quite how it works, think about the price of petrol. If one station increases their prices, another station will also increase their own prices - this ensures them higher profits, as the quantity of petrol demanded is still the same, yet the prices are higher. If prices rise on a good all the way across the board, then demand will stay the same, as compared to a situation where one company raises prices which in turns alters the demand for the product.

Also, inflation is measured by comparing the price of a "basket" of a few hundred different types of goods and services each quarter. If the price of one good included in that "basket" increases during that time, then the official inflation rate will still increase, due to the fact that the cost incurred to consume the good that has risen in price alongside those that have not is still higher. Like I said in my original post, the sources of inflation come mainly from the goods purchased with money, not from the source of the money itself. Sure there might be inbalances every now and then with the amount of money printed but on the whole it's maintained incredibly well. Governments very rarely "print" money in an effort to increase the amount of cash in circulation.

You should read up on your economics before you make those kind of statements.

 

[PatientGrasshopper]

What nobody is taking into account is how little musso really cared about ideology so its almost impossible to say whether or not they are left or right wing so it really depends on the teachers viewpoint on the similarities. That is down to opinion. And the second one shouldnt be stalin was better than hitler, its not like they where both two great guys and we're trying to figure out who was best. Both where evil and europe was on the cusp of war or involved in war due to both of them.

Mind you a lie is Alexander Graham Bell did not invent the telephone, he just patented it, Antonio Meucci invented the telephone

Yes, and Thomas Crapper wasn't the first to invent the toilet.

Inflation is defined as, "an increase in the ratio of units of currency to total value of goods and services," so it's pretty funny to see people denying that the government constantly producing additional units of currency (on an assembly line) causes inflation.

Anyway, I remember learning that Hitler tried using the 1936 Olypics to prove that whites were good athletes, and that the United States used superior black athletes to prove him wrong. A year ago, I learned that in the "Nazi Olympics," Germany won more golds, more silvers, and more bronzes than any other country. Oh well.

Thank you,at least someone understands inflation.

Lie #3
Inflation is a natural process of the Economy. The truth is inflation can be avoided or at the very least minimized if the Government didn't continue to over mint money and if we actually had money that was backed by something.

Inflation is a natural process of the economy as its a result of growth, it can't be avoided without the economy stopping.

Quite right, since there is always more debt than actual wealth. Federal reserves make sure that new $$$ keep coming ans the nation (USA) gets more debt. Inflation is also a useful tool, if you have, say, hundreds of billions of debt. With accelerated infaltion it's easier to get rid of such a burden.

That doesn't make any sense. Ho doe debt stimulate the economy?

When there is debt, the federal reserve pumps more new money to the market. More money means more consumption. Consumption gives corporations a big money ejaculating hard on. All this works fine until someone wants some money back.

Exactly, until someone wants the money back, that is the issue.

My fellow Americans who think we've never lost a war, sorry to burst your bubble but read up about a little thing called the War of 1812.

Just another example of history being rewritten to be more favorable to one's own country. The Japanese do the same with WWII.

 

[Zombie Badger]

Lie#whatever - Columbus set off to discover that the world was round. He set off to find wealth, landed in America (decades after John Cabot, the first european), found a native tribe, and forced them all into slavery, dismembering those who failed, and ended up wiping the tribe out. In short, a monster.

 

[Zombie Badger]

Sure there can be benevolent dictators, but it is always dangerous because since they have absolute power, it i hard to stop them if they become corrupt. There is a saying power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
It's not so much about who as worse as it is about acknowledging that they were both tyrants.

The other problem with benevolent dictators is who takes over after they die. Castro just resigned in Cuba and the guy who took over has gone back on a lot of policies Castro held in place for decades.

 

[lostclause]

snip.

Hmm, you seem to overlook that Germany was guilty of many of the things you say the soviets did. Compulsory military service took place in Germany before the war even started (1935), dissidents were silenced by the gestapo and they encouraged emigration of Jews simply to get rid of them (before the holocaust began).
I think you summed it up perfectly by saying you wouldn't want live in either as they seem to be guilty of much the same crimes. Thanks for the info on the USSR by the way.

 

[Noobsalad]

1) Communism (defined by Karl Marx) is anarchy. There is no government (which is the definition of anarchy: an=without; -archy=government) The Dictatorship of the Proletariat was the stage that came before Communism. Stalin wanted to become an absolute dictator, so he did.

2) Fascism is where the government is in partial control of big businesses. Fascism was actually fairly close to Sovietism, but nobody wants to be associated with communism.

3) It isn't a lie per se, but books focus much more on the holocaust and the atrocities of Nazi Germany than on the disgusting terrors of the Japanese in WWII (Unit 731). Vivisection without anesthesia, biological warfare, doctors impregnated women so they could perform vivisections on pregnant women, etc.

 

[PatientGrasshopper]

Umm, Lie one is wrong. They are left and right wing, they're just opposite in names and methods. Just because they have a couple of similarities doesn't mean they're not opposites

Okay. You'vew been brainwashed, sorta. The political spectrum has 4 extreme ends: Communist, conservative, libertarian and anarchist. Stalinism is communism in practicality. (The difference between communism and socialism is that communism is a societal utopia, socialism is an economic system(its opposite is capitalism)) National socialism is NOT the opposite of communism or stalinist socialism. They are inversions of each other, mirror images, so to speak. Both systems support exteme goverment power, control religion, have a centalised power structure, control the economy and control all media.

I'd agree with this post if Stalinism was emphasized over the "socialism" and "communism".
Socialism is a useless word that can mean anything and should be removed from our vocabulary in favor of more clearly defined words, like Stalinism, Maoism, Troskyism.

As "socialists" they get along so terribly you might aswell throw the national socialists into the chaos aswell.

Here we might be facing a language barrier. Since English is not my first language, I may have used "socialism" a little crooked. My point was made, though.

To clarify, Let's list a few (trying! to say as little as possible about how good or bad they are.) :

Communism: A theory, according to which all wealth should be equally divided ando no one owns anything, thus creating a utopia, in which everyone does what is needed and gets what he needs. Communism is a theory, not a form of goverment, some govermenst just follow some common doctrines of communism. Marx himself stated that communisn is, and always will be, a utopia, it will never be truly reached. He also stated that whe should, however try to head for a communist society, as he believed that man is truly happy with no personal possessions at all. (An idea rooting back to the 1700s, first presented by J.J. Rousseau.)

Capitalism: Not a form of goverment either, it's a theory, according to which all men are born equal, and after that, you are on your own, free to do whatever you please, but without reducing anyone else's equal right to do so. Capitalism is based on the idea of possession. In a utopistic capitalist society, the first and foremost job for the goverment is to secure the citizen's possessions. The idea of capitalism was based on the ideas idealistic philosophers of the 18th century. Back then the resources in this world seemed limitless along with the expansion of the north american continent, so no one could ever own too much. Modern capitalism recognises this.

Socialism: A type of goverment which enforces strong economic control, often reduction in civil/human rights and detests religion. Socialism is based on communism. In practicality all left wing communism based socialism works rather poorly. Altogether socialism is a very wide word and dozens of variable types of goverment can be seen as socialist.

Libertarianism: A form of goverment/society system. Free market with a ginormous capital F. Capitalism is applied and goverment just makes sure you don't lose all of your money to guys with more guns than you.

Stalinism: Socialism, in which Iosif Stalin was made omipotent, AO, The one and only, father sun, single divinity. Uncle Joe said how high the olypmic team had to jump and the olympic team jumped, or got shot. The simple principle of "remove the man- remove the problem" was enforced with great enthusiaism. Stalinism existed in the soviet union until the 1950s, when Iosif saw fit to kick the bucket. Maoism, "Kim jong Il-ism" and the rest are slighty altered variations of Uncle Joes good ol' way.
(Trotskyism: never got on, a more realistic view of the idea of communism, did not seek a world revolution and total domination)

Fascism: Born in the 1920s in Italy and southern europe, it was seen as the "3rd option" in the rivalry between democracy and socialism. Benito Mussolini's and Franco's fascism was "national socialism". It recognised nations as units, and their people as masses, who needed a strong goverment and most of all, a strong leader, to keep them safe from the evil and dangerous soviet driven socialism. Technically, fascism is socialism with a different shirt on. Why Fascist groups are often stated as "right wing" is due to the fact that they rose into power as an opposing force to the clearly left wing soivet socialism. In reality, fascism is a centrist-leftist political idea: no personal freedon(lefty) and some economic freedom, such as general stores are allowed to operate(centrist).

Absurdism: The goverment of monkeys forces you to herd giraffes and dragonflies. Every night propaganda videos shout about how good rotten onions are.

This seems like a pretty good explanation, and it still reinforces that Communism or socialism are not the opposite of fascism.

Dear Christ 90% of the posts in this thread is just bitching about other people's points of view.

Lie whatever the hell number it is:Clinton was the first president to be impeached.

Technically the teacher didn't say Clinton was the first, he just didn't mention Johnson to my knowlegde.

Yea I had been under that impression when the whole incident was happening, then later they seemed to imply that Nixon was impeached, but it never got that far with him before he resigned.

Lincoln ...

My ...

You're quoting a politician?

I thought quoting Wikipedia and Yahoo Answers was bad.

At least when it comes out of their mouth they can be held accountable for it. Even if it often contradicts other things they say.