Logic: Why Mass Effect is not Art.

[Woodsey]

"the interactive nature prohibits an exact duplication."

A non-point. People rarely take the same thing from art (artists rarely want them to). They could be looking at the same painting or reading the same book, but that doesn't mean they'll have the same experience with it.

snip

The indoctrination theory makes it rather inspired - incomplete still, but its not stupid or nonsensical, nor does it destroy the main themes or elements of the series.

Spoiler

Required viewing for everyone.

 

[Gamergeek25]

Art is by definition. A form that is created by one or more people in an attempt to portrey a thought and/or emotions. Publishers may see artwork as a product, but the creators of it put thought whioch is shown example mass effect series was a self determination theme, and emotions of sorrow victory, anger, and romance etc. People reads romance books when they want to experiance a romance that they may not be able to achieve. people view artwork to see the a glimpse of an artist mind's view on something. People go to comedy movies to brighten themselves up with laughter. People play Mass Effect to have a space adventure thriller.

 

[JediMB]

~snip~

Wow. That's four posts of solid gold, right there.

We may disagree greatly on the merits of the ME trilogy in general, but besides that I can do nothing but agree with all of what you posted in this thread.

 

[Awexsome]

You may think that. But would you go up to the developers face and tell them that you think that the beliefs they hold dear and motivate many of them to continue to try their hardest is bullshit? Because that's what you're doing here.

 

[him over there]

Mass effect is a beautifully crafted experience that has touched my heart in a number of profoundly different ways and made me reevaluate aspects of my life, so that is how I'll describe it.

Art is a superficial label used by creators to instill a sense of pride in their work and by consumers and fans to elevate a creation's stature without offering any reasons to it's quality. Quite frankly I'm glad mass effect Is an amazing emotional experience and not "art."

 

[Rawne1980]

And this is why there are some of us that just can't get in on the whole "games are art" crap.

Art is subjective.

One persons "art" is anothers excrement.

The more I hear people dismissing the debate with "art is subjective" the more I come to think that they're really just saying, "I can't get my head around this, so fuck it." In which, why did you even enter the conversation in the first place?

Because what one person views as art another person doesn't.

People view games as art and I don't.

There isn't really a debate on the whole "games as art" subject. A lot of the people that don't view games as art never will.

I've been a gamer since 1985, that is a hell of a lot of years. I've been gaming longer than a lot of people on this forum have been sucking in oxygen. I have never, nor will ever, view games as art.

I suppose i'm still stuck in my ways from all these years of games being viewed as "toys" and my opinion is never likely to change.

Reason being I don't need to justify them as art to be able to enjoy them. I don't care if they are taken seriously and i'm looked down upon by people as being "immature" for playing games.

I'm in my bloody 30's, I couldn't give a flaming feth what people think of things I choose to do in my spare time.

As your final comment is wanting a reason for my involvement, when we get married i'll answer to you but until then i'll carry on doing what I like if that's okay with you?

 

[Squidbulb]

How about we all stop being so pretentious and end this silly argument? No-one outside of the gaming community cares what classifies as art. As long as you have fun, who cares what label you put it under.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

Ok, this is just getting daft now... Why did this need a new thread? What makes this OP's point so different from all the others, that this couldn't have just been a reply in one of this threads many, many clones? Also, why is opinion now logic? I am not disagreeing that opinion can be formed using logic, but logic by it's very essence is using fact and sence to solve a problem... opinion is often found where their is a break in logic, or a moral dilema...

Why can't we all now just:

 

[Fishyash]

Video games are as much art as water is wet really.

Art in as broad a sense I can possibly think of is using a skill to express/convey a message, emotion, however you are willing to interpret it.

I'm pretty damn sure that you have to be unnecessarily specific in your definition of art to manage to say that video games don't fit under that. Hell, my definition of art is pretty much legit.

If I let someone come over to me and cut my clothes apart, or get someone else to piss in a glass jar I bought recently, and someone decides to call it art, then it's art. Because they said so.

EDIT: Might as well add that this thread was pointless, but it's nice to see the overwhelming disagreement with the OP's post since I couldn't really see anything valid within it as a whole.

 

[kannibus]

Art, I define as something I enjoy.

I enjoyed Mass Effect.

Therefore, to me, Mass Effect it Art.

Art is a personal thing. What the rest of you lot consider art, I don't necessarily.

 

[Unsilenced]

While definitions of art are subjective, that does not mean that all definitions are equal. I can call art a ham sandwich, and while that statement is not objectively "wrong," it's still pretty stupid.

 

[Grivahri]

Of course it's art. Even more by the fact that fans are analysing the game looking to prove the indoc theory. This is no different from analysing school literature if there is an open ending. Some posts are entire essays that would surely get an A from most highschool/university teachers. Mass effect 3 is also filled with symbolism, for example the kid and the dreams.

 

[Judas_Iscariot]

I think the crux of the argument is that an experience with a video game is determined by the player, not the artist, so you cannot argue that the game is art. Relate it to the board game Axis and Allies. Sure it has a story, and box art, and piece design... but the game isnt art. It may be using certain pieces of art to become immersive, but the game itself is just a game. If you say Mass Effect is art because of its story and design, you must also concede that all forms of interactive recreation are art. Board games, playing cards, hell even some drinking games all incorporate art, but that does not make them an art form.

To be succinct, Video Games aren't art for the same reasons board games aren't art.

 

[Judas_Iscariot]

Soundtrack of great music, music is art. check.

Great details in the backround and scenary, scenary is art. check.

Story had to be written somewhere and thrown together over time, stories are art. check.

Cinematics are like short movies, movies are art. check.


Looks like art to me. check.

Artistic decals on Axis and Allies board, check.

Background story based on actual events with creative twists, check.

Well crafted game pieces, check.

Is Axis and Allies art?



Well designed uniforms, check.
Clearly laid out "story" that game will follow, certain things worth certain points, rules, etc.
Filmed and broadcast to millions of people? check.

Is the game of football art?


If you say videogames are art because they incorporate art, then all games are art because all of them, even if it is an absurdly small amount, incorporate art.




You cannot draw an arbitrary line in the sand and say "Video Games are art but board games are not, athletic games are not, etc"

 

[Judas_Iscariot]

Actually I do consider all of those works of art as well.

The plays of football and the motions and movements of the players in sync can be viewed as art.

So yes, it's art.

Well now you just have an absurdly broad definition of art, so broad as to make it meaningless.

My drive to work is now art, because the motions of traffic and cars in sync can be viewed as art.

Really with a definition like that there is no art because everything is art. You could replace the word "art" with "there" and noone would tell the difference

Video games are there, the music is there, football games are there, board games are there, my drive to work is there etc.

 

[Aerosteam]

Since when was Mass Effect considered 'art' by anyone?

They're good games, I'll give it that, but not art.

Zeel has been banned?

Fuck Yea

 

[Judas_Iscariot]

The "Mass Effect as Art" has been a trendy argument for why they shouldn't have to change the ending. They've been saying artistic vision could be violated.

 

[amanda-lorian]

Actually I do consider all of those works of art as well.

The plays of football and the motions and movements of the players in sync can be viewed as art.

So yes, it's art.

Well now you just have an absurdly broad definition of art, so broad as to make it meaningless.

My drive to work is now art, because the motions of traffic and cars in sync can be viewed as art.

Really with a definition like that there is no art because everything is art. You could replace the word "art" with "there" and noone would tell the difference

Video games are there, the music is there, football games are there, board games are there, my drive to work is there etc.

Unless you think you're Sophocles and believe art is something that must be universally defined by one set guideline, anything can be art. It doesn't matter who created it, who observes it, or who directs it. Art can be anything the observer wishes to see of it.

Me, for example, I hate Picasso. I think that old Spaniards art is total bollocks, but there are some who see his works as masterpieces. Just because I don't, does not make it art.

 

[Judas_Iscariot]

Poor Zeel... Gone but not forgotten. Goodnight, sweet prince. o7

Also, if art is "anything to anyone" there is no art. See my above example, saying "Everything is art" is the exact same as saying "Nothing is art" It is simply babble.

 

[amanda-lorian]

The "Mass Effect as Art" has been a trendy argument for why they shouldn't have to change the ending. They've been saying artistic vision could be violated.

Pfft. Sometimes things like artistic visions and pieces must be scrapped or combined with others to make something new and better. What could be the result is something either super horrible or super great.