LoL and the surrender button.

[skywolfblue]

You're right, you don't just quit a sport because sports generally have audiences with expectations.

Bingo.

Unless the match is being spectated, surrender/forfeit is a part of sports. It's understood that (non-spectated) sports take secondary precedence to work or everyday emergencies.

I'd say computer games should be even more so. So I'm all for the "surrender" option. It's better that then having to make people manually unplug their computers to quit the game. Sure there are people who will abuse it, but the benefits outweigh the downsides.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Thats my though of the surrender button in LoL. What you guys think? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (will be, I played a lot of games but not all).

It's better than the other team rage quitting or hitting disconnect (or straight up pulling the cord on their router to hide the disconnect), at least it puts a legitimate win on your record.

There have been rage quitters ever since Quake 1.0, they are what they are, just take the win and be happy.

 

[Micalas]

Of course you can concede a game if you face someone who will win, they do it all the time in Chess.

Don't forget about Go. In that game, if you don't give up when you're going to lose, it's because you're not good enough to see that you can't win or you're being a dick and wasting time.

 

[Bvenged]

I reserve such vote-casting for instances where the enemy are flogging their victory and generally being unsporting cunts.

I'm a chivalrous person and I ALWAYS aim for a quick victory. Carpe Diem; push for every advantage and seal the deal ASAP.

Now, when I'm playing NS2 or DOTA2 or even some FPS games like CoD or Halo, there's always those games where you're getting royally screwed and your opponents just abuse the situation to make your day fucking miserable. They whore kills while you spend 10 minutes biting your lip through this selfish bullshit. A lot of the time it's not you getting schooled - You don't learn anything from being harassed - and it's not your fault your newbie ass just got matchmade with 6 veteran players; it's just fucking dicks being dicks in multiplayer games.

So yeah, I treasure the "kill-switch vote" in competitive games, but only when used in modesty.

 

[Marik Bentusi]

I played some LoL and currently some DOTA2, so here's my thoughts:
I'm not usually a fan of surrender mechanics, but in MOBAs I am because:

- the inherent snowballing means at some point you simply can't do anything even if your team magically gets their shit together. At some point gold and XP advantage just close virtually any skill gap.
- matches usually take between 30-40 minutes, and even if the game seems doomed from the start, it still takes around 20 minutes until the chars have grinded/leveled enough to push towers effectively.
- leaving is highly discouraged, so even if everyone wants to leave they might see themselves forced to pretend to keep playing
- matches can very well be over before they start if the team composition based on heroes alone is crap

That's all just incredibly frustrating, and yet it'll probably happen every now and then. A surrender option may on a few lucky days prevent your team from tasting that sweet hard-earned victory or incredible comeback, but in the majority of cases I believe it would prevent frustration.



I'm not a fan of surrender options in other multiplayer game types like modern shooters because they only lightly or not at all suffer from these factors:
- snowballing can occasionally happen with silly killstreaks, but usually you'll always be able to doubletap the enemy scoreboard leader in the head to take home a little personal victory.
- matches last around 10-15 minutes if the objective isn't completely before then
- teams are so massive the individual's performance isn't so important they can't just drop in and out whenever they feel like it. Also, mid-match autobalance.
- since the important bit is that everyone can shoot guns, team composition's not really important.

 

[MoltenSilver]

I'm absolutely on the pro-surrender side.
MOBA games don't end by the point it's clear the game is over, like Chess or Go, and in some cases that delay can reach upwards of half an hour; a whole other game's worth of time. And I'll outright say it: the epic feeling of that 1:100 comeback victory is not worth the 20-30 minutes in the 99 other games. As others have said, given the stat-based natures of MOBA's, it is indeed possible to reach an 'impossible to win' point. Add to that teams that will drag out the game just to get more fed and abuse their lead more, wasting your time, and not having the surrender option is pretty much unworkable.

As for when I personally draw the line to surrender? Two team-fights. By then it'll be clear whether or not our late-game champs can catch up to the early-game champ leads, and whether or not we have a better team-fighting composition that can overcome early losses.

 

[Davey Woo]

I only surrender in LoL when it's absolutely certain there's no way of coming back. I definitely don't surrender until we have had a team fight, because one team fight can sway a game so drastically.

 

[Glongpre]

You're right, you don't just quit a sport because sports generally have audiences with expectations. Additionally, sports were not made with the notion of "surrender" in them.
Additionally, sports are purely performance based, LoL is not, there is a statistical element to it. If the other teams damage output is just too high, there is really nothing you can do to stop it. Your whole team getting melted in 2 seconds for the 7th fight in a row basically means the game is over. And it's over, because they have better gear and/or are higher level. If you can't farm without getting ganked, and can't teamfight without losing, the game IS over.

True, true. MOBAs are very competitive though, and that no surrender attitude definitely transfers.

All that said, knowing when to quit IS a good life skill. I'm currently going through entrepreneurial mentoring and failing early and knowing when you're hosed is one of the skills they drill into you. Though, in the real world you have the option of pivoting.

I agree with that^, it was just how you worded it, and I instantly thought of worst case scenario.

The problem is that a lot of people cannot handle being beaten by better players. It is why the community is so bad. A concede function only treats a symptom and not the cause, and I don't think it is worth it. I played LoL and the defeatist attitude spreads like wildfire. When one guys decides to cry, you basically lost the game.

I am all for a unanimous decision but a lot of players just can't handle that responsibility.

 

[Maximum Bert]

[http://photobucket.com/images/door%20to%20nothingness]


I beat my friend with this card once. He damn near flipped the table. The card isn't that great. Its the ultimate "fuck you, you lose."

I dont really play anymore but I loved coming up with crazy combo decks and that card is prime material right there its begging to have a crazy deck built around it but yeah your right its not a great card really it takes way to much to activate but then all I win cards do (and should).

I beat my friend with Goblin Bomb once that was awesome as that card never works the odds are stacked way to high against you.

 

[Jandau]

I'm in the Surrender camp on this one. Sure, it's annoying when some moron goes "Other team got First Blood, surrender at 20!", but a hopeless game is hopeless and there's statistically no way of coming back. I've been playing DotA2 lately and I really miss the surrender button there. Games can snowball even harder than in LoL and take at least some 10-20 mins longer on average. That shit adds up.

Also, to the people saying "But you'll remember that 1 in 100 comeback forever!": No, I will not. I'll kinda feel good about it for the rest of the day, maybe comment about it to a friend over a beer. However, the hours spent in totally one-sided games (be it winning or losing) outweigh the short kinda-nice feeling of an unlikely comeback.

 

[Naeras]

You know that guy who drags out a game for 30 minutes after feeding the other team about 10 kills in as many minutes, and then insists "OMFG DONT SURRENDER NOOBS WE GOT THIS"?

Yeah?
Those guys are what the surrender button got invented for. The fact that it doesn't(didn't?) exist in DotA 2 annoys me like all hell.

That being said, I've been close to surrendering games we've managed to turn around before, but not being able to make out what situations are hopeless and what situations are merely disadvantageous is a result of my relative inexperience with the game. Then again, 90% of the times we've surrendered, it's because the enemy has 10 kills and four towers on us, and proceeds to win every teamfight with ease. Coming back from that position requires the opponent making three or four game-shattering mistakes in a row, and considering they've probably been playing better than us all game and are better geared/leveled than us, hoping for that is usually just a waste of time.

 

[lawrie001]

I agree that the surrender button is a good thing, like anything people use it wrong but if your restrict it because of some people abusing its use because there pissy brats then you would have to take out a lot of mechanics from near 100% of games.

I play DOTA2 (did not like LoL, don't know why but just never got me hooked to it) and there have been so many times I wished for a surrender button.
1. When your basically stuck in defence of your base as you now cannot win a teamfight
2. When its reversed and you wish the other team would surrender because you can win easy and its just agonising waiting for the win.
3. When people on said team go "omg finish it already" then continue to defend, that is the biggest reason why I want a surrender button in dota2 because then those people would have nothing to say.

I understand you shouldn't use it all the time because your pissed off, think it should come with some conditions. Such as needing 20mins to have passed, a huge tower advantage on the opponents side (or huge kill count difference) and if someone has contributed for over 50% of there total kills (this is to discourage feeders and would need high kill count).

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Surrendering in LOL can be a good thing. If your team agrees that the battle can no longer be won, due to antisocial elements (leaver, feeder, people playing their autistic little one player adventure games, two folks pairing up and playing their own two-player experience with little or no contact with the rest of the team, people that don't or do not want to speak your language, etc. etc. etc.) or whatever justifiable reason, surrendering is the best option as anything else is little more than a complete waste of time.

So, I don't agree, I think surrendering has its place.

That does not mean I don't wish cancer to the folks that spam the surrender vote button just because they died once, didn't make enough gold or have seriously messed up scheduling skills. I don't care if you're a 40-year-old manchild or a 12-year-old antisocial shoving in a session of LOL five minutes before you have to leave for school, I'll report the crap out of your sorry ass.

The best way to not have to deal with these things? Only play with folks you know and can rely on, where feasible. Unfortunately not all game modes offer this luxury, and it seems to have gotten severely worse lately. Some nights, I feel trolled at the matchmaking stage already. The latest patch and its removal of the pings doesn't help things, it only serves up shitcream sandwiches a bit later, right when the game starts.

 

[Aeshi]

To be honest, I wish more games had something like LoL's surrender button (World of Tanks in particular comes to mind)

 

[KaosuHamoni]

Well, a certain someone in my LoL team would promote a surrender @ 10 patch...

*anything negative ever happens*

"Right, we're done! Done!"

It's progressed past surrenders in ranked games now though. For some reason, the moment Season 3 started nobody even surrenders anymore.

You can almost always win though. When I won one of my series matches out of Bronze was a pre-rework Karma jungle who was actively trolling who bought 6 Doran's Blades then sold 3 for 3 Wriggles Lanterns because "he needs to see more." Our Jarvan top was 0/9/0, they had a legendary Shaco and Lee Sin within 15 minutes and the only one not feeding was me playing support Nami.

We fucking WON that game. Don't you DARE tell me games are unwinnable when I won that travesty of a game.

Right now, I'm coaching a friend through his pre 30 levels and it's HILARIOUS what people surrender over. Enemy team steals one baron *random guy starts surrender vote*

I've told myself not to play Twisted Fate in those games because christ the pubstomp is of legendary proportions.

Did someone mention Katarina? >.>

Yeah, I surrender if 1. Every lane has lost and I legitimately cannot foresee ANY kind of comeback or 2. I'm so pissed off with my douchebag teammates that it's affecting my play. Otherwise? Lawlno.

 

[Denamic]

Once, we were so stomped that the enemy were being douchebags by our fountain, trying to farm easy kills off us. We were behind by 30+ kills. Then we spawned, and I landed a perfect black hole with a perfect aghanim's wall of replica from our dark seer. It ended up in a complete team wipe for them with no losses on us. So we pushed mid and won.

Had there been a surrender button, we would have lost.

And things like this has happened many, many times.

 

[MasterOfHisOwnDomain]

I hit the surrender button if the game is legitimately hopeless, that is, if all our lanes are lost, no one's doing any damage to the enemy, every team fight is uncoordinated and messy and we're just getting absolutely dominated.

This. There are some games that are beyond any hope of redemption, bereft of any lessons about future play and absolutely no fun at all to continue. In these cases it is wise simply to cut your losses and go and play another. Often they're not even particularly beneficial to your opponents, because when a team breaks down it gives a completely unrealistic sense of someone's skill.