Male victims of sexual violence in games, comics, movies, whatever.

[Carpenter]

well i'll try..

That mafia 2 scene really bothered me. People acted like the prison section was some amazingly mature depiction of the consequences for gang violence, and of course because it's clearly a game made for kids they made the "rape scene" into a half naked boxing match. Yeah don't worry people, in prison they slowly attack you one at a time, they would never just overpower you and force you to do something you don't want to do.

With the "collectable playboys" and downright silly gunfights, it seems the game was made for kids. I bought it because I kept hearing it was this dark an mature depiction of the mafia and what I got was a game that tried to be Saints Row and a driving simulator at the same time.
Defend women's honor with your fists and win their affection, gun down a bunch of cops and then it's all ok as long as you get to a phone booth.

But really, is it so much to ask that you at least depict violent prison rape as an, I don't know, unpleasant and violent thing?
Even if it just fades to black, it's better than that ridiculous boxing match.

yes but if they do, everyone gets butthurt (no pun intended)
and i bet this will be the whole 'rape' thing in the new tomb raider.
lara gets molested and it just leads to ridiculous boxing or a QTE marathon.

plus they said it was dark because of the ending and not this scene. when they drive off with joe to get ice cream for the slumber party.

Who would get "butthurt" over that?

Prison rape isn't really a controversial topic anymore it would seem. Obviously it would make people uncomfortable if they actually showed it, but as I said if they just faded to black and showed the aftermath, I think it would have been far more effective, and maybe made the game just a bit more respectable.

I mean nobody seemed to complain about the constant prison rape references in GTA 4.

 

[Imthatguy]

Rape is not "penetration without consent" and that backwards line of thinking is exactly why it's such an issue. Even if it was, you can easily point out that said woman is forcing him to penetrate her, without consent. Penetration without consent, she is raping him.

I understand you are trying to argue some kind of technicality, but you simply have it wrong here. I won't go into details, but not all rape (of women or men) involves penetration.

I think partially it is a case of different definitions by law, also it's hard to deny that having something forced inside a person's orifices is a bigger deal than other kinds of sexual assault purely on the basis that it can cause a lot of damage. On the emotional side, though, it is much more of a grey area, yes.

You realize a man can have an erection yet not be consenting? I think there s Law & Order:SVU episode about that.

 

[Sean Steele]

In modern visual media rape.... is sadly used as a titalation especially when its used on men think of Vince Vaughn tied up in wedding crashers, men in fiction tend not to get raped they get seduced.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

Remember that Adam Sandler movie that just came out where the joke was a trivialization of female-on-male child molestation playing on the societal trope that men are always ready for sex and consequently never harmed by it? Remember the episode of "Castle" where the running gag was "Who roofies a guy? All you've got to do is ask"? Remember how the German serial-rapist who held men captive in her home and raped them repeatedly on at least three separate occasions was described only as a "nymphomaniac" in the mass media and the whole thing was played for laughs? That's about the state of the portrayal of men being raped in our society.

This is why we need people like this:
http://1in6.org/

I see several people saying that depictions of male rape would be more disturbing to them if they were portrayed in the way rape of women is, rather than played for laughs, but, honestly, isn't this worse? Trivializing an experience like that, like it's just a bit of harmless slapstick, is disgusting and disturbing on a whole other level, in my opinion.

 

[RockThineWorld]

I think there was an episode of that AWESOME sci-fi series Sliders where they ended up in an alternate universe (surprise surprise) where women basically ruled the world and men were kept like cattle purely for selective breeding. While the men arrived with big dopey grins, it eventually led to them being downtrodden and feeling completely dehumanised... however, the series was family-friendly, and this episode was no different; there was no rape shown, or even explicitly mentioned, and there wasn't much of an emotional exploration into it. However, the episode exists, I'm almost certain

 

[gazumped]

Rape is not "penetration without consent" and that backwards line of thinking is exactly why it's such an issue. Even if it was, you can easily point out that said woman is forcing him to penetrate her, without consent. Penetration without consent, she is raping him.

I understand you are trying to argue some kind of technicality, but you simply have it wrong here. I won't go into details, but not all rape (of women or men) involves penetration.

I think partially it is a case of different definitions by law, also it's hard to deny that having something forced inside a person's orifices is a bigger deal than other kinds of sexual assault purely on the basis that it can cause a lot of damage. On the emotional side, though, it is much more of a grey area, yes.

You realize a man can have an erection yet not be consenting? I think there s Law & Order:SVU episode about that.

Yes, a woman can also be drugged into initiating sex and it's called date rape. It's all a very difficult issue to pin down. The penetration definition used by some country's laws, like I mentioned, seems to be to differentiate between sexual assault where a person's body can be caused physical harm through tearing and bruising, which someone is not going to suffer by having their penis put into a vagina. Men (and unfortunately there are still more men than women who get to decide on these laws in the majority of countries) would probably find it easier than women to consider what would be more horrific; a penis forced into their body, or their own penis being forced to entered into someone else's body.

 

[CD-R]

well no prison rape so no me mentioning vito scarletta (i think thats how you spell it)so the only thing i have is a game i cant remember the name of, its about a guy going around in a magical world trying not to get raped, no really.

the guys sperm is apparently magical and will give you magical powers if you have it, so hence every female in the game wants to suck you dry with or without your consent.

i can search it up in case anybody is interested.

I think the game you're thinking of is called Can't Escape the Heroine

http://benzaie.com.over-blog.com/article-gamefap-can-t-escape-the-heroine-56910786.html

Video somewhat relevant to discussion.

 

[Carpenter]

Rape is not "penetration without consent" and that backwards line of thinking is exactly why it's such an issue. Even if it was, you can easily point out that said woman is forcing him to penetrate her, without consent. Penetration without consent, she is raping him.

I understand you are trying to argue some kind of technicality, but you simply have it wrong here. I won't go into details, but not all rape (of women or men) involves penetration.

I think partially it is a case of different definitions by law, also it's hard to deny that having something forced inside a person's orifices is a bigger deal than other kinds of sexual assault purely on the basis that it can cause a lot of damage. On the emotional side, though, it is much more of a grey area, yes.

You realize a man can have an erection yet not be consenting? I think there s Law & Order:SVU episode about that.

Yes, a woman can also be drugged into initiating sex and it's called date rape. It's all a very difficult issue to pin down. The penetration definition used by some country's laws, like I mentioned, seems to be to differentiate between sexual assault where a person's body can be caused physical harm through tearing and bruising, which someone is not going to suffer by having their penis put into a vagina. Men (and unfortunately there are still more men than women who get to decide on these laws in the majority of countries) would probably find it easier than women to consider what would be more horrific; a penis forced into their body, or their own penis being forced to entered into someone else's body.

How is it worse one way and not the other? There are documented cases of men being held captive by women and raped so often they had physical damage to their genitalia. Bleeding, tissue damage,bruising,and scarring. It's not sex we are talking about, it's rape.
That's not even going into the cases of men being drugged or tied up against their will and having things shoved inside of them by a woman.

You keep defining it as if it's just a man being forced to have sex. these woman don't take care to not hurt these people, in fact most take pleasure in the fact that they are causing pain.

So please, take it easy on the "it's not as bad when it happens to a man" bs.

 

[maninahat]

Rape always features an element of power play. The aggressor is empowered, the victim is demeaned. This is especially problematic for male victims, as there is a societal expectation for men to be powerful figures (in terms of courage, strength, protectiveness etc.). As rape subverts that power, there is a much greater sense of humiliation or shame. As comedy loves strong figures being undermined, male rape ends up being a subject of humour.

In Super, the protagonist is raped by Ellen Page's character in one scene. The next scene, the two go off together to fight the villain, the rape never being mentioned again. Whilst the rape scene is clearly unpleasant, it is also played for laughs. It tells you a great deal about how gender aspects work in regards to rape. Had Ellen been raped, we'd all hate the male character - he would be a villain for the rest of the film, and she would be a poor, "broken bird". In other words, society's perception of rape has one hell of a double standard problem

As I pointed out before, I kind of felt like it wasn't "played for laughs" unless the individual found it funny. The fact that he immediately hallucinates his wife's face telling him to go kill a bunch of people kind of showed how his delusional state deals with such trauma.

Still, I am no expert and maybe it was just a throwaway joke, I just think there was a lot of meaning in the way they handled that. You would be surprised by how many rape victims and victims of other traumas will immerse themselves in some sort of fantasy or delusion.

Oh, the scene wasn't understated - it was clearly shown to be traumatic and life affecting, but the emphasis immediately shifted once it was over; he got his orders and he and the rapist go off together. It doesn't get resolved (like in most other films), it just gets forgotten about by the characters.

I personally did find the scene funny, though I'm not sure why. I think the clumsy awkwardness of the scene provides a dark, discomforting humour. But the broader meaning of the scene is unfortunate. That I laughed at a rape scene makes me uncomfortable, and though that is the idea, it inches a little closer to bad taste.

 

[gazumped]

How is it worse one way and not the other? There are documented cases of men being held captive by women and raped so often they had physical damage to their genitalia. Bleeding, tissue damage,bruising,and scarring. It's not sex we are talking about, it's rape.
That's not even going into the cases of men being drugged or tied up against their will and having things shoved inside of them by a woman.

You keep defining it as if it's just a man being forced to have sex. these woman don't take care to not hurt these people, in fact most take pleasure in the fact that they are causing pain.

So please, take it easy on the "it's not as bad when it happens to a man" bs.

Yes, it definitely has to be taken on a case by case basis, documented incidents from real life have gone to far more heinous extremes than woman-on-male rape in the romantic comedies that people were talking about. (And I personally don't think it's not as bad when it happens to a man, especially as male-on-male rape has fewer non-violent/non-damaging options than male-on-female rape.)

 

[Eynimeb]

As an example thats close to home for me, in Ireland there has been major scandal in regards to the Catholic Church. For decades there was abuse (both sexual and mental) towards kids, boys and girls, within Catholic institutions (schools, churches etc.) by men of the cloth. Only in the last 2 decades has ANY of this knowledge reached the public and it has been an avalanche of sick and vile stories ever since. Whats worse is that the Church attempted to cover up these horror stories and the level of complacency towards it went right up to the freaking pope.
So, as a result we had a fairly large generation of abused kids growing up into traumatically repressed adults (you didn't challenge the church 30-40 years ago), creating a horrendous era of dark pasts and skeletons in closets. During this time the monsters that violated a generation walked among us, taught us and lead us through religious fervor and dogma.

This happened in the Netherlands too. Tens of thousands of boys were sexually abused by the church.

It was widely known. Nobody cared. All the talk about how people didn't know until recently - absolute horsecrap. There were even cases where brothers abused and then murdered dozens of boys.

Now, decades later, the victims are demanding investigations and trials. (Nobody stood up for them, because they were male.) The crimes have 'aged' now, meaning that the perpetrators can't be tried anymore. The official investigation (that is very clear about not seeking justice, but purely data) is widely criticized for corruption and under-reporting the number of abuses.

http://www.onderzoekrk.nl/fileadmin/commissiedeetman/data/downloads/eindrapport/20111216/Samenvatting_eindrapport_Engelstalig.pdf

The previous investigation was gender-neutral. The commission is now doing a similar investigation, but involving females only, disregarding any abuse of males, despite the vast majority of the church's victims being boys.

If you've got a sausage between your legs, humanity has no empathy for you. If you're a man, and not in control of at the very least your own fate, you are pathetic in most people's eyes. If you *need* empathy, you are automatically unworthy of it, underage or not.


It has taken decades, perhaps centuries, to convince society that women deserve empathy. It will again take centuries to convince society that men deserve it.

 

[Galaktia]

well tv tropes shows what most people think when its female on male rape ion fiction:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale

I mean in the uk a woman can't actually rape someone as the rape is defined as forced penetration of the vagina.

Incorrect, The Sexual Offences Act 2003, Uk Law, States, Rape is the penetration of A's vagina, Anus, or Mouth, by B's penis, when A is not consenting of the penetraiton and B has no reasonable belief that A is consenting

An then there is a gratuitous sexual assault which is considered equal in many ways to rape and covers the same issues, but detailing penetration with other objects, animate or inanimate.

Although there are aguements that the wording of the SOA 2003 act allows for the positions of A and B to be reversed, so forcing someone to penetrate a hole against their consent counts as rape.

 

[nuba km]

well tv tropes shows what most people think when its female on male rape ion fiction:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale

I mean in the uk a woman can't actually rape someone as the rape is defined as forced penetration of the vagina.

Incorrect, The Sexual Offences Act 2003, Uk Law, States, Rape is the penetration of A's vagina, Anus, or Mouth, by B's penis, when A is not consenting of the penetraiton and B has no reasonable belief that A is consenting

An then there is a gratuitous sexual assault which is considered equal in many ways to rape and covers the same issues, but detailing penetration with other objects, animate or inanimate.

Although there are aguements that the wording of the SOA 2003 act allows for the positions of A and B to be reversed, so forcing someone to penetrate a hole against their consent counts as rape.

I must have just gotten the summarised version but the definition still makes it hard for a woman to be classified as a rapist.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I don't really know of many that involve violence per se, but there was this once movie about this guy who wanted to build this glass church down in like Zimbabwe, I think. I didn't see the whole thing, just the end of it. Anyway there's this one part where this woman effectively rapes the guy while he's unconscious just to get pregnant (and does) so he'd have to marry her (or something like that).

In Pulp Fiction Marsellus Wallace gets raped (before anyone complains, there's a god damn statute of limitations on spoilers). That was guy on guy but it still counts.

No there isn't any such statute. But I've seen Pulp Fiction so you really didn't spoil anything for me.

 

[GameMaNiAC]

Can we please stop talking about these things and focus on the games themselves?

Seriously, this is a gaming forum. Every time I come here I read something about rape in a depressing way. We don't really seem to be discussing games anymore, as far as I can tell.

I realize this is an important subject and that it is something we should discuss about gaming, if it is meant to be taken seriously and as art, but it should not be the only thing we talk about.

You want to talk about games? Then stick to the Games forum. It's there for a reason. I am sick of people coming into the Offtopic forum and complaining that we're talking about something other than games because the current topic upsets them, or they feel like a topic is overdiscussed. What's next, you gonna crawl into the R&P forum and complain people are talking about politics? Complaining that we're talking about something unrelated to games in the Offtopic forum is just...ridiculous.

I meant that I'm tired of seeing this popping up all the time. Only these discussions seem to be popular lately.

Although, I admit I was furious from some personal problems at the time, and I was simply in a bad mood, when everything annoys me. I don't honestly think this is hazardous, it's good that we're talking about this. Though it shouldn't be the only thing we talk about, there are really quite a few threads about the 'r' word.

In any case, I apologize for my rashness.

 

[felbot]

well no prison rape so no me mentioning vito scarletta (i think thats how you spell it)so the only thing i have is a game i cant remember the name of, its about a guy going around in a magical world trying not to get raped, no really.

the guys sperm is apparently magical and will give you magical powers if you have it, so hence every female in the game wants to suck you dry with or without your consent.

i can search it up in case anybody is interested.

I think the game you're thinking of is called Can't Escape the Heroine

http://benzaie.com.over-blog.com/article-gamefap-can-t-escape-the-heroine-56910786.html

Video somewhat relevant to discussion.

yeah thats the one, always knew benzaie reviewed it so finding it wouldn't be to hard, still though thanks for the link.

 

[Wado Rhyu]

might wanna check rome season 2 and sparticus season 1. the first one shows rape of a man by another man as a sign of dominance over him. the second show has a episode about the rape of a homo.

(sorry for hard words and bad spelling but english isnt my native langauge.

 

[mad825]

The Witcher 2. I'm not going to describe the horror.

 

[Ghonzor]

Isn't a lot of the back story for Guts from Berserk that he was sexually abused (basically sold into slavery) and thus has a hard time connecting with people. In fact, I think he shudders away from the touch of most men for a lot of the story. It's a tragic origin for a depressing as hell character and manga.