Man faces jail for handing in a gun.

[Necrofudge]

And the justice system fails yet again.
Corrupt and incompetent crime system: 10,547,269
Proper trial: 0

 

[kitchenjim]

Does seem a lot of you havent read the actual article, he phoned and asked to talk to a senior officer, i doesnt say that he told them about the gun, and as that is a pretty important point im guessing they would have mentioned it if he had. It was found in his garden, so it wasnt exactly likely that some child would climb into his garden just to look in a bin liner.

He definately shouldnt have been arrested and certainly not charged. But he really didnt do himself any favours.

I would much prefer to live in a country where guns are illegal and the authorities take a very hard line than one where anyone can easily get a gun. How you can say that having a gun makes you any safer? You are far more likely to be shot in america than britain.

 

[Snotnarok]

Sounds like he got what he deserved that bastard, who does he think he is? Trying to do the right thing? The right thing is for losers apparently.

But seriously, that's fucked up, the police could have said "please do not touch the firearm sir it's illegal, we will send a car to pick it up" instead of letting him.

 

[Sick boy]

That is screwed up, I would be kicking myself in the head if I was that guy and mind you, it is ridiculously unfair that he gets arrested for that. But I'm pretty sure majority of people have the same thoughts as I do.

 

[kitchenjim]

But seriously, that's fucked up, the police could have said "please do not touch the firearm sir it's illegal, we will send a car to pick it up" instead of letting him.

From reading the article ... I dont think he mentioned the gun in the phone call, so how would the police know to tell him that...

 

[Manbro]

Fuck this shit. The whole point of the Justice system is to see that the right thing gets done, not innocents being forced to put up with this shit. Seriously, the people who prosecuted this man deserve to be thrown in jail in my opinion under the "Against fucking morons" act, first instated into the law system...by me...just then.

 

[Agema]

This is probably way too late as people are fluffed up into extreme outrage but...


The news article is actually severely deficient in its reporting in several ways.

He found the shotgun, and apparently he took it into his house and left it there for a day. Why? He apparently telephoned into the police to say he was coming, but not that he was bringing a weapon. Had at any point he told the police "I found a shotgun in my garden", they'd have told him to leave it the hell alone and a dedicated firearms team would have been there in within an hour. I mean, knowing how guns are viewed in Britain, why the hell would you NOT phone the police immediately and tell them you've found a gun?

I mean, what if that shotgun had been used in a crime? He's potentially screwed up evidence. Secondly, he wandered through the streets with a gun, and that's not great either. As a soldier, he may be trained with firearms. But most people are not, and should not be encouraged by these tales to wander around with guns to take to the police station. What if someone mugged him, or some other accident occurred?

Finally, the guy has been in trouble with the law before, at least one occasion being a prosecution for assault.

* * *

Now, his intentions may have been good, and 5 years in jail is really harsh. However, he's been a fucking idiot, and the situation is far more nuanced and complex than the article ever lets on. Probably because it's too busy playing on popular 'police fascists and outrageous laws' sympathies that sells well.

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

This is messed up.

Linky! [http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/news/Ex-soldier-faces-jail-handing-gun/article-1509082-detail/article.html]

So, thoughts, feelings, arguments? Feel free to spew them out below.

Looks a-ok to me.

1. It doesn't say in the article that he told the police that he was coming to hand in a firearm, just that he needed to see someone in the police station.
2. Given than 1. above is true, you don't just pop out a concealed weapon in a police station without prior warning, that's just idjit.
3. By moving the gun and cartridges from their original location he is tampering with evidence, as well as getting his grubby fingerprints on it and possibly also inadvertently removing any prints that were already on the firearm. The exact location is crucial so he's interfered with that too. There may have been other evidence at the scene that he missed. The bin liner is also evidence, he would have had to tamper with that too to remove the firearm. Way to completely stuff up any forensics investigation.
4. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
5. If he's an ex-soldier that makes it even worse, you would think an ex-soldier would know the firearms laws of his own country. Maybe he thought that because he was an ex-soldier he was above the law, or that the laws of his own country somehow don't apply to him. Unfortunately there are a minority of ex-soldiers who do have exactly this kind of superiority complex: "I served my country, I should be able to do [insert stupid activity here]", that kind of thing.

He is a colossal idiot. Not sure if he'll really get five years but he probably deserves something. He certainly doesn't deserve a shred of admiration or respect for this. By doing what he did, he's very likely prevented someone else, a REAL criminal and a REAL threat to the community, from being apprehended.

If there was any grey area at all the jury would have been deliberating for hours, several days is not uncommon in a case like this. If the jury only took 20 minutes to come to a conclusion, that settles it. The guy is a moron.

I don't even know the laws on guns etc but just out of common sense I wouldn't ever have touched it, let alone rung up the police to say I'm bringing it in myself. None of what you said above would've applied to me because as soon as I found it I would be like "Ok, I've found a gun, don't touch, just go back in and call the police", I'm assuming that's what any normal person with a shred of common sense would do. I agree though, he did kind of set himself up.
The title of this thread is misleading as it is too, the majority who read it have already formed their opinion and are biased against the ruling, even if you were to read the story then it would be clouded with your bias.

I'm not happy with how the law is, or how it's enforced at times but nowadays you have to take into account one important fact which affects alot of things, "people are idiots". He doesn't deserve to go to jail but he was an idiot all the time for not letting the police pick it up.

In my opinion if someone else had come along whilst I was waiting for them to come then fair enough, I wouldn't get involved to be honest. Kid blows his brains out then his parents should've taught him not to handle foreign objects, not my fault nor problem. Another person comes along and discerns it's a firearm too and wants to do the same thing I've done, but actually takes the gun instead then again, not my problem, if anything that's a weight off my shoulders, someone else can get arrested/killed over their own stupidity.

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

As a silly American girl, I'm shocked, disgusted, and a little amused. Maybe it's because my kids brother got to own his first gun when he was thirteen or the fact that my Dad carried one when he had to work in LA during the riots, but I don't understand what the big deal is.

This becomes one of those silly scenarios where the law encourages you to disobey it. He either should have left the gun where it lay, chancing that some cheeky school boys pick it up and blow their brains out, or taken it and simply never told anyone.

There should be far more flexibility in the legal system than that, otherwise people are discouraged from interacting on a friendly basis with their legal system and stop trusting it.

I understand how it may be a little difficult for an American to understand. I'm from Australia where the laws are similar to the UK so it makes perfect sense to me.

If you see an abandoned gun, you don't touch it - you're possibly interfering with evidence, including forensic evidence. Common sense tells you that gun has been abandoned for a reason. That gun might have just been used to kill ten people, or rob a service station, or it might not. Who knows. You ring the police, you follow their instructions. Simple. You don't do what this guy died, which is ring the police, say "I need to see you" and then cart the gun over to them without even telling them that you have a gun until it comes out of your bag, that's MORONIC. Imagine if, instead of a gun, it was a dead body or some other kind of possibly criminal evidence. Do you hand the dead body or the criminal evidence into the police station? No. You ring the police, and you do what they tell you.

It's still borderline retarded.

In any case, better to just hide the gun in your closet than to phone anyone.

That'll work fine unless the gun is inadvertently found by a law-abiding citizen or someone finds out you have it and rings the cops. Then police ballistics analyse the gun and link you to a crime that you didn't committ. Then you get a charge for a crime you had nothing to do with AND an illegal firearm possession charge.

In a country where guns are almost completely illegal, you don't just "abandon a gun" because you just bought a better one or you didn't like the colour of the barrel or whatever. People generally abandon guns because those guns could be linked to crimes that carry hefty penalties. If you pick that gun up and don't contact the authorities, you're at best, a fool.

What if there are zombies?

EDIT: On a more serious note, you couldn't know that without taking a law course. No matter how you look at it there's no justification for penalizing this man; all he tried to do was be a good citizen.

Not true. It's just common sense. If you see something criminal you ring the police. You don't need a law course to understand that.

Also, maybe the guy isn't a good citizen? Maybe he tampered with the evidence on purpose. We just don't know.

I sure as hell didn't get it, and obviously, neither did anyone else, with you being the sole exception.

If he did, they would have found out and put him on trial for it.

Make that me and at least 12 adults in a coutrroom.

A jury took only 20 minutes to convict him. That's incredibly short. If you've ever done jury duty, you will know that 20 minutes is an open-and-shut case. Juries usually take DAYS to decide if there's even the slightest ambiguity or uncertainty, or any room for debate about the crime whatsoever. 20 minutes is a sign of an absolute unanimous decision where everyone agreed that this guy was a tool and needed the book thrown at him.

This is still incredibly retarded.

It is not really retarded. This guy really should have thought this through. It is simply common sense to pick things that are A) Weapon and B)don't belong to you. I felt sympathy earlier but as I think about it, I realize that while the police should have warned him not to pick up the gun, he still should have had the common sense to not touch it in the first place. With evidence you call the authorities and you keep watch over the evidence, to make sure no one tampers with it (intentionally or accidently).

This is not common knowledge, and as is evident, it creates problems. It is the government's responsibility to let citizens know what to do in event of situations like this. But the government won't do that. They'll lock you behind bars because like most of the population you did not have the initiative to find out about it.

There is no justification for putting this man behind bars.

Um. While the government should probably make such things more clear, I think that if a 19-year-old student who has never studied law (me) can figure this out then it probably does not take a genius to figure it out (regardless of the fact that I am technically "gifted"). plus the government does not want everyone behind bars. Who would pay the income and other taxes used to support the penitentiaries? Cats? Squirrels? Seriously. This guy, although he had good intentions, did a stupid thing. I live in the US (where gun laws are not nearly as strict) and I still would not touch a random weapon I found in the street.

Not everyone is you.

Lots of people would. I sure as hell would. If I saw a gun on the ground I would shove it in my pocket, run the hell home and put it in my closet. I would never tell a soul.

Then I'm sorry(not really tbh)but you're stupid and deserve the punishment you would get for doing such a stupid thing. Those other people who similarily you say would do the same thing are just as(if not more so)stupid for doing it. Ignoring the fact he brought the weapon into his house(stupid) and ignoring the fact he may have not even told the police he was bringing in a shoutgun(stupid), the fact he even went through the thought process of touching and moving the weapon(stupid)is actually quite laughable, and stupid. But I guess it must be true what they say, "common sense isn't so common", I think you just about proved that with your post.

 

[Kimjira19]

This is probably way too late as people are fluffed up into extreme outrage but...


The news article is actually severely deficient in its reporting in several ways.

He found the shotgun, and apparently he took it into his house and left it there for a day. Why? He apparently telephoned into the police to say he was coming, but not that he was bringing a weapon. Had at any point he told the police "I found a shotgun in my garden", they'd have told him to leave it the hell alone and a dedicated firearms team would have been there in within an hour. I mean, knowing how guns are viewed in Britain, why the hell would you NOT phone the police immediately and tell them you've found a gun?

I mean, what if that shotgun had been used in a crime? He's potentially screwed up evidence. Secondly, he wandered through the streets with a gun, and that's not great either. As a soldier, he may be trained with firearms. But most people are not, and should not be encouraged by these tales to wander around with guns to take to the police station. What if someone mugged him, or some other accident occurred?

Finally, the guy has been in trouble with the law before, at least one occasion being a prosecution for assault.

* * *

Now, his intentions may have been good, and 5 years in jail is really harsh. However, he's been a fucking idiot, and the situation is far more nuanced and complex than the article ever lets on. Probably because it's too busy playing on popular 'police fascists and outrageous laws' sympathies that sells well.

A-f***ing-men.

 

[Ironic]

I can see why there arresting him, its written down in black and white, ofc, I think he should get off on minimal charges.

The segregation laws were written down in black and white as well, do you also believe the African Americans of the civil rights movement deserved to be arrested?

Just because something is a law does not mean it is just or applies to all situations. This is clearly a case where the man should not face any charges.

I think the problem is that if that gun had been used/matched a crime/ was stolen then he would then be a suspect in all that, purely for having his prints all over it, and he's a soldier, so he should've KNOWN that you can't "possess" a firearm anywhere except on military bases etc. in the UK.

Having said all of the above, this is a load of shit though, the man PHONED AHEAD. If the police didn't inform him to leave it there and that they'd come and collect it, it's BLATENTLY entrapment.

 

[wolfy098]

Britain: No sunlight, no decent food, no justice... My heart goes out to all you people living in that sorrowful place.

If you think we have no good food you are very much mistaken (fish and chips tastes AWESOME)

The rest is right though...

plus we get games later

 

[Ryuk2]

There is a thing called ''law'' and there's a thing called ''common sense''. In this case they don't mix together. What's next? If i find 1000 tons of cocaine in abandoned warehouse and i call police to pick it up, so that neighbor kids wouldn't get high, i would be called a drug dealer for ''possessing'' drugs?
Fuck those people!

 

[Ekonk]

Way to go, British justice system.

I know this is waaay back on the first page, but I felt it warranted a mention:

It is not a justice system, it is a legal system. If it were a justice system this wouldn't have even made it to the court room, but as it is everyone is so flaming scared of making a non-pc comment that this sort of shit makes it to the court room - thus everything follows the letter of the law (even in dumbass cases like this), rather than the spirit.

I was in training to be a judge for a while, purely with the intent that I one day wanted to do this:

*starts laughing* Are you fucking serious?!? Get out of my court room.

Perhaps the fact that I don't know the difference has got something to do with English not being my primary language, but I'll take your word for it.

Also, that last part would have been very appropiate in this case. : /

 

[Danpascooch]

That is bull shit. The police should have told him that if he would bring in the gun he would get thrown in jail and that he needs to tell them where the gun is so they can go and pick it up...

When would the police have told him this? When he showed up with the gun? It was already too late then

The guy was pretty stupid, He should have known he cannot just carry around a shotgun because he found it and is turning it in, Criminals could carry around guns all the time, and if caught say "I found this yesterday and was just turning it in!" That would completely ruin the whole system of gun licenses and permits. what he should have done, was call 911 (UK equivalent)

He did call them to tell them that he was going to bring it in.

Unfortunately by then he had already picked up and brought the gun home and kept it overnight, so it was already too late.

 

[kawligia]

Wow so if you throw a gun in your enemy's car and call the police on him, they won't even give him an opportunity to claim innocence?

I don't think I will ever be able to take it seriously when a Brit comes on this forum or anywhere else and starts telling us in America what we should be doing...not that I ever really did.

 

[kitchenjim]

Wow so if you throw a gun in your enemy's car and call the police on him, they won't even give him an opportunity to claim innocence?

I don't think I will ever be able to take it seriously when a Brit comes on this forum or anywhere else and starts telling us in America what we should be doing...not that I ever really did.

Only you can't go around throwing guns anywhere in britain, as they arent available for any old nutter at the local store. Thats the american way.

 

[tsb247]

Ok... This is ludicrous on so many levels. I am hoping he will be acquitted of the charge(s) he faces. He did the right thing in turning the shotgun in to the police.

However, I would like to point out that if firearms were legal, this never would have happened.

 

[Akai Shizuku]

As a silly American girl, I'm shocked, disgusted, and a little amused. Maybe it's because my kids brother got to own his first gun when he was thirteen or the fact that my Dad carried one when he had to work in LA during the riots, but I don't understand what the big deal is.

This becomes one of those silly scenarios where the law encourages you to disobey it. He either should have left the gun where it lay, chancing that some cheeky school boys pick it up and blow their brains out, or taken it and simply never told anyone.

There should be far more flexibility in the legal system than that, otherwise people are discouraged from interacting on a friendly basis with their legal system and stop trusting it.

I understand how it may be a little difficult for an American to understand. I'm from Australia where the laws are similar to the UK so it makes perfect sense to me.

If you see an abandoned gun, you don't touch it - you're possibly interfering with evidence, including forensic evidence. Common sense tells you that gun has been abandoned for a reason. That gun might have just been used to kill ten people, or rob a service station, or it might not. Who knows. You ring the police, you follow their instructions. Simple. You don't do what this guy died, which is ring the police, say "I need to see you" and then cart the gun over to them without even telling them that you have a gun until it comes out of your bag, that's MORONIC. Imagine if, instead of a gun, it was a dead body or some other kind of possibly criminal evidence. Do you hand the dead body or the criminal evidence into the police station? No. You ring the police, and you do what they tell you.

It's still borderline retarded.

In any case, better to just hide the gun in your closet than to phone anyone.

That'll work fine unless the gun is inadvertently found by a law-abiding citizen or someone finds out you have it and rings the cops. Then police ballistics analyse the gun and link you to a crime that you didn't committ. Then you get a charge for a crime you had nothing to do with AND an illegal firearm possession charge.

In a country where guns are almost completely illegal, you don't just "abandon a gun" because you just bought a better one or you didn't like the colour of the barrel or whatever. People generally abandon guns because those guns could be linked to crimes that carry hefty penalties. If you pick that gun up and don't contact the authorities, you're at best, a fool.

What if there are zombies?

EDIT: On a more serious note, you couldn't know that without taking a law course. No matter how you look at it there's no justification for penalizing this man; all he tried to do was be a good citizen.

Not true. It's just common sense. If you see something criminal you ring the police. You don't need a law course to understand that.

Also, maybe the guy isn't a good citizen? Maybe he tampered with the evidence on purpose. We just don't know.

I sure as hell didn't get it, and obviously, neither did anyone else, with you being the sole exception.

If he did, they would have found out and put him on trial for it.

Make that me and at least 12 adults in a coutrroom.

A jury took only 20 minutes to convict him. That's incredibly short. If you've ever done jury duty, you will know that 20 minutes is an open-and-shut case. Juries usually take DAYS to decide if there's even the slightest ambiguity or uncertainty, or any room for debate about the crime whatsoever. 20 minutes is a sign of an absolute unanimous decision where everyone agreed that this guy was a tool and needed the book thrown at him.

This is still incredibly retarded.

It is not really retarded. This guy really should have thought this through. It is simply common sense to pick things that are A) Weapon and B)don't belong to you. I felt sympathy earlier but as I think about it, I realize that while the police should have warned him not to pick up the gun, he still should have had the common sense to not touch it in the first place. With evidence you call the authorities and you keep watch over the evidence, to make sure no one tampers with it (intentionally or accidently).

This is not common knowledge, and as is evident, it creates problems. It is the government's responsibility to let citizens know what to do in event of situations like this. But the government won't do that. They'll lock you behind bars because like most of the population you did not have the initiative to find out about it.

There is no justification for putting this man behind bars.

Um. While the government should probably make such things more clear, I think that if a 19-year-old student who has never studied law (me) can figure this out then it probably does not take a genius to figure it out (regardless of the fact that I am technically "gifted"). plus the government does not want everyone behind bars. Who would pay the income and other taxes used to support the penitentiaries? Cats? Squirrels? Seriously. This guy, although he had good intentions, did a stupid thing. I live in the US (where gun laws are not nearly as strict) and I still would not touch a random weapon I found in the street.

Not everyone is you.

Lots of people would. I sure as hell would. If I saw a gun on the ground I would shove it in my pocket, run the hell home and put it in my closet. I would never tell a soul.

yeah not everyone is me. but if an impulsive 19 year old with ADHD knows better than to take a dangerous object of the damn street then shouldn't an adult know that too? And WHY for the love of God would you just take that weapon and keep it? that could have been a murder weapon and its discovery by the authorities could have put a murderer behind bars. how could you possibly hinder a criminal investigation like that and still sleep at night?

Because I may have stopped another potential criminal from taking it and killing people.

 

[Krythe]

A Challenger Appears!

http://publicintellectual.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/vprofile.jpg