Man Goes to Jail for Being an Internet Troll

[MrNickster]

If every troll was arrested for being a troll and lung in prison for a good 6 months, the world would truly be a happier place.

 

[Andy Chalk]

I would love the Westoro Baptist Church to be charged as they should be under the law. Just because wrong goes unpunished doesn't make it 'right'.

No, it doesn't. But just because it's not "right" doesn't mean it should be illegal.

And according to Wiki, which is as far as I'm willing to dig on Westboro, it had 71 members is 2007. Not exactly "numbers" in any meaningful sense.

I'm aware that the US and UK are vastly different in terms of their approaches to individual freedoms and the right to free expression. And while I think the US is on completely the wrong track in many ways, in this area I think it's got it right.

 

[JDKJ]

I would love the Westoro Baptist Church to be charged as they should be under the law. Just because wrong goes unpunished doesn't make it 'right'.

No, it doesn't. But just because it's not "right" doesn't mean it should be illegal.

And according to Wiki, which is as far as I'm willing to dig on Westboro, it had 71 members is 2007. Not exactly "numbers" in any meaningful sense.

I'm aware that the US and UK are vastly different in terms of their approaches to individual freedoms and the right to free expression. And while I think the US is on completely the wrong track in many ways, in this area I think it's got it right.

And 70 of those 71 members are related by blood to Westboro's founder, Fred Phelps. There's one non-related member who joined just so he can attend services for the comedic value therein.

 

[Andy Chalk]

Andy, please explain the difference between your advocacy of physical violence to punish speech that you find distasteful and physical restraint by authorities for speech someone else finds distasteful. They seem pretty much equivalent to me.

I put some thought into this, wrote a reply, edited, went back and forth with it a bit, but then it struck me that it really comes down to a very simple concept: Sometimes violence is the answer. It may sound flippant, but there it is.

 

[RMcD94]

That's stupid.

Where the fuck do you draw the line?

"Your religion is bad and you're stupid."
"Your race is bad and you're stupid."
"Your kid is dead and you're stupid."
"Your car is bad and it's stupid."

You get the point.

Fucking people with their stupid ass morals.

 

[Jimmybobjr]

Thats going waaay to far.

 

[buhee]

Oh dear, there are appears to be a moronic overload in this forum. :/
The guy wasn't trolling, he wasn't just on some casual forum joking around about fucking a dead child, he went on a tribute site dedicated to the victim and posted malicious and sickening comments that, once read by the makers of the site (presumably the parents of the dead child) left them traumatised, upset, sickened, etc etc. No-one wants that sort of thing on a website they set up to remember someone.

A few of you need to brush up on the english legal system as well. We go by seperation of powers; that is, the democratically elected goverment make bills, parliament (supposedly seperate) pass those bills by sending it between the House of Commons and the House of lords repeatedly until they both agree (at which point it is signed by the monarchy - that is someone acting on behalf of the queen, not the queen herself- and the law is then published, which is important as it doesn't count otherwise ). The judiciary (also supposedly seperate from parliament and government) then apply those laws in court. The court has two divisions: criminal and civil.

Freedom of Speech has nothing to do with the UK. Americas written constitution has absolutely no hold over our legal system. At all. Please stop shoving it down our throats, especially when you consider than yours is a toddler nation compared to ours.
Even if Freedom of speech DID have a part to play in the British / European legal system (which it doesn't), harrassing someone to that extent (be it to their face, through the post, via email or on a tribute website) will still get you punished. You may be free to say as you please but you are not free to emotionally and mentally harm others. Also if you wish to get on your soapbox and say stuff like that, say it somewhere else, not on a website for the memory of those people. Heck, say it outloud to yourself in your own home where it cant harm anyone if you must.

Also, i find it midly disturbing that all the people who are disgusted at this 'restriction of free speech' are perfectly fine with the guy being physically harmed for what he did. We have laws in place because we are civilised, we dont get our clubs out and go bash people over the head because we dont like them (although in Canada that doesn't seem to be the case...). Plus, if you did do that the 'troll' would still win and then you would be the one getting into trouble.

Admittedly prison isn't ideal. However, an 18 week sentence is more likely going to be a 6-9 week sentence (because for some reason the sentence always gets halved...) but even so, thats tax payers money being spent on this prick, it would have been much better to ban him from the internet. But then you have human rights issues etc etc.

 

[ezeroast]

do you think when the sentencing went down he was like "lol you mad?"

 

[JDKJ]

And now it's time for some audience participation. What do you think is most disturbing: The fact that being a troll is literally against the law in the U.K., the fact that Coss' neighbors felt it necessary to inform the police that there was a troll living down the street or the fact that the police thought the matter was important enough to warrant an interview and then formal charges?

I don't like trolls. They're attention-seeking jerks who will say anything to get a rise out of people. When they get demolished in a forum thread, or banned, or even punched in the mouth, I don't mind at all. But I'm having a hard time believing that someone is going to jail for it. Any society that puts people in prison for being a dick is a society that's in deep trouble indeed.

Conversely, as a European, I have no idea why Americans think that being a total douche or an utter imbecile is a God given right of all mankind, that one should be able to be a jackass to the entire world, and that such behaviour should be constitutionally protected, even. A society is defined by civility; what does that say about a society in which the right of the individual to be an incivil, uncouth arsehole is worth more than society's right not to be bothered by him?

It certainly explains a lot about America, though, doesn't it, such as Glenn Beck and idiocy à la "is evolution 'real'?" being a part of political discourse.

I know that the American definition of liberty is the puerile notion of "I can do whatever I want, and everyone who tells me different is a mean old poopiepants"; but here, we tend to look at things in a slightly more sophisticated fashion. Your freedom ends where the other's begins - and I would definitely say that being an arsehole to the point of causing others actual anguish fits the idea of encroaching on another's liberty. So yeah, fuck that guy. I am happy to live in a country where insults are part of the penal code. Being a dick isn't a high good, or something worth protecting.

I would add to your statement that "a society is defined by civility" the oft-quoted words of Winston Churchill, who said that "you can measure the civilization of a society by the way it treats its prisoners." And to incarcerate someone for 18 weeks as an internet troll isn't, in my opinion, a particularly flattering measure of that society's civilization.

 

[Last Valiance]

Then again, I don't think the U.K> constitution gives free speech and such... Since it's under a monarchy. So it's probably whatever the king or queen decides.

We dont have a constitution. Our rights aren't really written down anywhere.

Still, at least that menas we aren't tied down to massivley outdated old laws *cough2ndammendmentcough*.

In the UK we aren't even citizens. We are subjects.

Pretty worrying when you think about it.

 

[Andy Chalk]

but what is a dick?

Yes, that is a good question, isn't it?

A dick is apparently someone we send to jail when he says something we don't like.

 

[Andy Chalk]

Just out of curiousity, would you guys be cool with sending the dudes who drew cartoons of Mohammed to prison? Because the rage and offense over that shit ran so high that people actually died.

 

[JDKJ]

Just out of curiousity, would you guys be cool with sending the dudes who drew cartoons of Mohammed to prison? Because the rage and offense over that shit ran so high that people actually died.

No, but I would be keen on sending Terry Jones with his Koran-burning bullshit for an extended stay at the local loony bin. More so for the curative than punitive value.

 

[Anton P. Nym]

I think the sentence was too light; I think his "teabags" should've been scorched off with an acetylene torch. Not just because the guy was a heartless troll, being publically cruel to people in suffering just for some laughs and attention, but also because he didn't say anything a 13-year-old with a Vent/XBL headset hasn't said to me. Stupid cruelty should not be allowed to propagate itself.

(Then again, I have dealt with his ilk before and not enjoyed the experience. This could be colouring my opinion somewhat.)

-- Steve

 

[JDKJ]

I think the sentence was too light; I think his "teabags" should've been scorched off with an acetylene torch. Not just because the guy was a heartless troll, being publically cruel to people in suffering just for some laughs and attention, but also because he didn't say anything a 13-year-old with a Vent/XBL headset hasn't said to me. Stupid cruelty should not be allowed to propagate itself.

(Then again, I have dealt with his ilk before and not enjoyed the experience. This could be colouring my opinion somewhat.)

-- Steve

Why stop there? Why not also have him drawn and quartered in the town square (if for no other reason than I've always wanted to witness first-hand someone being drawn and quartered)?

 

[Pilkingtube]

but what is a dick?

Yes, that is a good question, isn't it?

A dick is apparently someone we send to jail when he says something we don't like.

Andy, it's horrible seeing you being so closed minded to British customs, it really is. The concept is that your freedom ends where another's begins. If you draw a picture of Mohammed, then run into your local mosque and show it to everybody, yes, you are defiling the religion of another. However blastphemy against Islam isn't illegal in the UK, just the Anglican church.

What this man did was not 'freedom of speech', it was malicious and deliberate harrassment. One person's freedom does not override that of another. He was causing emotional harm to another person, which can never be protected in the UK.

 

[fletch_talon]

Getting a shot in the chops for being a raging asshole is a consequence for being an asshole... I'm just saying that if it does happen, and you were clearly being an asshole, then maybe you were asking for it and maybe you shouldn't be surprised that it happened.

That's good and all, except then the person giving the "shot in the chops" gets sued, and a criminal record for assault.
Meanwhile the asshole gets away with a sore face and potentially a nice payout.

Are you telling me - and think really hard about what you're advocating here - that you're okay with clogging up the courts and sending people to jail for being an asshole on the internet?

You're simply switching one problem for another, unless you make it legal to assault someone who offends you (and even then you'd have to go through court to determine whether an attack was warranted).

I'd rather see the asshole rot in jail for a while. Not every asshole, but there are some people who need to learn that there are consequences to their actions. A lesson they'll never learn so long as people defend their right to make people's lives miserable.
Not to mention the average person has no way of tracking down and assaulting assholes who "troll them" (as you so affectionately call it) anonymously over the internet.