Man killed by police after angry CoD gamer SWATs player for lost $1.50 wager match

Gauche

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The 911 SWAT call was released

https://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article192244734.html

The bodycam of the shooting was released as well - violent content warning
 

Ironman126

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Canadamus Prime said:
Ok 3 questions:
I believe I can answer these questions.

1. What kind of asshole do you have to be to stick the SWAT team on someone over $1.50?
A Call of Duty player.

2. What kind of incompetent police force goes in guns blazing based on, what I presume, is a vague anonymous tip?
An American police force. 'Murica! Fuck yeah!

But seriously, a lot of our cops have a shoot first, ask questions never modus operandi. Once in a while, questions will be asked later. This kind of shit is far from confidence inspiring.

3. What the hell did that asshole tell the tip line (or whatever) to get the police to charge out to that address?
I believe it was something about an armed hostage situation.

This is why both the police and gamers don't have a good rep. people.
I think it's mostly why cops get a bad rep. Gamers seem more likely to just call you names and act like shits. Not that this incident will help.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

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Thaluikhain said:
Addendum_Forthcoming said:
When someone says 'swatting' I assume that meansactually trained armed response teams in general?
Depends on the police force, some of them seem to want to be one of the cool police forces so they get a bunch of guys some black gear and call them SWAT.
Quizzically these are the same type of people that Trump wants to give AFVs to, right?
 

Arnoxthe1

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undeadsuitor said:
Welcome to America. Where police officers aren't a public agency but more of a force of nature that can kill anyone they want as long as they vaguely place their hands anywhere.

Cops are cowards. End of discussion.
Yeahhhhh, how about we just don't make blanket statements like that, OK?

In fact, why don't we all just chill the hell out about the cops. I highly doubt the offending officer just got up one day and said, "You know what? I'm gonna shoot an innocent person today."

SWAT teams also simply don't have much, if any time to prepare their ops. They need to do their stuff and do it fast.
 

RedRockRun

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I'm amazed that this doesn't happened all the time. The next thing that we'll see is someone get killed live on Twitch. It's not a question of 'if' at this point.
 

Trunkage

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Canadamus Prime said:
Ok 3 questions:
1. What kind of asshole do you have to be to stick the SWAT team on someone over $1.50?
2. What kind of incompetent police force goes in guns blazing based on, what I presume, is a vague anonymous tip?
3. What the hell did that asshole tell the tip line (or whatever) to get the police to charge out to that address?

This is why both the police and gamers don't have a good rep. people.
I have but one answer. 'Merica
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Ezekiel said:
Hawk of Battle said:
How... does this happen? Like, the guy doing the phone call was claiming HE was the one with the gun, according to that video in the second link, and presumably gave the wrong address, that he got from the guy he was pissed off at. But he was calling from a completely different address right? Do they not check where the phone call is coming from and see something doesn't add up? Shouldn't they have gone to HIS address?

So then some poor sod opens his door, gets shouted at by a bunch of cops leveling guns at him, is rightly confused and probably scared and then gets shot for doing basically nothing?

Just... what?! The level of incompetence and mishandling of this whole situation is baffling. Everyone involved needs to be investigated and probably receive jail time, the two COD morons, the officers, the whole lot. Fucking insane.
Yeah. What's upsetting to me is that everyone here and on that news link is blaming the pranksters but no one is talking about the incompetence and aggression of the police. They don't even try to confirm the information? Cops in America are terrible.
What I don't understand is if the cops are going to fire at a suspect? Why don't they fire at a non lethal area?

Like why can't this cop just shoot the suspect in the leg to cripple him so that they can at least arrest him while he's still alive. I thought the whole point of law enforcement in our modern day is catch the criminal alive first and then judge them.

But of course it would be better if they don't fire at all.
 
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Don't really want to defend the police, but it isn't as if they can walk up to the front door and ask if there's a hostage situation going on. They can't handle the situation with kiddy gloves just because of an anonymous tip. As far as they know, lives are at risk. One man has already been shot and a woman is being held captive in a closet.

Samtemdo8 said:
What I don't understand is if the cops are going to fire at a suspect? Why don't they fire at a non lethal area?

Like why can't this cop just shoot the suspect in the leg to cripple him so that they can at least arrest him while he's still alive. I thougth the whole point of law enforcement in our modern day is catch the criminal alive first and then judge them.

But of course it would be better if they don't fire at all.
Because it's unrealistic. No matter how amazing the officers aim is at the range, the stress and adrenaline of a real situation. The Officer can miss if they aim for the arms or legs, or the bullet does hit the target, passes through, and hits an officer or bystander on the other side. The wounded suspect also still poses a threat, because they can still fire on the officers or any bystanders still in the area. Unfortunately, without some insane luck, no officer can live up to the standards ingrained in us by Hollywood.
 

Thaluikhain

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Samtemdo8 said:
What I don't understand is if the cops are going to fire at a suspect? Why don't they fire at a non lethal area?

Like why can't this cop just shoot the suspect in the leg to cripple him so that they can at least arrest him while he's still alive. I thought the whole point of law enforcement in our modern day is catch the criminal alive first and then judge them.

But of course it would be better if they don't fire at all.
Doesn't work...not just for US police, but for armed police the world over. You are only supposed to use your firearm if there is immediate threat of death going on, in which case you need to end the threat right now, so you fire body of mass until the target goes down.

If you've got time to try something fancy, you don't need to use your gun at all.

Addendum_Forthcoming said:
Thaluikhain said:
Addendum_Forthcoming said:
When someone says 'swatting' I assume that meansactually trained armed response teams in general?
Depends on the police force, some of them seem to want to be one of the cool police forces so they get a bunch of guys some black gear and call them SWAT.
Quizzically these are the same type of people that Trump wants to give AFVs to, right?
Eh, they were getting pre-loved AFVs beforehand, a useful coincidence of the military having ones they didn't want to hang onto, and police wanting to look cool.

But yeah, US police are often into very enthusiastic military cosplay. It's not healthy, but appeals to a certain sort of "tough on crime" type.
 

Pseudonym

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Yeah, we knew this was coming. If you keep getting the police to charge people's houses on the assumption that something terrible is going on, then eventually somebody will die. As for what can be done, I think the following two things would be a good start:

1. Perpetrators of swatting should, as a general rule, be charged with attempted manslaugter and be punished appropriately. Given the dangers swatting poses I think prison sentences should be normal.
2. Police should be better trained to de-escalate situations. How precisely this is to be done, I don't know. Maybe look at places where the police kills few people and try to emulate whatever it is they are doing.
 

Thaluikhain

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Pseudonym said:
1. Perpetrators of swatting should, as a general rule, be charged with attempted manslaugter and be punished appropriately. Given the dangers swatting poses I think prison sentences should be normal.
Is attempted manslaughter a thing? Surely it's either manslaughter if someone dies, or attempted murder if not, but you were trying? Might be time to devise a new law for this, though.

Pseudonym said:
2. Police should be better trained to de-escalate situations. How precisely this is to be done, I don't know. Maybe look at places where the police kills few people and try to emulate whatever it is they are doing.
Yes...though a good swatting would involve telling the police that things have gone out of control. Though, police are still supposed to be able to differentiate between victim and criminal even when criminals are shooting people for real.

De-escalation in general, though, yeah. Mind you, this used to be a thing they at least tried for, there are loads of official training stuff telling officers to do this, they just don't seem to be followed anymore.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Ironman126 said:
Canadamus Prime said:
Ok 3 questions:
I believe I can answer these questions.

1. What kind of asshole do you have to be to stick the SWAT team on someone over $1.50?
A Call of Duty player.
Thanks that really clears things up. ...actually it kinda does.

2. What kind of incompetent police force goes in guns blazing based on, what I presume, is a vague anonymous tip?
An American police force. 'Murica! Fuck yeah!

But seriously, a lot of our cops have a shoot first, ask questions never modus operandi. Once in a while, questions will be asked later. This kind of shit is far from confidence inspiring.
That's really stupid esp. in a situation like this. Again it's no wonder they have a bad rep.

This is why both the police and gamers don't have a good rep. people.
I think it's mostly why cops get a bad rep. Gamers seem more likely to just call you names and act like shits. Not that this incident will help.
[/quote]
Gamers still aren't exactly looked upon in a positive light in the media if I'm not mistaken. I suppose attention has shifted to other things now now though.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

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Thaluikhain said:
Eh, they were getting pre-loved AFVs beforehand, a useful coincidence of the military having ones they didn't want to hang onto, and police wanting to look cool.

But yeah, US police are often into very enthusiastic military cosplay. It's not healthy, but appeals to a certain sort of "tough on crime" type.
At this rate of evolution of force, the only consolation is by 2030 I fully expect police recruitment materials to be like this ...


That consolation quickly replaced with that growing sense of dread that reality is murdering satire.
 

EscapistAccount

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Samtemdo8 said:
What I don't understand is if the cops are going to fire at a suspect? Why don't they fire at a non lethal area?

Like why can't this cop just shoot the suspect in the leg to cripple him so that they can at least arrest him while he's still alive. I thought the whole point of law enforcement in our modern day is catch the criminal alive first and then judge them.

But of course it would be better if they don't fire at all.
This is a massively common misconception that arises from, ironically, gamers who don't actually know how guns and the human body work in real life.

Shooting someone in the leg is only a harmless prank in computer games and films, in real life you have a major fucking artery in your leg that will kill you if it's cut. Same with your shoulder and arm. The 'safest' places to get shot are your hands, feet, arse cheeks and even those can and do kill. There is no safe place to shoot someone, if you shoot someone you are by default aiming to kill.
 

Arnoxthe1

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undeadsuitor said:
I'll stop making blanket statements when it stops being true. And I'll lay off cops when they stop circling the wagons every time one makes a mistake.

We've reached a point in America where criticising the police is tantamount to spitting on the flag and that's not okay.
I don't see that. And in any case, this just happened, so give the police room to breathe already. Obviously the SWAT team member made a grave mistake but the thing is, you weren't there. You have no idea as to what it looked like or didn't look like.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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EscapistAccount said:
Samtemdo8 said:
What I don't understand is if the cops are going to fire at a suspect? Why don't they fire at a non lethal area?

Like why can't this cop just shoot the suspect in the leg to cripple him so that they can at least arrest him while he's still alive. I thought the whole point of law enforcement in our modern day is catch the criminal alive first and then judge them.

But of course it would be better if they don't fire at all.
This is a massively common misconception that arises from, ironically, gamers who don't actually know how guns and the human body work in real life.

Shooting someone in the leg is only a harmless prank in computer games and films, in real life you have a major fucking artery in your leg that will kill you if it's cut. Same with your shoulder and arm. The 'safest' places to get shot are your hands, feet, arse cheeks and even those can and do kill. There is no safe place to shoot someone, if you shoot someone you are by default aiming to kill.
Technically, getting shot in an arm or a leg is statistically less likely to kill you then getting shot in the torso or head. That part isn't wrong, even if you can get unlucky and have your femoral artery severed by the bullet or you can get lucky and have a bullet strike your brain without causing major noticeable damage to your cognitive functions.

But as you point out, when a police officer draws their sidearm with an intent to fire they are doing so because there's imminent and lethal danger to themselves, another cop or a civilian. At that point the well-being of the perpetrator goes out the window because their actions might result in the death of someone else unless the police officer uses lethal force. There's also another important aspect to consider: It is easier to hit the torso of a person then it is to hit moving limbs. And since a bullet always will end up somewhere you want to maximize the chances that it hits the target, because a miss means the bullet continues past the target and might potentially hurt an innocent person in the background. As such, aiming for the torso carries many benefits for the police officer, the chance of stopping the perpetrator from hurting someone else increases and the risk of causing collateral damage from stray rounds is minimized.
 

Baffle

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Gethsemani said:
when a police officer draws their sidearm with an intent to fire they are doing so because there's imminent and lethal danger to themselves, another cop or a civilian.
I think part of the concern is that this no longer appears to be true. It seems the firearm is drawn because, well, it's there, it seems a shame not to use it.
 

Canadamus Prime

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undeadsuitor said:
We've reached a point in America where criticising the police is tantamount to spitting on the flag and that's not okay. Cops aren't veterans no matter how much they want to pretend to be soldiers on the streets.
Really? I got the impression that criticizing the police had become tantamount to saluting the flag down there.