Man vs Nature

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Gooble

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This may so like an odd question which you may think has a very obvious answer, but me and my friend we discussing this the other day and I came to the personal conclusion that humans are at best an anomaly of nature. And this next bit is going to sound very much like the Matrix.

Every other animal on the planet lives in equilibrium with its habitat. Numbers are almost constantly controlled by predators higher up the food chain, and if there is any sudden population growth or decline it is quickly curbed by an insufficient food supply, thus killing off the necessary number of the problematic species, returning things to normal. Climate change also plays a major factor in determining the long term survival prospects of a species, and the species which adapt the best to the new conditions will continue their existence.

However, humans do the exact opposite. I am only going to focus on the western world here, because Africa/the subcontinent currently lacks the means to do the following, despite them having the potential.

The Western world appears to have absolutely no balance with nature. If food supplies get dangerously low to feed their populace, we have both huge amounts of food reserves, and if needs be we will turn to GM crops to ensure our survival. We cause widespread damage to the environment, destroying huge areas of forest, dumping toxic waste in landfills and bodies of water, and spewing out greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere; even if you don't believe in global warming, you cannot deny that because of us the planet is in a very unhealthy state. And if there is ever any really serious change in global temperatures, we can survive those too, be it through a large rise or a large fall. I'm sure we could live on the water, in the air, or in space if we really wanted to.

Therefore I have come to the conclusion that the Wachowski brothers have come up with one of the most profound truths about our species: humans are not actually mammals, they are a virus. Or at least a mammilian virus :D

Edit: Edited title upon suggestion by someone who crapped all over the previous one ('Are humans natural?'), along with several others...I shall eat your souls.
 

Jedoro

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Jun 28, 2009
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I think it's possible for us to get along with nature, but now that we have all our technology, we never will again without some kind of apocalypse.
 

NeedAUserName

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Two things, first is off topic; does someone have the same avatar as you (@OP)? Just because if there isn't you've made loads of threads today... (not that thats a bad thing, just an observation).

Two (and OT), humans are natural, but aspects of our life aren't.
 

Darth Pope

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MaxTheReaper said:
I thought so as well, but I think someone else pointed out that The Matrix just had dialog that sounded good, but didn't actually mean anything when you gave it some thought.

I am entirely too tired to offer up an opinion on whether they were correct or not.
Gonna have to go with this. I don't want to use my brain now. It's tired.
 

RavingPenguin

Engaged to PaintyFace
Jan 20, 2009
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Im going to take a stance with my christian beleifs here. According to my religion God gave man a mandate to be stewards of the earth (Genesis 1:28) otherwise known as the dominion mandate. In other words God told mand to go and care for the world, this does not mean submitting to it, but rather to nurture it and shape it to yeild the maximum output with minimum impact.

Thats the way I explain human behavior and the shaping of our society within nature.
 

Gooble

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needausername said:
Two things, first is off topic; does someone have the same avatar as you (@OP)? Just because if there isn't you've made loads of threads today... (not that thats a bad thing, just an observation).

Two (and OT), humans are natural, but aspects of our life aren't.
Yeah, it's all me. When I get tired I actually start thinking about proper serious things, and I'm too tired to wonder whether I should post my thoughts or not. I'm quite impressed with my topics tonight, normally they're totally crap and don't create any discussion, and I don't often post my own topics due to my previous failures, unless I come up with something really good.
 

Gooble

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Internet Kraken said:
Gooble said:
humans are not actually mammals, they are a virus.
No. Really, what were you thinking when you decided to make this topic?
Dude, it's 2:18am where I am at the moment, I'm just projecting my immediate thoughts. I know we aren't actually a virus, but we seem to sure as hell act like them. If we all lived self-sufficient lives then I wouldn't even be contemplating whether we are a virus or not!
 

Orca87

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Jul 23, 2009
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*looks are bar code birthmark* No.

OT: You're not looking at scale, the only reason the environment is in 'equilibrium' is because of the time line, if the environment is destabilised, whoever could gain most, gains most, for example, the introduction of wildlife in other habitats, rodents and pest and things, go nuts, mass multiplying, and the whole malarkey, WAY out of balance, often destroying the environment, it's a basic evolutionary trait. The only reason other animals don't do that, is because they are already doing that to the extent possible. what is stopping them, is other animals trying to best them for survival. Humans are natural, we are just different. We still have instincts, we have to compete with our hormones, we are still driven by our genes. We are no different from any other life form in lots of ways, but different enough to survive, well, for now.
 

OneHP

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Jan 31, 2008
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Yes we are entirely natural, our interactions just have farther reaching effects both in space and time.
 

Motti

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Jan 26, 2009
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Gooble said:
First post
We're nothing but natural. Now define natural.
Animals can also screw the environment up as well. Pigs cause erosion of rivers and streams. Deer and rabbits in Australia are destroying the native species, a well as countless others. Man introduced them, yes, but they caused the damage and fucked like well . . . rabbits.
Even if man is a virus on the earth, aren't viruses natural as well?
The truth is that man is as much a part of nature as any other animal. Why? Because we're animals too. If there is an equilibrium to nature, we're part of it whether we like it or not.
 

Sightless Wisdom

Resident Cynic
Jul 24, 2009
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I think it's because humans think. We have too much intelligence for our own good. Or perhaps to little. It's a confusing thought but if we didn't have brains large enough to have emotions and desires then I don't think we would cause so many problems. For example...rabbits. You heard me I said rabbits, they don't have large brains, all they have to think about it eating to survive and then reproducing then raising the baby then eating some more. Surival, and reproduction are the basic elements of any animal. As far as I know(correct me if you have evidence) humans are the only ones who desire more than survival and prolonging of the life of their species. We want power and we want to advance, to be be "better".

So in that way you could say we have to much intelligence for our own good. But maybe it's too little, maybe if we had more we would have the foresight to realize we are causing serious problems in the world.
 

Internet Kraken

Animalia Mollusca Cephalopada
Mar 18, 2009
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Gooble said:
Internet Kraken said:
Gooble said:
humans are not actually mammals, they are a virus.
No. Really, what were you thinking when you decided to make this topic?
Dude, it's 2:18am where I am at the moment, I'm just projecting my immediate thoughts. I know we aren't actually a virus, but we seem to sure as hell act like them. If we all lived self-sufficient lives then I wouldn't even be contemplating whether we are a virus or not!
No, humans do not act like a virus. The only reason you would ever say that was if your thought process was "humans are bad, and viruses are bad, so humans=virus!!!!!".
 

LordCraigus

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May 21, 2008
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Motti said:
Even if man is a virus on the earth, aren't viruses natural as well?
The truth is that man is as much a part of nature as any other animal. Why? Because we're animals too. If there is an equilibrium to nature, we're part of it whether we like it or not.
I was going to elaborate but this man pretty much says what I was thinking, nice one.
 

BehattedWanderer

Fell off the Alligator.
Jun 24, 2009
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I'd say we're the natural evolution of strongest species at the moment. Had the dinosaurs not had brains the size of peanuts, we'd all be reptilian instead of mammalian. What's really unnatural is those bugs that look like sticks or thorns. How the hell do you evolve and adapt to your carapace become a sharp point? That's not exactly voluntary, or something that occurs over a few hundred years. So what the hell?
 

Internet Kraken

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Mar 18, 2009
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BehattedWanderer said:
I'd say we're the natural evolution of strongest species at the moment. Had the dinosaurs not had brains the size of peanuts, we'd all be reptilian instead of mammalian. What's really unnatural is those bugs that look like sticks or thorns. How the hell do you evolve and adapt to your carapace become a sharp point? That's not exactly voluntary, or something that occurs over a few hundred years. So what the hell?
Well clearly the bugs with the sharpest and pointiest carapaces are the ones that survived to breed. Because when a predator sees that they think "fuck, I don't want to eat something sharp and pointy".
 

The3rdEye

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Mar 19, 2009
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Yes we're natural. Our outlook on things and understanding of our actions consequences just tend to be far too short term for our own good.

Off topic and on a matter of personal opinion: The Matrix, while reasonably well written, should -not- be used as a direct point of reference in philosophical debate or discussion.
 

(TheMan)

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Jul 19, 2009
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Humans are natural. Even if we were a virus we would still be natural. Even a virus has a balance with nature. Humans are just mammals that have, through advancement of technology and medicine, been able to overpopulate their environment. People who shouldn't have been able to survive due to disease, injury or birth defect live now. Population was controlled by food until we were able to create farms and domesticate animals. As the population grew and spread over more of the planet it was less likely for one plague to kill off all humans because they were spread so far and not connected as well. (Not as compared to today where an infected person can be anywhere in the world within a day)
 

(TheMan)

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The3rdEye said:
Yes we're natural. Our outlook on things and understanding of our actions consequences just tend to be far too short term for our own good.

Off topic and on a matter of personal opinion: The Matrix, while reasonably well written, should -not- be used as a direct point of reference in philosophical debate or discussion.
and this too.

Sometimes I think people just reference things like this because they are too lazy to think for themselves.